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Qld & NSW Combined Country v Lions , Newcastle 2013

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    Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
    But if he was that slow then why did Heaslip motion him to leave it there till he got there? Why didn't he scream for the ball? Or when Heaslip got it in his hands, why didn't he get it away from contact? (to Tipuric) if he'd an issue with the speed of delivery?
    Ah c'mon! This is hardly worth piddling about on, but it's not that hard to understand. Murray was faffing about, wasting time and momentum. The County 15 were filling across to cover the overlap. Therefore a forward needed to take it even the necessary millimetres forward to regain that thrust. Tipuric could have done the honour (but is probably too nice), Jamie took us out of our misery. That's it! Small incident really. Young scrumhalf gets a reminder on the essentials- no harm done- least of all to him. But the 'guardians of the flame' spot an opportunity to take offence on Colm's behalf.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
      Click on lions stats in the black bar under the scoreline boss
      Ah! Thanks....

      Comment


        Originally posted by Borderfox View Post
        Then why didn't he pass the fecken thing rather than faff about at the base as he is prone to do?
        But this is just a typical 'bottle of smoke' created to knock Jamie, when he' obviously playing excellently and pressing for the test jersey. Jaysus- the pathetic lengths ye go to here to depreciate Heaslip is hilarious!
        Long one, but I'm trying to avoid writing more important things for work, so here goes

        He didn't "just pass the ball" because
        1) it's slow ball and defense is set, (3 lions on the ground, only 2 of them) so no point is giving it to the backs to go wide, need to drag the defense in more.

        2) if the ball doesn't come out in the first 1-3 seconds then the next 10 seconds aren't crucial i.e. 13 seconds is in effect no slower than 3 seconds, when the defense is set it's set. So in that extra 10 seconds Murray is attempting to organise his forwards into a new pod, to hopefully carry it up, get over the gainline, commit defenders and create quicker ball from THAT ruck which can be given to the backs.

        3) That's precisely what he was attempting to do there by sending Tipuric out, Heaslip should have joined him to make the pod..... I think Heaslip got it into his head that it should have gone blindside (he gestures that to tipuric and it's a repeated Gatland tactic) but either way what he did was incorrect.. he slowed down the ball further, removed himself as a possible receiver and quite simply made it easier for the defense (leave alone it was a disrepectful thing to do to a team mate, especially as a captain).

        In general terms, because this Munster-Leinster bickering is fecking tiresome;

        I mentioned how Murray is unfairly criticised for organising his forwards when the ball is slow, this is something he does well. Another excellent facet of his game is his ability to skip those pods and hit the outside channel by-passing defenders. He's set up a couple of tries like that already in this tour and another one which i remember distinctly because I was rght beside it was Earl's try vs Italy in the 6 nations a few years ago. (Take your time, set the pod, then either hit them and move it quickly from the next ruck or just skip them if the defense get's sucked in by them)

        However, a fair criticism of Murray is that sometimes he doesn't get himself to the breakdown fast enough, he doesn't run enough simple as that. Once he gets to the breakdown his pass is excellent (again, note how he hits outside channels, 3 or 4 men out from the breakdown) so when people criticise that it's rubbish.... but he doesn't always get there as fast as he should.

        For Heaslip, he mixes the good with the bad and the bad is obviosuly no where near as bad as gets made out around here. His big strength is his tackle rate, he makes loads and loads of important tackles. He doesn't get credit for it because he rarely flattens people, he just stops them. In terms of his carries, the good is that he makes himself available for a lot of carries, the bad is that against good defenses he's not able to find gaps and he's not a big Picamoles type carrier that can just blow people out of the way (the first person to mention ROG get's a slap ) So that's the reason he often ends up with stats of loads of carries, not so many yards. He's a more effective carrier for Leinster than Ireland/Lions because Leinster are better able to create gaps because of;
        1) poorer defenses a club level
        2) Leinster keep that ball well and that stretches defenses
        3) Leinster players repeatedly holding defenders off the ball to create those gaps. (or sometimes he's doing the holding like in the HC final against Northampton!)

        That's all my 2 cents and I think he's a good player and will start the first test alongside Warbuton and Tipuric (SOB on bench).

        Comment


          Originally posted by déiseman View Post
          Long one, but I'm trying to avoid writing more important things for work, so here goes

          He didn't "just pass the ball" because
          1) it's slow ball and defense is set, (3 lions on the ground, only 2 of them) so no point is giving it to the backs to go wide, need to drag the defense in more.

          2) if the ball doesn't come out in the first 1-3 seconds then the next 10 seconds aren't crucial i.e. 13 seconds is in effect no slower than 3 seconds, when the defense is set it's set. So in that extra 10 seconds Murray is attempting to organise his forwards into a new pod, to hopefully carry it up, get over the gainline, commit defenders and create quicker ball from THAT ruck which can be given to the backs.

          3) That's precisely what he was attempting to do there by sending Tipuric out, Heaslip should have joined him to make the pod..... I think Heaslip got it into his head that it should have gone blindside (he gestures that to tipuric and it's a repeated Gatland tactic) but either way what he did was incorrect.. he slowed down the ball further, removed himself as a possible receiver and quite simply made it easier for the defense (leave alone it was a disrepectful thing to do to a team mate, especially as a captain).

          In general terms, because this Munster-Leinster bickering is fecking tiresome;

          I mentioned how Murray is unfairly criticised for organising his forwards when the ball is slow, this is something he does well. Another excellent facet of his game is his ability to skip those pods and hit the outside channel by-passing defenders. He's set up a couple of tries like that already in this tour and another one which i remember distinctly because I was rght beside it was Earl's try vs Italy in the 6 nations a few years ago. (Take your time, set the pod, then either hit them and move it quickly from the next ruck or just skip them if the defense get's sucked in by them)

          However, a fair criticism of Murray is that sometimes he doesn't get himself to the breakdown fast enough, he doesn't run enough simple as that. Once he gets to the breakdown his pass is excellent (again, note how he hits outside channels, 3 or 4 men out from the breakdown) so when people criticise that it's rubbish.... but he doesn't always get there as fast as he should.

          For Heaslip, he mixes the good with the bad and the bad is obviosuly no where near as bad as gets made out around here. His big strength is his tackle rate, he makes loads and loads of important tackles. He doesn't get credit for it because he rarely flattens people, he just stops them. In terms of his carries, the good is that he makes himself available for a lot of carries, the bad is that against good defenses he's not able to find gaps and he's not a big Picamoles type carrier that can just blow people out of the way (the first person to mention ROG get's a slap ) So that's the reason he often ends up with stats of loads of carries, not so many yards. He's a more effective carrier for Leinster than Ireland/Lions because Leinster are better able to create gaps because of;
          1) poorer defenses a club level
          2) Leinster keep that ball well and that stretches defenses
          3) Leinster players repeatedly holding defenders off the ball to create those gaps. (or sometimes he's doing the holding like in the HC final against Northampton!)

          That's all my 2 cents and I think he's a good player and will start the first test alongside Warbuton and Tipuric (SOB on bench).
          I've been visiting this site for 2/3 years at this stage and that is one of the best appraisals of not only Heaslip, but also Murray, I have read in that time. Thank-you.

          Comment


            Thats a savage post Deiseman. Excellent procrastinating there Sir!
            I am the million man.

            Comment


              Originally posted by déiseman View Post
              Long one, but I'm trying to avoid writing more important things for work, so here goes

              He didn't "just pass the ball" because
              1) it's slow ball and defense is set, (3 lions on the ground, only 2 of them) so no point is giving it to the backs to go wide, need to drag the defense in more.

              2) if the ball doesn't come out in the first 1-3 seconds then the next 10 seconds aren't crucial i.e. 13 seconds is in effect no slower than 3 seconds, when the defense is set it's set. So in that extra 10 seconds Murray is attempting to organise his forwards into a new pod, to hopefully carry it up, get over the gainline, commit defenders and create quicker ball from THAT ruck which can be given to the backs.

              3) That's precisely what he was attempting to do there by sending Tipuric out, Heaslip should have joined him to make the pod..... I think Heaslip got it into his head that it should have gone blindside (he gestures that to tipuric and it's a repeated Gatland tactic) but either way what he did was incorrect.. he slowed down the ball further, removed himself as a possible receiver and quite simply made it easier for the defense (leave alone it was a disrepectful thing to do to a team mate, especially as a captain).

              In general terms, because this Munster-Leinster bickering is fecking tiresome;

              I mentioned how Murray is unfairly criticised for organising his forwards when the ball is slow, this is something he does well. Another excellent facet of his game is his ability to skip those pods and hit the outside channel by-passing defenders. He's set up a couple of tries like that already in this tour and another one which i remember distinctly because I was rght beside it was Earl's try vs Italy in the 6 nations a few years ago. (Take your time, set the pod, then either hit them and move it quickly from the next ruck or just skip them if the defense get's sucked in by them)

              However, a fair criticism of Murray is that sometimes he doesn't get himself to the breakdown fast enough, he doesn't run enough simple as that. Once he gets to the breakdown his pass is excellent (again, note how he hits outside channels, 3 or 4 men out from the breakdown) so when people criticise that it's rubbish.... but he doesn't always get there as fast as he should.

              For Heaslip, he mixes the good with the bad and the bad is obviosuly no where near as bad as gets made out around here. His big strength is his tackle rate, he makes loads and loads of important tackles. He doesn't get credit for it because he rarely flattens people, he just stops them. In terms of his carries, the good is that he makes himself available for a lot of carries, the bad is that against good defenses he's not able to find gaps and he's not a big Picamoles type carrier that can just blow people out of the way (the first person to mention ROG get's a slap ) So that's the reason he often ends up with stats of loads of carries, not so many yards. He's a more effective carrier for Leinster than Ireland/Lions because Leinster are better able to create gaps because of;
              1) poorer defenses a club level
              2) Leinster keep that ball well and that stretches defenses
              3) Leinster players repeatedly holding defenders off the ball to create those gaps. (or sometimes he's doing the holding like in the HC final against Northampton!)

              That's all my 2 cents and I think he's a good player and will start the first test alongside Warbuton and Tipuric (SOB on bench).
              Fair enough. Still think Murray spends too long 'organising' packs, instead of getting the ball out- and there was an overlap there if he was quick. But my point is Colm could be the test 9- but he persists in habits that might look good in the likes of Phillips whose whole thing is muscularity. Murray has more to him... but????

              Comment


                Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                Thats a savage post Deiseman. Excellent procrastinating there Sir!
                Yeah- now go back to work, ye lazy fecker!!!!

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Borderfox View Post
                  Ah c'mon! This is hardly worth piddling about on, but it's not that hard to understand. Murray was faffing about, wasting time and momentum. The County 15 were filling across to cover the overlap. Therefore a forward needed to take it even the necessary millimetres forward to regain that thrust. Tipuric could have done the honour (but is probably too nice), Jamie took us out of our misery. That's it! Small incident really. Young scrumhalf gets a reminder on the essentials- no harm done- least of all to him. But the 'guardians of the flame' spot an opportunity to take offence on Colm's behalf.
                  Who's "Colm"?

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Paddytheman View Post
                    Who's "Colm"?
                    Ooops! Now there's a Freudian slip!!! Gawd- sorry.

                    Comment


                      @Qwerty1 and Cowboy, sound out lads. cheers.

                      @Borderfox.....nuts to you and the paper I'm trying to write! Next I'm going to give my long winded opinion on why Keith Earls get's overly criticised for sometimes making poor decision after making line-breaks given that he's the only Irish back who's capable of making line-breaks!

                      Actually, no I'll leave that for another night Oíche mhaith folks!

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Mickey D View Post
                        It's incredible on this site how anything, absolutely anything, can and will be used to criticise Heaslip
                        Have you noticed how no one has criticised him for this mindless assertion you've come up with?

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by The Word Is Born View Post
                          He's a sartorially elegant version of Franno.

                          FIRE IN THE HOLE!
                          Harsh and unfair I'd say.

                          I don't think Heaslip has had a great season, but he is a fine player and works a hell of a lot harder than Franno ever did.

                          He is a much nicer guy too.

                          Comment

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