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Munster Schools Cup 2019-20

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    #16
    Originally posted by Stuckintipp View Post

    Not correct from what I’ve heard. Result will count on league table, this is to prevent schools playing a team of subs. Combined team can not qualify for knockout stage however.
    Seems a bit strange to have the points count for the table and yet the combined team unable to qualify for the knock out stages - doesn't that mean that effectively all teams in that group automatically qualify for quarter finals regardless of results??
    Its deja vu all over again!!!

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      #17
      Originally posted by Crescent boy 2 View Post
      Sadly despite many people making this point for some time now, no one has listened or is listening. Youth Rugby in Limerick city has been under attack for some time now and we are close to the end game where clubs in the city will abandon youth rugby to the long term determent of the game.

      Why would clubs put resources into developing player to have them taken away at 15 years of age (or younger if some would have their way) with little or no guarantee that they will return after they leave school?

      A plan for both schools and clubs to coexist needs to be agreed and implemented before it is too late. The clock is ticking........
      But if the kids are playing rugby then where is the issue. Kids cannot be expected to play both all the time all through the season. Can they? Sanction schools who breach regulations more or do things more drastic. dont let schools use club grounds at all.


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        #18
        Originally posted by quin_dub View Post
        Would them making the 25-34 players available to Clubs not make things a bit better? - RIght now you lose 28 players with no chance of getting them back.

        I'm still opposed to the whole concept of the squads in principal though.. Agree with the 30 game limit , but that requires proper enforcement of teamsheets etc. in schools - They are already fairly rigidly enforced in the club game.

        Players should be free to play for whoever they like within limits based on Welfare.

        The single biggest issue around Schools rugby is the lack of enforcement of the rules - Schools are getting away with not submitting panels , adding/removing players at will etc. all in breach of the rules already in place.

        Even if they applied the rules already in existence, things would be a lot better.
        squads should be in place to a degree otherwise you will just have some players playing too much between club/school and burnout/risk injury
        If the schools could get more games then what would be the issue if clubs then had april for tours, cup competition to keep players with an involvement/tie to a club

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          #19
          The issue is not with the 1st 20-25 players , they are getting a decent amount of rugby through the schools.

          The issue is with the rest of the players on a squad , who are getting very little real rugby and spend the season holding a tackle bag or getting a few minutes off the bench here and there.

          This is compounded by the schools telling even more players that they are in the squad or "being considered" for the squad when they are not at all and strongly discouraging players from playing Club rugby.

          "What if you got injured??" , "We were going to have a look at you next game for the Cup squad" , "You really need to show us you're committed to making the team , playing for your club is sending the wrong message" etc. etc. etc.

          Then when the schools do breach the rules absolutely nothing is done by the Schools committee - Despite multiple recurring incidents of various schools breaking the rules as laid down , I am not aware of a single meaningful sanction against a school.

          Whereas on the Clubs side , there are clubs kicked out of competitions , results overturned , points deducted etc. on a regular basis for breaches of Competition rules - as it should be.

          It's not a level playing field , the clubs are playing to the rules and are held accountable , the schools aren't and get away with it.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Crescent boy 2 View Post

            Seems a bit strange to have the points count for the table and yet the combined team unable to qualify for the knock out stages - doesn't that mean that effectively all teams in that group automatically qualify for quarter finals regardless of results??
            All nine A schools qualify anyway along with the B school winner.

            Its seems like they are calling these group matches ‘Cup Games’ when in reality they are glorified friendlies.

            Teams that finish higher up the table increase the chance home fixtures and a possible 2nd chance. Teams at the bottom of the table won’t get a 2nd chance if they lose.


            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by quin_dub View Post
              The issue is not with the 1st 20-25 players , they are getting a decent amount of rugby through the schools.

              The issue is with the rest of the players on a squad , who are getting very little real rugby and spend the season holding a tackle bag or getting a few minutes off the bench here and there.

              This is compounded by the schools telling even more players that they are in the squad or "being considered" for the squad when they are not at all and strongly discouraging players from playing Club rugby.

              "What if you got injured??" , "We were going to have a look at you next game for the Cup squad" , "You really need to show us you're committed to making the team , playing for your club is sending the wrong message" etc. etc. etc.

              Then when the schools do breach the rules absolutely nothing is done by the Schools committee - Despite multiple recurring incidents of various schools breaking the rules as laid down , I am not aware of a single meaningful sanction against a school.

              Whereas on the Clubs side , there are clubs kicked out of competitions , results overturned , points deducted etc. on a regular basis for breaches of Competition rules - as it should be.

              It's not a level playing field , the clubs are playing to the rules and are held accountable , the schools aren't and get away with it.
              Curious here, can you give any examples? Not good for relations if this happens.

              Isnt there a group/committee in charge of all under age that has the ultimate power over the school committee and the Youths Committee, surely they can sanction if breeches do occur?

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Stuckintipp View Post

                Curious here, can you give any examples? Not good for relations if this happens.

                Isnt there a group/committee in charge of all under age that has the ultimate power over the school committee and the Youths Committee, surely they can sanction if breeches do occur?
                You are correct , it's not good for relationships , it's a large part of the hardened stance the clubs take in these matters because the attitudes are "it doesn't matter what the rules say , the schools will do whatever they want and nothing will be done about it"

                For example the year before last the rules stipulated that the Schools panels had to be submitted by a certain date (end of September I recall). Failure to submit those panels on time was to result in expulsion from the Cup.

                Almost none of the schools met the deadline , most were at least within a a week or so , but Glenstal never actually correctly submitted an official panel yet nothing happened , they won the Snr Cup that year.

                There are multiple examples every year of schools adding/removing players from the panels outside the agreed terms , yet they are allowed to do so without any sanction. Teamsheets and ID card adherence are a joke in schools games.

                In Club rugby , players are stood down and not allowed to take the field on the sideline in Cup games due to a lack of an ID card , Cup have had trophies taken off them for incorrect paperwork and so on.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by quin_dub View Post
                  The issue is not with the 1st 20-25 players , they are getting a decent amount of rugby through the schools.

                  The issue is with the rest of the players on a squad , who are getting very little real rugby and spend the season holding a tackle bag or getting a few minutes off the bench here and there.

                  This is compounded by the schools telling even more players that they are in the squad or "being considered" for the squad when they are not at all and strongly discouraging players from playing Club rugby.

                  "What if you got injured??", "We were going to have a look at you next game for the Cup squad", "You really need to show us you're committed to making the team, playing for your club is sending the wrong message" etc. etc. etc.

                  Then when the schools do breach the rules absolutely nothing is done by the Schools committee - Despite multiple recurring incidents of various schools breaking the rules as laid down , I am not aware of a single meaningful sanction against a school.

                  Whereas on the Clubs side, there are clubs kicked out of competitions, results overturned, points deducted etc. on a regular basis for breaches of Competition rules - as it should be.

                  It's not a level playing field, the clubs are playing to the rules and are held accountable, the schools aren't and get away with it.
                  Then have it that the schools can get seconds, thirds teams playing and they play as well like schools in Leinster, Ulster do.
                  Yes the sanctions against schools needs to be stronger but when there is so few schools and all have reps on committees then nothing really will be done. You need to get more schools to higher level to get reps at that level.
                  There's wider range of clubs and wider range of ideas etc so sanctions will be smaller. Schools is small club so will do favours etc

                  Comment


                    #24
                    The problem is not the players on the competition panels (1 -- 24) in the schools but rather the players 25 -- 34 who are strongly discouraged from playing or training with their clubs with no sanction from the branch for these breaches of rules.
                    The proposed solution of having seconds and thirds games for these players in schools who don't make the cup team doesn't take into account all the players from non rugby schools who now wont have proper opposition to provide meaningful rugby

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by locomotion View Post
                      The problem is not the players on the competition panels (1 -- 24) in the schools but rather the players 25 -- 34 who are strongly discouraged from playing or training with their clubs with no sanction from the branch for these breaches of rules.
                      The proposed solution of having seconds and thirds games for these players in schools who don't make the cup team doesn't take into account all the players from non rugby schools who now wont have proper opposition to provide meaningful rugby
                      if schools were able to get fixtures for those on panel 25-34 and use non paneled players to make squad of 20 for 2nds match then what's big deal. Thats what's needed
                      players from non rugby schools will have more than enough opposition across the province to provide meaningful rugby

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                        #26
                        The lack of meaningful rugby across some of the regions is the reason clubs from East and West Munster have come into the North in recent years for competition and they are very welcome. In the medium to long term with the very high drop off level with schools players there is a potential for a serious shortage of players coming into the adult game and ultimately volunteers within the clubs

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by locomotion View Post
                          The lack of meaningful rugby across some of the regions is the reason clubs from East and West Munster have come into the North in recent years for competition and they are very welcome. In the medium to long term with the very high drop off level with schools players there is a potential for a serious shortage of players coming into the adult game and ultimately volunteers within the clubs
                          nenagh moved to cut distance for travel in some cases for games which was primary reason. Up to clubs in limerick to put in procedures then to keep kids interested in playing after their teens.
                          as long as they're playing who cares where it is as long as they're able maintain some sort of link to their(a) club.
                          I still will always say some of the east comps especially 14s grade are higher standard than anything in north!

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                            #28
                            In North Munster competitions are run at ALL ages from 13s up to 18.5 with league and conference in the three lower age grades to avoid where possible major mismatches with weaker teams being trounced by the stronger clubs. I don't want to be harping on about it but 6 non exempt schools in the North region takes a lot of players out of the club system and the amount of red tape the Age Grade Committee puts on amalgamations makes it harder for the smaller clubs affected by the schools panels to field but don't worry we will keep on playing and arguing until someone takes notice

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by locomotion View Post
                              In North Munster competitions are run at ALL ages from 13s up to 18.5 with league and conference in the three lower age grades to avoid where possible major mismatches with weaker teams being trounced by the stronger clubs. I don't want to be harping on about it but 6 non exempt schools in the North region takes a lot of players out of the club system and the amount of red tape the Age Grade Committee puts on amalgamations makes it harder for the smaller clubs affected by the schools panels to field but don't worry we will keep on playing and arguing until someone takes notice
                              The most important thing is kids playing. if kids are able to play in school without clubs having fights over so many things year on year then where is the problem?
                              There isnt really that much red tape to get amalgamations put in or loans to allow kids play rugby. certainly hasnt stopped quite a few players over the years play for nenagh on loan or in amalgamations.

                              Anyway squad of Munster CSP for schools cup has been named. will be interesting to see how they do
                              Luke Doyle (Waterford City RFC), Edwin Edugobo (Cobh Pirates RFC), James Finn (Nenagh Ormond RFC), Rory Landers (Cork Constitution), Fabian Loughrey (Sunday's Well RFC), Daniel McCarthy (Midleton RFC), Darragh McCarthy (Cobh Pirates RFC), Matt McCarthy (Clonakilty RFC), Conor McMahon (Nenagh Ormond RFC), Conor Moloney (Ennis RFC), Dylan Murphy (Capt) (Nenagh Ormond RFC), Oji Ihechi (Douglas RFC), Jack O'Sullivan (Cobh Pirates RFC), Jack O'Sullivan (Cobh Pirates RFC), Jaymes O'Sullivan (Cashel RFC), Sam Quinlan (Thurles RFC), Kian Regan (Tralee RFC), Seamus Lyne (Tralee RFC), Jay Traynor (Waterpark RCF)

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Games started in group stage. Comp beat munchins 22-7, Munster clubs select beat ard scoil 31-29,
                                Rockwell beat glenstal 20-8 terrible game. Ref was delayed so game started 40+ minutes late.

                                castletroy beat bandon 18-7

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