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    Rugby surrendered its social benefit

    http://villagemagazine.ie/index.php/...ocial-benefit/


    Interesting article, happening across every club in Ireland as the Senior level shrinks.

    "The purpose of the GAA is markedly different from the purpose of the IRFU. The former recognises the important social role it plays throughout the island of Ireland in seeking to increase participation, youth and adult, in Gaelic games. The IRFU’s purpose has become too closely associated with the achievements of the national and provincial teams. Its primary purpose is now professional as opposed to social".

    #2
    Nonsense! The GAA are suffering in exactly the same way with players aged from 18 to 30 years. It has more to do with how people live their lives in general now rather than how sport has evolved.

    Comment


      #3
      As evanderch says GAA suffers as much as rugby in this area. Rugby doesn't help itself in terms of schools players not playing with clubs for several years.
      The options after age 12 only become much narrower in a few areas where there is a lot of schools and clubs don't try play/cant play without those who are attending rugby schools.
      Those who attend rugby playing schools need to be able to play with clubs throughout their 5/6 years as a secondary student. This should be at the minimum a cup competition at 15s or even 7s series/10s series where they can play with a club/the club they started playing minis in.

      Comment


        #4
        Nonsense, substitute county team for provincial team and the article could read word for word as the GAA.

        "......it has not become obsessed with a small number of teams that may achieve sporting excellence." Ah the GAA has become ALL about a small number of teams that may achieve sporting excellence they're called intercounty teams which account for approx 2% of the playing population.

        Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
        "Everything good about Ireland can be found in County Cork"....Lonely Planet Guide 2012

        Comment


          #5
          That article, written last August, was part of Jimbo's Dáil election campaign.

          An an ex-Gonzaga boy, ex Leinster rugbyman, Senior Counsel and brother of the fertile Murriam, he knew that he had all the posh D4 votes wrapped up already, so this was an attempt to pander to the GAA/settled culchie element of his constituency. And it worked!
          New infraction avoidance policy: a post may be described as imbecilic, but its author should never be described as an imbecile.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Old Dog View Post
            That article, written last August, was part of Jimbo's Dáil election campaign.

            An an ex-Gonzaga boy, ex Leinster rugbyman, Senior Counsel and brother of the fertile Murriam, he knew that he had all the posh D4 votes wrapped up already, so this was an attempt to pander to the GAA/settled culchie element of his constituency. And it worked!
            He's also credited with the introduction of 8 man rugby to the east coast. Not even John Lennon who was outside him could get a look-in.
            Last edited by ustix; 31st-May-2016, 15:18.
            Gwan Joe!!

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by ustix View Post
              He's also credited with the introduction of 8 man rugby to the east coast. Not even John Lennon who was outside him could get a look-in.
              In fairness - he's a bloody big lump!

              It is, however, a nonsense comparison with the GAA, as noted. FWIW, my experience of a town club is Crosshaven, and the rugby club is the heart and soul of the village while producing a notable crop of players for professional ranks (and now refereeing, too). My team-mates kids will shortly be starting mini-rugby, and, please God, in about twenty years time, there'll be a new generation of Barrys, Buckleys et al all kicking seven bells out of each other on the training pitch before kicking seven bells out of the oppo.

              The real key, in GAA and in rugby is: how is your club run? Good ones will do well, complacent ones will suffer.
              Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Stanley View Post
                http://villagemagazine.ie/index.php/...ocial-benefit/


                Interesting article, happening across every club in Ireland as the Senior level shrinks.

                "The purpose of the GAA is markedly different from the purpose of the IRFU. The former recognises the important social role it plays throughout the island of Ireland in seeking to increase participation, youth and adult, in Gaelic games. The IRFU’s purpose has become too closely associated with the achievements of the national and provincial teams. Its primary purpose is now professional as opposed to social".
                Both organisations are abandoning the club players for the elite. The health of a county in football or hurling is judged not by how many kids and adults play every weekend but by whether the top 15 in each county are doing well or not. Rugby has long gone down that round. People will think Irish rugby is doing well based on whether the Irish resident XV are doing well, not based on whether the clubs can field seconds, thirds, fourth, fifths, etc.

                There needs to be a fundamental evaluation of Irish sport, including rugby, and the question is what is success. Is it it elite level performance or is it participation. Both can complement each other, but as always one goal needs primacy, and in the Irish rugby case it is elite level above all else.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Stanley View Post
                  http://villagemagazine.ie/index.php/...ocial-benefit/


                  Interesting article, happening across every club in Ireland as the Senior level shrinks.

                  "The purpose of the GAA is markedly different from the purpose of the IRFU. The former recognises the important social role it plays throughout the island of Ireland in seeking to increase participation, youth and adult, in Gaelic games. The IRFU’s purpose has become too closely associated with the achievements of the national and provincial teams. Its primary purpose is now professional as opposed to social".
                  How is the youth game structure in the clubs?
                  I have been away for many years so have no idea if clubs are attracting the kids,
                  saw this on the Highlanders website, the kids sturucure in NZ is so organised and they recognise the value of getting kids in early and giving them treats like this.
                  wish Munster rugby could be so progressive
                  http://thehighlanders.co.nz/our-news/latest-news
                  Benders Shout - PYO Voucher


                  Print me out and bring me to Forsyth Barr Stadium, Gate C to get free entry to Highlanders v Sharks - remember you must be wearing your jnr rugby club uniform too!

                  Thanks to Tux we have 500 free balls to give to the first 500 kids in their club uniform - gates open at 6.30pm.


                  Parents please go to http://www.ticketdirect.co.nz/event/...nders-v-sharks and use the PROMO CODE: BENDERSSHOUT to access $20.00 adult tickets

                  psychoanalysis is wasted on the Irish; Sigmund Freud

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by treatycity1 View Post
                    How is the youth game structure in the clubs?
                    I have been away for many years so have no idea if clubs are attracting the kids,
                    saw this on the Highlanders website, the kids sturucure in NZ is so organised and they recognise the value of getting kids in early and giving them treats like this.
                    wish Munster rugby could be so progressive
                    ]
                    Child prices for games can be free for members for this season and pretty cheap otherwise particularly if organised by the clubs in bulk.

                    The players make a huge effort with the kids and the fanzone is good fun.

                    A lot of the clubs do wear their jersey attending depending on the weather..

                    It's definitely being ramped up by both Munsterrugby and MRSC..

                    One issue I do see is trying to get to an early game in Limerick on a Sat after their own training.. Of course if matches could be arranged with Limerick Clubs some of those days then we could pack Thomond out....

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Rabb1tts Jump View Post
                      Both organisations are abandoning the club players for the elite. The health of a county in football or hurling is judged not by how many kids and adults play every weekend but by whether the top 15 in each county are doing well or not. Rugby has long gone down that round. People will think Irish rugby is doing well based on whether the Irish resident XV are doing well, not based on whether the clubs can field seconds, thirds, fourth, fifths, etc.

                      There needs to be a fundamental evaluation of Irish sport, including rugby, and the question is what is success. Is it it elite level performance or is it participation. Both can complement each other, but as always one goal needs primacy, and in the Irish rugby case it is elite level above all else.
                      How long has it been since any main focus has been on the overall and not the top teams/players?
                      Who carries out this fundamental evaluation and how does it bring change? What would you propose as changes to current set up?

                      Originally posted by treatycity1 View Post
                      How is the youth game structure in the clubs?
                      I have been away for many years so have no idea if clubs are attracting the kids,
                      saw this on the Highlanders website, the kids sturucure in NZ is so organised and they recognise the value of getting kids in early and giving them treats like this.
                      wish Munster rugby could be so progressive
                      http://thehighlanders.co.nz/our-news/latest-news
                      Benders Shout - PYO Voucher


                      Print me out and bring me to Forsyth Barr Stadium, Gate C to get free entry to Highlanders v Sharks - remember you must be wearing your jnr rugby club uniform too!

                      Thanks to Tux we have 500 free balls to give to the first 500 kids in their club uniform - gates open at 6.30pm.


                      Parents please go to http://www.ticketdirect.co.nz/event/...nders-v-sharks and use the PROMO CODE: BENDERSSHOUT to access $20.00 adult tickets

                      There is plenty of offers for kids from the professional sides. Free tickets for 4/5/6 clubs each and every game. Kids playing minis at half time during the pro game.

                      Originally posted by Mrsmarkcaver! View Post
                      Child prices for games can be free for members for this season and pretty cheap otherwise particularly if organised by the clubs in bulk.

                      The players make a huge effort with the kids and the fanzone is good fun.

                      A lot of the clubs do wear their jersey attending depending on the weather..

                      It's definitely being ramped up by both Munsterrugby and MRSC..

                      One issue I do see is trying to get to an early game in Limerick on a Sat after their own training.. Of course if matches could be arranged with Limerick Clubs some of those days then we could pack Thomond out....
                      But issues there are Cork clubs train and play Saturdays and Limerick/North Munster are Sundays. Playing other days isn't always possible.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                        How long has it been since any main focus has been on the overall and not the top teams/players?
                        Who carries out this fundamental evaluation and how does it bring change? What would you propose as changes to current set up?
                        I would propose that the primary measure of success of the rugby union be the number of children and adults playing the game competitively each week. Everything works back from that. If junior clubs can field two or three teams, and senior clubs four to six teams each, then I would be happier for the future of our sport, than if the national team is winning 6 nations but we have less than 10,000 adults playing the game.

                        I love the professional game, but it is not the barometer of success in our sport. However it is the only thing that the IRFU and the four branches really care about now. We'll end up like American Football soon, something that is played in schools and then people either make it to the big time or they don't play at all.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Rabb1tts Jump View Post
                          I would propose that the primary measure of success of the rugby union be the number of children and adults playing the game competitively each week. Everything works back from that. If junior clubs can field two or three teams, and senior clubs four to six teams each, then I would be happier for the future of our sport, than if the national team is winning 6 nations but we have less than 10,000 adults playing the game.

                          I love the professional game, but it is not the barometer of success in our sport. However it is the only thing that the IRFU and the four branches really care about now. We'll end up like American Football soon, something that is played in schools and then people either make it to the big time or they don't play at all.
                          That isnt the primary success. Its one of the main ones but there isnt one out and out main aim. When have in most areas of the country have senior clubs ever really fielded 4 to 6 teams each. In some of the cities but how many others?
                          The branch is different to Munster Rugby. To say Munster dont care about the amateur game is nonsense. Without the amateur game they have nothing. But i dont see rugby turning like american football at all. We need to remove the power of the schools to help integrate clubs and schools so teens are linked to clubs and those with the talent are much more integrated into a professional set up

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                            That isnt the primary success. Its one of the main ones but there isnt one out and out main aim. When have in most areas of the country have senior clubs ever really fielded 4 to 6 teams each. In some of the cities but how many others?
                            The branch is different to Munster Rugby. To say Munster dont care about the amateur game is nonsense. Without the amateur game they have nothing. But i dont see rugby turning like american football at all. We need to remove the power of the schools to help integrate clubs and schools so teens are linked to clubs and those with the talent are much more integrated into a professional set up
                            I am not looking back to some mythical past, rather I am looking forward to a better future. The catchment area of almost every rugby club on this island should allow for at least two teams to be fielded.

                            What would your primary goal be for the IRFU?

                            I'm not saying they don't care, but there is always a hierarchy of wants, and the amateur game is clearly not at the top of that hierarchy.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Rabb1tts Jump View Post
                              I am not looking back to some mythical past, rather I am looking forward to a better future. The catchment area of almost every rugby club on this island should allow for at least two teams to be fielded.

                              What would your primary goal be for the IRFU?

                              I'm not saying they don't care, but there is always a hierarchy of wants, and the amateur game is clearly not at the top of that hierarchy.
                              But when ever was it top of the hierarchty? When the game went professional the sports changed for ever and this shouldnt be surprising to people. The club game never has been top.
                              2 adult teams are fielded by all but a small enough proportion. You never answered my question about clubs and fielding 4-6 teams. How many outside of the cities?

                              Comment

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