Tourist told that Derry "does not exist"

[BOK]

No chance of Londonderry becoming part of the "Republic". Frankly it's one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read on this forum. Partition works just fine, if anything we should be rejoining The Union !

Rejoin the "union"?? We are already part of THE union, the European union. The only union that should matter in this part of the world in this day and age.

Who in the name of Christ do you think you are to have the audacity to bring the validity of our Republic into question? What very short memories some people have. People who were more than happy to call themselves members of the Irish republic during the height of the boom are now more than happy to turn their back on it in search of the BMW or the three holidays a year.

Were mistakes made? YES
Are we the people as much at fault as our leaders were? Damn f**king right we are!
Are we completely screwed? NO and we are a very long way from it.

One look at middle eastern countries like Syria, Libya is proof of that. Hell even a look at countries a lot closer to home like Greece and the rioting and violence on the streets of Madrid and London are even better proof that while things are undoubtedly tough here we are still damn f**king lucky.

I am sick to f**king death of people giving out and complaining about the situation here and choosing to continuously forget that this is a worldwide recession. We are not the only ones suffering. Even your precious "Union" isn't doing so good.

We have the situation in the north here which is both unique and tragic in equal measures. Thousands of lives have been lost on both sides. I have no problem with either side but for you to suggest we should rejoin the UK is both short sighted, insensitive and quite honestly just down right disrespectful on so many levels. This is not a mickey waving contest of who or which side is better.

The fact of the matter is history like the one between ourselves and Britain is complex and complicated and cant simply be forgotten about with a few Irish words from the queen. Ireland and Britain have a brilliant relationship now and long may it continue. But the only way for that relationship to continue to flourish and develop is as two independent nations working together with the rest of Europe for a greater European Union.

You or anyone else who suggests that the Republic should become part of the UK again is as narrow minded and as stuck in the past as someone who spends their whole time dreaming of a united Ireland. LET IT GO. The republic will never become part of the UK. We have relative peace on this Island and that is enough for now.

The EU should be the focus of all our attentions, not worrying about a smaller Union within that Union or weather the North should become part of the Republic. Whatever happens in the future will happen and as long as it is done peacefully and with the peoples will is all that really matters.

P.s. It is quite ironic you calling someone else a troll when you go of spouting something like "we should rejoin the union"! Grow the hell up and get your head out of the past.

[Old Dog]

Not patronising in the least OD. "lovely people"!!

Maybe it's time for you to get your irony detector recalibrated!

[Mack the Knife]

.

Who in the name of Christ do you think you are to have the audacity to bring the validity of our Republic into question? What very short memories some people have. People who were more than happy to call themselves members of the Irish republic during the height of the boom are now more than happy to turn their back on it in search of the BMW or the three holidays a year.

Were mistakes made? YES
Are we the people as much at fault as our leaders were? Damn f**king right we are!
Are we completely screwed? NO and we are a very long way from it. ?

One look at middle eastern countries like Syria, Libya is proof of that. Hell even a look at countries a lot closer to home like Greece and the rioting and violence on the streets of Madrid and London are even better proof that while things are undoubtedly tough here we are still damn f**king lucky.

I am sick to f**king death of people giving out and complaining about the situation here and choosing to continuously forget that this is a worldwide recession. We are not the only ones suffering. Even your precious "Union" isn't doing so good.

Well funny as a citizen of this so called Republic I thought I had every right to criticise if I so wish, so therefore you have failed the first test of being a Republican by questioning the right to free speech.
Now moving swiftly along to the meatier parts of your rant , how are we as responsible for this mess as our leaders ? It was our leaders along with their buddies in the banks and developer financiers who cheerleaded a false boom, who deliberately manipulated the property market ( and continue to do so, at least their trying,I don't think its working however) who convinced people we were the wealthiest country on earth, spent recklessly on vanity projects,gave tax relief to the wealthiest whilst all the time slashing public services. And to cover their tracks diluted the FOI to the point where its absolutely useless. I'm sick of you and your Bozo Lenihan type buddies spouting "we all partied" ****e !
This is also the Republic who put unmarried mothers in Magdalene Laundries , orchestrated forced adoptions of their babies and stood idly by whilst being abused by nuns and priests.
This is also the Republic that put thousands of children into "Reform Schools" for relatively minor incidents leaving them at the mercy of perverts in the religious orders. Of course the appalling circumstances that arose " was all of our fault" according to one of the Andrew sisters or some other Fianna Fail ****.

Of course it is a great source of amusement for me to see how convenient the concept of the "Border" or Northern Ireland being a part of the UK is for such great Irish Patriots and pillars of this Republic when the going gets tough. A lot of of convenient addresses being availed of and National Insurance numbers being applied for by one time proud irish nationalists these days.

To sum it all up in his acceptance speech even President Higgins acknowledged that this is not a real republic.

[BOK]

Well funny as a citizen of this so called Republic I thought I had every right to criticise if I so wish, so therefore you have failed the first test of being a Republican by questioning the right to free speech.
Now moving swiftly along to the meatier parts of your rant , how are we as responsible for this mess as our leaders ? It was our leaders along with their buddies in the banks and developer financiers who cheerleaded a false boom, who deliberately manipulated the property market ( and continue to do so, at least their trying,I don't think its working however) who convinced people we were the wealthiest country on earth, spent recklessly on vanity projects,gave tax relief to the wealthiest whilst all the time slashing public services. And to cover their tracks diluted the FOI to the point where its absolutely useless. I'm sick of you and your Bozo Lenihan type buddies spouting "we all partied" ****e !
This is also the Republic who put unmarried mothers in Magdalene Laundries , orchestrated forced adoptions of their babies and stood idly by whilst being abused by nuns and priests.
This is also the Republic that put thousands of children into "Reform Schools" for relatively minor incidents leaving them at the mercy of perverts in the religious orders. Of course the appalling circumstances that arose " was all of our fault" according to one of the Andrew sisters or some other Fianna Fail ****.

Of course it is a great source of amusement for me to see how convenient the concept of the "Border" or Northern Ireland being a part of the UK is for such great Irish Patriots and pillars of this Republic when the going gets tough. A lot of of convenient addresses being availed of and National Insurance numbers being applied for by one time proud irish nationalists these days.

To sum it all up in his acceptance speech even President Higgins acknowledged that this is not a real republic.

Your first mistake is wrongly assuming that I'm a FF voter! I am not a member or supporter of any political party on this island. I don't support party politics but that is not relevant to this argument and non of your business anyway.

Secondly people very conveniently forget the fact that they/we voted those "leaders" into power in the first place. You can also rubbish the notion that we all partied but the fact is we did. We all lost the plot a little. People spent ridiculous money on houses, cars, holidays etc etc etc... We had the mentality that it was a bottomless pit, the mentality of "shur whats the point in having money if you don't spend it?" Well a lot of those people (me included) would give anything to go back on those times and spend that money more wisely if at all. I think the "leaders"of that time should undoubtedly bare the brunt of the blame but there is no hiding the fact that we the people also played our part in both electing them and spending recklessly. We can't just keep shoving the blame onto the next fella and the next fella and the next fella. The sooner we accept our own mistakes and learn from them the sooner we will stop being so f**king bitter about everything and move on towards building a better future.

Thirdly every country has it's bleak past. From the slavery in America, the shameful things the British did, to things that happened in Spain, Italy etc etc.. Every country has shameful things in their past and we are no different. The things that happened in the laundries and the churches are so utterly despicable that it's hard to even think about it but the same carryings on happened in America and even the whole J Savile thing in the UK. Those dastardly things are vile acts done by human beings. The human race. It is a human problem NOT an exclusively Irish problem.

All I can gather from your posts is that you are a person that has lost faith in this country and it's people. Whatever glorious but false images you have of what life might be like in another country however is just that, false. Every country has it's problems. EVERY country. It is fine to look in on the UK or the US or wherever from the outside and think that it is a bed of roses in comparison to ours but the reality is that is not always the case. Don't forget many many people have come, and will continue to come, to this country for a better way of life just like many of us do so as well to the likes of Oz or wherever. Those trends come and go like tides. Ireland was bad, then good, then bad again. This is the case with every country.

I am sick of moaning b*****ds like you that do nothing but give out about Ireland and it's people. Cursing the bankers and politicians for all that is wrong in their life, too afraid to look within and take some responsibility for their own actions.

I am an Irish man and I am proud of that. I like everybody else am annoyed at our squandered wealth but continuing to be bitter about it will only bring yourself down, everybody around you down and ultimately make the challenge of moving forward and rebuilding a hell of a lot harder. For all the negatives that you and many others are so quick to point out there are a hell of a lot of good things that this country has done. From humanitarian aid, to simpler things like producing world renowned poets, musicians and even rugby teams.

We are a valid republic because we fought and earned it as much as any other but a lot more importantly we are as much a Republic as any other because we are as human as any other. Not good, not bad, just fecking human.

So stop making us out to be a joke or a disaster or the worst place in the world. I refuse to lose faith in the people of this island because I know what we are capable of and the only ones that will ultimately get us out of this mess is ourselves and when we do (and we will) I'll be content in myself for not turning my back on it like you appear to be doing now.

p.s. Your notion that anybody who has a positive attitude or isn't a bitter cranky old fart must be a FF supporter/sympathizer is very weak to say the least.

[Mack the Knife]

Your first mistake is wrongly assuming that I'm a FF voter! I am not a member or supporter of any political party on this island. I don't support party politics but that is not relevant to this argument and non of your business anyway.

Secondly people very conveniently forget the fact that they/we voted those "leaders" into power in the first place. You can also rubbish the notion that we all partied but the fact is we did. We all lost the plot a little. People spent ridiculous money on houses, cars, holidays etc etc etc... We had the mentality that it was a bottomless pit, the mentality of "shur whats the point in having money if you don't spend it?" Well a lot of those people (me included) would give anything to go back on those times and spend that money more wisely if at all. I think the "leaders"of that time should undoubtedly bare the brunt of the blame but there is no hiding the fact that we the people also played our part in both electing them and spending recklessly. We can't just keep shoving the blame onto the next fella and the next fella and the next fella. The sooner we accept our own mistakes and learn from them the sooner we will stop being so f**king bitter about everything and move on towards building a better future.

Thirdly every country has it's bleak past. From the slavery in America, the shameful things the British did, to things that happened in Spain, Italy etc etc.. Every country has shameful things in their past and we are no different. The things that happened in the laundries and the churches are so utterly despicable that it's hard to even think about it but the same carryings on happened in America and even the whole J Savile thing in the UK. Those dastardly things are vile acts done by human beings. The human race. It is a human problem NOT an exclusively Irish problem.

All I can gather from your posts is that you are a person that has lost faith in this country and it's people. Whatever glorious but false images you have of what life might be like in another country however is just that, false. Every country has it's problems. EVERY country. It is fine to look in on the UK or the US or wherever from the outside and think that it is a bed of roses in comparison to ours but the reality is that is not always the case. Don't forget many many people have come, and will continue to come, to this country for a better way of life just like many of us do so as well to the likes of Oz or wherever. Those trends come and go like tides. Ireland was bad, then good, then bad again. This is the case with every country.

I am sick of moaning b*****ds like you that do nothing but give out about Ireland and it's people. Cursing the bankers and politicians for all that is wrong in their life, too afraid to look within and take some responsibility for their own actions.

I am an Irish man and I am proud of that. I like everybody else am annoyed at our squandered wealth but continuing to be bitter about it will only bring yourself down, everybody around you down and ultimately make the challenge of moving forward and rebuilding a hell of a lot harder. For all the negatives that you and many others are so quick to point out there are a hell of a lot of good things that this country has done. From humanitarian aid, to simpler things like producing world renowned poets, musicians and even rugby teams.

We are a valid republic because we fought and earned it as much as any other but a lot more importantly we are as much a Republic as any other because we are as human as any other. Not good, not bad, just fecking human.

So stop making us out to be a joke or a disaster or the worst place in the world. I refuse to lose faith in the people of this island because I know what we are capable of and the only ones that will ultimately get us out of this mess is ourselves and when we do (and we will) I'll be content in myself for not turning my back on it like you appear to be doing now.

p.s. Your notion that anybody who has a positive attitude or isn't a bitter cranky old fart must be a FF supporter/sympathizer is very weak to say the least.

First of all there is no need for the personal abuse. Did I abuse you ? Secondly I never assumed that you were an FF voter, FF. FG, Labour Tweedle dum and Tweedle Dees no faith in any of them. Thirdly I haven't lost faith at all in the Irish people and I agree that it is only the Irish people that will get us out of it, but I am of the opinion that the state or this Republic has failed and that the concept of a second Republic should be explored,.
I want something better for the Irish people not the ****e we have at the moment or the ****e that landed us in this mess. Luckily my only indulgence during the "boom" was a new car which I needed due to doing a lot of driving so I am in the happy position of having very small debt.
Bankers and politicians have a had huge part in our demise.

[Cill na Martra]

First of all there is no need for the personal abuse. Did I abuse you ? Secondly I never assumed that you were an FF voter, FF. FG, Labour Tweedle dum and Tweedle Dees no faith in any of them. Thirdly I haven't lost faith at all in the Irish people and I agree that it is only the Irish people that will get us out of it, but I am of the opinion that the state or this Republic has failed and that the concept of a second Republic should be explored,.
I want something better for the Irish people not the ****e we have at the moment or the ****e that landed us in this mess. Luckily my only indulgence during the "boom" was a new car which I needed due to doing a lot of driving so I am in the happy position of having very small debt.
Bankers and politicians have a had huge part in our demise.

You really aren't the sharpest tool in Ibrox, which isn't saying much.

You first deny the existence of our republic, and advocate rejoining the crown. Now you speak about the formation of a 2nd republic. But what is that, pray tell? Code for penury to the queen and her inbred offspring?

Instead of any longer bleeding our state, through public sector scrounging, wouldn't you be happier up north in your rangers top, drinking Buckfast on the Shankill with your ol' mucker, Davy Tweed.

[BOK]

First of all there is no need for the personal abuse. Did I abuse you ? Secondly I never assumed that you were an FF voter, FF. FG, Labour Tweedle dum and Tweedle Dees no faith in any of them. Thirdly I haven't lost faith at all in the Irish people and I agree that it is only the Irish people that will get us out of it, but I am of the opinion that the state or this Republic has failed and that the concept of a second Republic should be explored,.
I want something better for the Irish people not the ****e we have at the moment or the ****e that landed us in this mess. Luckily my only indulgence during the "boom" was a new car which I needed due to doing a lot of driving so I am in the happy position of having very small debt.
Bankers and politicians have a had huge part in our demise.

I apologize for the abusive word I used. I was riled up and it was uncalled for and I apologize.

I agree FF, FG etc all the same, as I said I don't agree with party politics. I also agree that the politicians and bankers have a huge part to play in what has happened, the biggest part. I also feel however that too many people continue to use them as a scapegoat for the bad decisions that they made themselves. Yes the banks were too quick to throw money at us but we were too quick to take it as well. Many many people lived well beyond their means. I am of the belief that we are not all dopey sheep that are just being shepherded along. We are an educated nation and we ultimately have to take responsibility for our own ill decisions. The government of the time undoubtedly has to take the most blame as they are responsible for the whole nation where as each individual is only responsible for themself or their family. They had a lot more responsibility so ultimately have to take a lot more blame. It is just the people who continue to use that as an excuse to cover up their own mistakes and as a means of dodging any responsibility for their own individual over spending and over borrowing that really annoys me. They then continue to curse Ireland as a whole and start to turn against many other parts of our society as a result, when they should be cursing themselves and learning from their own mistakes.

I don't agree that the republic has failed. I think huge mistakes were made. Some honest, many not, but many other countries like Portugal, Spain, Greece and Italy made just as many mistakes, if not more and ones of an even more drastic nature. We had our share (still do) of corrupt politicians who's only interest was feathering their own nest, but compared to some of the corruption that goes on in Italy etc... it is relatively small. I also think that we are dealing quite well with things here when you look at the likes of Greece. I believe we will come out of this recession and that we will do so a lot stronger and a hell of a lot smarter. We will learn from the mistakes and we will get this country back to a good place again. We will also be a lot more astute to picking out the bullsh***ers in the Dail and will ensure they don't stay there too long like some of the FF's did.

I know it might come across as overly romantic but Ireland has fought it's way out of the dark before and I believe we will again. It is engrained in us to not give up. It will be a lot more difficult this time as we are not all fighting against a common enemy but rather against ourselves and our fellow country men and ours and their mistakes. That makes it more tricky but not undo-able. The basic will and desire that is their in us Irish will win through in the end because we quite simply know no other way.

(I also apologize for my long replies, once I start I have a tendency to ramble. Also I have brought the conversation of this thread way off topic, sorry mods)

[Mack the Knife]

Fair play . You do in fairness put some thought in to your answers and you haven't gone for the lowest common denominator like another poster in your argument.

[BOK]

He is DEFINITELY not in my argument. When someone lowers themselves to throwing out meaningless and childish insults along the lines of which he has, you can be sure they are often left fighting by themselves.

[kermit]

This thread is going nowhere only down the road of people abusing each other.

[kermit]

Thread reopened as Cill na Martra banned for a week.