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The Lions - Should it be Canned for Good!? Time to Consign It to History?

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    Originally posted by upandout View Post
    Irish players have plenty of previous with foul play in the past. Clohessy perhaps the most graphic to my memory in more recent times Messrs Healy and O'Driscoll have produced dangerous moments of foul play. Correct me if I'm wrong but at the time of the umaga incident there was no law against a spear tackle. That law came as a result of the play. I'm not suggesting it was right but I don't think a single isolated incident can be used as a reason to disavow a wonderful rugby spectacle. Duncan McRae and his fists of fury was a more deliberate attempt to inflict pain and injury on a Lion. However that was ROG so we don't get so up in arms, Burger gouged again a very deliberate act of foul play with dangerous consequences but we're not holding onto that as a reason to stop the Lions. Players will transgress the law, competitive spirit ensures that. I believe they set out to rattle O'Driscoll certainly; I don't for a minute believe they set out to end his career.
    We will have to agree to disagree on this one, I am convinced that they set out to injure BOD. There was a camera angle shown at the time which clearly showed them nod to each other before they piled him into the ground, needless to say that particular shot was swiftly erased from history by the host broadcaster. I do question whether they would have assaulted BOD if he had been captaining Ireland rather than the Lions, but that particular tour was such a complete and utter shambles that there are plenty of other incidents from it that can be cited as evidence against the Lions without bringing up an act of thuggery the like of which even most New Zealanders will now admit brought shame upon the game of rugby. I admire Carter massively as a human being and a rugby player but that tour will always be about that assault.

    Comment


      Originally posted by upandout View Post
      Do you genuinely think if Ireland beat New Zealand for the first time with a similar incident occuring that people would be getting as up in arms as they did when it happened to O'Driscoll?
      In fairness I dont think anyone on here would support any Irish or Munster players doing that.

      Originally posted by sewa View Post
      "he could have doid"
      Not even remotely funny the fact is he could have.
      I am one of the 5 clowns woo hoo

      Comment


        Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
        We will have to agree to disagree on this one, I am convinced that they set out to injure BOD. There was a camera angle shown at the time which clearly showed them nod to each other before they piled him into the ground, needless to say that particular shot was swiftly erased from history by the host broadcaster. I do question whether they would have assaulted BOD if he had been captaining Ireland rather than the Lions, but that particular tour was such a complete and utter shambles that there are plenty of other incidents from it that can be cited as evidence against the Lions without bringing up an act of thuggery the like of which even most New Zealanders will now admit brought shame upon the game of rugby. I admire Carter massively as a human being and a rugby player but that tour will always be about that assault.
        Haha well I believe we've reached a point where we just disagree on a factor that cannot be proven. I remember at the time thinking the 'deliberate attempt to maim' suggestion was over the top. I severly doubt you would look Umaga or Mealamu in the eye and tell them you reckoned they set out to end a fellow professionals career.

        Suggesting a nod as a conclusive evidence of premeditated bodily harm is a bit tenuous for me I must say!

        Comment


          Originally posted by upandout View Post
          Haha well I believe we've reached a point where we just disagree on a factor that cannot be proven. I remember at the time thinking the 'deliberate attempt to maim' suggestion was over the top. I severly doubt you would look Umaga or Mealamu in the eye and tell them you reckoned they set out to end a fellow professionals career.

          Suggesting a nod as a conclusive evidence of premeditated bodily harm is a bit tenuous for me I must say!
          Fair enough they didn't set out to paralyze him but they did set out to injure him and their means of so doing was such that he was extremely fortunate not to have been damaged more severely than he was. I would not even suggest having a look at the long distance replay on youtube because it is sickening. The reverse angle which has disappeared from history and, not only showed the nod, but also the linesman's proximity to the incident was shocking.

          Comment


            Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
            Fair enough they didn't set out to paralyze him but they did set out to injure him and their means of so doing was such that he was extremely fortunate not to have been damaged more severely than he was. I would not even suggest having a look at the long distance replay on youtube because it is sickening. The reverse angle which has disappeared from history and, not only showed the nod, but also the linesman's proximity to the incident was shocking.
            Are all spear tackles as bad or is this one special?

            Comment


              Originally posted by upandout View Post
              Are all spear tackles as bad or is this one special?
              It wasn't a tackle, the ball was twenty yards away at least.

              Comment


                What a load of tosh, two players try a clear out and it went wrong. Proving pre-meditation is impossible and requires an assumption NZ were that worried about BOD which I very much doubt given they were superior in every facet of play and almost every position
                My computer thinks I'm gay
                What's the difference anyway
                When all the people do all day
                Is stare into a phone

                Comment


                  Originally posted by sewa View Post
                  What a load of tosh, two players try a clear out and it went wrong. Proving pre-meditation is impossible and requires an assumption NZ were that worried about BOD which I very much doubt given they were superior in every facet of play and almost every position

                  Exactly! I don't see how you can tell from your armchair that the two NZ players were guilty of premeditation. Even if you'd conducted lengthy interviews with the involved parties and studied it properly it would be almost impossible to determine if there was any premeditation. Waxing lyrical about nods, clips and the linesman (btw is he in on the conspiracy given he was so close and didn't react to it?)

                  If they same thing had happened to Will Greenwood it wouldn't be getting the special attention it's being given here.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by upandout View Post
                    Exactly! I don't see how you can tell from your armchair that the two NZ players were guilty of premeditation. Even if you'd conducted lengthy interviews with the involved parties and studied it properly it would be almost impossible to determine if there was any premeditation. Waxing lyrical about nods, clips and the linesman (btw is he in on the conspiracy given he was so close and didn't react to it?)

                    If they same thing had happened to Will Greenwood it wouldn't be getting the special attention it's being given here.
                    The linesman's inactivity was related to the fact that the incident occured once the ball had clearly left the ruck and he did nothing. You clearly saw nothing wrong with what the players did so we are not going to find a lot of common ground and are down to a matter of opinion which I think we are unlikely to change in either direction

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by sewa View Post
                      What a load of tosh, two players try a clear out and it went wrong. Proving pre-meditation is impossible and requires an assumption NZ were that worried about BOD which I very much doubt given they were superior in every facet of play and almost every position
                      You really have no limits do you. It was a disgraceful tackle and only a fool would try to defend it because I haven't seen any angle where it looks good.
                      Helped along by a touch judge who spends more time looking in the mirror then on the pitch.
                      I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by The Outlaw View Post
                        You really have no limits do you. It was a disgraceful tackle and only a fool would try to defend it because I haven't seen any angle where it looks good.
                        Helped along by a touch judge who spends more time looking in the mirror then on the pitch.
                        You're making a pretty brave and outlandish claim that two players and a linesman were all implicit in the deliberate injuring of another player..... you really have no limits do you?

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by upandout View Post
                          You're making a pretty brave and outlandish claim that two players and a linesman were all implicit in the deliberate injuring of another player..... you really have no limits do you?
                          Blaming opposition players and officials is the standard default Outlaw setting
                          My computer thinks I'm gay
                          What's the difference anyway
                          When all the people do all day
                          Is stare into a phone

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by upandout View Post
                            You're making a pretty brave and outlandish claim that two players and a linesman were all implicit in the deliberate injuring of another player..... you really have no limits do you?
                            The incident speaks for itself and for a citing official to say there was no case to answer says everything.

                            Two guys who lifted a player beyond the horizontal and made no attempt to bring him to ground safely and a touch official who can only have had the first case of snow blindness in the rain somehow missed it.

                            We can all join the dots on this one.
                            I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by The Outlaw View Post
                              The incident speaks for itself and for a citing official to say there was no case to answer says everything.

                              Two guys who lifted a player beyond the horizontal and made no attempt to bring him to ground safely and a touch official who can only have had the first case of snow blindness in the rain somehow missed it.

                              We can all join the dots on this one.

                              The past horizontal and lowering to the ground safely measures were implemented into the rules of the game after this incident. Can you just confirm that you are actually stating that you believe Mealamu and Umaga set out to deliberately harm BOD, that the touch judge deliberately didn't report it and that the citing board were in on the act as well. In essence you're suggesting it was a combined NZ & IRB conspiracy to take BOD out of the series?

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by upandout View Post
                                The past horizontal and lowering to the ground safely measures were implemented into the rules of the game after this incident. Can you just confirm that you are actually stating that you believe Mealamu and Umaga set out to deliberately harm BOD, that the touch judge deliberately didn't report it and that the citing board were in on the act as well. In essence you're suggesting it was a combined NZ & IRB conspiracy to take BOD out of the series?
                                We're not going to agree on this and you can't prove you're right either.
                                I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

                                Comment

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