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Thread: Banks - Economy - Housing thread

  1. #15001
    Admiral of the Fleet blackwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Cooper Clarke View Post
    An Irish Independent investigation can reveal how banks will only agree to change the existing conditions if homeowners:
    - Shop in discount stores like Aldi or Lidl instead of local shops or supermarket chains seen as more expensive.
    - Change health insurance provider or drop down to a cheaper plan.
    - Cut out extra sports or movie packages from their satellite or cable television services.
    - Secure a reduction in other loan repayments before coming to the bank for help.
    - Take children out of private, fee-paying schools.
    Seems sensible to me.

    Children can, and probably should, be put on lower health plans. I got rid of Sky Sports and Movies, saving €480/yr.

    As usual, the Indo headline stokes up the emotion......
    "Playing against ROG, your big game plan is to try and pressure him but he’d dump it off to Wally and next thing you’re five metres behind the gain line because he was an absolute freak." Rory Best, Irish Examiner, May 2012

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  3. #15002
    Sin Binned
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    Absolutely. Cutting your cloth is alien to a lot of Irish people.

  4. #15003
    Admiral of the Fleet Boo-boo's Avatar
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    Iceland regains investment rating

    Monday, February 20 08:18:37
    International ratings agency Fitch has raised Iceland's credit rating by one notch, from BB+ status to BBB-. This gives the distressed country potential access to the international investment community once again. The agency said that the outlook is now stable for Iceland, and that its decision "reflects the progress that has been made in restoring macroeconomic stability, pushing ahead with structural reform and rebuilding the country's creditworthiness".
    Iceland made a decision two years ago to force bondholders to pay for the banking system's collapse. Fitch noted that the country had successfully made it through an economic reform programme drawn up with the IMF.
    Valuable Lesson 1: Perpignan. hanging over a balcony, Me: "...at least we'll have the losing bonus point"
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  5. #15004
    Great Chamberlain of the Red Empire Cowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boo-boo View Post
    Iceland regains investment rating

    Monday, February 20 08:18:37
    International ratings agency Fitch has raised Iceland's credit rating by one notch, from BB+ status to BBB-. This gives the distressed country potential access to the international investment community once again. The agency said that the outlook is now stable for Iceland, and that its decision "reflects the progress that has been made in restoring macroeconomic stability, pushing ahead with structural reform and rebuilding the country's creditworthiness".
    Iceland made a decision two years ago to force bondholders to pay for the banking system's collapse. Fitch noted that the country had successfully made it through an economic reform programme drawn up with the IMF.

    Far away hills are green and all that but reading this feels like a right kick in the balls compared to our recovery 'plan'
    I am the million man.

  6. #15005
    Quote Originally Posted by blackwarrior View Post
    Seems sensible to me.

    Children can, and probably should, be put on lower health plans. I got rid of Sky Sports and Movies, saving €480/yr.

    As usual, the Indo headline stokes up the emotion......
    Exactly, if you took out a mortgage and you are paying Rupert Murdoch before paying for the roof over your childrens' head then you need to be told to cop the **** on, somebody has to tell them. We are still living with the entitlement culture of the celtic tiger. It's like when you see the picture of the sad social welfare face on the front of the newpaper bemoaning what everybody else did to them and you can see the SKY+ box, WII and 40" plasma in the background
    "Everything good about Ireland can be found in County Cork"....Lonely Planet Guide 2012

  7. #15006
    Leader of the Red Hordes Stanley's Avatar
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    The Irish Times - Tuesday, February 21, 2012
    Bank alleges property transfer was fraud to frustrate €2.5m judgment

    MARY CAROLAN
    ACC BANK has secured an order for the fast-tracking of proceedings aimed at setting aside the alleged fraudulent transfer of property by a mother to her two sons in an alleged effort to frustrate a €2.5 million judgment obtained against her.
    The bank’s proceedings against Eileen Daly and her sons Ian and Stephen were transferred to the Commercial Court yesterday and adjourned to next month.
    Ms Daly’s ex-husband James Leonard Daly – otherwise James Daly, Shay Daly and Séamus Daly – is being separately pursued by ACC for €2.5 million and by the Revenue for €2 million.
    Ms Daly and her sons had opposed the case being heard by Mr Justice Peter Kelly arising from comments he made during the lengthy cross-examination of Mr Daly in separate proceedings, including that Mr Daly had given “downright dishonest” evidence concerning property transactions and other matters.
    A warrant was issued for Mr Daly, a former tax inspector, of Kinvara, Woodleigh Park, Model Farm Road, Cork, after he failed to turn up at the Commercial Court on February 3rd for continuing cross-examination about his assets. Mr Daly disappeared after allegedly seeking that same day to transfer about €450,000 into a Spanish bank account.
    Ms Daly and her sons also complained yesterday that the judge, in the course of a separate lengthy cross-examination of Ms Daly about a series of transactions, had suggested various transactions appeared to be contrived.
    Lyndon MacCann SC, for ACC, argued there was no evidence whatsoever of objective bias by the judge and urged the case be fast-tracked in the Commercial Court.
    Ruling on the matter, the judge found the claims of objective bias were “groundless” and unsupported by evidence and he also referred to a number of legal decisions on the issue of objective bias.
    Mr Justice Kelly noted one of the complaints was about his description of Shay Daly’s evidence as downright dishonest, but Shay Daly was not a party to the bank’s proceedings against his wife and sons.
    The judge said his comment to Ms Daly concerning transactions appearing to be “contrived” was not a “conclusion” on the evidence. Rather, it was an “observation” made when he had heard evidence over days and in the context of a strange situation where properties had been gifted by Mr Daly to Ms Daly when they were separated and later divorced and their children being also brought into it.
    The case arose after Eileen Daly consented to judgment in May 2010 for some €2.6 million against her over unpaid loans advanced by ACC to her, Mr Daly and another man.
    ACC claims Ms Daly fraudulently transferred her home, plus shares, to her sons some 14 days after it issued its proceedings against her so as to defeat its claim, but she has denied that. Her sons have also denied the claims.




    When one reads this and takes into account that James/Shay/Seamus Daly is a former Tax Inspector it becomes obvious he is trying to use every stroke he has experienced to pull the wool over the Courts but as we wll know now Judge Peter Kelly is not a man to be taken lightly.

    When this is all over the Govt/Rev should have a serious look at Mr.Daly's finances and question if he is entitled to a pension on the basis of his behaviour, who knows perhaps re-examine his own tax returns.

  8. #15007
    Munster Praetorian Guard bugler's Avatar
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    Well, debt forgiveness was demanded...

    http://www.independent.ie/business/p...t-3025301.html

    Mortgage hike threat to cushion bank debt

    THOUSANDS of homeowners face higher mortgage repayments because of new personal insolvency rules, it emerged last night.
    The new rules mean some of the most hard-pressed households will get part of their mortgage debt written off.
    But other customers face the prospect of higher interest rates on their mortgages, as banks cushion themselves against the risk of these losses.
    Any rise in rates would hit those customers on variable mortgages, while people with tracker mortgages would not be affected.
    Bank of Ireland boss Richie Boucher yesterday admitted he was looking at raising the interest rates on home loans to compensate for this added "risk".
    He said the new insolvency laws, due later this year, could mark a "fundamental" change in the playing field for banks and make mortgage lending more risky.
    "We price for risk," he said, implying that the cost could be passed on to customers in the form of higher interest rates.
    It would mean that the bank increases its variable interest rate for existing customers, or charges a higher rate to new borrowers -- potentially putting the bailed-out bank on a collision course with the Government.
    It will be no surprise to see rates go up in 2012 and beyond, which will apply more downward pressure on house prices as mortgages become more expensive and less attractive.

    How will variable mortgage holders, not in arrears and paying up increasing amounts to service their debt, feel about the debt-writedown brigade?
    How will the government spin the Banks giving them the two fingers on this issue (again), and raising rates without even the pretence of an ECB hike to fall back on?

  9. #15008
    Bank scare tactics the cost of any loss due to mortgage right offs was factored into what funding they were given to dig them out of the hole they dug themselves. So the banks took that money and now are not willing to give it out with charging other mortgage holders for doing it. Any bank that tries that stunt should be told by it's customers that they are moving their current / savings account to some other institute.

    BTW how come rich Richie is still around? Joined BoI 2003 seems the banks are willing to 'price to risk' but not willing to 'price for responsibility'......

    Richie takes home €657,000.00 per annum fecking joke.
    4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election

    "Frankfurts way or Labours way."

    28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty

    "A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."

  10. #15009
    Admiral of the Fleet blackwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McCloud View Post
    BTW how come rich Richie is still around?

    Richie takes home €657,000.00 per annum fecking joke.
    Richie Boucher has got to be the most boring interviewee in the financial world ever. Anyone worse to listen to?
    "Playing against ROG, your big game plan is to try and pressure him but he’d dump it off to Wally and next thing you’re five metres behind the gain line because he was an absolute freak." Rory Best, Irish Examiner, May 2012

  11. #15010
    Protest group prevents home repossession

    By Jennifer HoughWednesday, February 22, 2012A county sheriff has been prevented from repossessing a home on behalf of a bank in Laois by a nationwide organisation set up to stop the eviction of people and families from their homes.In a stand-off with the sheriff, who came to the property in Mountrath, about 30 people from the Anti-Eviction Taskforce stood firm and did not allow the court-ordered repossession to take place.

    The group claims the sheriff was acting unlawfully as the family home is protected under the Constitution.

    Patrick Grant, a spokesman for the group, said they had been made aware that the repossession was going to take place and so "put a call out" for people to help stop it.

    "A man contacted us to tell us the bank was coming to repossess his home. We put a call out for help and about 30 people responded. The county sheriff arrived and was refused entry. They will turn up again we presume, but we are determined that this person will not be evicted and we will respond every time."

    Mr Grant said if the house is eventually repossessed, the group will take it back again.

    "The people who live in this house have been threatened with repossession for eight months, it is a very stressful situation. The aim of the taskforce is to set up a network in every county in Ireland ready to come to the aid of anyone in the locality who is threatened with or in the process of being evicted."

    Mr Grant said the group "intends to make its presence felt" at the Allsop Space homes auction on Mar 1 in the Shelbourne Hotel.

    Although not directly repossessed, at last November’s auction, 75% of the properties were being sold by receivers with a further two being sold by liquidators. According to Allsop’s, next week’s auction will see 70 of 100 properties being sold by receivers.

    "The continued apathy and procrastination of the Government in dealing with the crisis has ignited our movement," said Mr Grant.

    "The tremendous work being done by New Beginnings, The People’s Association Watchdog, Defend Our Homes League and Irish Homeowners Unite is being ignored and given nothing more than a glancing nod of recognition by the Government, while Ireland is sinking deeper into a quagmire of misery and socioeconomic disaster."

    One man, Patrick, who is being assisted by the group, said that until two years ago he had been self-employed and was employing 14 others.

    "In 2008 I believed that if I didn’t get on the housing ladder now, I never would as prices were increasing by the day, I still couldn’t afford a house in Dublin but I could at least get a house with easy access to the city via a motorway. The house I chose cost €315,000, very cheap for the time, and I received a mortgage of €260,000, the rest of the money I had saved up.

    "I am in arrears with my mortgage but I have absolutely no intention of giving up my home. The banks did not invest any actual money in my home, they merely traded upon my signature which they then sold on."


    Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland...#ixzz1n6Ii2hYA
    4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election

    "Frankfurts way or Labours way."

    28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty

    "A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."

  12. #15011
    This is a video of the Laois incident McCloud mentions above, posted on youtube.

    “People are broad-minded. They'll accept the fact that a person can be an alcoholic, a dope fiend, a wife beater and even a newspaperman, but if a man doesn't drive, there's something wrong with him.” - Art Buchwald

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  14. #15012
    Great Chamberlain of the Red Empire Miguel Sanchez's Avatar
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    They'll simply perfect their possession order, and will return with sufficient backup to execute it.

  15. #15013
    David McWilliams: Illusion of Greek bailout is Europe's dirty little secret
    By David McWilliams
    Wednesday February 22 2012




    Sigmund Freud once noted that: "Illusions commend themselves to us because they save us pain and allow us to enjoy pleasure instead. We must therefore accept it without complaint when they sometimes collide with a bit of reality against which they are dashed to pieces."




    Europe and the EU are soon to go through one of those 'collisions with reality'. The reality of the latest deal in Greece is that it drives the Greeks deeper into the mire and as the economy there contracts yet more, the wheels of this deal will fall off.




    Before we go into what the deal means for us, let's examine the latest illusion. Last year the illusion was that 'austerity creates growth'. The 6pc contraction in the Greek economy in the final quarter put paid to that canard. As does our rising insolvency and mortgage arrears data here.




    The latest illusion that the EU has now come up with is that '120' is the new '60'. A debt/GDP ratio of 120pc is now regarded as sustainable. A few weeks ago during agreement of the fiscal compact, a debt ratio of 60pc was regarded as the sustainable target. Now we know -- well, for Greece at least -- 120pc is the new 60pc.




    One has to wonder is the new target set at 120pc of GDP because that's where Italy and Belgium are right now and to suggest that this was anything other that a good outcome for Greece might shine the light on these other outliers?




    Whatever the reason, what is interesting for Ireland is that private bondholders took a 53pc haircut on their holdings. They have been burnt. It is estimated that the ECB owns up to €55bn of these Greek bonds, which it bought at a discount. Obviously because it didn't buy these bonds at face value, the loss the ECB will take will be less than 50pc but it is interesting in itself.




    For Ireland, this means that we will get a deal on bank debt most definitely. It might take time because the last thing the ECB wants is a queue of 'me too' demands from Ireland and Portugal. But it is clear that our hand has been strengthened, if we decide to play it.




    But just in case you think this is a victory for the citizen, let's examine in a bit more detail how it works. There will be no default. Greece will be given a €130bn loan. With that loan it will pay out €100bn to bondholders, who will have seen their bonds fall 53pc in value. After the penal interest Greece has paid on these bonds already, we still see an insolvent country paying bondholders 50pc of face value when they should be getting nothing.




    So Greece gets €100bn written off, but borrows €130bn in order to achieve this, so it is still borrowing more making its overall debt not better but worse in absolute terms.




    Now it needs to grow to bring these figures down and that is going to be impossible. So we are going to be back to square one in a few years except for one crucial thing.




    After all this is done, private creditors to Greece will have been paid by European public money stumped up by the taxpayers of other European countries. The banks have been bailed out again. Without help they would have got nothing. They now get 50pc of their worthless holdings and the subsidy comes from the taxpayer.




    The illusion of a great deal was exemplified by Jean-Claude Juncker, the chair of the meetings of eurozone finance ministers, who said that the Greek debt deal "will preserve the financial stability of Greece".




    It will do no such thing. And Mr Juncker knows it.




    According to Bill Bonner at the wonderful www.dailyreckoning.com: "A 10-page 'strictly confidential' report on the country's debt projections prepared for eurozone leaders warns that the principles of the new deal will (a) cause debt levels to rise by further weakening the Greek economy and (b) scare off future bond market funding."




    The report also reveals that Greek debt could still be at 160pc of GDP by 2020 and that it could require another €245bn in bailout funding.




    It concluded: "Prolonged financial support on appropriate terms by the official sector may be necessary."




    So let's go back to Freud. Why would Europe's financial and political elites insist the deal is sound when they know it's not? The reason goes back to the dirty little secret. The 'bailout' of Greece is really a bailout of eurozone banks.




    But they can't say that, so they maintain the illusion of success because, as Freud said, "it saves us pain" and obviously the collision has been postponed for a little while more.




    As this column has said many times before, you don't make a balance sheet with too much debt better by adding more debt; you fix it with less debt.




    Greece is not making progress on this basis. All it is doing is incurring new debt to retire old debt .




    Contrast this with Iceland. In the same week as the eyes of the EU were focused on Greece, Iceland -- a country which in 2008 suffered a monumental crash -- is now recovering strongly.




    It has done exactly what economic mainstream thinking would advise. It dropped its currency by over 40pc to make itself more competitive and mainly to choke off unnecessary imports. It defaulted on its bank debt by simply telling the creditors that there was no cash and they could take equity in the banks if they wanted.




    So it devalued and defaulted and, far from the markets punishing Iceland, the markets rewarded them. Iceland is now borrowing again, the economy is growing, inflation has fallen and there has been large-scale mortgage debt relief. Crucially, unemployment is now at 6pc and falling. And it is running at 6pc of GDP budget deficit, borrowing from abroad and at home to do so. Who says people won't lend? Of course they will, because the debt default means that the balance sheet is fixed.




    The Icelanders took control of the situation and did things their way. They were rewarded. They didn't try to be 'best in class', but laid out things as they were to the creditors. The markets moved on. They would do the same here.




    Make no mistake, the way mortgage arrears are rising here and the way companies are going to the wall due to their debt burden, huge debt deals will have to be done here.




    It's just a matter of when, not if. Greece shows us how not to do things. When it comes to debt, Iceland gives us a roadmap.




    www.davidmcwilliams.ie


    - David McWilliams


    Irish Independent
    4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election

    "Frankfurts way or Labours way."

    28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty

    "A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."

  16. #15014
    Admiral of the Fleet Valencia's Avatar
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    Oh FFS!! We're doomed, doomed I tell ya
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  17. #15015
    Fish Poaching Patrol Benji's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Cooper Clarke View Post
    They'll simply perfect their possession order, and will return with sufficient backup to execute it.
    J.C.C Its not always that clear cut with the banks. Ive a mate who is up in court over two loans.
    Both Boi and their paperwork was very poor, The loan agreement on one missing some vital details which isnt clear as too the parties and terms involved.
    The second of the loans he owes yes but in their paperwork they are chasing a repayment of a load that has been paid back. They are all mixed up. He doesnt have the funds to pay back the money anyway.

    Times were mad and they gave out money on a whim and the paperwork wasnt looked after. If your getting a loan now its all well documented.

    When people ask themselves why hasnt the banks gone after some of the big boys Ive a feeling that the banks paperwork is so poor that it could be thrown out.
    When their numbers dwindled from 50 to 8, the other dwarves began to suspect Hungry

  18. #15016
    Great Chamberlain of the Red Empire Miguel Sanchez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    J.C.C Its not always that clear cut with the banks. Ive a mate who is up in court over two loans.
    Both Boi and their paperwork was very poor, The loan agreement on one missing some vital details which isnt clear as too the parties and terms involved.
    The second of the loans he owes yes but in their paperwork they are chasing a repayment of a load that has been paid back. They are all mixed up. He doesnt have the funds to pay back the money anyway.

    Times were mad and they gave out money on a whim and the paperwork wasnt looked after. If your getting a loan now its all well documented.

    When people ask themselves why hasnt the banks gone after some of the big boys Ive a feeling that the banks paperwork is so poor that it could be thrown out.
    If their security and paperwork doesn't add up they are stuffed. Quite rightly too. Unfortunately that'll mean it becomes a bad debt, and guess who pays for those ultimately?

  19. #15017
    Fish Poaching Patrol Benji's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Cooper Clarke View Post
    If their security and paperwork doesn't add up they are stuffed. Quite rightly too. Unfortunately that'll mean it becomes a bad debt, and guess who pays for those ultimately?
    Its for maybe 30 k that he cant afford to pay or come to an arrangement, He employs around 8 people but things are so tight and there is no cash, His one of the good ones just unlucky with one or two decisions.

    His looking to get a better deal done on whats owed but their pushing. He will pay but its the terms his after
    When their numbers dwindled from 50 to 8, the other dwarves began to suspect Hungry

  20. #15018
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    The land of the financially blind

    February 27, 2012

    Posted in Articles | Sunday Business Post by David McWilliams




    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.” So said Erasmus – and who are we to argue with the great man? Erasmus spent his life following his own independent path, eschewing the easy life of the tenured academic herd. Instead, he constantly questioned his own Church at a time when questioning the Church was a very dangerous thing to do.


    Sometimes it feels like Ireland is the land of the blind, particularly when it comes to finance – although it has been a long time since questioning the finance industry was a dangerous thing to do. It is worth scrutinising the banks, particularly as they are being drip-fed huge quantities of cash by the ECB, yet precious little is reaching the real economy.

    One of the pieces of accepted wisdom in Ireland these days is that, because Bank of Ireland is the least worst bank in Ireland, it is therefore the best.

    Last week, it announced atrocious results, but the spin – accepted by the main media organs (from what I heard, but I am open to being corrected) – was that these were the smallest losses in a few years and therefore they were good results. Quite the leap, don’t you think?

    The really useful thing about a bank report is that it gives you a snapshot of where we are. Let’s have a look at what they didn’t tell us in the press release.

    Over 55 per cent of Bank of Ireland’s total mortgages are in negative equity. Instead of using the term billions, let’s describe the amount in millions of euro. Bank of Ireland’s mortgage lending book is €27 thousand million. This means that Bank of Ireland has lent out €27 thousand million to people to buy houses.

    Of this figure, €15,384 million euro of loans are in negative equity. Take that in for a second.
    It’s also revealing to examine the loan-to-value ratio of each mortgage. If, for example, the loan-to-value is less than 50 per cent, that is good. It means that the loan outstanding is less than 50 per cent. So if a house is worth €200,000, the loan is under €100,000.

    The report shows that only 14 per cent of Bank of Ireland’s total owner-occupier mortgage book is in such a healthy situation. When we examine its buy-to-let portfolio, we see that only 6 per cent of these mortgages are in such a healthy situation. In total, 12 per cent of mortgage holders have a ratio of less than 50 per cent.
    In all, just half of the Bank of Ireland’s residential owner-occupier mortgages are solvent. By solvent, I mean that the equity in the house covers the loans.
    When you look at its buy-to-let book, only 31 per cent are solvent. So, taken together, if Bank of Ireland were to sell this stuff today, only 45 per cent of its total loan book or €12,470 million of loans, would be solvent.

    Now, let’s look at the huge number of mortgages in negative equity. According to these results, 50 per cent of all houses are in negative equity – some worse than others.
    For example, 11 per cent of all of the Bank of Ireland’s owner-occupied homes are worth less than half what people paid for them.
    When it comes to buy-to-let, one in five properties are worth less than half what their “investors” paid for them. In total, just shy of 70 per cent of all buy-to-let mortgages are under water. This is extraordinary. This bank is insolvent. Yet its share price has trebled in the past few months.

    If its share price has gone up, then the conclusion must be that, bad and all as the situation is, the bank must have made ample provisions to cover all these losses just in case.
    After all, isn’t that why they were recapitalised with our money?
    Then tucked away at the back of the report, hidden behind all the glossy bits, are the really scary details about just how exposed the bank is.

    The table shows the provisions that the bank’s management has made against these huge potential losses on their mortgage book – half of which is technically insolvent.
    The management of Bank of Ireland has set aside €1,000 million on a loan book where €15,384 million of the loans are in negative equity. The bank’s management must be working on the basis of a gradual fall in the number of people in arrears and a quick and dramatic rise in the price of houses.
    But the opposite is the case.

    The latest data on arrears shows an increasing number of people falling behind in their payments.
    We also know that the pace of house price falls accelerated in the last few months of 2011. So if we stand back, we have the bank, which is being touted as the best of a bad lot, presiding over a loan book where 55 per cent of all mortgages are under water and it believes that only one in 15, or 6 per cent, of all of these will actually default. And this is the best of them.
    The land of the blind indeed.

  21. #15019
    irishtimes.com - Last Updated: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 12:39




    Fall in house prices accelerates
    CONOR POPE, Consumer Affairs Correspondent


    The average price of a house in Dublin fell by a dramatic 4 per cent in the last month of the year alone while prices across the State have continued their precipitious decline, according to the latest official figures from the Central Statistics Office (CSO).


    The monthly data will make for grim reading for anyone hoping that the bottom of the property market is in sight and the figures show that the decline in prices actually gathered pace in January


    The new data indicates that the cost of an average home in the Republic fell by 17.4 per cent in the 12 months to the end of last month. This figure compares with an annual rate of decline of 16.7 per cent in December and a fall of 10.7 per cent which the CSO recorded in the 12 months to the end of January 2011.


    Residential property prices across the State fell by an average of 1.9 per cent last month of January which compares with a monthly decline of 1.7 per cent which the CSO recorded in December and a decline of 1.1 per cent last January.


    Dublin property prices were worst hit and fell by 4.1 per cent last month. All told the price of residential property in the capital is now 21.1 per cent lower than it was a year ago.


    The price of residential properties across the rest of the Republic fell by 0.7 per cent in January, a similar rate of decline was recorded in January last year.


    House prices in Dublin are now 55 per cent lower than they were at their highest level in early 200 while apartments are 59 per cent lower than they were in February 2007.


    The fall in the price of residential properties outside of Dublin is somewhat lower at 43 per cent. Overall, the national index is now 48 per cent lower than at its highest in 2007.


    The comprehensive index, which is now widely considered to be the benchmark of property prices, gives detailed data by type of property and by location.


    According to a study by property website daft.ie which was published yesterday the majority of would-be buyers believe mortgage availability, the recession and unemployment will continue to have a negative impact on house prices in the coming year.
    4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election

    "Frankfurts way or Labours way."

    28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty

    "A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."

  22. #15020
    irishtimes.com - Last Updated: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 11:59




    Budget VAT hike sees retail sales fall by 3.7% in January
    SUZANNE LYNCH and PAMELA DUNCAN


    The volume of retail sales fell by 3.7 per cent in January, suggesting that consumers felt the pinch of VAT increases introduced in December’s budget.


    Figures released this morning by the Central Statistics Office show that the volume of retail sales was down 3.7 per cent month on month, while there was an annual decrease of 0.8 per cent.


    When motor sales are stripped out, the retail sales decreased by 1.6 per cent, compared to December 2011, with an annual decrease of 2.7 per cent.


    While sales in the motor trade saw the biggest drop – a fall of 21.3 per cent – department stores saw an 18.4 per cent decrease in the volume of goods sold on a monthly basis, suggesting that the annual January sales failed to lift consumer sentiment.


    The volume of electrical good sold was down 12 per cent, while clothing, footwear and textiles fell by 5.7 per cent. Some sectors experienced volume growth, with pharmaceutical, medical and cosmetic products sold in specialist stores up 4.1 per cent and food, beverages and tobacco in specialised stores up 2 per cent.


    The standard rate of VAT increased from 21 per cent to 23 per cent on January 1st, following changes announced in December's budget. As well as applying to a range of consumer goods, such as adult clothing and footwear, jewellery, cosmetics and households goods and furnishings, it also affects fees and services such as mobile phone and legal and accountancy services.


    The value of retail sales decreased by 3.7 per cent in January, compared with December, while there was an annual change of -0.3 per cent.


    Retail Excellence Ireland described the fall in retail sales returns as “very disappointing but not unexpected”. Its David Fitzsimons, said that Irish consumer confidence remained at a record low.


    “Fears over job security and continued austerity are weighing heavy on consumers minds. Retail Excellence Ireland members are reporting that the 2 per cent rise in the higher rate of VAT is depressing spending. If this trend continues, it looks probable that the Government may struggle to raise an additional €670 million from the 2 per cent increase in VAT rates,” he said.


    Meanwhile the ISME, the Irish Small & Medium Enterprises Association, said the Government must take the crisis in the retail trade more seriously given that it employs 262,000, almost 15 per cent of all jobs in the Economy and accounts for over 10 per cent of GDP.


    “Despite this importance, the Government's Action Plan for Jobs 'skated' over the sector with barely a mention and the 'actions' that were announced were so 'milk and watery' that they will have little or no effect on the sector. Where is the action on upward only rents, where is the action on rates, where is the Retail strategy group?”


    “High costs, inconsistent policies and VAT increases have led to consumer pessimism and reduced spending of 3.7 per cent in January, leading to a decline of well over 30 per cent in retail sales since 2008. This has led to 50,000 jobs lost in the sector and still Government pussyfoots around with a jobs plan which is 'all hat and no cattle," Mr Fielding said.


    IBEC said the figures highlighted a “pretty dismal” start to the year for Irish retailers and suggested many consumers had made purchases in November and December to avoid the January VAT hike.


    Director Stephen Lynam said that, despite relatively robust sales in November and December, consumers appear to have shunned the January sales.


    "Department stores were particularly badly affected, with sales falling by 18.4 per cent in the month; sales of electrical goods were down 12 per cent, while sales of clothing and footwear were down 5.7 per cent. Overall, retail sales are down by around 30 per cent compared with the boom era. Consumer sentiment is weak and the outlook remains uncertain.”


    “The high cost of rents, rates, tax and labour are causing retailers real difficulties and depressing consumer demand. Action is needed on all these fronts, including a review of VAT returns at the end of next month. If the Government's target is not met, as now seems likely, the 2 per cent increase should be reversed," Mr Lynam said.
    4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election

    "Frankfurts way or Labours way."

    28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty

    "A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."

  23. #15021
    Admiral of the Fleet rathbaner's Avatar
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    Please delete if posted already::


    22



    Family had €200k written off mortgage

    By Claire O’Sullivan
    Thursday, February 23, 2012
    A couple in mortgage arrears, whose bank wrote off €200,000 of their mortgage, say their story will "give hope" to homeowners in similar situations.
    The family, from Macroom, Co Cork, and their solicitor struck the deal with an American sub-prime lender. Their solicitor predicts that once the new personal insolvency laws come into place this summer, more banks will cut their losses rather than go down the pricey bankruptcy route.

    Greg O’Brien was a project manager with a construction firm until he lost his job in 2009. His wife Caitriona didn’t work outside the home and they had a €360,000 mortgage on a five-bedroomed home they had bought and renovated five years earlier.

    When Greg was made redundant, the family contacted their lender, GE Money, and restructured their loan so that they were paying interest only for 12 months.

    Greg says that unlike many other banks, GE Money did not harass them over their inability to repay the mortgage and were prepared to allow the family a further 12 months of interest-only payments in case their financial circumstances should improve.

    However, the stress wasn’t something Greg and his wife could live with and the couple wanted to sell up.

    "The worry became so much that we got to the point that the house didn’t mean anything more than just being bricks and mortar. We were beyond the point of the house meaning anything. We just wanted our family to be happy and safe again and, as long as the house was still hanging around our necks, that wouldn’t happen," said Greg.

    Greg and Caitriona began to comb the internet for solicitors with expertise in negative equity and stumbled upon Dublin-based firm, Anthony Joyce & Co. Unlike many solicitors in this area who help clients stay in their home, Mr Joyce specialises in helping clients get rid of both their debt and their house so they can begin debt-free lives.

    Early this month, he negotiated a deal for the Macroom family which — with the help of local auctioneer, Killian Lynch — saw them sell their former home for €160,000. The remaining €200,000 was written off by GE Money.

    The O’Briens are now renting a house, have set up a small business locally, and are much happier for it.

    "We just hope that our story might give hope to other people out there who have the worries that we had and who can’t yet get their head around the whole thing. So much stress has been taken out of our lives by selling up. My advice to anyone out there would be to contact a professional like Anthony. From the moment he got involved, he took over all correspondence and just dealt with everything. Our auctioneer Killian was also fantastic to deal with," he said.

    Mr Joyce said: "What we did here was really a "short sale". In the medium term, there will be much more of this. We expect the new insolvency legislation to be enacted by July, which will enable individuals to benefit from a user-friendly, three-year bankruptcy arrangement. The banks will come to realise sooner rather than later that sales of this nature make sense. The debt is simply not recoverable and it makes economic sense to get a lump sum now to mitigate the losses in respect of the property." &

    A spokesman for GE Money said they could not comment on individual cases and would not confirm if similar such deals had been struck in this country.
    For the over the hill and the past-it, nothing is impossible.

  24. #15022
    Money in bank is a better bet than property, warns expert
    By Charlie Weston Personal Finance Editor


    Thursday March 01 2012




    PRICES will have to fall further before it makes sense for people to invest in property.


    This is because investors can get a better return by putting money on deposit in a bank than they can earn in rent from investing in a buy-to-let house or apartment, according to a new analysis.


    The revelation comes ahead of today's Allsop auction of distressed properties. It features what has been described as 'Ireland's cheapest house' -- a cottage in Carrigallen, Co Leitrim, with a reserve price of €7,500.


    Bank of Ireland will have a stand at the auction in a bid to entice investors to take out mortgages with it. Some €52m worth of property has been sold at the four previous Allsop auctions and today's will be keenly watched.


    But an analysis by finance expert Karl Deeter and MyHome.ie shows that properties are still overvalued in many parts of the country.


    Mr Deeter said that properties would have to have a rental yield of at least 7.35pc to match a 4pc return from deposits. Permanent TSB, KBC Bank, Ulster Bank and Investec are among those offering 4pc or more for deposits.


    The rental yield is a percentage figure, arrived at by dividing the annual rental income by the purchase price. Dublin properties may be overvalued by 20pc, according to his analysis.


    Three-bed houses in the capital are currently selling for an average €258,400, according to MyHome.ie


    But this would need to fall to €190,000 before it would be worth buying a three-bed as an investment. Two-bed apartment prices would need to drop from €215,685 to €170,000 to be worthwhile, Mr Deeter said.


    Cork prices are overvalued by 28pc, implying that a three-bed house would need to fall from €205,135 to €136,000.


    Apartment


    A two-bed apartment would need to fall from €195,561 to €126,500.


    Galway prices would need to fall by 29pc and Limerick property was overvalued by 28pc, added Mr Deeter.


    Mr Deeter suggested the tax system should be used to further encourage investors to purchase property. This could include allowing those who invest in property to offset their taxes against expenses such as the household charge and the second-home property tax.


    Despite the need for greater price falls before investments become feasible, there were some signs that prices in built-up areas were bottoming out.


    Mr Deeter said that cities were likely to recover first, as long as rents stayed stable.


    - Charlie Weston Personal Finance Editor
    4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election

    "Frankfurts way or Labours way."

    28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty

    "A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."

  25. #15023
    Restore hurling to Birr Piquet's Avatar
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    Mr Deeter's Sums are seriously wrong.

    If a home is overvalued by 20% its price is 1.2 times what it should be. The house price quoted in Dublin is €258,400 If it is 20% overvalued, its "real" price is €215,333 not €190,000.

    Similarly, the two bed should be priced at €179,738, not €170,000

    In Cork his figures should be €160,262 not €136,000 and €152,782 not €126,500.

    In Galway and Limerick, He seems to be using "would need to fall by" and "is overvalued by" interchangably, although even allowing for this in his quoted figures makes no sense.

  26. #15024
    Admiral of the Fleet Boo-boo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piquet View Post
    Mr Deeter's Sums are seriously wrong.

    If a home is overvalued by 20% its price is 1.2 times what it should be. The house price quoted in Dublin is €258,400 If it is 20% overvalued, its "real" price is €215,333 not €190,000.

    Similarly, the two bed should be priced at €179,738, not €170,000

    In Cork his figures should be €160,262 not €136,000 and €152,782 not €126,500.

    In Galway and Limerick, He seems to be using "would need to fall by" and "is overvalued by" interchangably, although even allowing for this in his quoted figures makes no sense.
    I think the give away here is that he is a Financial advisor working in Ireland.
    Valuable Lesson 1: Perpignan. hanging over a balcony, Me: "...at least we'll have the losing bonus point"
    Secondrowgal: "It's not over yet!". Next: JJ crossing the whitewash. That'll learn me.

  27. #15025
    Reader of the Hed Lordes No. 16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piquet View Post
    Mr Deeter's Sums are seriously wrong.

    If a home is overvalued by 20% its price is 1.2 times what it should be. The house price quoted in Dublin is €258,400 If it is 20% overvalued, its "real" price is €215,333 not €190,000.

    Similarly, the two bed should be priced at €179,738, not €170,000

    In Cork his figures should be €160,262 not €136,000 and €152,782 not €126,500.

    In Galway and Limerick, He seems to be using "would need to fall by" and "is overvalued by" interchangably, although even allowing for this in his quoted figures makes no sense.
    Is it that simple? It's not what it should be valued at; rather, what would be a worthwhile price as an investment rental property - is what I took from it.

    "Mr Deeter said that properties would have to have a rental yield of at least 7.35pc to match a 4pc return from deposits...
    The rental yield is a percentage figure, arrived at by dividing the annual rental income by the purchase price."

    I was curious about the figures too and initially assumed that if 258,400 is 20% too high - take 20% off it to get 206,720 - but I see that's wrong too. Nonetheless - I think his figures take into account more than you have?

  28. #15026
    Leader of the Red Hordes bazzyg's Avatar
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    I see what Piquet is saying but I take the figures quoted as the price they need to be at to make them worthwhile for an investor to jump rather than leaving money on deposit in a bank.

  29. #15027
    Reader of the Hed Lordes No. 16's Avatar
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    irishtimes.com - Last Updated: Thursday, March 1, 2012, 14:19

    Donegal hotel goes for a €650,000 song



    Click image for larger version. 

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    The Sandhouse Hotel in Rossnowlagh, Co Donegal, which was bought today by its current manager.

    OIN BURKE-KENNEDY

    A 55-bedroom hotel overlooking Donegal Bay, which was once on the market for €4.5 million, has sold at an auction of distressed property for €650,000.
    The Sandhouse Hotel in the popular seaside resort of Rossnowlagh had been billed as the star lot in today’s Allsop/Space auction in Dublin’s Shelbourne Hotel.
    However, the hotel, which was put on the market by direction of its liquidator KPMG, attracted considerably less interest than expected.
    After a short bidding race, the property sold for its reserve price of €650,000, a fraction of what its former owners thought it was worth at the height of the boom.
    The picturesque property was bought by the hotel’s current manager Paul Diver, who has managed the hotel for the last 20 years. “I just can’t believe it. It’s a total adrenaline rush. It’s been a long, long road but we’ve made it.”
    When asked if he was surprised by the lack of interest, Mr Diver quipped: “No, I was delighted”
    The auction, which is the first of five planned Allsop/Space auctions scheduled for 2012, contained 100 lots of property, ranging from rural cottages to sleek city centre apartments.
    Organisers said they expected about 2,000 people to attend the event during the course of the day.
    About two-thirds of the properties are being sold by direction of receivers, reflecting the catastrophic collapse of Ireland’s once robust property sector. The remaining third have been put up for sale by private individuals.
    Director of auctions at Allsop/Space Robert Hoban said: “At every auction the percentage of private vendors is increasing as more and more people want to put their properties out on the open market.”
    On whether the auction reflected the open market value of Irish property, Mr Hoban said: “We don’t decide the sale price or value of the property, we let the punters decide where property value is and let them decide whether the market is going up or down.”
    Over four sales last year, Allsop/Space sold over €52 million worth of distressed property assets, about 92 per cent of the total lots for sale.
    Bank of Ireland had a stand the event today for the first time, offering mortgage applications to customers looking to bid at the auction.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...39.html?via=mr

  30. #15028
    Restore hurling to Birr Piquet's Avatar
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    I heard someone on RTE this morning saying that banks are losing money on Tracker Mortgages. How can this be? they borrow from the ECB at x % and lend out at x+1% to the customer. How are they losing on this?

  31. #15029
    Munster Praetorian Guard paki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piquet View Post
    I heard someone on RTE this morning saying that banks are losing money on Tracker Mortgages. How can this be? they borrow from the ECB at x % and lend out at x+1% to the customer. How are they losing on this?
    Banks do not fund themselves entirely at the ECB rate. In "normal" circumstances, banks would have financed themselves from a mixture of deposits, interbank lending and capital markets issues. With most of that "normal" funding unavailable now (or available at a much higher cost) and with the income from trackers at its effective lower bound, they are simply taking in less income than it costs them to rollover the financing.

    The ECB's LTRO money which is assumed to be given out at 1% is also not all that it seems. Once you apply haircuts to collateral and bear in mind that the ****ty banks are short on collateral anyway, it's far from a panacea.

    Hope that explains it in some way.
    Biffo ate my future.

  32. #15030
    AIB's plan to let go 2500 employees may be a tricky exercise

    http://www.independent.ie/business/i...n-3045039.html
    4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election

    "Frankfurts way or Labours way."

    28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty

    "A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."

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