Arrogance

[etcpostmaster]

Well the definition is an attitude of superiority manifested in an over bearing manner.

My definition is knowing you re THE sh*t even if you may very actually be sh*t.

I miss this attitude from Munster and all the fans. Munster still are THE sh*t. Too many humble, realistic fans on this forum.... It's time to be dominant and superior to everyone else... Even if we re not. Wales never lose games... They might score less than the opposition but morally they always win.

We need to adopt this attitude

Discuss

[etcpostmaster]

To quote star wars , " if you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine"

[i_like_cake]

You know, beside the fat that Irish have a propensity, not to be (too) arrogant, current younger Leinster fans aside..... I think that the 60-0 drubbing the kiwis gave us, hurt us and our players more than we let on.... I still clench when I think of it...

[rathbaner]

This is what happens when The S*it hits a fan.

[etcpostmaster]

Yeah but it was an away match across the other side of the world. The players were jet lagged etc along with a conservative coach and a certain paddy Wallace was called up whilst on Holliday. The hotel sucked and the referee was a total homer. Tbh Ireland would have won easily if all this hadn't counted against them

[i_like_cake]

[etcpostmaster]

Besides who cares about the 60-0 loss. Ireland have never beaten newzealand anyways. Who cares about the respective shorelines. Arrogance is about looking at someone who has been better and saying, " I have a bigger d**k. I don't care if you re smarter"

[BOK]

Well the definition is an attitude of superiority manifested in an over bearing manner.

My definition is knowing you re THE sh*t even if you may very actually be sh*t.

I miss this attitude from Munster and all the fans. Munster still are THE sh*t. Too many humble, realistic fans on this forum.... It's time to be dominant and superior to everyone else... Even if we re not. Wales never lose games... They might score less than the opposition but morally they always win.

We need to adopt this attitude

Discuss

Oh good god NO! just NO!

Arrogance is without doubt one of the worst, most ugliest, least tolerable human traits there is. In rugby terms I have experienced too much of it in NZ from All Black fans, from some of the younger Leinster supporters and from some of our own back in the day when we were on top. It makes me sick to the stomach.

I personally am delighted that the most of the arrogance has been washed out of the Munster support base and I will be very happy if it never returns. (That of course will never be the case as when we get back to the top, which we will, a certain amount of that arrogance will creep back in from, most probably the younger fans) but to pre-plan and instigate it in advance is the absolute height of arrogance in my view and something I definitely will not be taking part in.

And how you can claim that Wales always win morally I find very baffling. There is only one winning that matters and that is on the scoreboard, everything else is completely and utterly irrelevant.

[etcpostmaster]

Lol... Brilliant!

( that of course will never be the case as when we get back to the top, which we will, a certain amount of that arrogance will creep back in from, mostly probably younger fans)

What I love about this is the younger fans may be arrogant. Let's hope they are the young lads playing for munster

[etcpostmaster]

" knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"

Odriscoll may have thought he was being cute here but arrogance and success is putting the tomato in a fruit salad, eating it and enjoying it.... And afterwards saying, " to be honest I knew it would taste good with the rest of the other fruits. It's a fruit."

and then eating some kiwi for dessert

[bugler]

For me, arrogance separates bad rugby people from the good. Any idiot can believe their team is the best, believe they always deserve to win, believe it's all a conspiracy or bad luck when they lose.

To actually look at your team, acknowledge its limitations or faults and still support them is a good and healthy thing.

To look at the opposition, and pay tribute to their skills and ability, and still hope you knock 4 shades of ****e out of them is a good thing.

I don't enjoy talking with arrogant people in the real world, and I don't enjoy "banter" with arrogant fans at a match or on a web forum.

[East Terrace]

I'm assuming this thread has been started by a WUM from outside the province, possibly even Leinster perhaps? Arrogance is a trait best left to your opponents, then do your talking on the field!

[dezzy100]

I dont think Munster people have ever been arogant. One of the reasons that made us what we are. Yes we may have been horrible to play against and didnt let reputation get to us but respect was always there, from players and fans alike

[etcpostmaster]

Bugler,

I respect your views and I'm sure you realize from my post that I'm just joking around. There's a fine line between arrogance and confidence and often times people mix up the two.

The point I'm trying to get across is confidence... In the team,the coaching staff, etc.

We all know our limitations and it's arrogance/ confidence that helps overcome these. Arrogance is maybe the wrong way to go about things but it does come close in hand with confidence. Like I said there is a fine line.

[etcpostmaster]

Btw im not a wum. Just trying to get a point across. I grow tired of the pessimism on this forum ( not by everyone ofcourse) I just feel that supreme confidence is the right way about it.

[dezzy100]

I think the sentiment was right in the original post, and has come across wrong.

[Sketchy]

Bugler,

I respect your views and I'm sure you realize from my post that I'm just joking around. There's a fine line between arrogance and confidence and often times people mix up the two.

The point I'm trying to get across is confidence... In the team,the coaching staff, etc.

We all know our limitations and it's arrogance/ confidence that helps overcome these. Arrogance is maybe the wrong way to go about things but it does come close in hand with confidence. Like I said there is a fine line.

Arrogance is possibly what lost us the 2009 semi in Croker. Arrogance is probably why Leinster look a shadow of their former selves. That quote from BOD about building a dynasty after the Ulster game will be posted on many a dressing room wall this year. When you are arrogant you don't give the opposition the credit they deserve, and it is the next step on the route from confidence to complacency.

[dezzy100]

Why shouldnt they talk about a dynasty? They have won 3 cups with largely the same squad of players. It is hard not to be arrogant when you are as good as they have been, some of their fans may be arrogant, but I wouldnt say the same for their players. Linster look a shadow of theri former selves? Injuries, players bening rusty, or lack of motivation would be more likely than arrogance

[etcpostmaster]

To be perfectly honest I think that not displaying the two stars above our crest shows how arrogant we really are : ) we don't need to display how good we are. People know it ; )

[Dowlinz]

Btw im not a wum. Just trying to get a point across. I grow tired of the pessimism on this forum ( not by everyone ofcourse) I just feel that supreme confidence is the right way about it.

Given all thats happened in the past two years with half our team retiring and many of the remaining struggling with injury it'd be a bit strange to have "supreme confidence". People are fairly grounded because of it, the belief will come back.
Frankly having "supreme confidence" in our current situation would be Liverpool-esque delusion which is never a positive message to send out from a fanbase.

[Sketchy]

Why shouldnt they talk about a dynasty? They have won 3 cups with largely the same squad of players. It is hard not to be arrogant when you are as good as they have been, some of their fans may be arrogant, but I wouldnt say the same for their players. Linster look a shadow of theri former selves? Injuries, players bening rusty, or lack of motivation would be more likely than arrogance

Shadow of their former selves in that their biggest players are close to retirement, their younger players are not quite as good as they thought, and the players brought in are not up to the task. Huge talk of lack of form coming from their camp, from Schimidt, BOD, Easterbunny etc. Their invincibility is waning. And BOD was talking of a dynasty? It just didn't sit right with me when I heard it. If ROG had said something like that in 2008 that would have fuelled the likes of Leinster no end.

[etcpostmaster]

Arrogance is possibly what lost us the 2009 semi in Croker. Arrogance is probably why Leinster look a shadow of their former selves. That quote from BOD about building a dynasty after the Ulster game will be posted on many a dressing room wall this year. When you are arrogant you don't give the opposition the credit they deserve, and it is the next step on the route from confidence to complacency.

I agree that arrogance might have had something to do with that semifinal loss 09 but I think there were much bigger problems that day and Leinster exploited them very efficiently. Our forwards were bullied off the ball and turned over. I believe Leinster had most of the position in the first half which resulted in their first score. Leinsters big runners ran at O Gara and sucked in our back row who where already fighting a losing battle. Our game had become very expansive at the time under mcgahan but this sacrificed our forward play. Leinster also weren't too shabby outwide which the Munster players already knew. I don't think they were arrogant going into that game.they just expected to win and who would blame them? Up until that point they had beaten everyone pretty comprehensively. What Leinster had picked up on was the few occasions that season that Munster had been beaten. Ulster and montauban come to mind( although Munster didn't lose to montauban) teams that beat Munster upfront. Leinster went back to basics

[etcpostmaster]

To say arrogance is a teams downfall would mean the all blacks getting constantly put in their place... Which rarely happens. They consistently beat good sides and I'm pretty sure they have a little bit of arrogance...especially when approaching the record for most test matches in beaten.

[Sketchy]

To say arrogance is a teams downfall would mean the all blacks getting constantly put in their place... Which rarely happens. They consistently beat good sides and I'm pretty sure they have a little bit of arrogance...especially when approaching the record for most test matches in beaten.

To be fair, it's hard to argue against the All Blacks as the case in point. Same with Kilkenny in hurling. But when you are consistently providing a conveyor belt of genuine talent then you can pull it off.

Regarding Munster, we are a long way away from being able to pull off being arrogant. But I know what you mean by your initial post. We need belief first and foremost. There has been a lot of damage to the Munster psyche over the last number of years that needs to be mended. A win against Leinster on Saturday would help, but more importantly 2 from 2 in our HEC openers. We need to get back our love and belief that the HEC is a competition that we relish.

Regarding Leinster, a quality team still, no doubt. I just can't get over their signings to be honest. You have to improve your team every year if you are to repeat what you did the year before. They badly needed to sign a quality and proven centre and a quality and proven 2nd row. That they didn't really surprised me.

[gavindillon]

This has turned out to be a very interesting thread, so here's my two sense (terrible, I know..)

New Zealand are supremely confident, but not arrogant really. Many of their fans are very arrogant, but their fans are not the fifteen on the pitch.
Leinster have some arrogance about them, but again 75% of it is with the fans.
Toulouse have 4 HEC titles and I don't think anyone would call either them or their fans arrogant, what they have is what Munster had a while back, and what I'm really looking forward to seeing again IF we have the form and win ratio to back it up, SWAGGER!!

Jerry Flannery had swagger, but I'd never call him arrogant! When he walked onto a pitch he didn't strut or sashay, he strode.

As the Dos Equis man said: 'We don't always win matches, but when we do, we're pretty awesome'

[Munsterboy]

Arrogance is the offensive display of overbearing confidence or pride.

Confidence is self-belief.

The former is external, the latter internal.

We need the team to have complete confidence but not to behave with arrogance. Confidence serves to strengthen the team's resolve and composure when faced with a difficult opponent or discouraging scoreline. Arrogance only serves to rile the opposition.

Also, arrogant people are w**kers.

[gavindillon]

On the Toulouse note, how many newspaper reports have been alone the lines of 'something something something aristocrats something blah blah roll into town'.

That's what we want newspaper reports saying about Munster away - the munster machine has rolled/steamed into town. Subtext: The Big Boys have Arrive, this is an Event.

[Jackdaniels]

Ah just ban me and get it over with Mr.Chips

REQUEST GRANTED.

[Sketchy]

You dont have to look very far for arrogance
Take the dark overlord of Munsterfans

"MrChips"

If you dont agree with him, your a wum
if you say something he doesnt like, your a tablod hack
If you dont lick his arse and worship at his altar, your banned

Ah just ban me and get it over with Mr.Chips............Sure its all about you anyways isnt it.....

A good Mod should be seen but rarely heard.

I always preferred rice to chips anyways.................

You need help.

[SHRR]

Every nation crows when it has something to crow about regardless of the sport. Thats human nature. The most important thing known to man is, himself.