Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Lions Tour 2017 Rugby Discussion Thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
    And the question of rugby credibility is more complex than you make out. The Lions is a particular rugby challenge - to forge a team, and a game plan, from a set of disparate groups and systems.

    It's not about 4 vs 1.
    By the way I do love that - less than the sum of its parts - argument...Its a cracker.
    ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

    Originally Posted by mr chips
    AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post
      So the Ryder cup has been' knocked down' by evolving into something better????.

      Why be so precious about changing something- the Lions have only 1 credible destination- and after last night not that credible why not move with the times-the gulf between Southern and Northern hemisphere is now negligible?.

      The spirit of Rugby is better served by being open rather that perpetuating an old boys tradition - which has been great but has had its day.

      Bring on European Lions versus SH.
      I think it's a strange event. the players see it as being huge and it's a massive 3 week piss up for the fans. It's not as if the irish and english don't need an excuse to show their capacity to be alcoholics for a month. Personally I enjoy the series and games etc.

      Do I care if they win? Not really. Connacht first and Ireland second for me. The Lions.....meh. I enjoy the selection debates here more then anything.

      Could I really shout at the TV screen for Dylan Hartley , Mike Philips etc .... Not really. Its the event rather then the game that I enjoy.
      I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
        Nonsense. Read POC's book and it's clear that the feeling about a Lions shirt among players is far from lip service.

        And the question of rugby credibility is more complex than you make out. The Lions is a particular rugby challenge - to forge a team, and a game plan, from a set of disparate groups and systems.

        It's not about 4 vs 1.

        And "belief is yer main man" is bollox. Trying to knock over a great sporting institution with cod psychology is a reach. Decision making and flawless execution are "yer main man", which is why it's so hard to forge a winning Lions test team.

        We get that you don't like it. You've said so before. But to talk it down with such palpable ****e is unnecessary.

        Just don't watch it. No one will care.
        Just as in politics there are those who can see the European perspective and those who cant see past the English channel.
        ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

        Originally Posted by mr chips
        AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post
          By the way I do love that - less than the sum of its parts - argument...Its a cracker.

          You could go wild and actually refute it.

          The reality is that since 2001 the Lions have won one test series out of four. Go back to 97 and it takes it to 2 from 5.

          So despite your assertions, the evidence suggests that the level of competition is about right.

          1 win, in the US, in over a century and New Zealand, where the Lions haven't won a series since 1971, isn't a credible destination.

          As was suggested earlier, get up the yard.
          "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

          "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


          "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post
            Just as in politics there are those who can see the European perspective and those who cant see past the English channel.

            And just as in politics, there are ideas that withstand some moderate scrutiny, and galloping spoofery.
            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
              You could go wild and actually refute it.

              The reality is that since 2001 the Lions have won one test series out of four. Go back to 97 and it takes it to 2 from 5.

              So despite your assertions, the evidence suggests that the level of competition is about right.

              1 win, in the US, in over a century and New Zealand, where the Lions haven't won a series since 1971, isn't a credible destination.

              As was suggested earlier, get up the yard.
              The results is more of a reflection on the NH then anything else.........
              I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                You could go wild and actually refute it.

                The reality is that since 2001 the Lions have won one test series out of four. Go back to 97 and it takes it to 2 from 5.

                So despite your assertions, the evidence suggests that the level of competition is about right.

                1 win, in the US, in over a century and New Zealand, where the Lions haven't won a series since 1971, isn't a credible destination.

                As was suggested earlier, get up the yard.
                We may well have a situation that the 2nd Ranked and Third ranked teams join (Ire and Eng) join with the Sixth(Wales) and Eighth(Scotland) ranked teams to play either the 4th(SA) or 5th (AUS) ranked teams?

                It would take some 'galloping spoofery' to call that credible.
                ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                Originally Posted by mr chips
                AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                  You could go wild and actually refute it.

                  The reality is that since 2001 the Lions have won one test series out of four. Go back to 97 and it takes it to 2 from 5.

                  So despite your assertions, the evidence suggests that the level of competition is about right.

                  1 win, in the US, in over a century and New Zealand, where the Lions haven't won a series since 1971, isn't a credible destination.

                  As was suggested earlier, get up the yard.
                  That is like pretending that Munster are not more than the sum of their parts i.e. the Clubs. lols.
                  ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                  Originally Posted by mr chips
                  AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

                  Comment


                    #24
                    What's with the multiple replies to the same post?

                    Does some of the spoof not come to you until later??

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by The Outlaw View Post
                      The results is more of a reflection on the NH then anything else.........
                      They've been close though. The series in Oz turned on Justin Harrison in "that" line out, the KSA tour on ROG coughing up that late penalty. Split second moments that could have seen whole series go another way.

                      I find the series fascinating - the selection debates, the attempts to mould a team out of the various playing cultures, the technical challenges of creating a game plan that suits that selection and getting it in place in what is (in pro rugby terms) no time at all.

                      There's a limited amount of parochial loyalty that comes from the history of Irish players participating. But it's got a huge amount of the amatuer game in it for me too, and as someone whose main attachment to rugby has always been playing (or now coaching) at a club, that's important.

                      Whether its a call up from a club to a county, province, region, state or whatever, there's always been an important part of the rugby structure that embraces the idea of people putting aside their parochial attachments and building pooled teams. And the Lions represent that at international level.

                      A team whose identity isn't regional or national, but is based purely on the fact that everyone involved is a rugby player.

                      I still think that's a great thing.
                      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post
                        We may well have a situation that the 2nd Ranked and Third ranked teams join (Ire and Eng) join with the Sixth(Wales) and Eighth(Scotland) ranked teams to play either the 4th(SA) or 5th (AUS) ranked teams?

                        It would take some 'galloping spoofery' to call that credible.
                        Putting the cutting use of bold type to one side, why do the Lions not win all of their series if your critique is an accurate one?
                        "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                        "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                        "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                          Putting the cutting use of bold type to one side, why do the Lions not win all of their series if your critique is an accurate one?
                          England have just been to Aus on their own and won 3-0. Ireland just won a test in SA on their own. The times they are a changing. The Lions are heading down the Barbarians route all about tradition and hospitality and bugger all about competitive rugby.

                          Euro Lions Shirley is the way to go.
                          Last edited by AdolphusGrigson; 6th-November-2016, 16:03.
                          ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                          Originally Posted by mr chips
                          AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post
                            England have just been to Aus on their own and won 3-0. Ireland just won a test in SA on their own. The times they are a changing. The Lions are heading down the Barbarians route all about tradition and hospitality and bugger all about competitive rugby.

                            Euro Lions Shirley is the way to go.


                            You still haven't explained the "competitive" bit with reference to any actual, you know, facts.

                            Your rejection of the "less than the sum of their parts" argument that you ridiculed above just suggests you don't have a real grasp on what's involved. Because every player and coach who's been involved in a Lions tour talks about just that.

                            And anyone, at any level, who's ever had to pull together a tour side or an occasional side knows what they're talking about.

                            The upshot of all of that is that almost all the series (bar the last tour to NZ) have been highly competitive for some time now. But you keep insisting on ignoring that fact.
                            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Plenty for Gatland to think about after this weekend, particularly with the performances of Furlong and McGrath in the front row. Lots of games between now and the selection date but this is surely going to help in getting a good number of our lads into the test side.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                                They've been close though. The series in Oz turned on Justin Harrison in "that" line out, the KSA tour on ROG coughing up that late penalty. Split second moments that could have seen whole series go another way.

                                I find the series fascinating - the selection debates, the attempts to mould a team out of the various playing cultures, the technical challenges of creating a game plan that suits that selection and getting it in place in what is (in pro rugby terms) no time at all.

                                There's a limited amount of parochial loyalty that comes from the history of Irish players participating. But it's got a huge amount of the amatuer game in it for me too, and as someone whose main attachment to rugby has always been playing (or now coaching) at a club, that's important.

                                Whether its a call up from a club to a county, province, region, state or whatever, there's always been an important part of the rugby structure that embraces the idea of people putting aside their parochial attachments and building pooled teams. And the Lions represent that at international level.

                                A team whose identity isn't regional or national, but is based purely on the fact that everyone involved is a rugby player.

                                I still think that's a great thing.
                                I'm not with on that I'm afraid. It's no longer a parish event at all. It's a revenue generator that's the only reason it's survived in the pro era. Because the Lions have been so disappointing in a results driven business it wouldn't have survived without being the cash cow it is.

                                I enjoy the selection debates and the games itself. But i can't warm to a team likely to be captained by Dylan Hartley. The reason also why it remains popular is because it has Brits playing for it. the Southern hemisphere hate England and really enjoy giving them a good pasting. I often think if we had a team of Celtic Nations we'd have better resuts

                                As a results business Lions performances have been truly shocking. England could win the WC in 2003- yet 2 years the Lions were whitewashed in NZ. In 2009 they couldn't beat an SA team riddled with internal politics and flawed selection policy of quota systems of coloured players - some of whom were not up to the standard - Eddy Jacobs being an example. In 2013 only scratched past a very average Oz team again riddled with internal issues where the players didn't want the Head Coach they had.

                                The pressure is on in NZ for the Lions Franchise in NZ for credibility in my view
                                I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X