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Australia v Lions (2nd Test) Melbourne

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    Once time is up, play may only continue to allow a Penalty or a Free Kick to be taken.

    He would award the Scrum, look at his watch, and blow Fulltime. (or maybe just blow Fulltime)

    EDIT Unless, of course he wanted to flah Australia, in which case he might decide that the Knock-on was deliberate and award a Penalty :)
    Last edited by Piquet; 1st-July-2013, 13:19.

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      Originally posted by bazzyg View Post
      Look at all the restarts, we have Bowe and North who both usually do well and challenge on them, all of the restarts are being kicked deep, the plan is based on hoping the oppsition screw up, no positive rugby has even been attempted by the Lions since cuthbert scored.
      that has been a problem from the start of the tour - the chasing of kicks has been useless, not always because the kick was too long either, although you get to the point where if you can see they're not chasing the kicks then don't kick it miles away - which is the issue I had with the throwing away of possession by BOD that time, it wasn't even constructive, it was just a whack it away play.
      \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

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        Originally posted by sewa View Post
        Yes, yes I am, the pressure is on him and he is ****ting the course, he isn't looking to the stands for instructions surely? Why are the captain and Bod not having a quiet word with him, keep the ball in hand, if you lose having done your best fair enough, if you lose having played no ball well that's unacceptable
        would that be the BOD who, when the Lions won turnover ball at the death, needing that ball, decided to just hoof it wildly up the park? It was catching and much as I don't want to agree with ADHD the stats he showed, i.e. passed/ran 75% of possession he got, would be seen as positively cavaliar in most NH rugby matches. The problem is we're now at a point where the only 2 players you'd look at and say be working it to them, soft pops on the inside etc, Bowe and North, were just never there for it. The rest of them (bar SOB when he came on) are simply not offering anything creative or of use.
        \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

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          Wasn't able to watch the match live (listened on the radio) so only caught up with it on Youtube - with excellent Aussie commentary.

          Was I the only person who thought Joubert had an excellent match?

          Sexton seems to be dividing opinions. I thought he had a really poor match. He ran well with ball in hand and tackled well, but his decision making was poor, missing touch was criminal, his kicks from hand were generally OK but showed lack of variety or ambition, and there was nothing exciting.

          It was a solid defensive job. We need more attacking threat next week.

          James O'Connor remains a terrible 10.

          Comment


            Originally posted by eoghan View Post

            James O'Connor remains a terrible 10.
            I think this is increasingly a perceived wisdom. I didn't think O'Connor looked all that in the first test and would still be off the opinion that he needs more space to really flourish in the way he did when he first came on the scene however he is not a terrible 10. He's not the most controlling 10 by any stretch, it's largely not the aussie way either to have such a player, but he can play whats in front of him and he has all the physical attributes you could want in that position.

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              Originally posted by Aussiedub View Post
              When you see what Gatland has done with Hook/Biggar etc who are both better outhalves than Priestland he doesn't pick players unless they do exactly what he tells them what to do.
              You mean he wants a Number 8 to avoid playing the game, like Heaslip? He wants that player to make fewer tackles than any other forward bar Adam Jones? In an intense defensive battle he wants his #8 to make one tackle every 15 minutes, who out of four runs makes a whopping 12 metres?
              If Joe Schmidt was coaching the Lions you'd be quick enough to blame Sexton; if ROG performed that poorly you'd eviscerate him, but it can't be the fault of our Johnny....everyone's out of step blah blah blah....
              Last edited by RichardP; 2nd-July-2013, 18:02.

              Comment


                Originally posted by bazzyg View Post
                Look at all the restarts, we have Bowe and North who both usually do well and challenge on them, all of the restarts are being kicked deep, the plan is based on hoping the oppsition screw up, no positive rugby has even been attempted by the Lions since cuthbert scored.
                Exactly, and that's why unless the Lions adopt a more enterprising & attacking game, plan for Saturday, I hope the Aussies win tbh. They have been the better & more entertaining & enterprising side in this series by some margin so far Imho.
                ____________________________________________
                Munster were great when they were Munster.

                alas they are just north munster now.......
                ____________________________________________

                Comment


                  Originally posted by bazzyg View Post
                  Look at all the restarts, we have Bowe and North who both usually do well and challenge on them, all of the restarts are being kicked deep, the plan is based on hoping the oppsition screw up, no positive rugby has even been attempted by the Lions since cuthbert scored.

                  The plan is to kick the ball well into the 22, near the tryline and towards the touchline, in order to force the opposition to kick it back resulting in the Lions either receiving the ball in open play in or about the half way line, or having a line out more or less on the opposition ten metre line.

                  If you put up a kick off and win it back, you would be in more or less the same position. The danager being that if the opposition win it, they are twenty metres further up the pitch. Its not really negative play if you have a ten who can place a kick off. Sexton can in fairness to him.

                  Comment


                    I have often wondered what the stats are like when a team is awarded a penalty deep in the oppo 22 and kicks to the corner. What is the "success " rate compared to setting a scrum.

                    Personally, I can see too many moving parts in going to the corner versus taking the scrum. Throw/lift may be bad, cathcher screws up, oppo sack immediately, knock on in transferring the ball, oppo drive through.

                    If you have a reasonably solid scrum and a decent blind side, I would have thought the odds on scoring would be better.

                    Any thoughts?

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by RichardP View Post
                      You mean he wants a Number 8 to avoid playing the game, like Heaslip? He wants that player to make fewer tackles than any other forward bar Adam Jones? In an intense defensive battle he wants his #8 to make one tackle every 15 minutes, who out of four runs makes a whopping 12 metres?
                      If Joe Schmidt was coaching the Lions you'd be quick enough to blame Sexton; if ROG performed that poorly you'd eviscerate him, but it can't be the fault of our Johnny....everyone's out of step blah blah blah....

                      If your going to go down that route then defend O'Mahoney's contribution of 3 tackles or whatever it was against England. It comes down to the roles being required of the particular player by the team. I would be surprised if Heaslip, as the primary backrow carrier for the Lions, had tackled anywhere near as much as two defensive flankers or pillar defending locks.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Red Hand Hero View Post
                        If your going to go down that route then defend O'Mahoney's contribution of 3 tackles or whatever it was against England. It comes down to the roles being required of the particular player by the team. I would be surprised if Heaslip, as the primary backrow carrier for the Lions, had tackled anywhere near as much as two defensive flankers or pillar defending locks.
                        Apples and oranges RHH; I was merely serving ADHD a dose of his own medicine, since he did precisely that re POM and in defence of just about every position he ever takes. In any event, if Heaslip was the primary backrow carrier, his stats are even more pathetic. He passed twice and carried 4 times (that's a mere SIX times with ball in hand) and he made a whopping 12m, most of it on one run. He also missed one of his 5/6 tackles and coughed up the ball once out of the six times he had it.
                        Last edited by RichardP; 2nd-July-2013, 22:03.

                        Comment


                          To be fair to the players, how they're calculating the carrying metres doesn't add up. Halfp, for example, on the couple of times in the second half he kicked, ran about 20m before he kicked (in total), yet ran for just 13m in total. Now if that is metres over the gainline then it is nonsense, guys like Halfp are could be carrying for 30m and beating 3 players before they reach the gainline. Same with guys like Heaslip, as first or second out carrier you could be taking the ball 10-20m behind the gainline and then carrying for 20m, beating or driving through players, to get a recorded stat of 2m.

                          As for tackles, again it is about what is counted and where the game is played. If the game is played directly around the breakdown, which the England game was, then players who are set specific roles (e.g. it is not uncommon in Ireland to stick a back row into the 10-12 channel) are going to see very little tackling work. Good example is Croft in 1st test - the guy was positioned permanently outside the OC and we all know that is why he was selected, so he performed the role they either wanted or were happy for him to do, as a consequence he did less than half the work of the others. Is that a player shirking work or people using stats to make a completely false point? In the case of that POM stat it was clearly provincially biased misuse of stats made meaningless by zero context. In the case of Croft it proved the point that the selection policy and the type of player selected created an imbalance, it didn't show effort on the part of Croft because he was never really in a position to make major contributions.

                          I would also, as I have done, suggest people watch the match and compare to stats before just taking them as fact. I've pointed this out before that you have a guy with high tackle stats BUT actually they've tagged onto a tackle someone else is making. Good example is the carrier being tackled and felled by player 1 and player 2 gets a tackle "score" for pushing down on the guy's shoulders. Equally what does the choke tackle record - is the second guy in a tackler stat or not. I'd pretty sure that if the tackles made total for the team is just about 1 carrier stopped is 1 tackle then you'll find the tackles made total added up across all the players is unlikely to be the same number.

                          And lastly you have to look at this realistically. Some myopic muppets will look at a player making 3 tackles and missing none and effectively (if not outright) say they're a better defender than a guy making 15 tackles who misses 1. They're not because without knowing what those tackles were you can't make that jump. If you are making a tackle and I clumsily smash into you and take you out, that's a missed tackle for you. Did you really miss that tackle? (And that is a scenario that happens a lot more than people will initially realise when they go to say that's an extreme example).
                          Last edited by Evil Omer; 3rd-July-2013, 06:48.
                          \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

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                            Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                            Now you're trolling.
                            Whats that meatloaf song, 2 out of 3 aint bad
                            My computer thinks I'm gay
                            What's the difference anyway
                            When all the people do all day
                            Is stare into a phone

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                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkTb9GP9lVI
                              I always knew Madigan was a closet Scrum Half. Ignore All things that suggest Continuity.

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