BBC Child Abuse scandal on the verge of igniting...

[Balla Boy]

For anyone who's been keeping track of the allegations of complicity at the BBC in quashing rumours around Jimmy Saville and his alleged abuse of young girls, it's worth keeping an eye on the news in the next couple of days. I would say that a number of reputations - reasonably high profile ones - are likely to be shredded in the coming months.

Janet Street Porter on Question Time last night admitted that she was aware of the rumours some years ago, but didn't say anything because she was a young BBC starter who wouldn't be believed. She clearly felt the same would apply when she was one of the highest profile journalists and TV producers in the country years later. There'll be plenty wriggling on that hook, and it's hard to imagine that more won't come to light as victims emerge, such as the one who alleged that Saville, Gary Glitter and a third, un-named, celebrity had been involved in this sort of stuff together.


In wholly unrelated news...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/oc...itv-injunction

[bugler]

I have only seen Savile's less than critical views on Gary Glitter's arrest over child pornography on his PC...funny how this stuff just doesn't take off for some people. Others get crucified for their verbal indiscretions (anything remotely racial in nature and you are finished)

It seems to be clear now that Savile's preying on young girls was an open secret in the BBC. The guy was working very hard to get girls alone in his dressing room, or in his car. What did they (BBC staff) honestly think he was doing? I bet the door was locked. By all accounts he was quite powerful and I can understand people lower down the chain being too scared to speak up, or having any of their concerns shot down. But some high ranking individuals if they knew should be dealt with severely.

[Balla Boy]

I have only seen Savile's less than critical views on Gary Glitter's arrest over child pornography on his PC...funny how this stuff just doesn't take off for some people. Others get crucified for their verbal indiscretions (anything remotely racial in nature and you are finished)

It seems to be clear now that Savile's preying on young girls was an open secret in the BBC. The guy was working very hard to get girls alone in his dressing room, or in his car. What did they (BBC staff) honestly think he was doing? I bet the door was locked. By all accounts he was quite powerful and I can understand people lower down the chain being too scared to speak up, or having any of their concerns shot down. But some high ranking individuals if they knew should be dealt with severely.

One of the standing internet headbanging conspiracy theories that's been doing the rounds for years is that there is a highly placed, highly powered cabal of child abusers and procurers who are covered for due to their position. The more you see though...


I was only born in the mid 70s, and it might be an inaccurate perception, but it does seem to me that popular culture didn't frown on this stuff in quite the same way. Rock stars openly dated (and married!) girls in their mid teens. Elvis was 24 when he started dating the 14 year old Priscilla Presley, Jerry Lee Lewis married his cousing at (what was it?) 14 or 15, Jimmy Page and Bill Wyman were parading through the tabloids with girls that would have gotten them lynched in 2012.

Obviously, the accusations here are not just related to age, but to abuse, assault and rape, so there is a (partial) distinction. But am I wrong in sensing that a man in the public eye in the 70s/80s having sex with a 15 year old girl didn't seem to cause the sort of outrage that it would today?

[JoeyFantastic]

Obviously, the accusations here are not just related to age, but to abuse, assault and rape, so there is a (partial) distinction. But am I wrong in sensing that a man in the public eye in the 70s/80s having sex with a 15 year old girl didn't seem to cause the sort of outrage that it would today?

The drift towards the middleclass has "normalised" certain things, in working class parts of Britain and Ireland people were married younger so it wasn't seen as big a deal maybe. people would have been working down the mines/factory/farm and well out of school in their mid teens in some places.

We have a very uneasy relationship with teen sexuality, imo, one the red tops famously put an article about a paedophile right beside an article saying Charlotte Church was coming along nicely for a 15 or 16 year old (physically).

[fitzy73]

It's a real mess. I've heard some of the allegations second hand, and they are appalling.

Irrespective if when it happened, you'd have to wonder why some of the Beebs senior people sat on it for so long. A real case of see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil?

Sadly, it gives Cameron more ammunition to beat the Corporation with.

[Thomond78]

The drift towards the middleclass has "normalised" certain things, in working class parts of Britain and Ireland people were married younger so it wasn't seen as big a deal maybe. people would have been working down the mines/factory/farm and well out of school in their mid teens in some places.

We have a very uneasy relationship with teen sexuality, imo, one the red tops famously put an article about a paedophile right beside an article saying Charlotte Church was coming along nicely for a 15 or 16 year old (physically).

That was the Taglich Heil.

[Balla Boy]

The drift towards the middleclass has "normalised" certain things, in working class parts of Britain and Ireland people were married younger so it wasn't seen as big a deal maybe. people would have been working down the mines/factory/farm and well out of school in their mid teens in some places.

We have a very uneasy relationship with teen sexuality, imo, one the red tops famously put an article about a paedophile right beside an article saying Charlotte Church was coming along nicely for a 15 or 16 year old (physically).

It's definitely an issue where lots of things get thrown in together, and that leads some of the perpetrators to strange forms of self justification, I think. By conflating issues of paedophilia with issues of abuse, you get into all sorts of tangles around physical maturity etc etc.

There's nothing paedophilic about a man being sexually attracted to a post-pubescent 14 or 15 year old girl. But it is, well, odd and we as a society have placed a taboo on sexual relationships between people of starkly differing emotional maturity.

Of course, these allegations (that girls were co-erced or abused) are on a different level again.

[Old Dog]

In wholly unrelated news...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/oc...itv-injunction

Ditto.

[the plastic paddy]

The power wielded by stars and the pandering of the BBC to it continues. It is not as serious I know but a certain high profile vegetarian actor made it a condition of his being paid hundreds of thousands of pound to appear in a second rate period cop show that the shoot was to be strictly veggie; when he saw the gaffer and sparks nipping into McDonalds for some much needed protein he insisted that they be sacked and the company acceded to his wishes.

Now the BBC will probably claim that this was a seperate production company but the naked slavering obeisance of the BBC to its stars would fill pages of the newspapers were it to be made known.

Another situation concerned a grumpy actress who had put on weight from one season to the next such that none of her costumes fitted, the wardrobe department all got the sack.

It would not remotely surprise me that the Beeb was complicit in child abuse. Interestingly, the Telegraph, which is a critic of Auntie leads, this morning, with stories of the Beeb paying money to companies to facilitate tax avoidance; there will be some stars and more importantly agents sh*tting themselves this morning, I can hear the shredding machines whirring as we speak.

[Balla Boy]

Ditto.

And at the foot a further list of complaints from the childrens home that Saville "supported". It must be one of the worlds worst kept secrets that there's a Catholic Church scale scandal waiting to break about the exploitation of children in state care.

[Thomond78]

And at the foot a further list of complaints from the childrens home that Saville "supported". It must be one of the worlds worst kept secrets that there's a Catholic Church scale scandal waiting to break about the exploitation of children in state care.

It's hardly a secret.

[Balla Boy]

It's hardly a secret.

It's hardly a burning topic of political discussion either.

[Old Dog]

It's hardly a burning topic of political discussion either.

Sadly, the Irish State still appears to be discriminating against Protestants - even abused ones.

http://www.alliancesupport.org/news/...es/004444.html

http://www.sceala.com/phpBB2/irish-forums-24961.html

[Thomond78]

It's hardly a burning topic of political discussion either.

Nor is it going to be. What, the Irish State take responsibility for its own inaction and failures? Heh. Nice one, centurion.

[JoeyFantastic]

And at the foot a further list of complaints from the childrens home that Saville "supported". It must be one of the worlds worst kept secrets that there's a Catholic Church scale scandal waiting to break about the exploitation of children in state care.

In English State Homes?

[Balla Boy]

In English State Homes?

Yes. There was a high profile case in the 90s that I'm sure involved someone who was later linked to another high profile child abuse case. I'll try to track down the details. A number of the girls caught up in the "grooming" allegations in Rochdale and elsewhere seem to be in council care when they fall prey to these people.

Now this place in Jersey is being linked to Jimmy Saville. It feels like one of those things that everyone is aware of somewhere in their minds, but no one has put in one place and said "this is the scale of the problem".

Abuse (of a different kind) in the care of the elderly and those with disabilities is another. You just see these "one off" cases breaking every now and then, that are treated in isolation, and you wonder whether they are isolated or just rare glimpses at something that's going on all the time.

[Balla Boy]

For instance...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...al-721360.html

[Old Dog]

Yes. There was a high profile case in the 90s that I'm sure involved someone who was later linked to another high profile child abuse case. I'll try to track down the details. A number of the girls caught up in the "grooming" allegations in Rochdale and elsewhere seem to be in council care when they fall prey to these people.

Now this place in Jersey is being linked to Jimmy Saville. It feels like one of those things that everyone is aware of somewhere in their minds, but no one has put in one place and said "this is the scale of the problem".

Abuse (of a different kind) in the care of the elderly and those with disabilities is another. You just see these "one off" cases breaking every now and then, that are treated in isolation, and you wonder whether they are isolated or just rare glimpses at something that's going on all the time.

Are you thinking of ex-Southampton FC manager Dave Jones being smeared with allegations about abuse in a care home?

It took him years to clear his name and ruined his managerial career.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1056311.stm

[Balla Boy]

Are you thinking of ex-Southampton FC manager Dave Jones being smeared with allegations about abuse in a care home?

It took him years to clear his name and ruined his managerial career.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1056311.stm

Just had a quick dig around, and it was a relative of Baby P who was linked to an abuse ring centred on a children's home in Islington.

It's hard to tell how much is internet headbanging, but there seem to be lots of insinuations about the visits of people like the Krays, and even Harold Wilson, to boys homes in Jersey.

The Belgian scandal a few years ago also seemed to carry a few heavy insinuations that important people in authority were colluding in cover ups.

I wouldn't want to stray too much into "the world is run by a sinister cabal" territory, but it wouldn't be the most shocking thing in the world were a particular nexus of organised crime, the procurement of vulnerable young boys and girls and the influence of wealthy and powerful people in public life to emerge at some point, would it?

Some rich, powerful people are perverts, and that presents an economic opportunity for those willing to facilitate those perversions. It would be more surpsing if it weren't happening, depressingly.

[Old Dog]

The life and death of Baby P is one of the few things in life that really upsets me. No doubt Tracey Connolly the slut who bore him will be out of prison, ready to breed again, quite soon.

Would you happen know whether Sharon Shoesmith has won her unfair dismissal case against Harringey?

[Thomond78]

The life and death of Baby P is one of the few things in life that really upsets me. No doubt Tracey Connolly the slut who bore him will be out of prison, ready to breed again, quite soon.

Would you happen know whether Sharon Shoesmith has won her unfair dismissal case against Harringey?

Yes. Haringey tried to appeal it and were told by the UKSC to get bent.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...aron-shoesmith

[Old Dog]

Yes. Haringey tried to appeal it and were told by the UKSC to get bent.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...aron-shoesmith

Wow - further proof, if any was needed, that the law is indeed an ass.

One hopes that Shoesmith's blood money will bring her no pleasure.

[Thomond78]

Wow - further proof, if any was needed, that the law is indeed an ass.

One hopes that Shoesmith's blood money will bring her no pleasure.

Judgement is: http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2011/642.html

To say it empties a well-deserved bucket of **** on Ed Balls' head is an understatement. Have a look at paras 133-5 of Kay's judgement. Ouch.

[Balla Boy]

Wow - further proof, if any was needed, that the law is indeed an ass.

One hopes that Shoesmith's blood money will bring her no pleasure.

Everyone came out of that badly. No doubt that she was hung out to dry by Ed Balls, who should have been a lot more mindful of the limit of his powers.

At the same time, if a department that you run fouls up so horrendously, the honorable thing is to fall on your sword. The notion of leaders accepting responsibility for the actions of those they lead seems to have passed some time ago.

[Evil Omer]

Wow - further proof, if any was needed, that the law is indeed an ass.

One hopes that Shoesmith's blood money will bring her no pleasure.

I personally hope she chokes daily on everything she buys with it - whatever about not following correct procedures etc she should have had the decency to resign in the first place and take ultimate responsibility like she took the pay for that position.

[Evil Omer]

Just had a quick dig around, and it was a relative of Baby P who was linked to an abuse ring centred on a children's home in Islington.

It's hard to tell how much is internet headbanging, but there seem to be lots of insinuations about the visits of people like the Krays, and even Harold Wilson, to boys homes in Jersey.

The Belgian scandal a few years ago also seemed to carry a few heavy insinuations that important people in authority were colluding in cover ups.

I wouldn't want to stray too much into "the world is run by a sinister cabal" territory, but it wouldn't be the most shocking thing in the world were a particular nexus of organised crime, the procurement of vulnerable young boys and girls and the influence of wealthy and powerful people in public life to emerge at some point, would it?

Some rich, powerful people are perverts, and that presents an economic opportunity for those willing to facilitate those perversions. It would be more surpsing if it weren't happening, depressingly.

Hollie Greig stuff what you're thinking of? Never sure one way or another on that.

As I've said before I've been told by serving police officers they've been after a very well know celebrity (not named in any of this) for years for being a paedophile but his connections to upper echelons of society have meant it is continually blocked.

I said this about the church scandals, paedophile rings work to get them and their type into positions where they can service their scumbag type's needs. Why people believed this was just a church thing I've never understood, why would they only target one area when the world is full of opportunities for them to target vulnerable children. Any type of creature willing to claim a small child led them on is not beyond doing anything in serving their own needs. My only surprise with Glitter is that girls that age were of interest to him, I thought he went for much younger.

World of excrement is going to fall out of this story. As said on the celebrity RIP thread when OD pointed out the storm starting, I'd heard some sleazy stories about him and googled bits when he died, the care home in Jersey was coming up then. Together with stories about him being allowed private visits to arrange "parties" at Broadmoor.

[Cougar Moon]

Esther Rantzen has also commented on Saville in a similar way to Janet St Porter. It must have been quite blatant.

[the plastic paddy]

Judgement is: http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2011/642.html

To say it empties a well-deserved bucket of **** on Ed Balls' head is an understatement. Have a look at paras 133-5 of Kay's judgement. Ouch.

That shameless f*cker won't care.

[Evil Omer]

sounds like there's a good 40 years of rumours, it's not just the famous like Rantzen and the big toothed one it's producers, studio staff etc we've never heard of.

The thing that makes me laugh is people like Janet Street-Porter who've never been shy about voicing an opinion on anything and everything, no matter how offensive that opinion is, now wringing their hands saying I couldn't do anything about it. What they all mean, not just her, is they were too scared of losing their job so they put that first. I look forward to her next lecture on loose women or question time for that matter about doing the right thing, moral decisions etc Personally I think there's a lot of "broadcasters" who have now invalidated their right to sit and pass judgement on anyone else's behaviour.

[Balla Boy]

Too right, EO. A lot of very judgey, preachy rentagobs like Street Porter will be playing the prisoner of conscience - "we wouldn't have been listened too, we were downtrodden".

Girls were being raped. Someone should have given him a slap of a lump hammer, job or no ****ing job.