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Gatland calls for debate on British and Irish Lions quota system

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    #16
    Fatland sleight of hand once again. The Welsh, same as ourselves, have an important series about to start and he's done it once again. Nobody talking about his team and everybody talking about him.

    He's clever and I think he pulls these stunts to keep his lads working away under the maelstrom he's created.
    I am the million man.

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      #17
      Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
      Fatland sleight of hand once again. The Welsh, same as ourselves, have an important series about to start and he's done it once again. Nobody talking about his team and everybody talking about him.

      He's clever and I think he pulls these stunts to keep his lads working away under the maelstrom he's created.
      It is hardly 'clever' when you are battling(unsucessfully) to refute allegations of bias in your Test selection - to admit bias in your (defence) coach selection.

      The Lions beat a poor Aussie team - sending 4 teams to beat one - when 3 of those teams have recently beaten them is hardly anything to write home about - except if you let your selection policy be the main point of interest.

      ps He has done a very good job with Wales
      ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

      Originally Posted by mr chips
      AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

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        #18
        A lot of jealousy is behind the criticism of Gatland IMO. He has proved without doubt that he is head and shoulders above all of his 6n's coaching rivals of the last 5 or so years. Has outsmarted the lot tactically and has got his selections spot on mostly while the likes of St Andre, Livremont, cooder, Kidney, Johnson, lancaster have squandered better playing resources.
        Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again (like picking Gordon D'Arcy) and expecting different results.
        Albert Einstein

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          #19
          Originally posted by Mcork View Post
          A lot of jealousy is behind the criticism of Gatland IMO. He has proved without doubt that he is head and shoulders above all of his 6n's coaching rivals of the last 5 or so years. Has outsmarted the lot tactically and has got his selections spot on mostly while the likes of St Andre, Livremont, cooder, Kidney, Johnson, lancaster have squandered better playing resources.
          As indicated above - don't doubt his coaching ability. That does not mean the criticsm levelled at him is unfair. He has a tendency to shoot his mouth off -as per last lions outing - "Welsh dont like the Irish" and in his criticism of Monseuir Rolland - not yet retracted. And of course being biased in his selections.

          ps on reflection we should never have ditched him.
          ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

          Originally Posted by mr chips
          AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

          Comment


            #20
            This is very random, but why not use a club head coach? this should remove all the nonsense about selection bias etc. There is obviously a very fair arguement that coach wont have necessary experience

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              #21
              Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
              The Welsh, same as ourselves, have an important series about to start.
              Made I larf :)
              My computer thinks I'm gay
              What's the difference anyway
              When all the people do all day
              Is stare into a phone

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                #22
                Originally posted by Mcork View Post
                A lot of jealousy is behind the criticism of Gatland IMO. He has proved without doubt that he is head and shoulders above all of his 6n's coaching rivals of the last 5 or so years. Has outsmarted the lot tactically and has got his selections spot on mostly while the likes of St Andre, Livremont, cooder, Kidney, Johnson, lancaster have squandered better playing resources.
                Don't know if I agree with all of that. Your comments about poor selection policies from the others (which I agree with), may have a fair bit to do with his success. Equally he has had a quality generation of Welsh players come through BUT it should be made clear that 1. they've failed against the best sides and 2. beyond their core of that squad they are weak in many positions. Kidney won a GS with an aged and probably slightly over-rated squad, Gatland has won a few with younger squads. I don't know that what Gatland has achieved is amazing or just very good, but it is at least very good. But I can't help thinking the dire selection policies of the French and the influx of foreigners into English rugby, tied to their ability to overhype the plain average, has helped him. Us being ordinary and the Scots trying to beat that for paucity of ability has helped as well.

                However all in all I don't think the criticism of Gatland is jealousy. Certainly in Ireland the bulk of it is because he has a big mouth that he cannot keep shut and a chip on every shoulder he could find.
                Last edited by Evil Omer; 1-November-2013, 12:02.
                \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

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                  #23
                  To be honest, I think Gatland is a fairly snide, sarcastic individual who saw a chance to get his own back on Ireland after being sacked back in 2001. This whole thing with people being up in arms because he dared to drop BOD gave him the opportunity he was seeking. Not that I think he dropped BOD just for that reason, I happen to think he was right to do so. But the reaction of the Irish fans was a happy, unforeseen side result for him.

                  I wouldn't take this as him actually wanting this to happen, it's more of a shot at the fans. Like the remark about falling on his knees and asking forgiveness. I ike Gatland as a coach. I suppose in rugby that's all that matters.
                  https://twitter.com/SaveTheHCup

                  http://www.change.org/en-GB/petition...e-heineken-cup

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post
                    As indicated above - don't doubt his coaching ability. That does not mean the criticsm levelled at him is unfair. He has a tendency to shoot his mouth off -as per last lions outing - "Welsh dont like the Irish" and in his criticism of Monseuir Rolland - not yet retracted. And of course being biased in his selections.

                    ps on reflection we should never have ditched him.
                    with you to the last bit, I will keep saying this over and over, Gatland was going nowhere with Ireland, being ditched by our backwater nonsense of a set up made him, he went off to club rugby, rediscovered his mojo, built up some very successful partnerships and knowledge and has taken that on to great success. Any attempt to look at his Ireland reign WITHOUT the massive application of hindsight shows that wasn't going to happen with us.
                    \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

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                      #25
                      His win / loss ratio with ireland was excellent, we were making great progress imo
                      My computer thinks I'm gay
                      What's the difference anyway
                      When all the people do all day
                      Is stare into a phone

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by sewa View Post
                        His win / loss ratio with ireland was excellent, we were making great progress imo
                        He was consistently decent to good followed by dire with Ireland. He took us beyond that spoofer Ashton but the telling factor is what he failed to do. In 2001, with a bunch of young players similar to his squads with Wales, he singularly failed to take his opportunity. It was the culmination of a succession of nearlies that weren't actually getting any closer, really. He had a chance of a GS in 2001 and blew it. That 10 years later he'd take those same chances with his eyes closed is because of how much he developed in the interim. That development was never going to happen with Ireland.

                        It should also be noted by people that despite what most of us think about EOS as a head coach, he revitalised the Irish backs when he came in as backs coach, (plus the arrival of some young lad who I think did a bit in his career). Before that our backs were shockingly poor for best part of 3 years under Gatland.

                        I have no doubt he has become the most successful coach in NH by a mile. But that is what people are using too often when judging his Ireland time.
                        \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Evil Omer View Post
                          with you to the last bit, I will keep saying this over and over, Gatland was going nowhere with Ireland, being ditched by our backwater nonsense of a set up made him, he went off to club rugby, rediscovered his mojo, built up some very successful partnerships and knowledge and has taken that on to great success. Any attempt to look at his Ireland reign WITHOUT the massive application of hindsight shows that wasn't going to happen with us.

                          You may be right -difficult to tell - seems to have been treated badly by Ireland - personally have no diffiuclty recognising his talents as a coach - but examples above shows he should not be anywhere near the Lions.

                          ps You dont need 4 teams to beat Australia these days.
                          ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                          Originally Posted by mr chips
                          AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

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