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Lions Tour 2017 Rugby Discussion Thread

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    Originally posted by Daithi View Post
    Thanks for that. Jeez both of those injuries sound like they will seriously disrupt his pre season training, which as any pro will tell you is the most important training you do all y year. As oss points out above(all joking aside) bench pressing with his wrist and squats with his tendon will be seriously hampered for starters.
    I'm sure he can keep himself fit without excessive weight lifting, especially since he's a back. Probably too much emphasis on gym work over ball skills these days anyway. E.g. - The enlarged version of Robie Henshaw does not quite seem the player he was before bulk up.
    Erse end of nowhere

    Comment


      Originally posted by Spiffy View Post
      I'm sure he can keep himself fit without excessive weight lifting, especially since he's a back. Probably too much emphasis on gym work over ball skills these days anyway. E.g. - The enlarged version of Robie Henshaw does not quite seem the player he was before bulk up.
      That could be down to coaches turning him into a battering ram.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

      Comment


        Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
        That could be down to coaches turning him into a battering ram.


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
        And moving him to 12. He's truly D'Arcy 2.0: made his name as an exciting 13 who could also play back three. Converted to a boshing IC to get him on the pitch alongside the pre-ordained superstar at OC.

        Why can't we consider having two contrasting options at OC and focus on developing the likes of Scannell, Marshall, Olding, Aki (if he declares) and whoever else puts their hand up for 12.

        No hope of that since Leinster have nobody to replace him.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Daithi View Post
          That's a pity. May I suggest that if you used your other hand for self love activities, which you so obviously do alot of, that your wrist would heal that much quicker.

          Also you wouldn't lose so much weight so it should be a double whammy for you really .
          Stay classy...
          Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

          Comment


            Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post
            And moving him to 12. He's truly D'Arcy 2.0: made his name as an exciting 13 who could also play back three. Converted to a boshing IC to get him on the pitch alongside the pre-ordained superstar at OC.

            Why can't we consider having two contrasting options at OC and focus on developing the likes of Scannell, Marshall, Olding, Aki (if he declares) and whoever else puts their hand up for 12.

            No hope of that since Leinster have nobody to replace him.
            Would agree with all that. There is another interesting option - Experiment with Ringrose (12)/ Henshaw (13). Ringrose did get a run at 12 in one of his early caps and actually did well (was it against NZ?) though everyone thought Joe Schmidt was mad at the time. 12's certainly don't have to be be boshers. Europe's best 12 at the moment is Fofana - a runner with speed and footwork, rather than a heavyweight bosher.
            Don't know how much longer Sexton will hold down the Ireland 10 shirt, but I've always thought Paddy Jackson might have the makings of a good ball playing 12 with his footballing skills, speed and decent defence.
            Erse end of nowhere

            Comment


              Originally posted by Spiffy View Post
              Would agree with all that. There is another interesting option - Experiment with Ringrose (12)/ Henshaw (13). Ringrose did get a run at 12 in one of his early caps and actually did well (was it against NZ?) though everyone thought Joe Schmidt was mad at the time. 12's certainly don't have to be be boshers. Europe's best 12 at the moment is Fofana - a runner with speed and footwork, rather than a heavyweight bosher.
              Don't know how much longer Sexton will hold down the Ireland 10 shirt, but I've always thought Paddy Jackson might have the makings of a good ball playing 12 with his footballing skills, speed and decent defence.
              Couldn't hurt to try a few things alright. Would like to see if Ringrose has the distribution skills for IC.

              If there's one thing the likes of the Scarlets, Glasgow, Connacht and the Lions have shown it's that, unless you have a pack that can steamroll all-comers, you need guys in midfield who can get the ball wide quickly and accurately.

              Jackson has all the skills but think he's too valuable a 10 to convert at this stage. There are others about the place though.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Spiffy View Post
                Would agree with all that. There is another interesting option - Experiment with Ringrose (12)/ Henshaw (13). Ringrose did get a run at 12 in one of his early caps and actually did well (was it against NZ?) though everyone thought Joe Schmidt was mad at the time. 12's certainly don't have to be be boshers. Europe's best 12 at the moment is Fofana - a runner with speed and footwork, rather than a heavyweight bosher.
                Don't know how much longer Sexton will hold down the Ireland 10 shirt, but I've always thought Paddy Jackson might have the makings of a good ball playing 12 with his footballing skills, speed and decent defence.
                hmmm , i can't agree with a lot of that Spiffy. Sure Fofana has some speed and great footballing skills, but he also has serious, serious power and packs a huge punch. Just looking at him, his power to weight ratio looks similar to BOD in his prime i.e. stratospheric for his height and weight.

                also young Ringrose is undoubtedly a very fine player going forward, but he is still lacking power IMHO and too regularly gets steamrolled still in midfield, and probably needs another preseason or 2 to reach parity with most (or any) international centres.

                Jackson at 12 , yeah maybe, a fine distributor, footballer and decent tackler for a 10, but again would he have the power &/or defence required of a 12 at international level!?

                ..... as Scotty may have said once or twice 'not so sure there captain..... I canno give you no more power'
                ____________________________________________
                Munster were great when they were Munster.

                alas they are just north munster now.......
                ____________________________________________

                Comment


                  Henshaw is a better 12 than Ringrose and Ringrose is a better 13 than Henshaw. I assume that's the selection criteria.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post
                    Henshaw is a better 12 than Ringrose and Ringrose is a better 13 than Henshaw. I assume that's the selection criteria.
                    Well, Henshaw's not a very good 12. He's a big lad doing a job.

                    No idea whether Ringrose is better option or not. Personally I'd like to see them both playing in their best position: 13.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post
                      Well, Henshaw's not a very good 12. He's a big lad doing a job.

                      No idea whether Ringrose is better option or not. Personally I'd like to see them both playing in their best position: 13.
                      Whether Henshaw is a 12 or 13 is irrelevant really. The point now is that he is by a fair distance the best 12 in the country, hence his Lions selection, and fella's like Marshell, Scannell, Stuart Mc are a long way off suggesting that they are ever going to hold down an international jersey, let alone get a Lions call-up. It's hardly worthwhile dropping either of Ireland's two outstanding young talents to try out different options at 12. That's the 2019 WC centre pairing, injury permitting.

                      If Joe Schmidt thought Ireland would get more from Henshaw and Ringrose with their roles reversed, then he'd do it, no reason not to. He cant play both at 13. Maybe Aki will add some options to the mix.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Omerta View Post
                        Whether Henshaw is a 12 or 13 is irrelevant really. The point now is that he is by a fair distance the best 12 in the country, hence his Lions selection, and fella's like Marshell, Scannell, Stuart Mc are a long way off suggesting that they are ever going to hold down an international jersey, let alone get a Lions call-up. It's hardly worthwhile dropping either of Ireland's two outstanding young talents to try out different options at 12. That's the 2019 WC centre pairing, injury permitting.

                        If Joe Schmidt thought Ireland would get more from Henshaw and Ringrose with their roles reversed, then he'd do it, no reason not to. He cant play both at 13. Maybe Aki will add some options to the mix.
                        More than two years out from the RWC you've decided our centre pairing, despite the fact that our backs play one dimensional rugby that a committed rush defence and competent back three can handle fairly easily. That's the problem in a nutshell. Most other positions are considered up for grabs, but for some reason the Henshaw/Ringrose partnership is sacrosanct, even though it's not very effective. I don't get it.

                        Henshaw went on the Lions tour and made zero impact. Ringrose didn't even get the call up. That's hardly a ringing endorsement.

                        Henshaw may be the biggest, most defensively strong 12 in the country. However, he cannot distribute or kick well (Olding, Marshall and Scannell are all better at both of those things) and he doesn't have particularly quick feet either which is why he was behind Te'o, who's another bosher but can actually step people, for the Lions.

                        The lack of penetration and playmaking skills at 12 will prevent us challenging at the RWC. Our attack is currently limited to bashing away with the forwards or playing kick chase, and that's simply not going to cut it.

                        Robbie is far better in wider channels where he can use his size and speed to better effect.
                        Last edited by Munsterboy; 27th-July-2017, 22:01.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Daithi View Post
                          hmmm , i can't agree with a lot of that Spiffy. Sure Fofana has some speed and great footballing skills, but he also has serious, serious power and packs a huge punch. Just looking at him, his power to weight ratio looks similar to BOD in his prime i.e. stratospheric for his height and weight.

                          also young Ringrose is undoubtedly a very fine player going forward, but he is still lacking power IMHO and too regularly gets steamrolled still in midfield, and probably needs another preseason or 2 to reach parity with most (or any) international centres.

                          Jackson at 12 , yeah maybe, a fine distributor, footballer and decent tackler for a 10, but again would he have the power &/or defence required of a 12 at international level!?

                          ..... as Scotty may have said once or twice 'not so sure there captain..... I canno give you no more power'
                          I think that the Ringrose reputation in defence is a bit of a myth and a something of a hangover from when he first appeared on the scene as a tall, gangly lad and it was just assumed that someone with that build could not tackle. I think he's OK as a defender now, but will miss the odd tackle here and there just like everyone else. Ball in hand, he is actually quite a strong runner and hard to pull down. He is an athetlic lad with good pace. I hope he does not go down the hyperbulk route and end up as a plodding Henshaw Mark II.
                          Erse end of nowhere

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Spiffy View Post
                            I think that the Ringrose reputation in defence is a bit of a myth and a something of a hangover from when he first appeared on the scene as a tall, gangly lad and it was just assumed that someone with that build could not tackle. I think he's OK as a defender now, but will miss the odd tackle here and there just like everyone else. Ball in hand, he is actually quite a strong runner and hard to pull down. He is an athetlic lad with good pace. I hope he does not go down the hyperbulk route and end up as a plodding Henshaw Mark II.
                            Ringrose is turning into a very good defender at 13 because he often uses his pace and timing to shoot up and stop an opposition attack in its tracks. He also has increasingly good positioning and the pace to prevent outside breaks.

                            Defending at 12 is a different kind of challenge though. Not sure he'd be as effective there.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post
                              Well, Henshaw's not a very good 12. He's a big lad doing a job.

                              No idea whether Ringrose is better option or not. Personally I'd like to see them both playing in their best position: 13.
                              I don't think Henshaw ever really had the awareness or decision-making ability to play 13 at a high level. That might have improved in time had he not been moved, but it's a moot point now.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post
                                More than two years out from the RWC you've decided our centre pairing, despite the fact that our backs play one dimensional rugby that a committed rush defence and competent back three can handle fairly easily. That's the problem in a nutshell. Most other positions are considered up for grabs, but for some reason the Henshaw/Ringrose partnership is sacrosanct, even though it's not very effective. I don't get it.

                                Henshaw went on the Lions tour and made zero impact. Ringrose didn't even get the call up. That's hardly a ringing endorsement.

                                Henshaw may be the biggest, most defensively strong 12 in the country. However, he cannot distribute or kick well (Olding, Marshall and Scannell are all better at both of those things) and he doesn't have particularly quick feet either which is why he was behind Te'o, who's another bosher but can actually step people, for the Lions.

                                The lack of penetration and playmaking skills at 12 will prevent us challenging at the RWC. Our attack is currently limited to bashing away with the forwards or playing kick chase, and that's simply not going to cut it.

                                Robbie is far better in wider channels where he can use his size and speed to better effect.

                                The only person suggesting that the centre pairing is 'sacrosanct' is you. I was merely pointing out that Henshaw/ Ringrose are the currently the best combination Ireland have and therefore would represent a strong bet to be starting at RWC 2019. I would be equally confident that Furlong will start at tighthead and Murray will start at nine. I don't see anyone else pushing them close at the moment.

                                What you are essentially advocating is moving Henshaw to 13 and dropping Ringrose to develop a new centre partnership pairing of Henshaw and A.N Other, which I think makes little sense as Ringrose is probably the most exciting young player in the country right now. Left as is, the Henrose/Ringshaw combination should be a worthwhile attacking partnership in 2 years time.

                                Suggesting that Ireland won't compete at RWC 2019 because Robbie is going to be rubbish at 12 is also a bit of a leap. It's an exciting time in Irish rugby with a lot of talented young players on the fringes pushing for places. Ireland will most definitely compete at the World cup, whether they win it or not is another matter.

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