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Warrenball won't be enough. (Gameplan to beat the Kiwis)

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  • Lad
    replied
    Originally posted by redherring View Post
    He will now that Sam Jones has broken his leg and Haskell crocked as well. From what I've watched of Warburton over the last 12 months he's been really poor. Tipuric is suited to an open game. I can't see his value against that All Blacks back row bar maybe the last 20 of a match.
    Haskell, Clifford, Jones and Underhill all injured as far as I know. Anyway, we'll see how the season plays out but looking at it now, if I had to bet, my money would be firmly on Warbs (probably as captain) as nobody world class has emerged and he's a Gatland favourite who has delivered for him in the past.

    On the other hand I would bet that O'Brien wont start the first test even if I didn't have to. He has an awful lot to show this season and also has to stay fit. He plays a very attritional game. Furthermore, Gatland hasn't favoured him in the past so it's unlikely that he'll start now.

    Actually, now that I think about it, I don't see how Sean O'Brien will be a first choice starter for the Lions no matter what happens over the rest of the season. Even with a permanent move to blindside to accommodate Van Der Flier he would be competing with POM and Stander and in that case I'm not sure if he makes the Ireland XV. Long way out to call it and a lot of games to play but I just don't see it happening. Lions squad yes, starting place, no.

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  • redherring
    replied
    Originally posted by Lad View Post
    European rugby isn't a great yardstick for a Lions squad with Gatland coaching as the Welsh have the lowest representation but the squad will be full of them. If you're going on reputation, Warburton and Tipuric are ahead of O'Brien for a Gatland Lions tour. If going on form Brendon O'Connor is worth watching. Will get capped for England sooner or later.
    He will now that Sam Jones has broken his leg and Haskell crocked as well. From what I've watched of Warburton over the last 12 months he's been really poor. Tipuric is suited to an open game. I can't see his value against that All Blacks back row bar maybe the last 20 of a match.

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  • Lad
    replied
    Originally posted by redherring View Post
    Read my post. I said going on the last two weeks with a few further into the season predictions. I'm putting SOB in because I expect him to get back to fitness and if he goes the way he did early this year he'll be on the plane. I don't rate the Welsh equivalents in his bracket or the English. Hardie might be the surprise one. A lot depends on his 6 nations.
    European rugby isn't a great yardstick for a Lions squad with Gatland coaching as the Welsh have the lowest representation but the squad will be full of them. If you're going on reputation, Warburton and Tipuric are ahead of O'Brien for a Gatland Lions tour. If going on form Brendon O'Connor is worth watching. Will get capped for England sooner or later.

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  • sewa
    replied
    Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
    I didn't know that but that doesn't mean he hobbled off. Again give it another 2 weeks of games and playing If he proves fitness play him
    He had absolutely no impact on the game, if he is the best we have to offer we can forget about it. He looks very much in the Chris Henry category now imo

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  • redherring
    replied
    Originally posted by Lad View Post
    I get you, he's playing his way back but there was just a big contrast between what I had heard and having him in Lions contention based on the last two weeks. It will be great to see him flying again but it's slim enough pickings if he's the best on offer over the last two weeks.
    Read my post. I said going on the last two weeks with a few further into the season predictions. I'm putting SOB in because I expect him to get back to fitness and if he goes the way he did early this year he'll be on the plane. I don't rate the Welsh equivalents in his bracket or the English. Hardie might be the surprise one. A lot depends on his 6 nations.

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  • Lad
    replied
    Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
    I didn't know that but that doesn't mean he hobbled off. Again give it another 2 weeks of games and playing If he proves fitness play him

    I get you, he's playing his way back but there was just a big contrast between what I had heard and having him in Lions contention based on the last two weeks. It will be great to see him flying again but it's slim enough pickings if he's the best on offer over the last two weeks.

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  • ormond lad
    replied
    Originally posted by Lad View Post
    “We just made the call,” Cullen explained. “It was not preordained."
    I didn't know that but that doesn't mean he hobbled off. Again give it another 2 weeks of games and playing If he proves fitness play him

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  • Lad
    replied
    Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
    He didn't hobble off. He played 40 and subbed off at pre determined time. Likely to play more next week and then again v Zebre. Wouldn't at all be surprised to see him play in International if he can prove fitness over sev games...
    “We just made the call,” Cullen explained. “It was not preordained."
    Last edited by Lad; 24th-October-2016, 16:47.

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  • ormond lad
    replied
    Originally posted by Lad View Post
    SOB as in Sean O'Brien? I didn't watch Leinster this weekend but I heard he hobbled around for 40 minutes and went off?
    He didn't hobble off. He played 40 and subbed off at pre determined time. Likely to play more next week and then again v Zebre. Wouldn't at all be surprised to see him play in International if he can prove fitness over sev games...

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  • upandout
    replied
    Originally posted by Lad View Post
    SOB as in Sean O'Brien? I didn't watch Leinster this weekend but I heard he hobbled around for 40 minutes and went off?
    He'd one good turnover on the deck but he didn't look match fit whatsoever. Leavy looked quality when he came on, looking forward to seeing more of him.

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  • Lad
    replied
    Originally posted by redherring View Post
    As an aside anyone care to have a go at the first 15 going on the last two rounds of the EC.

    I probably don't watch enough rugby these day to give a great assessment but I'd along the lines of on current form with a few further into the season predicitions

    McGrath, Hartley, Nel
    Kruis, Itoje,
    POM, SOB,
    Vunipola,
    Youngs, Farrell
    North, Roberts, Joseph, Watson,
    Brown
    SOB as in Sean O'Brien? I didn't watch Leinster this weekend but I heard he hobbled around for 40 minutes and went off?

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  • Cowboy
    replied
    Kruis crocked at the moment and so is Itoje after the weekend. I'd agree with you about picking them though, two monsters.

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  • redherring
    replied
    As an aside anyone care to have a go at the first 15 going on the last two rounds of the EC.

    I probably don't watch enough rugby these day to give a great assessment but I'd along the lines of on current form with a few further into the season predicitions

    McGrath, Hartley, Nel
    Kruis, Itoje,
    POM, SOB,
    Vunipola,
    Youngs, Farrell
    North, Roberts, Joseph, Watson,
    Brown

    Leave a comment:


  • Kevin77
    replied
    We don't have the aerobic fitness and athleticism to match them playing loose and fast. And even if we selected the most appropriate players to train for 9 months with a view to doing this, our skill levels (at that pace over 80+ mins) are nowhere near the Kiwis. We cannot and should not take them on at their own game. They've been evolving and perfecting it for years and are streets ahead. I think if we intend to do this, it needs clubs to back the Rob Penney's and Pat Lam's when they do it at their clubs and give them 3-5 year contracts to see it through, then continue to evolve.

    As for the Lions, the weather will be dirty in NZ in June/July so we'll need to attempt to bring as much beef and heft as possible and an attacking line out threat and try and not get flogged completely in the first test.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
    Bosh won't work plain and simple. To be fair to Gatland the Aussie tour was played with some semblance of flair and the lions looked to create chances for the back three to score. However, as the Boks have shown down the years you rarely overpower the Blix for long enough to actually beat the feckers.

    I'm interested to see what approach the Lions take. I think they need to make the game open up because hoping to batter won't suffice.
    But if you open up the game and play it loose against the AB's you are asking for trouble.

    Argentina showed that imo in the Championship. They played loose off the cuff and unstructured Rugby and New Zealand bet them.


    The games will be won or lost on defence for the Lions I think. You will get scores against New Zealand but they always outscore the opposition. An excellent defence that can hold them and keep them low scoring is the real key to remaining competitive throughout the test match. Manage that and who knows.

    An excellent defence coach is no 1 imo.

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