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    #16
    Originally posted by Corcíoch View Post
    Its a team sport. Key point imo.

    A group of players are selected. The team wins, then the group as a whole are vindicated. The correct group to carry out the task was chosen.
    There are numerous scenarios which could show that to be difficult to argue for (e.g. a selected player with a known disciplinary record punches someone in the first minute and is sent off) and his team goes on to win.

    It is actually a matter of opinion but 'vindication' is not (logically) available for Mr Gatland's decision.

    Very poor stats for Bri would bolster(though not prove) his case.
    ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

    Originally Posted by mr chips
    AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

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      #17
      Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post
      There are numerous scenarios which could show that to be difficult to argue for (e.g. a selected player with a known disciplinary record punches someone in the first minute and is sent off) and his team goes on to win.

      It is actually a matter of opinion but 'vindication' is not (logically) available for Mr Gatland's decision.

      Very poor stats for Bri would bolster(though not prove) his case.
      Ara we're debating the difference between a hair and two hairs . . .ffs . . . .:)

      Its a difference of perspective really.

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        #18
        Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post
        There is no vindication of the dropping of Bri in the performance of Davies.
        It doesn't matter anymore. The Lions won big in the test series. BOD is now retired. I suspect very few people give a Sch(m)it at this stage.
        Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
        Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

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          #19
          Originally posted by Corcíoch View Post
          Ara we're debating the difference between a hair and two hairs . . .ffs . . . .:)

          Its a difference of perspective really.
          A difference of opinion - preciseamundo.
          ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

          Originally Posted by mr chips
          AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by John Cooper Clarke View Post
            It doesn't matter anymore. The Lions won big in the test series. BOD is now retired. I suspect very few people give a Sch(m)it at this stage.
            Largely that is the case - cant have incorrect use of the V word trying to re-ignite the debate. Down with that kind of thing.

            In relation to the Torygraph - and the potential 'evidence' - good to know what yer man's 'understanding' is based on.
            ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

            Originally Posted by mr chips
            AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post
              Largely that is the case - cant have incorrect use of the V word trying to re-ignite the debate. Down with that kind of thing....
              This guy was well able to use the letter V......

              Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
              Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

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                #22
                there may be a case for the slightest touch of overuse
                ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                Originally Posted by mr chips
                AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

                Comment


                  #23
                  Davies was the better player on that tour, not just for the third test. Had Davies not got injured he would have started the first test and every test alongside Roberts, and rightfully so on form im h o.
                  ____________________________________________
                  Munster were great when they were Munster.

                  alas they are just north munster now.......
                  ____________________________________________

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Corcíoch View Post
                    Bit of nonsense to all that.

                    The GPS data is only reflective of the movement of the player. Total movement, speeds etc.

                    It cannot capture the intent of the player. You cannot state that the data proves an inability on Brian O Driscoll's part bar he comes in off the park afterwards and states that he was trying to run as fast as possible as much as possible . . . or something to that effect.

                    What the GPS could just as easily be demonstrating is economy of motion from a very intelligent player. Someone who read the game well and spared his energy as a result . . .partly out of a necessity due to age.
                    Well the problem is we don't know what the GPS data showed exactly. The wording "his legs had gone" suggests he may have slowed down considerably as the tour went on, which may not have been down to economy of movement as much as it was simple fatigue. Or the journalist could just be full of it.

                    Ultimately, Gatland picked the right team because they convincingly won the game. Would they have won the game as convincingly with O'Driscoll? My belief is that they would, but that's an alternative history that doesn't exist. The fact is that Roberts and Davies played that day and they were in devastating form.

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                      #25
                      Jaysus - this thread went through the looking glass!!
                      "They think they know us, but they haven't a clue"

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post
                        Well the problem is we don't know what the GPS data showed exactly. The wording "his legs had gone" suggests he may have slowed down considerably as the tour went on, which may not have been down to economy of movement as much as it was simple fatigue. Or the journalist could just be full of it.

                        Ultimately, Gatland picked the right team because they convincingly won the game. Would they have won the game as convincingly with O'Driscoll? My belief is that they would, but that's an alternative history that doesn't exist. The fact is that Roberts and Davies played that day and they were in devastating form.
                        I think BOD is on record as saying they would have still won, but even he didn't try to maintain they'd have won by as much or that he would have been as impressive as Jonathan Davies. E.g. Davies got a cracker of an individual try circa 10 minutes from time, the type of try BOD hadn't scored since 2008/9 at international level. Also saying the Lions would have still won with BOD sounds fine except it really stretches 2020 hindsight to beyond the predictable. Gatty & the Lions management didn't know how good Aus were going to be, or indeed how good the Lions would perform, the Aussies might have k improved more for the third test as they had done in previous series to win them e.g. 2001. It was Gattys job to pick & prepare the best side possible to win the third test and the test series, which is exactly what he did. And form before & during the tour, and performance on the day proved he did that perfectly in the case of Davies v BOD. Time to move on, the great man's time was up.
                        ____________________________________________
                        Munster were great when they were Munster.

                        alas they are just north munster now.......
                        ____________________________________________

                        Comment


                          #27
                          You sure it wasn't Roberts?

                          Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
                          Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by lactose intolerant View Post
                            Jaysus - this thread went through the looking glass!!
                            and back...
                            Excellence is hard to keep quite - Sherrie Coale

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                              #29
                              Evidence shows us that when the physical mental and emotional demands have been at the highest BOD delivered big time eg such as our grand slam year. My firm belief is that the lions would have won anyway with BOD selected.
                              Davies played incredibly well but that alone does not vindicate his selection logically, as it appears to me that the base for the logic is that the centre position was the only theatre where winning and losing was going to be determined, which in a game where the sum of the individuals functioning as 1 slick coherent unit is infintesimally more desirable than the sum of 15 individual performances, which of course is incorrect. Although not needed on the day BOD had other skills that Davies did not have especially in terms of man management, game management and leading from the front especially when the going got tough. Therefore I would argue it was an illogical decision to play davies.

                              I'm not a lions fan, but my understanding of the lions tradition of melding an inclusive team from all corners of our islands would indicate to me, other than that above, that your captain, a man whose neck could have been broken in the last major battle, at the end of an incredible career, an inspirational player especially in regard to the lions SHOULD have been on that field.
                              So I walked as day was dawning
                              Where small birds sang and leaves were falling
                              Where we once watched the row boats landing
                              By the broad majestic shannon

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