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  1. #15331
    Leader of the Red Hordes Eamo's Avatar
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    Equally amazing that he was allowed to stay in the house over an extra year so his kid's LC studies at the private school across the road weren't interrupted (based on a radio report today-I know it seems scarcely credible).
    I believe that all government is evil, and that trying to improve it is largely a waste of time.
    HL Mencken

  2. #15332
    Quote Originally Posted by fitzy73 View Post
    Now I know that there are oil worries, and that the € v $ has an effect, but Irish banks are absolutely plummeting in the last few months. A look at the ISEQ Financial (http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=%5EIFIN ) and you can see they are off by nearly 40% of their Feb 07 high.

    Some of them are on very, very low p/e ratios.

    Anyone have any views on why they are plummeting?
    Bad management - Like Children in a sweet shop taking money from German bankers.

    Bad business models

    Bonus culture - promoted unsustainable lending.

    Anything else?

  3. #15333
    Fish Poaching Patrol Benji's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John123 View Post
    6,000 went for the 2,500 redundancies. My mate went for it and didn't get it. Makes ya think...
    A mate of mine went for it and didnt get it. His with them 14 years and he and his wife were kidnapped in a tiger kidknapping a few years ago. She didnt even get a bouquet of flowers from them.
    His going to pull the stress card and family worries and re-apply.
    When their numbers dwindled from 50 to 8, the other dwarves began to suspect Hungry

  4. #15334

    Re: Banks - Economy - Housing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Last Stand View Post
    Bad management - Like Children in a sweet shop taking money from German bankers.

    Bad business models

    Bonus culture - promoted unsustainable lending.

    Anything else?
    You might want to look at the date of the orginal post
    “Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances.”

  5. #15335
    Moderator Balla Boy's Avatar
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    Banks - Economy - Housing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Eamo View Post
    Equally amazing that he was allowed to stay in the house over an extra year so his kid's LC studies at the private school across the road weren't interrupted (based on a radio report today-I know it seems scarcely credible).
    I'm reasonably amazed that a 63 year old could be sitting on a 9 million mortgage. Frankly, at that station in life you've either got that sort of cash or you haven't. What was the plan? 2 million a year?
    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy

  6. #15336
    Quote Originally Posted by fitzy73 View Post
    You might want to look at the date of the orginal post
    Was very intentional... Amazing really - 5 years of this.

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  8. #15337
    Comedy......

    14/08/2012 - 07:26:40
    Parents who feel they do not need child benefit could be given the chance to opt out of the payments.

    It is part of a round of proposals being drawn up at the Department of Social Protection which could also see wealthier parents hand the money back to the State.

    All families with children are currently entitled to receive the €140 child benefit payment each month.

    But as pressure mounts to cut costs, The Irish Times reports today that Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton wants to give people who do not feel they need the cash the option of handing it back, or opting out of the scheme.

    Officials at her department have been given the job of finding a way to put the provision in place.

    At the moment, 600,000 families around the country receive child benefit, at a cost to the state of €2bn every year.

  9. #15338
    In the Departure Lounge Old Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Cooper Clarke View Post

    Comedy......
    I'd be less charitable.

    Assinine.

    Time to lock Joan the Moan in a room with a bottle of gin (Gordons) some tonic (Schweppes) and a loaded revolver.

  10. #15339
    First round in the salvo to cut it. I wonder where they will draw the line? Maybe have a sliding scale?

    Just a hunch, but I reckon any family earning over €50k could see some of it cut. I'd imagine they will also want to do away with it completely for anyone earning over .. say €80k?
    Last edited by fitzy73; 14th-August-2012 at 09:39.
    “Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances.”

  11. #15340
    Quote Originally Posted by fitzy73 View Post
    First round int he salvo to cut it. I wonder where they will draw the line? Maybe have a sliding scale?

    Just a hunch, but I reckon any family earning over €50k could see some of it cut. I'd imagine they will also want to do away with it completely for anyone earning over .. say €80k?
    Agreed. It'll be hard on the lower paid though. Imagine 2 kids - €280 p.m. tax free. Must be worth near €4500 p.a. even for a lower rate taxpayer.

    p.s. How many different means tests are there already? I think I read somewhere c.12?

  12. #15341
    Quote Originally Posted by John Cooper Clarke View Post
    Agreed. It'll be hard on the lower paid though. Imagine 2 kids - €280 p.m. tax free. Must be worth near €4500 p.a. even for a lower rate taxpayer.

    p.s. How many different means tests are there already? I think I read somewhere c.12?
    I imagine if it is cut at around €50k there will be an increase in those no longer able to pay their mortgage.
    4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election

    "Frankfurts way or Labours way."

    28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty

    "A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."

  13. #15342
    In the Departure Lounge Old Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Cooper Clarke View Post

    p.s. How many different means tests are there already? I think I read somewhere c.12?
    (Before Bozo Lenihan lured me into taking early retirement, I was working on rationalising the following: )


    Means Testing is a necessary procedure carried out in order to validate entitlement to various state and local authority schemes. Means information gathered usually relates to an applicant's financial status at a particular point in time. Accordingly, subsequent applications generally result in a requirement for a fresh assessment of means to establish the up to date financial status of the applicant.


    The examination identified 42 means tested schemes, twenty of which are administered by either the Department of Social Welfare (DSW) or the health boards. These twenty schemes account for the bulk of expenditure on all means tested schemes and the majority of means tests themselves.


    It is estimated that the annual cost to DSW of staff involved in the administration of means testing is £4.4m. The annual cost of health board administration of means testing was estimated at £9.7m. In the case of local authorities, the annual cost of staff involved in means testing differential rent claimants was estimated at £1m

    http://audgen.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?Doc...1+January+2012

  14. #15343
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Dog View Post
    (Before Bozo Lernihan lured me into taking early retirement, I was working on rationalising the following


    Means Testing is a necessary procedure carried out in order to validate entitlement to various state and local authority schemes. Means information gathered usually relates to an applicant's financial status at a particular point in time. Accordingly, subsequent applications generally result in a requirement for a fresh assessment of means to establish the up to date financial status of the applicant.


    The examination identified 42 means tested schemes, twenty of which are administered by either the Department of Social Welfare (DSW) or the health boards. These twenty schemes account for the bulk of expenditure on all means tested schemes and the majority of means tests themselves.


    It is estimated that the annual cost to DSW of staff involved in the administration of means testing is £4.4m. The annual cost of health board administration of means testing was estimated at £9.7m. In the case of local authorities, the annual cost of staff involved in means testing differential rent claimants was estimated at £1m

    http://audgen.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?Doc...1+January+2012
    42. Of course. Thanks Douglas Adams!

  15. #15344
    Top banker puts himself first in queue for repayment
    By Donal O'Donovan
    Thursday August 16 2012


    A senior Irish banker made sure he was personally at the front of the queue to be repaid by a property company with debts to both himself and his then employer, Irish Nationwide Building Society (INBS), the Irish Independent has learned.


    At the time Peter Malbasha, of Glebe House, Ballivor, Co Meath, was employed by INBS as a loan recovery manager. He is now a senior official at NAMA.


    Documents seen by the Irish Independent show that in July 2009 Mr Malbasha secured a charge over assets owned by Eatonbrook Developments, a property developer with debts to both the bank and Mr Malbasha. Mr Malbasha was employed by INBS from August 2008 to April 2010.


    In July 2009, he registered a "fixed charge" over a mortgage-free property at Glebe, Rathmolyon, Co Meath owned by Eatonbrook. Mr Malbasha had previously worked for its sister company Lark Developments.


    The charge secures any debts owed to Mr Malbasha by Lark, Eatonbrook or the owner of the companies, Anthony Murray.


    The most recent company accounts filed for the business show Eatonbrook owed banks €4m at the end of 2009, with INBS understood to have been the main lender.


    The case dates back to the period before INBS was nationalised with a €5.4bn taxpayer-funded rescue.


    A charge works like a mortgage, it means that if the company failed to pay off its debt to Mr Malbasha, he would be entitled to the property instead.


    Having a charge over an asset means a creditor goes to the top of the queue to be repaid if a business fails.


    Given his employment at the time, the case raises serious questions about the risk of conflicts of interest where former property executives, such as Mr Malbasha, are employed as part of the effort to recover debts from bust developers.


    Mr Malbasha could not be reached for comment yesterday.


    Eatonbrook Developments went into liquidation in 2011.


    Lark Developments was placed into receivership in February 2010 by Anglo Irish Bank.


    Anglo and INBS were combined to form Irish Bank Resolution Corp (IBRC), a state- controlled bank. A spokesman for IBRC said the bank could not comment on the case.


    It's understood IBRC only learned of the charge registered by Mr Malbasha against Eatonbrook after he had left INBS to join NAMA, where he is now a senior official.


    Under the NAMA Act, employees must supply a statement of interests, assets and liabilities to NAMA chief executive Brendan McDonagh.


    NAMA is obliged by law to only hire staff who have "no material conflict of interest, whether actual or potential".


    - Donal O'Donovan


    Irish Independent
    4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election

    "Frankfurts way or Labours way."

    28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty

    "A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."

  16. #15345
    Leader of the Red Hordes Eamo's Avatar
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    Why isn't NAMA subject to limited FOI? It should be easy enough to exempt market sensitive info erring on the side of caution toward such.
    I believe that all government is evil, and that trying to improve it is largely a waste of time.
    HL Mencken

  17. #15346
    Munster Praetorian Guard paki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eamo View Post
    Why isn't NAMA subject to limited FOI? It should be easy enough to exempt market sensitive info erring on the side of caution toward such.
    Maybe because the "leaders" that set it up know so little about the subject matter that they would have granted a wizarding licence to NAMA if their "expert advisors" had deemed it necessary to do so?
    Biffo ate my future.

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  19. #15347

  20. #15348
    Some preliminary mutterings on the new housing tax. Using a valauation basis will hurt, but I can't think of any fairer way.....

    GOVERNMENT plans to introduce a "value-based" property tax have been attacked by leading figures across the political and economic spectrum, who warn of a looming "fiasco" that will penalise Dublin homeowners hardest.
    Under the plan, the new property tax regime would see the owner of an average four bed semi-detached house in Dublin paying €897 a year while the owner of an equivalent house in the midlands would pay just €375......

  21. #15349
    Leader of the Red Hordes
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Cooper Clarke View Post
    Some preliminary mutterings on the new housing tax. Using a valauation basis will hurt, but I can't think of any fairer way.....

    GOVERNMENT plans to introduce a "value-based" property tax have been attacked by leading figures across the political and economic spectrum, who warn of a looming "fiasco" that will penalise Dublin homeowners hardest.
    Under the plan, the new property tax regime would see the owner of an average four bed semi-detached house in Dublin paying €897 a year while the owner of an equivalent house in the midlands would pay just €375......
    Given all the difficulties there were with the €100 household charge the inner Government are going to have difficulty in getting the cabinet in general to support this measure, never mind getting their back bench TD's to support it or the general public to pay it.

    This will destroy Labour support with Sinn Fein benefiting which is not an appealing prospect.
    o

  22. #15350
    Quote Originally Posted by glorob View Post
    Given all the difficulties there were with the €100 household charge the inner Government are going to have difficulty in getting the cabinet in general to support this measure, never mind getting their back bench TD's to support it or the general public to pay it.

    This will destroy Labour support with Sinn Fein benefiting which is not an appealing prospect.
    o
    I agree but Europe are calling the shots now, irrespective of who is nominally in power.

  23. #15351
    Pride+Honesty cromulence Cowboy's Avatar
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    Banks - Economy - Housing thread

    What are the pros and cons of a value based tax system as opposed to a floor area based system?

    Would have thought that an area based system would have been fairer? And not impacted the housing values as significantly either? This could depress the Market still further
    I am the million man.

  24. #15352
    Leader of the Red Hordes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowboy View Post
    What are the pros and cons of a value based tax system as opposed to a floor area based system?

    Would have thought that an area based system would have been fairer? And not impacted the housing values as significantly either? This could depress the Market still further
    There is no "could" about it. A property tax of any form will depress the market further.

  25. #15353
    Admiral of the Fleet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowboy View Post
    What are the pros and cons of a value based tax system as opposed to a floor area based system?

    Would have thought that an area based system would have been fairer? And not impacted the housing values as significantly either? This could depress the Market still further
    Valuing a property is both costly in itself and open to variation. There is also the issue of a lack of a reliable database on ownership or occupancy. This is not going to be easy to implement and it's going to hurt most where it's needed least (families with kids and the elderly). It's also going to be another cause of social unrest (á la Poll Tax...).

  26. #15354
    Quote Originally Posted by John Cooper Clarke View Post
    I agree but Europe are calling the shots now, irrespective of who is nominally in power.
    Nope your wrong Europe might call what the account needs to balance to but it is our own bright sparks making the decisions - god help us. Our leaders blaming it on Europe tbh is more then pathetic.
    4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election

    "Frankfurts way or Labours way."

    28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty

    "A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."

  27. #15355
    Quote Originally Posted by McCloud View Post
    Nope your wrong Europe might call what the account needs to balance to but it is our own bright sparks making the decisions - god help us. Our leaders blaming it on Europe tbh is more then pathetic.
    They can't buy a loaf of bread without prior agreement from the Troika......

    GOVERNMENT plans to introduce a "value-based" property tax have been attacked by leading figures across the political and economic spectrum, who warn of a looming "fiasco" that will penalise Dublin homeowners hardest.
    Under the plan, the new property tax regime would see the owner of an average four bed semi-detached house in Dublin paying €897 a year while the owner of an equivalent house in the midlands would pay just €375.
    Even within Dublin, the average southside householder will have to pay twice as much as the average northsider, based on current Myhome.ie property valuations and calculations applied by the ESRI.
    The Government plans to introduce the tax in December's Budget, according to a submission to the EU/IMF/ECB troika, which was posted on the Department of Finance's website on Friday......

  28. #15356
    I cant afford to pay any more.Its either pay the tax man or the mortgage. I have nothing more to give.

  29. #15357
    Leader of the Red Hordes
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    Obviously somebody is looking on the bright side of life as the latest KBC survey reports that Irish consumer sentiment improves reaching its highest level in 5 years.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking26.html

    Is the outlook more positive or are people engaging in wishful thinking?

  30. #15358
    Leader of the Red Hordes
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    Banks - Economy - Housing thread

    Wait until the budget and it will plummet again when the government steals more of our cash via tax increases.

  31. #15359
    Quote Originally Posted by glorob View Post
    Obviously somebody is looking on the bright side of life as the latest KBC survey reports that Irish consumer sentiment improves reaching its highest level in 5 years.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking26.html

    Is the outlook more positive or are people engaging in wishful thinking?
    Wishful thinking I suspect or maybe they were scared of being accused of talking down the economy. Anyway with the governments latest kite flying on the property tax I'd expect the positive will hit negative once Septembers sentiment is reviewed.
    4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election

    "Frankfurts way or Labours way."

    28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty

    "A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."

  32. #15360
    Leaked document about what's coming down the line. The Memo from pg 55 onwards is the real meat and bones, and lays out exactly what the Troika expect Enda and Mr Noonan to deliver.

    It isn't pretty.

    http://thestory.ie/2012/08/29/europe...medium=twitter
    “Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances.”

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