Win, so much win
Clearest indicators that the Irish team is careering toward a new era in terms of captaincy, and by new era I mean of course the 1920's
Win, so much win
Clearest indicators that the Irish team is careering toward a new era in terms of captaincy, and by new era I mean of course the 1920's
I am the million man.
Fup. Me.
It's the Dirty Sanchez Twins.
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
Christ almighty Cowboy- between those and that Austin Healy pic I'm starting to think of amending the list of things not allowed on this site to include "being Cowboy". However, as you have just presented the most compelling argument yet against either of the blues brothers being nominated captain, I suppose I'll let it stand.
Never mind perception because it isn’t real. It’s only what people think. Go out and make them think something else.
- Alan Quinlan on believing in yourself
To be saying the player with the best captaincy record of any player in the squad shouldn't be picked due to a personality issue is ridiculous....
Originally Posted by mr chips
Christ almighty Cowboy
Thank you, Your Eminence.
I am the million man.
His performances for Ireland for the last 2 seasons have been awful.
If POC is fit to start, he will captain the side I'm sure.
There's no reason for anyone other than our pack leader and best player to captain the side.
"That's what's difficult. You know that O'Connell is going to be the one that will jump for the ball but you still don't manage to steal it. It's kind of annoying
"I talked about it with the Toulouse players, my final in 2006 and theirs in 2008 against Munster. I was marking Paul O'Connell and they were man-marking him too. We knew he was going to jump. But I remember I was in really good condition, with a good lift, but every time I just missed it."
Harinordoquy
Hhhhmmmm... Who is the best candidate for captain? Yeah Healy is definitely on of the few nailed down starters in this situation. Fxck it.why not? Healy and sexton have important roles for Ireland.
\" well Declan how does it feel to be the Architect of one of the greatest sporting achievements in Irish history?\"
\" Well I dont know about architect really...I mean players win matches, sure, i had nothing to do wiut it really\"
Healy is way too immature and I'd have doubts over Sexton too. Heaslip or Ferris would be my choices given the likely team.
Irish Examiner
Search for captaincy material started 12 months ago
By Daragh Ó Conchúir
Friday, November 02, 2012
Declan Kidney has revealed he began the process to increase the depth of the leadership group within the Irish rugby squad a year ago in anticipation of what has happened this week, with Brian O’Driscoll and Rory Best both being ruled out of the November internationals through injury.
The age profile of O’Driscoll, Best, Paul O’Connell and Ronan O’Gara prompted the head coach to freshen up that aspect of the squad but with a strong possibility that none of the quartet will be on the field against South Africa tomorrow week, it will be interesting to see who stands up. Barring injury, Gordon D’Arcy islikely to be the most experienced member of the team that takes on the Springboks and as he sat next to Kidney at yesterday’s press briefing in Carton House, one wondered if he was likely to succeed his long-time centre partner O’Driscoll as skipper if O’Connell doesn’t recover from a back injury. Whatever happens in the short term, the likes of Jamie Heaslip, Cian Healy, Keith Earls and Jonathan Sexton are being groomed.
"We’ve been doing that since six, 12 months ago" said Kidney. "That was always going to come around so it would have been wrong to wait until it had to happen. "There’s a crop ofplayers there… it wouldn’t take arocket scientist to work it out, they’ve been around a bit. There’s about a half-dozen, eight fellas we’re working on and bringing through."
Kidney said that he had a candidate in mind for the armband and listed some of the requirements for the job.
"What you want is a player that the other players will respect, on and off the pitch. A player that they will listen to, that has a good tactical appreciation of what’s needed out on the pitch. Usually the captain has to have a relationship with the referee.
"I rarely go up to a guy and say ‘will you just captain the side?’ because it is another load on him and first andforemost you want to make sure he’s comfortable with it. We’ve a few lads that could step in. The way test rugby is, it might be a cliché, but you do need them all to be leaders."
Kidney reported O’Connell to have pulled up stiff on Tuesday from training the previous day.
The Munster talisman had hoped to line out for the province alongside O’Gara in tonight’s Rabobank PRO 12 trip to Cardiff but won’t now, despite responding well to treatment. Kidney is optimistic O’Connell and Healy — who had a shoulder scan yesterday — will be available for selection.
4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election
"Frankfurts way or Labours way."
28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty
"A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."
Kidney opens the door for Sexton to captain Ireland
By Ruaidhri O'Connor
Friday November 02 2012
JONATHAN Sexton is the new favourite to lead out Ireland against South Africa tomorrow week.
The Leinster out-half and his provincial team-mate Jamie Heaslip are the two front-runners to assume the captaincy as it looks increasingly likely Paul O'Connell will be allowed to focus on getting back to full fitness.
Having lost Brian O'Driscoll and Rory Best to injury, and with O'Connell again sitting out training yesterday with a back injury, it seems certain that there will be a new skipper for the visit of the Springboks -- and Declan Kidney admitted he has someone in mind.
According to Kidney, the team's new captain must command the respect of the rest of the squad. And while the Ireland coach refused to reveal who he has earmarked for the role, he did say that it would not be a prerequisite to have previously captained a province -- a comment that many will interpret as opening the door for Sexton's possible promotion.
"I think what you always want is a player that the other players will respect, on and off the pitch," Kidney said.
"A player that they will listen to, that has a good tactical appreciation of what's needed out on the pitch. Usually the captain has to have a relationship with the referee. So there's quite a number of things.
"It's easy to just announce somebody, to ask a guy to carry it. I rarely go up to a guy and say, 'will you just captain the side?' because it is another load on him and first and foremost you want to make sure that he's comfortable with it. We've a few lads that could step in."
Kidney indicated that Keith Earls would be the man to fill O'Driscoll's No 13 jersey next week, while he left the door open for Felix Jones to force his way into contention for the full-back berth, left vacant by Rob Kearney's back surgery, with a strong performance for Munster against Cardiff Blues tonight.
The coach will be hoping that his team-mate Ronan O'Gara and Ulster's Stephen Ferris can come through their Pro12 run-outs tonight unscathed, while Cian Healy again sat out training yesterday with a shoulder problem.
Centre Gordon D'Arcy underlined the task at hand for his Ireland colleagues yesterday, saying: "We have got to win these three games."
- Ruaidhri O'Connor
Irish Independent
4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election
"Frankfurts way or Labours way."
28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty
"A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."
The Irish Times - Friday, November 2, 2012
Kidney runs his eye over new crop
GAVIN CUMMISKEY Reports
RUGBY: AUTUMN INTERNATIONALS THE UPCOMING November internationals will provide a glimpse into the future. The continuing doubt about Paul O’Connell’s back injury makes it a distinct possibility that none of the longest-serving members of Ireland’s leadership group will take the field against the Springboks on November 10th.
Brian O’Driscoll (ankle) and Rory Best (neck) were crocked last weekend and while Ronan O’Gara returns from a pulled hamstring for Munster in Cardiff tonight, the 35-year-old has not been the starting Irish outhalf since last year’s World Cup.
Rob Kearney would have been an obvious contender to take the captaincy but he just underwent back surgery. Add in Seán O’Brien’s name and it’s surely the cruellest injury list Irish rugby has encountered in the professional era.
The last two European players of the year and the last two Lions captains.
Gone.
And there’s more. Fergus McFadden has been unable to train due to stitches in his ear while Cian Healy worryingly took his damaged shoulder to a specialist yesterday.
We are clearly witnessing a changing of the guard and while nobody expected this rate of acceleration Declan Kidney has been transitioning the leadership group for almost 12 months.
“I knew that was always going to come around so I knew it would be wrong to wait for it to happen,” said Kidney. “There is a crop of players there, I am not going to identify them, but it wouldn’t take a rocket scientist to work out who they are.
“They have been around for quite a bit. About half a dozen, eight fellas we are working on and bringing them through.”
We know Jonathan Sexton and Donnacha Ryan are recent additions to the inner sanctum, with Ulster lock Dan Tuohy confirming as much. “They are looking at a more senior role than they were possibly used to,” he said.
Gordon D’Arcy put himself in that bracket yesterday: “You go through being a young fella challenging the status quo and you suddenly turn around and you are the status quo and everybody is a lot younger than you.”
Jamie Heaslip is unbeaten as Leinster captain when filling-in for Leo Cullen these past few years and is on record as saying he wants the responsibility, while Peter O’Mahony could easily become the next Ireland captain if O’Connell doesn’t make it. The former Pres Cork backrower ticks a lot of boxes having already led Ireland through the underage grades and Munster this season.
Kidney smiled when asked if a new captain needed to have previous experience in the role (O’Driscoll came in cold in 2002)? “Not necessarily, no.” He also confirmed his mind was made up.
Of course, O’Connell may yet recover to lead the team against South Africa but he couldn’t train yesterday. It must also be noted the 33-year-old has come back from two serious (groin and knee) injuries since 2010.
“If it was a cup final he could have trained,” said Kidney. “It is just prudence this week to try and get rid of it.” The exact nature of the injury was not revealed.
O’Driscoll, O’Connell, Best, O’Gara and Kearney could all return by the Six Nations but a new leadership group is still required for the 2015 World Cup in England.
“What I learnt a long time ago is it doesn’t stand still,” Kidney continued. “You have to keep bringing guys through.
“You do lose experience without a shadow of a doubt. There is a considerable amount of intellectual knowledge that isn’t available to us anymore, for one reason or another, but there are new players coming in and bringing their excitement to it. There are half a dozen new guys in camp for the first time. That brings its own excitement.”
The drop in “intellectual knowledge” could also refer to Geordan Murphy and Shane Jennings.
Kidney’s poker face came up thereafter. He flooded the centre, fullback and tighthead positions with every conceivable candidate. At one point we expected the list to extend into the AIL or provincial academies. He named six possible fullbacks to replace Kearny, including Connacht teenager Robbie Henshaw.
There were, in fairness, a few clues. Denis Hurley’s call-up was a head scratcher as Felix Jones is clearly above him in the Munster pecking order.
But there is history of Kidney dropping Hurley into a team from nowhere, going back to 2008 when Shaun Payne lost out for the knockout stages of the Heineken Cup.
There is hope for the injury-prone Jones, providing he shows well tonight in just his second start of the campaign, as Kidney confirmed the team will not necessarily be selected from the current training squad.
With Declan Fitzpatrick concussed it seemed certain that Taranaki’s Michael Bent (he of the Rathmines granny) would sit on the bench as Mike Ross’ understudy on Saturday week.
“He (Bent) joined in the training fully today for the first time. It is great that we have someone match fit.”
But then Kidney flung another curve ball by reopening the tighthead door for Sale’s Tony Buckley or John Andress, the 28-year-old Belfast-born prop, currently with the Worcester Warriors.
“Due to [IRB] regulation nine they couldn’t come into us this week but if they come in next week we would have to make a decision by Tuesday. I would have to decide they can pick up everything they are doing within two days otherwise we would have to release them as that’s the deal with the Premiership.”
Four years ago the Irish head coach began the job in the same position he currently finds himself; scrambling to remain in the top eight of the world rankings.
Can he do anything different now? “No, you just back yourself. Different team, different time, similar circumstances but, no, you just back yourself and you back the players. Just give them full reign to go out and express themselves and enjoy themselves.
“Because if you don’t enjoy yourself you won’t play to the best of your ability. I always believe if we play to the best of our ability we are a match for anybody.”
Due to mass upheaval in camp Ireland, how good they actually are when playing to the best of their ability is unknown.
NEXT IRELAND CAPTAIN?: The candidates . . .
Peter O’Mahony (Munster)
Age : 23
Position : Backrow
Caps : 7
Groomed for the role having captained Ireland schools, under-20s and Munster.
The major barrier for the Cork man is nailing down a backrow slot, although the absence of Sean O’Brien and overlooked Shane Jennings makes openside flanker a straight fight with Chris Henry.
Jonathan Sexton (Leinster)
Age : 27
Position : Outhalf
Caps : 32
He calls most of the plays anyway, the new chairman of Irupa may not be burdened with the captaincy as he is already the place kicker and Kidney may see that as enough responsibility. Not that Sexton would turn it down.
A natural leader.
Jamie Heaslip (Leinster)
Age : 28
Position : Number eight
Caps : 50
Impressive winning record as stand-in Leinster captain. Undoubtedly a leader by example and has said in the past that he wants to be Ireland captain.
Nailed on starter gives him an edge over O’Mahony.
Donnacha Ryan (Munster)
Age : 28
Position : Lock
Caps : 21
Already taking on increased leadership role and runs the lineout in O’Connell’s absence. More an outside bet for captain, but the man from Tipperary hurling stock has a belligerence that makes him an increasingly valuable member of the squad.
4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election
"Frankfurts way or Labours way."
28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty
"A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."
Hang on a second. He'd never make Darcy captain would he?
"They’re the benchmark that everyone else has to raise their game to meet." Alan Quinlan on Leinster
One thing I will say right now is that this idea BOD is a great captain I just don't get. He, like POC at times as well, has a terrible habit of reacting to things going badly by doing the classic bad captain response of going "give me the ball I'll do it myself". Great players both with their ability to drag teams forward that way but there's way, way more to captaincy than that and for me the decision making both have shown at times has been really poor. In fact this idea that nailed on starters are the best captains makes me laugh as well. Carling, for all his faults, could be a good decision maker, but was never the best centre around and his place was there for captaincy as much as ability - in fact Bentley ended up on the wing because he wasn't getting anywhere even though he outplayed Carling. Halliday should have been ahead of him as well. There's a balance to strike on this but it has to be balance, the guy has to bring some form of skills as a captain not just as a player or as a I'll just do it all myself type. As an extra argument I'd throw in that one of the best captains Munster has had in the last decade wasn't a nailed on starter for Munster never mind a top international - MOD.
As for d'Arcy, I would suggest the way he has failed to step up as senior pro consistently in the last few seasons strongly suggests he's simply not a captain. Not a big deal just he isn't.
The argument has always been that players who are already decision makers make the best captains - BOD by the way isn't in a position where that is the standard case. SH, OH, 8 tend to be decision making roles, same with hooker to an extent. Also SH and hooker tend to be impossible to shut up anyway. We probably do need to look at core positions, i.e. who will play those positions and who will be pack leader and think from that perspective. Having lots of caps, being a good player, being popular with the lads are all ******** on the captaincy front.
Just my opinion.
Last edited by Evil Omer; 2nd-November-2012 at 09:49.
\"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"
but however the clearest tactical understanding of what was needed at that point in time, i.e. the best thing to do to win the game for the team, in stark contrast to some other (over praised) captains whose response would have been "get the ball, get up the pitch and give it to me"
\"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"
Disagree with that, EO. BOD has consistently led from the front and set the standards for his team - making the biggest hits, the biggest breaks and being constantly in the thick of it.
If anything, I think the decision making notion is over egged these days.
The attacking options are well drilled, and the fly half makes the key calls in terms of what to run and what to kick.
It's not test cricket - the captain doesn't need to be a strategist.
"We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow
"Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy
I'll give you an example, granted not that recent, of how decision making kills games. 2003 v Australia we battered them senseless for about 25 minutes and got nada for it. The reason being we kept kicking to the corner and trying to maul it over and they just kept giving away penalties. We should have kicked a few of those - we lost the match by less than a score having spurned about 6 kickable chances. Over the years I've watched BOD and POC make decisions similar to that level. Leading from the front is one thing but then you can flip your argument about decision making back onto that. If there are so many decision makers, so many knowing their job and trusted to do it regardless of the captain why do the players need someone to show them how to get stuck in?
Ultimately we've all bitched for years on here about leadership, not give me the ball I'll do it myself but genuine leadership (as in Johnson's comments at end of WC final) is what we're missing. We need guys who make the right calls at the right time. **** the coach's philosophy about zone 2 means we do this etc, we need guys who read the situation properly and make the right calls about when to kick for goal, scrum again, kick for touch and are telling the SH/OH what they want them to be playing. That's not the kind of leadership BOD gives. It's also about saying the right thing to the right player at the right time - exhibit A against BOD is and always will be shouting at a player whose pass has been intercepted, while the interceptor is still only just running off. On both decision making, leadership and even your calls for leadership style that performance just sucks donkey b******s. Would John Eales, Martin Johnson, Richie McCaw be doing that in that way? (By the way correct me if I'm wrong here but BOD has never lifted the HEC as captain either).
One of the 2 greatest players Ireland has ever produced but what he does isn't real captaincy and it has been clear for years that Ireland's poor decision making and constant white line fever in big games has shown we have desperately needed a captain, not a leader, who can do and say the right things to get the team right.
\"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"
In fairness, POC has learnt from that Leicester experience. His Lions were notably happy and united; Nugget said POC was the best captain he'd ever played under.
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
when is this call being made?
Karl Spain: "This is better than watching two guys with stutters playing snap!"
There's another week to grow in their tashers. Donnacha Ryan shall judge whose is the dandiest and then our glorious leader shall be unveiled.
I am the million man.
Nah, I always thought guys playing either of these positions were just dirty little bo**i*es anyway; one steps on your jewels, the other just nuts you there.......!.......
Also SH and hooker tend to be impossible to shut up anyway. -
......
Just my opinion.
That's not my opinion, it's my experience..........
It'd be a decent shout. He's experienced and respected whereas Heaslip and Sexton would both be divisive appointments considering they've never deliver in the green what they have in the blue. If there's anyone in the entire squad who needs to focus on their own game and not have extra responsibility or pressure its those two.
Problem is he's had chances to step up as the senior pro and never really shown any signs of being a leader, we need a captain who can provide leadership.
\"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"
If there's one universal truth in rugby it is: never, ever, ever leave the beer kitty or bus keys with the hooker, or you WILL have cause to regret it. They're not right in the head.Nah, I always thought guys playing either of these positions were just dirty little bo**i*es anyway; one steps on your jewels, the other just nuts you there.......!
That's not my opinion, it's my experience..........
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
Define what you mean by "step up as the senior pro"
Not to step up on anyone's toes, but I'd have expected him to lead and organise the midfield defence against Wales in the 6N. He was passive, to say the least, and I don't think he looked after McFadden very well. In later games, it was Sexton and Earls who set the tempo defensively, though Darce was more of a nuisance at the breakdown.
McFadden got trampled for the game winning try, only on Munsterfans would they pin the blame on D'arcy for that one. D'arcy himself had an outstanding game in Christchurch and against Australia in the world cup, he showed up big time in those as he often does against southern hemisphere opposition. And tell me who made the game and ultimately heineken cup winning tackle on Fofana against Clermont? To say he's a player who doesn't step up for the big occasions is ludicrous.
Now saying he doesn't possess the leadership credentials is a valid argument, saying he doesn't have the commitment, intensity or ability to make a big impact in the big games is ridiculous. I'm not sure which Omer meant.
Last edited by Dowlinz; 2nd-November-2012 at 18:32.
the point we're both making is stepping up as a leader, that was the point in the first place, whatever else he's never come across in any games as the senior pro taking control of the situation
\"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"
just make O' Callighan the f#cking captain. yeah bunch of amitures. The guy has captained the lions before... and did the job very well
unless hes not available... sorry i have a busy life so dont know these things
\" well Declan how does it feel to be the Architect of one of the greatest sporting achievements in Irish history?\"
\" Well I dont know about architect really...I mean players win matches, sure, i had nothing to do wiut it really\"
"senior pro taking control". Again what do you mean by that, its a very vague description. You keep saying things like "stepping up" and "taking control", tell me how he isn't doing these things. Is it a lack of cameo tackles/carries that look great on tv or do you feel he isn't communicating with teammates enough or is too passive in personality or what? If you're going to make the claim you could at least provide the reasoning.
Time for a non~playing captain so.
There are no miracles, only hidden laws. St Augustine
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