HC Racing Metro Sat 13 13:35 Irish time team # 383

[the plastic paddy]

Ya, take Murray's 3 brainfarts out of the game and he actually had a very solid performance. He tackled like a demon. He covered an awful lot of kicks, and he chased down a lot of our own kicks.

One thing I am growing increasingly concerned with Murray though is his decision making when deciding to pass left or right at a ruck. It's like he has his mind made up before he even gets there half the time. One thing that Reddan has over him is he picks the right side to go most of the time and he does it at pace. Murray doesn't seem to read a game well when he is running from breakdown to breakdown. He should be looking at both sides as he is running up to the tackle area. You get the impression he has either already decided which way he is going without looking or that he decides when he gets there which is too late.

I thought he looked behind the game myself but agree that even with that his tackling was very strong. One thing I would like to see less of though is the odd little niggly cheap shot. There was an incident in the first half where he chased through one of Zebo's excellent grubbers and seemed to stamp towards the RM players ankles as the man kicked the ball into touch, it was unnecessary and had he connected he would have correctly been shown a yellow card for precisely zero chance of reward. Refs watch games back and alongside the challenge on the lock and the very deliberate block which could have both led to yellows, they could start to earn CM a reputation he does not deserve and he might find hard to reverse.

[JoeyFantastic]

Ya, take Murray's 3 brainfarts out of the game and he actually had a very solid performance. He tackled like a demon. He covered an awful lot of kicks, and he chased down a lot of our own kicks.

One thing I am growing increasingly concerned with Murray though is his decision making when deciding to pass left or right at a ruck. It's like he has his mind made up before he even gets there half the time. One thing that Reddan has over him is he picks the right side to go most of the time and he does it at pace. Murray doesn't seem to read a game well when he is running from breakdown to breakdown. He should be looking at both sides as he is running up to the tackle area. You get the impression he has either already decided which way he is going without looking or that he decides when he gets there which is too late.

Reddan's been a pro for a decade now though, he has huge experience. People expect more from Murray because he's been rushed through the system but he's still only starting out as a pro.

[scotscor]

I thought he looked behind the game myself but agree that even with that his tackling was very strong. One thing I would like to see less of though is the odd little niggly cheap shot. There was an incident in the first half where he chased through one of Zebo's excellent grubbers and seemed to stamp towards the RM players ankles as the man kicked the ball into touch, it was unnecessary and had he connected he would have correctly been shown a yellow card for precisely zero chance of reward. Refs watch games back and alongside the challenge on the lock and the very deliberate block which could have both led to yellows, they could start to earn CM a reputation he does not deserve and he might find hard to reverse.

Some of his passing was shocking too. One stands out, the pass from Murray just before ROG's gift. Did not go near a hand.

[Sketchy]

Reddan's been a pro for a decade now though, he has huge experience. People expect more from Murray because he's been rushed through the system but he's still only starting out as a pro.

#

Ya, I agree completely, and I do think the type of decision making I was talking about is something he can work on. He is still without doubt my nailed on starter at 9. To be a great 9 you need a cuteness about you that I don't think he has developed yet. Plenty of time for him in terms of his career but unfortunately our season's needs might be less patient.

[99_oK?]

God no, not this. He's the exact opposite of what we need. If you ignore Murray's three brainfarts, he was having a stormer of a game - ???, you can't be serious. He was everywhere in the opening half hour. He'll learn from his mistakes and come back stronger. Stringer is the past.

Are you serious LB? Didn't notice CM doing too much wrong for the first 20 minutes, but once RM got interested in the game he became a total liability. He was equally at fault for RoG's awful pass in front of Dougie - left RoG with a telegraphed and shovelled pass, and I'm only surmising now but RoG must have assumed he'd be turned over, hence his shovelling on in the direction of Dougie. OK, CM did go back and tackle but he should have been penalised for that. His equally stupid obstruction was not what the team needed either. His decision-making and stepping before passing was driving me insane as the game went on.

Some one else mentioned the knock he got a few weeks ago; wonder if there's something in that as he looked away on a different planet at times. Hope it was one he can put behind him. If not I'd have Williams under consideration. Stringer might not offer too much variation, but at least he can still do the basics.

[ozoyo]

God no, not this. He's the exact opposite of what we need. If you ignore Murray's three brainfarts, he was having a stormer of a game. He was everywhere in the opening half hour. He'll learn from his mistakes and come back stronger. Stringer is the past.

But then again it is hard to ignore these brainfarts as they have weighed a lot on the result. From what I recollect, aside from these incidents his passing was overall sloppy.

I wouldn't say Strings is the opposite of what we need nor would I say that he is the future but I'd say we might have to gain from transferring a bit of that unique experience that Strings have to Murray. It means playing a bit of both instead of leaving one of our most valuable servant on the touchline when the other SH is having a bad day.

[joeriddick]

Anyone read G Hook in the indo??

STRINGER IN

DOUGIE 9 OUT OF 10

KEATLEY 3 OUT OF 10

and this absolute gem:

Penney has led a charmed life since his arrival and the adoring press corps that love a foreign accent greeted his idea of forwards on the wing with an awe previously associated with the two tablets of stone presented by Moses on Mount Sinai.
Marcus Horan must have had a wry smile when he remembered his try count as an auxiliary wing.

George trying his Schmidt Schtick again. He's probably hedging his bets that Saturday was near the top of our performance spectrum as opposed to somewhere near the bottom. He knows what it takes to keep himself in the public eye anyway, not so much a wind up merchant as he is a Wind Up Superstore.

[Sketchy]

Spot on Sketchy.

Once again, really a game to be bitter about, a wrong turn of events.

From that 25th and the POC's knock on to the the fumble and dodgy RM try, as Penney acknowledged, there is a 14 point difference. Munster were undoubtedly a few inches from killing the game and burrying RM and their fans.

If we add the loss of ROG on top of that, whose place kicking was absolutely superb, shortly after, this has been a pivotal 15 minutes.

A little less bad luck, better throws and a Strings on the starting line up and things will be better next time.

I don't think Stringer is the answer to our problems Ozoyo, and with the size of their pack the other day he could have been bashed about all day. Kinda wished we progressed with Williams a bit more as back up to Murray. Surely any progress Williams made at the start of the season is almost gone given his lack of senior rugby gametime. We need to get to the break in HEC with a strong win against Edinburgh and fast. Some great fixtures coming up to get the whole squad up to speed with our new gameplan, and they couldn't come soon enough.

[Old Dog]

I thought he looked behind the game myself but agree that even with that his tackling was very strong. One thing I would like to see less of though is the odd little niggly cheap shot. There was an incident in the first half where he chased through one of Zebo's excellent grubbers and seemed to stamp towards the RM players ankles as the man kicked the ball into touch, it was unnecessary and had he connected he would have correctly been shown a yellow card for precisely zero chance of reward. Refs watch games back and alongside the challenge on the lock and the very deliberate block which could have both led to yellows, they could start to earn CM a reputation he does not deserve and he might find hard to reverse.

You may also remember his cheap shot on a visiting try scorer at the Aviva last season (I can't remember the game, but it's discussed on a thread about that game somewhere on this site) - perhaps Mike Philips is his role model/idol.

[Cill na Martra]

I do like your post, but at the same time... you realise how old the team is..??

And did we have a pint together in Paris..??

5/8ths of the starting pack were either late 20s or early 30s

4/7ths of the starting backs were either late 20s or early/mid 30s

That's hardly a bunch of spring chickens.

People are making far too many excuses for the team, as per usual. Do you know how many injuries RM92 had? Barkley barely knew his colleagues names, let alone the backline moves. Hernandez, had only landed on Thursday and must have been fcuked with jet-lag.

Don't think we had a pint together. We didn't turn up to O'Sullivans till 11.30pm and everyone was pretty fcuked at that stage. Left pretty sharpish when we saw the choice of alcohol on offer!

[Daithi]

A few takeaways from the weekend performance for me were:
- Keatley's kicking game is way below par and he needs to up his length, variety, consistency of execution & option taking here.
- POC- great to see the great man back and in farily good form.
- Munster backrow- keen but green. POM badly needs this SA guy to arrive firing on all cylinders
- Murray- potentially great but needs to use his team around him to win games and stick to the gameplan under pressure
- Denis Hurley- really excellent when he came on, everything he did was good or better, must be in the frame to start.
- Overall- Munster's new game plan philosophy of trying to create & exploit space is great and a huge improvement from playing from rote, as they appeared to be doing for past year or 2. They will have to temper when to run with conditions and the opposition defence e.g. wet & rush defence => kicking more, punching up the middle more, etc dry and drift => passing & running wide earlier. Keatley, Rog & Murrays option taking needs to reflect this a bit better. Also I think Munsters pack needs to up it a level or 3 if they are to seriously compete. Good to see POC back, DOC, Ryan, new SA Back row & Coughlan will all help the cause too - hopefully. A lot of gloom in the media for an away bonus point in Paris....

[blackwarrior]

Three days later and I've decided that the key factor affecting the result on Saturday was the state of the pitch, and the rain that made playing on it progressively worse.

This was too much for an inexperienced team learning a new game plan, robbed of its leaders and up against a team ideally suited for 10-man rugby, with a 10-man outhalf behind them.

Nights in recent years that might compare with it would have been the 5000 phases in Llanelli or the disposal of Wasps at Thomond. But we had a team and leaders then who could deal with it, and use it to their advantage. Not so on Saturday. I just think those conditions came way too soon for this team grappling with loads of new stuff hitting them from the staff.

All the other events - Conor Murray, Dougie, kicking, breakdown, passing errors - I feel were as a result of being unprepared and unable to adapt to the conditions.

I don't discount all the other views posted above, (including my own post-match reaction). It's a good post-match thread to be honest.

But in years to come, the memory that will stick with me will be the state of the pitch*, and little else.



* And Zebo's try, of course

[acskerries]

first log in since getting home from Paris late last night. A bit of a sickener but hopefully the much-maligned backlash will kick in because we definitely need 5 point on Sunday.And the painful lessons are learned. A lot to learn! Ah well, it brought me back to the days when we travelled to France more in hope than in expectation. And despite the lashing rain I managed to have a good weekend. (Though I wasn't too keen on O'S's...) I should be just about caught up on my sleep deficit by next weekend...

[RED 49]

would i be right in saying we probably need to win all our games from now , we will definetely need to do double over saracens . 20 points from 5 wins should be our aim and top group.

[bobbin]

would i be right in saying we probably need to win all our games from now , we will definetely need to do double over saracens . 20 points from 5 wins should be our aim and top group.

3 x BP v Edinburgh twice and RM at home means if we won the head to head with Saracens 5-4 we would have 21 pts.

Don't think we will do it mind but thems the sums!

Sarries could have 10 after this weekend, another 5 from home v Edinburgh, 4 from our head to head as per above so would need to beat RM away to qualify if we had the results above

[rathbaner]

Three days later and I've decided that the key factor affecting the result on Saturday was the state of the pitch, and the rain that made playing on it progressively worse.

This was too much for an inexperienced team learning a new game plan, robbed of its leaders and up against a team ideally suited for 10-man rugby, with a 10-man outhalf behind them.

Nights in recent years that might compare with it would have been the 5000 phases in Llanelli or the disposal of Wasps at Thomond. But we had a team and leaders then who could deal with it, and use it to their advantage. Not so on Saturday. I just think those conditions came way too soon for this team grappling with loads of new stuff hitting them from the staff.

All the other events - Conor Murray, Dougie, kicking, breakdown, passing errors - I feel were as a result of being unprepared and unable to adapt to the conditions.

I don't discount all the other views posted above, (including my own post-match reaction). It's a good post-match thread to be honest.

But in years to come, the memory that will stick with me will be the state of the pitch*, and little else.



* And Zebo's try, of course

good post. But we are short a few top players regardless of lessons learned or Penneys dropping.

[Evil Omer]

Reddan's been a pro for a decade now though, he has huge experience. People expect more from Murray because he's been rushed through the system but he's still only starting out as a pro.

I'd add Reddan isn't everything people make him out to be, he's never been a great decision maker or controller and dipped badly in form when he lost the likes of Dallaglio and Ibanez from that Wasps pack.

[Thomond78]

Juan Smith's a big fan of him...

[lactose intolerant]

Juan Smith's a big fan of him...

Considering the mess we're in, we might be better off with Juan Sheet

[munstershane]

of plenty

[Daithi]

We've got the ideal scrum half for this team and this gameplan. With Rog &/or Keatley he complements their overall game, strengths & weaknesses ideally. He is also sufficiently physical behind a less than convincing Munster 8 currently. Reddan would have hated some of RMs counter rucking on Saturday whereas Murray did quite well with the quality of possession he was allowed by his pack.

Munster badly need to set a better platform at ruck time for Murray and his outside backs. They also need to improve their own lineout hugely. Finally if they can add a better defensive poaching lineout & continue to improve defensive scrum and defence then you might see a real, stingy Munster emerge who can use the ball & space better than the past few years & that would be a big improvement.