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    Stand up for ourselves - Scrap the Lions

    If we want to beat the Southern Hemisphere teams we need to scrap the Lions - an outdated concept with its built in reinforcement of our 'inferiority' - i.e. that we need to send 4 teams (countries) to beat just one of them.

    Will we be sending 4 teams to play Argentina if they win(which hopefully they will) the rugby championship?

    A Northern versus Southern hemisphere every 4 years in between the world cup would be more inclusive - than the current old-boys-network Lions tours.
    ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

    Originally Posted by mr chips
    AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

    #2
    I like the Lions and it will never be got rid of while It is the cash cow it is.
    When the Lions tour we get to bring on our next tier of internationals and play Japan(2017), Pacific Islands(2021). I see the Lions as good thing.
    Japan have improved immensely and would be tricky with a full side never mind a side missing our leading players

    Comment


      #3
      I like the Lions, it makes a tonne of money. Not a chance it will be scrapped, nor should it be.

      Comment


        #4
        Pom and Murray

        Munster won't be offering up a handful of players for the foreseeable
        I am the million man.

        Comment


          #5
          It's a trade off, I think. A summer break lost every four years vs the knowledge and experience that players bring back with them (something that many Irish players acknowledge had big role in their development as professionals).

          I think the impact is overstated slightly. Did the Lions have a material effect on us losing to Argentina? Not really. It was the loss of key players.

          It's also worth noting that if recent tours are anything to go by, we do need to send the best of four countries to NZ and SA in particular.

          Overall though, I think the gulf is being overstated. An injury addled Ireland came back into a game they were blown out of early before running out of steam. A similarly injury depleted Wales took some putting away. Scotland ran an in-form Australia very close. France are a dire mess, and NZ lethal, but we knew that anyway.

          I don't see how cancelling the Lions closes that gap.
          "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

          "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


          "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
            Pom and Murray

            Munster won't be offering up a handful of players for the foreseeable
            We'll be offering up JJ too, in a manner of speaking. Not to mention The Earl and Simon Zeebs
            Gwan Joe!!

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
              Pom and Murray

              Munster won't be offering up a handful of players for the foreseeable
              It's two years away, so a lot can (and will) happen.
              "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

              "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


              "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                It's two years away, so a lot can (and will) happen.
                Hopefully we see more Munster lads getting capped (continuously) so they may be in contention for a lions tour. Right now though we are a little undercooked/inexperienced
                I am the million man.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by ustix View Post
                  We'll be offering up JJ too, in a manner of speaking. Not to mention The Earl and Simon Zeebs
                  Thats if Zeebs hangs around to be continually ignored by Schmidt. His contract with Munster is up at the end of this season.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                    Hopefully we see more Munster lads getting capped (continuously) so they may be in contention for a lions tour. Right now though we are a little undercooked/inexperienced
                    If they were touring tomorrow we'd have the two you mentioned, I think. But two years time, you'd hope that guys like TOD, Sherry, Foley, Stander, Cronin, are established internationals. Then there's the likes of Earls and Zebo who you'd hope have two good seasons in them in the run up.
                    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                      If they were touring tomorrow we'd have the two you mentioned, I think. But two years time, you'd hope that guys like TOD, Sherry, Foley, Stander, Cronin, are established internationals. Then there's the likes of Earls and Zebo who you'd hope have two good seasons in them in the run up.
                      You're on the extreme side of optimism there. TOD is 28 and isn't yet an established regular international, and with a full deck of cards it's unlikely he ever will be. Sherry is 27 and would be doing well to establish himself as first choice with Munster. Dave Foley is 27 and has only just broken into the Munster side with limited involvement with Irish squads. Cronin can't nail a place with Munster while Ireland is a long way off the calibre of propers in Leinster.

                      There's a lack or realism among many Munster fans as to the ability of many of these players.

                      If you were talking about Lions long shots (or more importantly, players who could be top class in their positions for Munster), I'd be looking at younger guys like JOD making a big strides. Potentially one of Casey/Scannell could make big leaps in the next two years, while (no longer of this parish I know) JJ has a big two two years ahead of him and has the raw ability to make the top level if things go well.
                      "There are probably more annoying things than being hectored about African development by a wealthy Irish rock star in a cowboy hat, but I can't think of one at the moment"

                      Paul Theroux

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by busby View Post
                        You're on the extreme side of optimism there. TOD is 28 and isn't yet an established regular international, and with a full deck of cards it's unlikely he ever will be. Sherry is 27 and would be doing well to establish himself as first choice with Munster. Dave Foley is 27 and has only just broken into the Munster side with limited involvement with Irish squads. Cronin can't nail a place with Munster while Ireland is a long way off the calibre of propers in Leinster.

                        There's a lack or realism among many Munster fans as to the ability of many of these players.

                        If you were talking about Lions long shots (or more importantly, players who could be top class in their positions for Munster), I'd be looking at younger guys like JOD making a big strides. Potentially one of Casey/Scannell could make big leaps in the next two years, while (no longer of this parish I know) JJ has a big two two years ahead of him and has the raw ability to make the top level if things go well.
                        TOD has been held back by injury, I think, as has Sherry.

                        I don't think I'm being unrealistic about the player's ability - just being realistic about what it might take to make a Lion's squad in two years time. There isn't an openside in England worth the name, for instance.

                        Making a break for the Lions in the next two years basically means being in the Ireland team the season after next and seeing what the other countries have in the deck at that point.

                        I don't think it's overstating things to say that, with a world cup cycle over and a lot of players fading out over the next couple of seasons, there's a lot of places up for grabs.

                        Optimistic, yes, in the sense that I'm assuming some of these players stay fit and find another gear in the next two years. But it's not impossible. Flannery was no where in 2005, and Ireland's first choice hooker a year later.
                        Last edited by Balla Boy; 25th-October-2015, 12:55.
                        "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                        "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                        "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                        Comment


                          #13
                          You've to consider whose picking the Irish team as well Balla, munster lads don't get into team green all that easily.
                          I am the million man.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                            You've to consider whose picking the Irish team as well Balla, munster lads don't get into team green all that easily.
                            True, but look at last time out. Maitland? Stevens? But for a predictable blow up, Rory Best would have been left watching Dylan Hartley on the telly.

                            Stranger things have happened, like.
                            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Stand up for ourselves - Scrap the Lions

                              Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                              True, but look at last time out. Maitland? Stevens? But for a predictable blow up, Rory Best would have been left watching Dylan Hartley on the telly.

                              Stranger things have happened, like.
                              And if Joe does manage to get the gig our lads will be even more struggling to get on.

                              Maitland and Hartley both start in the first XV for their nations. Pom and Murray are only two of those here in Munster like.


                              Ask yourself this. Who do you think will become an established Irish international from the Munster squad between now and May 2017?

                              CJ and............?
                              Last edited by Cowboy; 25th-October-2015, 13:28.
                              I am the million man.

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