Denis Hurley for Ireland

[Downsouthdukin]

So many people here seem to lack a basic appreciation of what's required of a good fullback.

Blinding acceleration is not a critical part of a FB's game. They are typically running from deep and have time to get up to speed. Hurley is actually pretty quick over distance, as is the excellent Rob Kearney, as was Girvan Dempsey before him. However, none of them have BOD-like acceleration or footwork. That hasn't hindered any of them because it simply doesn't matter. BOD's a fecking centre and needs to be quick off the mark and quick on his feet. The requirements of a FB are completely different.

People also keep beating Hurley with the Gilroy stick. He was not simply skinned in a one-on-one. Watch the video (especially replays from behind the Munster posts where you can see the match-ups). He had to come in to take Terblanche (another excellent FB without massive acceleration) and that left space for Gilroy to go outside him. Jones (the great white hope) was the last man, he was poorly positioned and he made a balls of the tackle.

Anyway, why choose an example of when Hurley was on the wing to argue against him at FB? Again, the requirements of the position are a lot more different than people think. I keep hearing that Denis will be exposed by the "speedsters" but I have yet to see this happen when he's at FB. On the other hand, I do see him taking high balls, running good lines, offloading, tackling better than any other FB in Ireland and generally doing his job very well.

Would I pick him ahead of Kearney? No. Would I pick him ahead of Jones or a hastily converted winger or OH? Absolutely.

i would suggest Hurley has played at least as many times if not more for Munster on the wing than fullback. His better games have come on the wing. I think its his best position. Hes a very underrated finisher. Jones has better kicking, better counter-attacking and more consistent in the air. he runs better lines from fullback too.

A blind man can see Jones is a natural fullback Hurley isn't. He looks and plays like a wing there

[barleys chinos]

i would suggest Hurley has played at least as many times if not more for Munster on the wing than fullback. His better games have come on the wing. I think its his best position. Hes a very underrated finisher. Jones has better kicking, better counter-attacking and more consistent in the air. he runs better lines from fullback too.

A blind man can see Jones is a natural fullback Hurley isn't. He looks and plays like a wing there

I know im new to this site but Hurley a winger is something i cant even defend.
Hurley is a F/B and a damn solid 1 at that.He has scored 6 tries in 98 games not a finisher but a good link man..

[Downsouthdukin]

I know im new to this site but Hurley a winger is something i cant even defend.
Hurley is a F/B and a damn solid 1 at that.He has scored 6 tries in 98 games not a finisher but a good link man..

then you must not have seen him play a lot during McGahans reign....... and are you suggesting we play him at 7?

[barleys chinos]

then you must not have seen him play a lot during McGahans reign.

I seen him play as much as anyone and think he is a fine f/b,i think what mcgahan done moving him from wing to f/b was a joke and done him no favours.
Im all for Hurley i think he gets slated here way too much but i think he is a specialist f/b.
Im not trying to put the man down i think you are taking what i said wrong.

[Munsterboy]

i would suggest Hurley has played at least as many times if not more for Munster on the wing than fullback. His better games have come on the wing. I think its his best position. Hes a very underrated finisher. Jones has better kicking, better counter-attacking and more consistent in the air. he runs better lines from fullback too.

A blind man can see Jones is a natural fullback Hurley isn't. He looks and plays like a wing there

Em, no.

[Downsouthdukin]

im not putting him down either, hes an excellent winger. Im pointing out he has played there way more than fullback yet people still say hes a fullback because thats where he came on the scene. Johne Murphy has probably played more games at fullback than Denis.
And saying someone isn't a top international isnt slating someone. Denis would tell you that himself

[Downsouthdukin]

Em, no.

valid point

[Munsterboy]

Johne Murphy has probably played more games at fullback than Denis.

You have watched Munster play, right? We're the ones in red.

[Downsouthdukin]

You have watched Munster play, right? We're the ones in red.

more than you it seems

[Munsterboy]

more than you it seems

Well then, what on earth are you talking about?

Hurley was our FB for most of last season and he played a lot of games at fullback prior to that too, despite the presence of Warwick and, more recently, Jones. He's been our fullback for most of this season too.

Murphy filled in at 15 a handful of times at most.

All that aside, Hurley is a far better fullback than winger. You may not agree but that's because you haven't a rashers.

[barleys chinos]

I think he is a better f/b and as this is my view i accept it may not be right.
The main question is do you think he deserves a cap for ireland at f/b or wing in the AIs

[Downsouthdukin]

Well then, what on earth are you talking about?

Hurley was our FB for most of last season and he played a lot of games at fullback prior to that too, despite the presence of Warwick and, more recently, Jones. He's been our fullback for most of this season too.

Murphy filled in at 15 a handful of times at most.

All that aside, Hurley is a far better fullback than winger. You may not agree but that's because you haven't a rashers.

Johne Murphy started last season as the first choice fullback, fact. He played the first 10 games at fullback with hurley on the wing before Hurley got a chance against edinburgh due to injury to Jones and murphy. During their Heineken cup Murphy started the first 2 at fullback, hurley on the wing, then Hurley the next 4 with murphy on the wing then felix returned from injury again against Ulster with Hurley on the wing.
He play 19 games last year and 1 as a sub and i can confirm 12 of those starts were on the wing.

The only time he would have played fullback despite the presence of Warwick was when ROG didnt start. warwick was our no 1 fullback back up outhalf throughout his career.

if we want to delve further into Hurleys career we can.....

ps. 5 of his 6 tries came in the 2010 season in 15 starts on the wing including 2 in 4 in the heineken

[Downsouthdukin]

I think he is a better f/b and as this is my view i accept it may not be right.
The main question is do you think he deserves a cap for ireland at f/b or wing in the AIs

personally on the wing but not now. there has been times when he merited to be in the frame for national selection but his form right now doesnt warrant it for the AI's imHo

[barleys chinos]

Johne Murphy started last season as the first choice fullback, fact. He played the first 10 games at fullback with hurley on the wing before Hurley got a chance against edinburgh due to injury to Jones and murphy. During their Heineken cup Murphy started the first 2 at fullback, hurley on the wing, then Hurley the 4 with murphy on the wing then felix returned from injury again against Ulster with Hurley on the wing.
He play 19 games last year and 1 as a sub and i can confirm 12 of those starts were on the wing.

The only time he would have played fullback despite the presence of Warwick was when ROG didnt start. warwick was our no 1 fullback back up outhalf throughout his career.

if we want to delve further into Hurleys career we can.....

ps. 5 of his 6 tries came in the 2010 season in 15 starts on the wing including 2 in 4 in the heineken

You make a good point in fairness but this still doesnt make him better winger than a f/b.
Where do you think he plays better.
Me id love to see him tried at 12.

[Downsouthdukin]

You make a good point in fairness but this still doesnt make him better winger than a f/b.
Where do you think he plays better.
Me id love to see him tried at 12.

we'll agree to disagree on that one.. there was talk of the 12 thing for a while but i think that ship has sailed. certainly has the lines of running and tackling ability but it requires a lot more at 12.
He has played his best games for Munster on the wing though ands thats where i see his best position to be

[Downsouthdukin]

gone all quiet there Rasherboy

[Munsterboy]

gone all quiet there Rasherboy

Well I wasn't going to bother but I'll humour you.

Soooo, what you're saying is that Murphy has played a good few games at FB but not as many as Hurley, fact. (Apparently putting "fact" in is really important.)

You also clearly state that Hurley re-established himself as our FB, ahead of Murphy, when he got the chance, fact.

How do the above points validate your argument exactly? You're the only person on the entire board that I can see who thinks he is better there than at FB. His performances have been consistently good at FB, they've been mixed on the wing.

Carry on though. I'm sure you're right and everybody else, including Penney, is wrong.

[scotscor]

Well I wasn't going to bother but I'll humour you.

Soooo, what you're saying is that Murphy has played a good few games at FB but not as many as Hurley, fact. (Apparently putting "fact" in is really important.)

You also clearly state that Hurley re-established himself as our FB, ahead of Murphy, when he got the chance, fact.

How do the above points validate your argument exactly? You're the only person on the entire board that I can see who thinks he is better there than at FB. His performances have been consistently good at FB, they've been mixed on the wing.

Carry on though. I'm sure you're right and everybody else, including Penney, is wrong.

I think he has played poorly in both positions at times, but usually only when he has been switched around. For me his poor performances always seem to happen when he is shifted from teh wing to 15 or vice versa.
This is how I remember his performances:
08 he looked great at 15 until the final.
08/9 looked poor at full back dodgy under a high ball, moved to wing and after a bit started to look solid
09/10 Mostly on the wing looked good, moved to FB Looked poor
10/11 Mostly on the wing looked good, moved to FB Looked poor
11/12 Mostly at FB looked good, moved to the wing looked poor.
12/13 At FB - looked good.

[Downsouthdukin]

Well I wasn't going to bother but I'll humour you.

Soooo, what you're saying is that Murphy has played a good few games at FB but not as many as Hurley, fact. (Apparently putting "fact" in is really important.)

You also clearly state that Hurley re-established himself as our FB, ahead of Murphy, when he got the chance, fact.

How do the above points validate your argument exactly? You're the only person on the entire board that I can see who thinks he is better there than at FB. His performances have been consistently good at FB, they've been mixed on the wing.

Carry on though. I'm sure you're right and everybody else, including Penney, is wrong.

LOL..who's humouring who???? rasherboy, if the facts cant open your eyes there isn't much hope for you. If you could be bothered to go look at the team sheets throughout his career freely available on munsterrugby.ie you will find that he has played more games at wing than fullback. Considering in that time there has been more competition for a wing spot throughout his time at Munster speaks volumes of his abilities and where his coaches believe his best position to be. I never said he cant play fullback simply that his best games and his scores have come playing on the wing.
I think you'll find Denis started the season first choice due to lack of available options rather then grabbing the jersey and the fact Jones has been handed it at the first available opportunity after long term injury again and utter lack of even a mention nationally should really tell you his standing in the position.

Oh and putting 'fact' there means i actually researched it so indeed what i am telling you is fact according to the gospel of munsterrugby.ie...

Heres an example of you misinterpreting facts..
' You also clearly state that Hurley re-established himself as our FB, ahead of Murphy, when he got the chance, fact.'

No i didn't....You could also say he lost his place on the wing to Murphy however more accurately you could say McGahan was unsatisfied with both options there at various times and swapped them around until his first choice fullback Jones returned from injury.

[etcpostmaster]

i dont think its fair to say that hurley is not an international fullback when hes never played for ireland against good opposition. I can only look at the positives; he has improved as a player and is playing good rugby at this moment in time. Im a firm believer in rewarding players on form and dropping players who are not. After losing 60-0 in newzealand, new things need to be tried and new players need to be given a chance. All four provinces have got plenty of competition for places. This needs to translate to the national side.

[mtcmolloy]

i dont think its fair to say that hurley is not an international fullback when hes never played for ireland against good opposition. I can only look at the positives; he has improved as a player and is playing good rugby at this moment in time. Im a firm believer in rewarding players on form and dropping players who are not. After losing 60-0 in newzealand, new things need to be tried and new players need to be given a chance. All four provinces have got plenty of competition for places. This needs to translate to the national side.

I don't think losing 60-0 to the ABs equats to our players suddenly being shi te.
More that we are not properly preparing our world class players (sic) for key games when
we visit major nations in Paris and NZ. I think this would be better addressed
internally, through better man management, than adding more foreign players to our already stretched payroll. This is something kidney was expected to bring, but that he
has not delivered is an understatement.

[Downsouthdukin]

I don't think losing 60-0 to the ABs equats to our players suddenly being shi te.
More that we are not properly preparing our world class players (sic) for key games when
we visit major nations in Paris and NZ. I think this would be better addressed
internally, through better man management, than adding more foreign players to our already stretched payroll. This is something kidney was expected to bring, but that he
has not delivered is an understatement.

Im sorry, what are you trying to say. Its not very clear

[Bromance]

He's having a good season and probably deserves to be in the squad, but would we not be better off looking at the young talent and build for 2015 with Henshaw, O halloran, Gilroy, Conway being looked at as future back three players? Would personnally prefer to see Gilroy, O halloran and Conway up there for 15 ahead of him

[HenryFitz]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rug...325965990.html

Hurley called up to Irish squad. Seems to be to allow the option of playing Earls at 13.

[Thomond78]

G'waaaaaaannnnn, Dinny biiiiiiyyyy!!!!

[Paddy Whac]

At the Edinburgh game a guy in the East terrace wanted Hurley off the Munster squad Now he's in the Irish squad and I'm delighted for him.

[<BM>]

Congrats to Denis, hope he gets some gametime now!

[dropkick]

He's having a good season and probably deserves to be in the squad, but would we not be better off looking at the young talent and build for 2015 with Henshaw, O halloran, Gilroy, Conway being looked at as future back three players? Would personnally prefer to see Gilroy, O halloran and Conway up there for 15 ahead of him

Add Luke O'Dea's name to that list too.

[the plastic paddy]

Congratulations to Dinny, he will not let anyone down!!!!!! Excellent player who fully deserves to be in the Ireland squad, gwan Denis!!!!!!

[Thomond78]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rug...325965990.html

Hurley called up to Irish squad. Seems to be to allow the option of playing Earls at 13.

BTW, second paragraph, Deccie Fitz: good to see the Graduated Return to
Play protocol for concussion is being taken seriously. For once, well done, the IRFU.