Lick the plates clean
Lick the plates clean
I doubt you live in the first world to be honest otherwise you might have picked up enough of an education and learned to read the article you are commenting on and understood he used to earn 75k.Originally Posted by Cill na Martra
4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election
"Frankfurts way or Labours way."
28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty
"A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."
It's not being frugal it's being responsible. In this day & age if you want to have 3 kids, educate them well & enter into a huge mortgage then you need to be responsible. There comes a point in everybodies life when they can't afford something & they have to stay STOP. he didn't & ploughed on regardless by entering into a huge mortgage. I would love Laser eye surgery, a nicer house, a car etc but I can't afford it.
Sensible decisions you say, You can't be serious Balla, you can't say this guy made sensible decisions.
In answer to your question
The question is "at what point did a lifetime of hard work, sensible decisions and application stop being enough?".
Go back a generation or two & look at their standard of living & it certainly wasn't enough for them in comparison to us now. We have it far easier than them.
Last edited by Tobyglen; 17th-October-2012 at 23:37.
The only thing lance is on is his bike 6 hours a day, busting his ass, what are you on?
Jaysus Toby hope you never fall off that point of principle and sit down and think I'd like a family and a nice house. Something the kids can inherit when I'm gone. Some where that I do not have to worry if my kids are outside playing and what is around them.
4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election
"Frankfurts way or Labours way."
28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty
"A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."
It's amazing the scorn that some posters will pour all over their fellow citizens to try and delude themselves into thinking that they're not three missed salary payments away from being in a similar situation.
They should change the lyrics to Amhrán Na Bhian to "I'm Alright Jack" repeated over and over.
And CnM, I hope you never run into someone like yourself if you ever fall off that pedestal you've got for yourself. I don't think you'd like you. You know it's true what they say, “Put an Irishman on the spit and you can always get another Irishman to turn him”.
To The Brave and the Faithful, Nothing is Unpublishable.
1400 euro pm is not a huge mortgage in dublin atm. in fact it represents a house purchase of 300k if a first time buyer. in 2004-06 that was the price of a 3 bed terrace house in tallaght or newbridge.
Get your logic out of here! If we call these people cretins long enough maybe we can convince ourselves that we aren't all slowly heading in the same direction they're in!
To The Brave and the Faithful, Nothing is Unpublishable.
Or closer to Dublin, like Celbridge Leixlip or Lucan......
"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards - checkmate!" Zapp Brannigan
it probably wouldnt have bought a 3 bed in cellbridge and definateley not in lucan and leixlip. council houses in old ballyfermot were going for 300k plus in 2004/05.
The comparison you're making is with life in one of the poorest countries in Europe. I'm not sure how any comparison with a couple of generations ago is valid. But, to go down that route, do you imagine that it would have been impossible for a Garda Sergeant to live in a house of that size thirty years ago?
The point that strikes me here is that he bought a house. Not a sports car, or a yacht, or a holiday home in the med. A house.
That's not considered to be an excessive step for a relatively high earner in most developed nations.
There are a significant number of people in the country who are sinking. And the rest seem to be congratulating themselves on being marginally more buoyant (for now).
"We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow
"Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy
So, beyond your trademark and rather tedious misanthropy, your point is that "sensible" is to only contemplate having children once your mortgage is cleared.
Is that "first world" anywhere within shouting distance of the "real world" at all?
"We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow
"Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy
Great point. I think the real reason people have reacted to this article is that it just doesn't add up - the pay calculations, the "shocking" number of guards going to mabs, the lack of money to pay for a dishwasher......
The whole thing smells of sea creatures and bovine waste.
No one is saying thyat the middle class aren't being squeezed hard. The better off and the lower classes have very slick propaganda machines - but this article is pathethic and does nothing to get across the genuine hardships of the middle class.
Some people here have shared their stories and most people here are probably no more than getting by at the moment. Yet their stories ring true compared to this article.
Theres a lot of shillings to be saved by not using them dishwasher tablets. A squirt of Fairy...... much more cost effective.
Anybody who sees a psychiatrist would want their head examined.*&nb sp;Henry Ford
only minor, and the article to me is bullsh&*tty at best, but 4.5k a month is slightly off. the Universal C&nt Charge would more than likely take 400ish off a month off. Although, some naawing sound in my head is telling my that civil servants/public sector work have some sort of shimmy on the USC, I should know, but I cant bring myself to check.
This family is one of thousands around Ireland, over extended, still want to live the Celtic Tiger lifestyle, can barely afford their mortgage even though rates at levels we will never see again.
There is personal insolvency legislation in the works, likely to be applicable from early next year. Personally I think there is a lot of holes in it, and I have already heard a lot of people aiming to 'arb' the system, but its a start.
And I think the reaction in response is to an innate tendency to start picking, prodding and judging whenever one of these stories comes up.
There's no claim of a "shocking" number of guards going to MABS. You just got carried away with some splendidly irrelevant projections and population calculations.
They have a broken dishwasher. For all you, or any of the other self appointed lifestyle arbiters on here know, the thing could be pissing water all over the floor.
The point, anyway, is that the instinctual response of many on here, and many in society more generally, is to start passing judgement on whether others "deserve" our sympathy rather than an instinctual response of fellow feeling.
And that's because we have a nasty, judgmental, pompous, self righteous, individualistic culture that has drifted visibly towards "I'm all right Jack" over the last thirty years.
"We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow
"Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy
What this thread does show, is that everyone is on their own now. Families, friends will try their best to look after one another but you're very much on your own in this state in the year 2012 and for probably many years to come
.
Was up at the Cork University Hospital visiting a friend who has had a stroke. She's 36 and a mom of four, she's doing good thank God but will not be able to work for a while (she's self employed)
On a separate note, she's in one of those mini-ward cublicle things in A&E since last Friday, still no room at the inn. Yesterday she got a severe headache and felt panicky as this is how it had begun when she had the stroke. Her husband called in the Nursing sister, they just needed a little reassurance. She was told "Listen love, we all have our own crosses to bear"
So most of us are just a 'medical emergency' away from the poor house. The thing that no one sees coming. I wish you all good health, you and your families.
Con Artist
That's a joke, right?
It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
Every plan I have is the best plan in the room. Everybody get quiet and listen to it, and everybody will win
I couldn't disagree more. The facts of this article don't add up. The people who have taken the time to objectively look at the facts presented are confused. It's a fair approach to start with the facts and base your opinions and judegments on them.
Sadly Valencia I have to agree with that post. What a sad state of affairs we have come to when a large group of the population will say to other "you made a stupid mistake you can now rot". Meanwhile the economy as a whole is going down the drain as even those with money will not spend. People such as upfront (and myself) on decent wages struggle to make ends meet and any little left over is hoarded away how is this helping?
I would echo BB, Joeriddick and Valencia I really hope the self righteous on here never fall from their lofty heights and suffer the blight that is unemplyment and certainly dont suffer ill health I am not sure you would have to coping skills required.
I am one of the 5 clowns woo hoo
Indeed. And the manner in which some posters (rightly imho) attack the article, but then use this as a basis to pass judgement on the Sergeant himself creates a very poor image of those individual posters in my mind. The man, as far as we can tell from reading the piece, had no input into it whatsoever. His wife is the journalists source.
He might be one of the top 5% investigators in the force for all we know. Equally, he might be a lazy arse scratcher who doesn't give a toss about public service.
We just don't know.
As I said last night. Attack the article. It's full of holes. The wider discussion doesn't need, or deserve, the scorn, or judgements, of individuals who are willing to pass their judgement on the basis of shoddy journalism.
Sent from my Commodore 64
The facts dont add up (which could be for valid reasons) and while i would love to have his income to support my household (and i have a bigger mortgage around my neck) im sure there are people on 10-20 k less than me who wonder how i could be struggling just as i would look at those on 10-15k more than me.
if this article was supposed to be a template for the struggling middle classes it badly missed the mark and all it did was cause an argument which detracts from the problems it was meant to highlight in the first place
No - just a suggestion that it's as easy to see a rational reason that they might want to get the thing fixed as it is to assume that getting it fixed is an indication of their wanton profligacy.
I don't think anyone here is defending the quality of the journalism, or even feels that they have enough info to defend the decisions made by the people involved.
It's just fairly apparent that for some the instinctual response is to empathise and accept that none of us are beyond reproach, while for others the starting point is to judge.
Some people see a piece of journalism to be critiqued, some people see, well, people.
I think there's a visible attitude gap between "Well, whatever the merits of the article a lot of people are in trouble" and "He's a moron, financially irresponsible, and the numbers don't stack up anyway".
Some people are glass half full, some people are "get your own ****ing glass and how were you so stupid as to end up with a half empty glass anyway?".*
*That might be a joke.
"We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow
"Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy
It's also a fair approach to withhold judgement, and allow yourself to feel some sympathy around the issues suggested by the article, even if it's shoddy.
"We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow
"Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy
Balla, if things are so far gone we can't turn off the water supplies to our dishwashers we've fallen a long way indeed that's why I assumed you were joking.
It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
Every plan I have is the best plan in the room. Everybody get quiet and listen to it, and everybody will win
It is shoddy journalism and if it is supposed to be a metaphor to show how middle earners are being squeezed it does a huge disservice and misses the mark by miles. If on the other hand it was a thinly veiled "threat" by Garda or other State workers regarding allowances it also missed the mark by miles.
It is a shame because this is a debate which needs to be had as resolutions must be found.
I am one of the 5 clowns woo hoo
Nominate for best post on the thread so far.
I am one of the 5 clowns woo hoo
It wasn't meant to be a template for the middle classes. Do you think it was a coincidence that this guy was a Garda?if this article was supposed to be a template for the struggling middle classes it badly missed the mark and all it did was cause an argument which detracts from the problems it was meant to highlight in the first place
Of the middle classes, what % are Gardai? But this case just happened to be one. This is a pretty transparent effort to try and protect public sector allowances and pay. That's why the "wife" has also been writing letters to Ministers, including Varadkar "who always seem anti-Public Sector."
Are tinfoil hats dishwasher safe?
"We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow
"Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy
for those who trot out the our Parents had it harder line I think the more relevant comparison is how do our peers in other European countries live?
If I was earning the money I am on now in Germany, France, Holland etc I would have a better quality of life than I have now. The only thing keeping me here is my wife's family. Having that support nearby is of huge value however we will have to reassess next year after we see the impact of increased HEalth Insurance, Property Tax and water charges on our income.
Its depressing that for the first time in maybe 100 years or more I cannot imagine Kids having a better life than their parents (and that better life lasted all of a decade, lucky us).
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain
We have and will continue to have a worse standard of living in this country because the Irish think they know better than the rest of Europe. We are one of the few (only?) countries in Western Europe who do not have a social democratic party as one of its two largest.
A lot of the good things in this country came via the EU, which was backboned by old-fashioned French notions of solidarity and egalitarianism. But Ireland didn't need that within itself, which is why we alternate between voting for Tweedle Dumb, and Tweedle Dumber. And I see the former is on the rise again according to the latest polls.
We Irish have not taken our political responsibilities seriously.
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