Munster Schools Cup 2019-20

[quin_dub]

The issue is not with the 1st 20-25 players , they are getting a decent amount of rugby through the schools.

The issue is with the rest of the players on a squad , who are getting very little real rugby and spend the season holding a tackle bag or getting a few minutes off the bench here and there.

This is compounded by the schools telling even more players that they are in the squad or "being considered" for the squad when they are not at all and strongly discouraging players from playing Club rugby.

"What if you got injured??" , "We were going to have a look at you next game for the Cup squad" , "You really need to show us you're committed to making the team , playing for your club is sending the wrong message" etc. etc. etc.

Then when the schools do breach the rules absolutely nothing is done by the Schools committee - Despite multiple recurring incidents of various schools breaking the rules as laid down , I am not aware of a single meaningful sanction against a school.

Whereas on the Clubs side , there are clubs kicked out of competitions , results overturned , points deducted etc. on a regular basis for breaches of Competition rules - as it should be.

It's not a level playing field , the clubs are playing to the rules and are held accountable , the schools aren't and get away with it.

[ormond lad]

Would them making the 25-34 players available to Clubs not make things a bit better? - RIght now you lose 28 players with no chance of getting them back.

I'm still opposed to the whole concept of the squads in principal though.. Agree with the 30 game limit , but that requires proper enforcement of teamsheets etc. in schools - They are already fairly rigidly enforced in the club game.

Players should be free to play for whoever they like within limits based on Welfare.

The single biggest issue around Schools rugby is the lack of enforcement of the rules - Schools are getting away with not submitting panels , adding/removing players at will etc. all in breach of the rules already in place.

Even if they applied the rules already in existence, things would be a lot better.

squads should be in place to a degree otherwise you will just have some players playing too much between club/school and burnout/risk injury
If the schools could get more games then what would be the issue if clubs then had april for tours, cup competition to keep players with an involvement/tie to a club

[ormond lad]

Sadly despite many people making this point for some time now, no one has listened or is listening. Youth Rugby in Limerick city has been under attack for some time now and we are close to the end game where clubs in the city will abandon youth rugby to the long term determent of the game.

Why would clubs put resources into developing player to have them taken away at 15 years of age (or younger if some would have their way) with little or no guarantee that they will return after they leave school?

A plan for both schools and clubs to coexist needs to be agreed and implemented before it is too late. The clock is ticking........

But if the kids are playing rugby then where is the issue. Kids cannot be expected to play both all the time all through the season. Can they? Sanction schools who breach regulations more or do things more drastic. dont let schools use club grounds at all.

[Crescent boy 2]

Not correct from what I’ve heard. Result will count on league table, this is to prevent schools playing a team of subs. Combined team can not qualify for knockout stage however.

Seems a bit strange to have the points count for the table and yet the combined team unable to qualify for the knock out stages - doesn't that mean that effectively all teams in that group automatically qualify for quarter finals regardless of results??

[Stuckintipp]

Games against the Munster combined clubs team will not count, all teams are being given wins against them

Not correct from what I’ve heard. Result will count on league table, this is to prevent schools playing a team of subs. Combined team can not qualify for knockout stage however.

[LimerickRugbyFan]

Games against the Munster combined clubs team will not count, all teams are being given wins against them

[Newbie]

Fixtures have been up on Munster website for sheer period and it would have been decided at agms of schools committee etc last month.
will be interesting how the combo team does and how much they draw players from as cant really expect it to be province wide with so much travel for some.

Would be nice if clubs(youths) players got to play more on main pitch in thomond like schools players do

I would think the combo team will be compiled from this years Munster U18 clubs team and Munster U19 players that are from a clubs background. The travel wouldn't be a problem as they would generally train together once or twice a month throughout the year anyway.

[quin_dub]

Would them making the 25-34 players available to Clubs not make things a bit better? - RIght now you lose 28 players with no chance of getting them back.

I'm still opposed to the whole concept of the squads in principal though.. Agree with the 30 game limit , but that requires proper enforcement of teamsheets etc. in schools - They are already fairly rigidly enforced in the club game.

Players should be free to play for whoever they like within limits based on Welfare.

The single biggest issue around Schools rugby is the lack of enforcement of the rules - Schools are getting away with not submitting panels , adding/removing players at will etc. all in breach of the rules already in place.

Even if they applied the rules already in existence, things would be a lot better.

[Crescent boy 2]

The end of club rugby in limerick at u16/u18 at the very least . NCW, nenagh and ennis cant believe their luck.[/QUOTE]

Sadly despite many people making this point for some time now, no one has listened or is listening. Youth Rugby in Limerick city has been under attack for some time now and we are close to the end game where clubs in the city will abandon youth rugby to the long term determent of the game.

Why would clubs put resources into developing player to have them taken away at 15 years of age (or younger if some would have their way) with little or no guarantee that they will return after they leave school?

A plan for both schools and clubs to coexist needs to be agreed and implemented before it is too late. The clock is ticking........

[brightspark]

Have you any comment on the proposal itself ?

[ormond lad]

Is it really the end? Hyperbole much....
what should be in place.

[brightspark]

Latest proposal from munster schools

Agenda: Schools Senior and Junior Cup Panels



A motion was passed at the Youths AGM to reduce the Schools Panels in CBC and CBC from 44-38.

This was to be sent to the MRC for approval. It was felt that an alternative proposal be put forward by the Age Grade Sub Committee (AGSC) based on information provided by Esports.

The evidence would suggest that……

• Those not selected for the school panel in September STOP playing rugby.
• Those released from the panel in December STOPplaying rugby
• Those players added to the panel in December are susceptible to playing too much rugby.



Proposal from the AGSC is that…

The term Panel be replaced by Competition Squads.

These Competition Squads to be increased to 34 in all schools with the exception of CBC and PBC.

All these players are eligible to in the schools Cup competitions (once they remain named on the CompetitionSquad)

1-24 ring fenced for schools, 25-34 Dual Status

When/if released from Competition Squad in December, players are eligible to play BOI u16/18 with the Youths.

With PBC and CBC, The Competition Squad to remain at 44 but 39 – 44 to have Dual Status.

It is proposed that the AGSC will review the playing stats mid-season, if a player is playing too much rugby the significant adults involved will be alerted. The spirit of this arrangement is that 1-24 will form team sheets for the Schools competitions. Any movement outside of this arrangement regarding eligibility will be at the discretion of the AGSC.



The AGSC propose that THE maximum games a player can play in a season is 30. If a player reaches 30 games in a season, they are deemed ineligible to play any other games that season. A derogation to the AGSC would need to be sought to extend their season beyond 30 games. If unsuccessful then it can be appealed under Article 4.13.


The end of club rugby in limerick at u16/u18 at the very least . NCW, nenagh and ennis cant believe their luck.

[ormond lad]

From my experience, having played both, it is significantly higher. I would even say 20s AIL is a slightly lower level than schools senior cup not to mind U18s clubs. I understand that it would be great to see everybody playing club but in particular at senior cup level it just will not happen in my opinion, even from a time point of view you'd be asking kids to play schools and clubs then on top of the leaving cert.

top level club games are not significantly less from my experience. I wouldn't at all call 20s club rugby lower than schools cup
never played schools cup but played enough of the schools sides in games including regional development game against sct sides.
it is comfortably done in connacht so leaving cert isnt an issue there so no reason why it can be used as excuse in Munster.

[LimerickRugbyFan]

how much of higher level is schools from the top clubs already though?
stopping or reducing number of school games at weekends and then all players involved able to play club at weekends would be better with some restrictions as in stop all kids from one school playing for a specific club as in limit that way would be better.
Who knows what way these aides will be picked/selected and how much they coach. Will be interesting if more info is put up about that

From my experience, having played both, it is significantly higher. I would even say 20s AIL is a slightly lower level than schools senior cup not to mind U18s clubs. I understand that it would be great to see everybody playing club but in particular at senior cup level it just will not happen in my opinion, even from a time point of view you'd be asking kids to play schools and clubs then on top of the leaving cert.

[ormond lad]

Yeah two teams from the non-A schools may possibly be a more viable option, a North / South split. Be easier from a training etc. point of view. A real progressive move though increasing these players exposure to a higher level more regularly.

how much of higher level is schools from the top clubs already though?
stopping or reducing number of school games at weekends and then all players involved able to play club at weekends would be better with some restrictions as in stop all kids from one school playing for a specific club as in limit that way would be better.
Who knows what way these aides will be picked/selected and how much they coach. Will be interesting if more info is put up about that