Munster Schools Cup 2019-20

[locomotion]

The problem is not the players on the competition panels (1 -- 24) in the schools but rather the players 25 -- 34 who are strongly discouraged from playing or training with their clubs with no sanction from the branch for these breaches of rules.
The proposed solution of having seconds and thirds games for these players in schools who don't make the cup team doesn't take into account all the players from non rugby schools who now wont have proper opposition to provide meaningful rugby

[ormond lad]

The issue is not with the 1st 20-25 players , they are getting a decent amount of rugby through the schools.

The issue is with the rest of the players on a squad , who are getting very little real rugby and spend the season holding a tackle bag or getting a few minutes off the bench here and there.

This is compounded by the schools telling even more players that they are in the squad or "being considered" for the squad when they are not at all and strongly discouraging players from playing Club rugby.

"What if you got injured??", "We were going to have a look at you next game for the Cup squad", "You really need to show us you're committed to making the team, playing for your club is sending the wrong message" etc. etc. etc.

Then when the schools do breach the rules absolutely nothing is done by the Schools committee - Despite multiple recurring incidents of various schools breaking the rules as laid down , I am not aware of a single meaningful sanction against a school.

Whereas on the Clubs side, there are clubs kicked out of competitions, results overturned, points deducted etc. on a regular basis for breaches of Competition rules - as it should be.

It's not a level playing field, the clubs are playing to the rules and are held accountable, the schools aren't and get away with it.

Then have it that the schools can get seconds, thirds teams playing and they play as well like schools in Leinster, Ulster do.
Yes the sanctions against schools needs to be stronger but when there is so few schools and all have reps on committees then nothing really will be done. You need to get more schools to higher level to get reps at that level.
There's wider range of clubs and wider range of ideas etc so sanctions will be smaller. Schools is small club so will do favours etc

[quin_dub]

Curious here, can you give any examples? Not good for relations if this happens.

Isnt there a group/committee in charge of all under age that has the ultimate power over the school committee and the Youths Committee, surely they can sanction if breeches do occur?

You are correct , it's not good for relationships , it's a large part of the hardened stance the clubs take in these matters because the attitudes are "it doesn't matter what the rules say , the schools will do whatever they want and nothing will be done about it"

For example the year before last the rules stipulated that the Schools panels had to be submitted by a certain date (end of September I recall). Failure to submit those panels on time was to result in expulsion from the Cup.

Almost none of the schools met the deadline , most were at least within a a week or so , but Glenstal never actually correctly submitted an official panel yet nothing happened , they won the Snr Cup that year.

There are multiple examples every year of schools adding/removing players from the panels outside the agreed terms , yet they are allowed to do so without any sanction. Teamsheets and ID card adherence are a joke in schools games.

In Club rugby , players are stood down and not allowed to take the field on the sideline in Cup games due to a lack of an ID card , Cup have had trophies taken off them for incorrect paperwork and so on.

[Stuckintipp]

The issue is not with the 1st 20-25 players , they are getting a decent amount of rugby through the schools.

The issue is with the rest of the players on a squad , who are getting very little real rugby and spend the season holding a tackle bag or getting a few minutes off the bench here and there.

This is compounded by the schools telling even more players that they are in the squad or "being considered" for the squad when they are not at all and strongly discouraging players from playing Club rugby.

"What if you got injured??" , "We were going to have a look at you next game for the Cup squad" , "You really need to show us you're committed to making the team , playing for your club is sending the wrong message" etc. etc. etc.

Then when the schools do breach the rules absolutely nothing is done by the Schools committee - Despite multiple recurring incidents of various schools breaking the rules as laid down , I am not aware of a single meaningful sanction against a school.

Whereas on the Clubs side , there are clubs kicked out of competitions , results overturned , points deducted etc. on a regular basis for breaches of Competition rules - as it should be.

It's not a level playing field , the clubs are playing to the rules and are held accountable , the schools aren't and get away with it.

Curious here, can you give any examples? Not good for relations if this happens.

Isnt there a group/committee in charge of all under age that has the ultimate power over the school committee and the Youths Committee, surely they can sanction if breeches do occur?

[Stuckintipp]

Seems a bit strange to have the points count for the table and yet the combined team unable to qualify for the knock out stages - doesn't that mean that effectively all teams in that group automatically qualify for quarter finals regardless of results??

All nine A schools qualify anyway along with the B school winner.

Its seems like they are calling these group matches ‘Cup Games’ when in reality they are glorified friendlies.

Teams that finish higher up the table increase the chance home fixtures and a possible 2nd chance. Teams at the bottom of the table won’t get a 2nd chance if they lose.

[quin_dub]

The issue is not with the 1st 20-25 players , they are getting a decent amount of rugby through the schools.

The issue is with the rest of the players on a squad , who are getting very little real rugby and spend the season holding a tackle bag or getting a few minutes off the bench here and there.

This is compounded by the schools telling even more players that they are in the squad or "being considered" for the squad when they are not at all and strongly discouraging players from playing Club rugby.

"What if you got injured??" , "We were going to have a look at you next game for the Cup squad" , "You really need to show us you're committed to making the team , playing for your club is sending the wrong message" etc. etc. etc.

Then when the schools do breach the rules absolutely nothing is done by the Schools committee - Despite multiple recurring incidents of various schools breaking the rules as laid down , I am not aware of a single meaningful sanction against a school.

Whereas on the Clubs side , there are clubs kicked out of competitions , results overturned , points deducted etc. on a regular basis for breaches of Competition rules - as it should be.

It's not a level playing field , the clubs are playing to the rules and are held accountable , the schools aren't and get away with it.

[ormond lad]

Would them making the 25-34 players available to Clubs not make things a bit better? - RIght now you lose 28 players with no chance of getting them back.

I'm still opposed to the whole concept of the squads in principal though.. Agree with the 30 game limit , but that requires proper enforcement of teamsheets etc. in schools - They are already fairly rigidly enforced in the club game.

Players should be free to play for whoever they like within limits based on Welfare.

The single biggest issue around Schools rugby is the lack of enforcement of the rules - Schools are getting away with not submitting panels , adding/removing players at will etc. all in breach of the rules already in place.

Even if they applied the rules already in existence, things would be a lot better.

squads should be in place to a degree otherwise you will just have some players playing too much between club/school and burnout/risk injury
If the schools could get more games then what would be the issue if clubs then had april for tours, cup competition to keep players with an involvement/tie to a club

[ormond lad]

Sadly despite many people making this point for some time now, no one has listened or is listening. Youth Rugby in Limerick city has been under attack for some time now and we are close to the end game where clubs in the city will abandon youth rugby to the long term determent of the game.

Why would clubs put resources into developing player to have them taken away at 15 years of age (or younger if some would have their way) with little or no guarantee that they will return after they leave school?

A plan for both schools and clubs to coexist needs to be agreed and implemented before it is too late. The clock is ticking........

But if the kids are playing rugby then where is the issue. Kids cannot be expected to play both all the time all through the season. Can they? Sanction schools who breach regulations more or do things more drastic. dont let schools use club grounds at all.

[Crescent boy 2]

Not correct from what I’ve heard. Result will count on league table, this is to prevent schools playing a team of subs. Combined team can not qualify for knockout stage however.

Seems a bit strange to have the points count for the table and yet the combined team unable to qualify for the knock out stages - doesn't that mean that effectively all teams in that group automatically qualify for quarter finals regardless of results??

[Stuckintipp]

Games against the Munster combined clubs team will not count, all teams are being given wins against them

Not correct from what I’ve heard. Result will count on league table, this is to prevent schools playing a team of subs. Combined team can not qualify for knockout stage however.

[LimerickRugbyFan]

Games against the Munster combined clubs team will not count, all teams are being given wins against them

[Newbie]

Fixtures have been up on Munster website for sheer period and it would have been decided at agms of schools committee etc last month.
will be interesting how the combo team does and how much they draw players from as cant really expect it to be province wide with so much travel for some.

Would be nice if clubs(youths) players got to play more on main pitch in thomond like schools players do

I would think the combo team will be compiled from this years Munster U18 clubs team and Munster U19 players that are from a clubs background. The travel wouldn't be a problem as they would generally train together once or twice a month throughout the year anyway.

[quin_dub]

Would them making the 25-34 players available to Clubs not make things a bit better? - RIght now you lose 28 players with no chance of getting them back.

I'm still opposed to the whole concept of the squads in principal though.. Agree with the 30 game limit , but that requires proper enforcement of teamsheets etc. in schools - They are already fairly rigidly enforced in the club game.

Players should be free to play for whoever they like within limits based on Welfare.

The single biggest issue around Schools rugby is the lack of enforcement of the rules - Schools are getting away with not submitting panels , adding/removing players at will etc. all in breach of the rules already in place.

Even if they applied the rules already in existence, things would be a lot better.

[Crescent boy 2]

The end of club rugby in limerick at u16/u18 at the very least . NCW, nenagh and ennis cant believe their luck.[/QUOTE]

Sadly despite many people making this point for some time now, no one has listened or is listening. Youth Rugby in Limerick city has been under attack for some time now and we are close to the end game where clubs in the city will abandon youth rugby to the long term determent of the game.

Why would clubs put resources into developing player to have them taken away at 15 years of age (or younger if some would have their way) with little or no guarantee that they will return after they leave school?

A plan for both schools and clubs to coexist needs to be agreed and implemented before it is too late. The clock is ticking........

[brightspark]

Have you any comment on the proposal itself ?