very proud of the lads for not giving up last night. We are in a much better position his year compared to the doom and gloom at munster during the last few years of McGahan rule. We should have taken the scalps of Leinster and Ulster already this year. Penney has brought back the passion and Hunger. Completely agree that keatley should have started last night although ROG has had so little game time
Ya, the only thing the pack fell down on in open play was not disrupting/stealing their ball enough. We didn't stutter them at all without giving away a penalty. This might sound contradictory but that's why i'd start Varls. I think he will have learned his lesson in terms of the yellow and he was unfortunate to get the brunt of the teams infringements in that respect. I think he and Botha are a quality combination in terms of stealing ball. Perfect height and build for foraging. We need to be more competitive at the breakdown, or else we'll spend the match tackling our way back to our try-line.Originally Posted by joeriddick
Haven't seen this posted yet:
http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/10931.php
Shortly after, Brian O'Driscoll stretched to score despite a smashing Denis Hurley tackle and Damien Varley, only just on as a replacement for Sherry, literally took one for the team, when he was yellow carded. "It (the card) was really hard on Varls today. " Rob Penney said afterwards. " The team warning went out (from the referee). He came on, committed to a breakdown, lost his feet, tried to open up. And at that point the referee'd just had enough obviously. He got the yellow card but it was probably other perpetrators earlier on that did silly things that got reffed to that point where he wanted to shoot a yellow card. Certainly no fingers pointed at Varls."
"It's a real shame we're not leaving without a point." Penney said at the post match Press briefing." I'm really rapt with the guy's attitude towards that last ten minutes. They fought hard to get themselves back into the game and they backed themselves to do well in that last lineout rather than have a shot at goal.
"The pragmatist in me says we should have taken that shot at goal. But it's certainly not something we'll be spending too much time on because the lads backed themselves to play and as I say the opportunity where Casey scored would have been interesting if it had gone to TMO, we might have ended up with the bonus point anyway."
I'll Flake Ya!
http://dontbuythesun.co.uk/1.png
"Be moderate in everything, including moderation." - Horace Porter
Nicely phrased way of saying: it was a try, you twat, use the TMO!
Edit: just realised Hodges was the ref in the West Wales derby who had a lot of fun and games over Stowers swinging an arm at Fenby to prevent a try.
Last edited by Thomond78; 7th-October-2012 at 21:57.
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
Pull out the photo for inspiration you dirty provert
Keatley was good when he came on, I think his speed of passing was the main thing.
Jennings was busy acting the maggot holding players while he was on the ground and the play had moved on, he did it to rog early on. Why he didnt get spoken to by the ref, a dig from a munster player or why someone didnt do the same to sexton to get at him is beyond me
And there's more:
However a few phases later Munster went right and wide. Keith Earls made the break only to be hauled down just short and when the ball popped up Casey Laulala was on hand to grab and score. The whistle had sounded and the expectation was there'd be an adjudication but instead the call was for a knock-on though subsequent video replays showed no evidence of that.
Has the editor been sacked. An adjudication? when has that phrase ever appeared from the bold Pat?
Never mind perception because it isn’t real. It’s only what people think. Go out and make them think something else. Alan Quinlan Irish Times April 24th 2013
Why can't we take our points. if you are 9 points down you need two scores, take a pen when its offered, it only takes a second to score a try. There were 5 minutes left at that stage and we were well on top.
Its not dougie or keatleys fault either poc and doc have made a similar mistake many times. Take the points, if you go for the line or the scrum and screw up then the other side have a huge bounce in their step.
In the last few weeks we have seen a few occasions where sides have lost the advantage in the opponents 22, I think going for the drop in a close game when you are outside the 22 makes a lot of sense. The chances of a try are probably less than that of losing the advantage.
Lastly Downey was signed by Munster with the approval of the PAC effectively the Irish management. Now if Deccie had no time for Downey he wouldnt have come back.
Its clear that the reason why Downey wasn't at 12 is nothing to do with Deccie.
There is some argument that the ROG selection may be influenced by central contracts or Deccie. I don't think thats likely, before Penney got the job he talked to POC and ROG. He knows that ROG is central to Munster, I'm not sure he is confident enough to drop ROG.
...in what way will you feel more Irish if you force me to give up my feeling of being British? - David Ervine
Lastly, for the third game in a row we have finished with a stronger side than we started with.Of the subs that were used imho only DOC going off might have weakened the side.
Hopefully against Racing we will start with our strongest side. Win that and we can have a bit more freedom at home to Edinburgh. Lose it and the season becomes harder
...in what way will you feel more Irish if you force me to give up my feeling of being British? - David Ervine
Must be a worry then when such a poor team can win then??
So how come with Darcy at 12 for Leinster who isn't a gainline player like Downey have Leinster done so well?
Not a great game but a decent result. Didn't expect 30 points and 3 tries wth the Leinster team out.
To see us playing about 15 mins with a team of HVDM, Cronin, Hagan, Toner, Brown/Denton, Murphy, Jennings, Heaslip, Reddan, Sexton, Carr, McFadden, Reid, Cooney, Madigan gives an indication as to what Munster were playing in the last 15/20 mins....a team with 5 starters in it......That needs to be taken into account when people are thinking that Munster played well in the last 20 mins.....
Who are the 5 you are referring to AD?
The 5 at the end were Jennings, Heaslip, Reddan, Sexton and Toner....
Ah, classic AD. Tell you what; do we scratch every game where we were missing players, then? Can't go moaning these guys are overlooked test standard with one breath and imply they're crap with the next, boy.
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
I'm stating that if people are thinking that all is good because you had a very good last 20 mins and it's the way to go and will make you succeed next week etc then you need to look at what you were playing....It's like saying cause guys played well against Treviso/Leinster reserves it's like playing well against Osprey's/Leinster full team....
Last edited by Aussiedub; 8th-October-2012 at 08:19.
Are people really saying it's all good though? Or are you confusing people saying we've reasons to be optimistic with people saying everything's awesome?
It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
Every plan I have is the best plan in the room. Everybody get quiet and listen to it, and everybody will win
Took a step back on Saturday evening after the loss to let the dust fully settle on this one here.
My thoughts on Munster are as follows:
We are a bit off the pace at the moment,Penney has a hell of a lot of work to do with the players he has inherited. I was getting very optimistic with the early seasons matches up until Ospreys away but the same old issues keep resurfacing.
Our scrum is a major worry and any half decent unit is going to cause us major issues going into the HC. Kilcoyne needs this season to progress,if he gets a few mullerings over the season so be it,but thats the only way he will learn. I decided to lay off Archer over the next while for the same reason,but I am not convinced. I just don't want us starting again in a seasons time in the same position. I stick with my assumption that we will NOT get an NIQ TH next season as it stands,unless we get some serious disponsation from the IRFU. People can complain continiously about refs etc,but the long and the short of it is that our scrum has looked very dodgy at the best of times.
Our back line that was purring a few weeks back,is now stuttering,for whatever reason everyone seems to have their own opinion. I said a few weeks back that an injury free Downey will be worth his weight in gold to us this season and he will. People have been harping on about Laulala at 12 but the long and the short is that Penney has not got strength in depth here with quality 12's. Laulala is here on a two year deal so those are the cards dealt to us for this season and next.
I have no idea what to say about number 10 at this stage,it has been done to death here over the last fortnight.Has ROG something left in the tank?, Is he struggling because our backrow is not powerful enough,possibly?. I do know that as this season rolls by that a firm decision has to be made by Penney now on this. I believe we have to play to the strengths of our squad this season and looking at the last two games Keatley looks the better option as it stands.He alternates his game and the opposition defence find it harder to deal with,ROG at present can be read like a book which is troublesome. Is Keatley an amazing player? No but he has been the more consistent from game time so far.
I agree with Outlaw on Dougal,he needs a bit more bulk,but he is a great find all the same. Butler will be even better but he needs a season at least to properly find his feet,he is only 22. We badly miss Coughlan,we really do. DOC2 is progressing away but he needs to really start stepping up in the big games. Having Stander coming in should provide a huge boost,add in POM now back and Coughlan to be back sometime in November and things look a bit better here.
The one factor we should not forget though in terms of the Rabo is that we have lost 3 games away to probably the three strongest teams in the league IMO. People are looking at 3 losses,in terms of doom and gloom.But it is 3 losses all away to Ulster,Ospreys and Leinster.
Peoples aspirations for the season seemed to have heightened incorrectly from the early Rabo games. But we beat a poor Dragons,a second string Treviso and an away win in Edinburgh. We knew before the season started that our early season was incredibly difficult,but here we are in the run up to the Racing game in a bit of a muddle. As I said above,we have badly missed Couglan and will miss him big time over the next few weeks,our IRFU player are integrating back into the team and we have POC to come in hopefully this week.
I think we have decent options in our backline to progress onwards from here,our axis at 9-10 though is the key to getting the performance for the rest of the season. I do believe we have the capability to score tries from anywhere with the players we have. I think folks are very harsh on Hurley and have been consistently for a long number of years. Going by the number of games he has started at FB ,he WILL be our FB going forward. Earls or Laulala at 13? Who cares Penney will decide that.
Patience is required from all including myself.Penney has had a good chance now to see most of his options properly over the last few weeks. Hopefully the big calls will be made and we move forward from here. We will see more losses during the year,but hopefully,we will be able to accept them if the performances are up to scratch and improving.Improvement match on match is the key from here to Christmas for starters. We don't have the squad to win the HC and we will find it hard to get out of our group,but improvement is the key. A lot of work must be done on our pack+scrum,we need to be competitive here to have a platform to win games. Just a platform and leave 9-15 to do what they can do best.
Those are my thoughts anyway...
Otaga Daily Times 2/5/2012
Taz-Where did you get that information as I have seen nowhere that he(Penney) was ruled out?
Editor - The writer stands by the Penney information.
Otaga Daily Times 3/5/2012
Editor-- This article originally said Rob Penney had missed out on the Munster coaching job. That information was incorrect.
No. No-one is. But then, it's AD: everything has to be hammered into the "Red bad, Blue AWESOME!" mould. You notice how he largely disappeared until they got the win? Say what you like about OD - and I will, and do, with unrestrained glee and gusto - but at least he stood his ground through those losses.
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
Sorry but some of us take holidays and aren't on here all the time.....I was on after the Connaght game saying it was disgraceful and admittedly praying that ROG would start for Munster as a Leinster supporter but hoping Keatley would start from an Irish perspective.....
Considering you thought that the following how do you explain getting beaten up for 50 mins or so with so many front line players playing???Originally Posted by Thomond78
Good back row, but light on first-line carriers. So-so front row. Healy a massive loss for them. Weak second row, to be honest. Good halfbacks at this level. Big difference in the centres in terms of ability: think Sexton will be doing a lot of defensive work in the 12 channel. Pretty weak back three, with the best player and best counter-attacker in it out of position. The bench is a major drop-off.
Sorry, I thought your entire point WAS that the bench was a major drop-off? Or would accepting that spoil the narrative of "Red bad"?
Oh, and: it's Connacht. Connaught is a London hotel or a Delhi circus.
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
There is reason to be hopeful but there needs to be a hell of a lot of improvement. It's easy to look good against the weaker teams but it needs to be done against the top teams to be getting optimistic.....Too much hope/hype I believe has come from beating Treviso/Edinburgh etc....
You have got 4 key players you can't afford to get injured and if 1 or more get injured there will be serious trouble - BJ, Murray, Keatley, Downey as there are no replacements that meet Penny's requirements. Does Penny see Keatley/Downey as starters though? I also think in terms of ball carrying you don't have the big ball carriers in the pack either.
WDP made a big difference to the scrum on his introduction, if Penney was really intent on winning the game
would he have not started WPD.. Dont get me wrong Kilcoyne has big potential but going up against Mike Ross
was a huge ask..
Yes the bench was a major drop off and it was whilst that was on that you came back into the game....so whilst we had no ball carriers, a poor 2nd row, poor centres and a weak back 3 we still dominated you and only when we had our poor bench on you came back into the game? Surely that implies that being optimistic based on a good 20 mins against a weakened team isn't the best thing to be?
A more experienced prop would have sorted out the bind on the arm (mind you, a more experienced red would have spotted it instead of assuming, but, what the hell, when the message got across he was reffing the scrum on rep BJ became every bit as illegal). It'll come, and quickly. Good experience for him. We're quietly building quite a block of under-25 IQ props who can certainly live at the top level for 40 minutes already.
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
Zebo was in front of us and looked to be struggling/limping quite badly with the knock he took,. even though he played well
he was left on for an age before being replaced. His injury could have ended up alot worse..
I am reasonably happy with progress to date. Experience is being gained in hard away games - Ulster, Ospreys and Leinster. The only part I do not like is the fact that the ball is going backwards and forwards across the line aka Mc Gahanball. Somebody has to make the breaks in the line and ROG is the first one, then Casey/Downey (when allowed) and at the latest Earls. If the gameplan is not changed then any Defence will just drift across the field and all of the hard work is for nought. I expected this to be sorted much earlier by Mannix.
It is very difficult for an inexperienced backrow like DOC2 and Butler to have the knowledge of how to deal with Jennings, Heaslip etc who are long time Pros but it will come with time and we need to be patient with this Team. If they get to the Rabo Final 4 and Q/Fs of the HCUP that will be an achievement in itself.
A lot of what has been put on here was unfair on ROG. He had Wally in the past who protected him and the gameplan was to use him to do the set up but not involved in it.He will have to adapt to hold his position at 10 which I would say that he will do but again it takes time.
Time and experience is the key and the change will come as the Team is now very young !!!
I think it depends.
Of our starting pack, Kilcoyne, Sherry, DOCv2.0, Dougall and even POM aren't hugely experienced players. Only one is an International and that's mostly down to his potential. Do you want me to put up bunting for Leinster beating a pack with 5 kids in it? However, all 5 have decent prospects, they are at the point where their careers could go either way, but right now they have a lot of potential. Only POM will make the AI starting squad, imo, and even that's uncertain.
Tbf, Leinster should be asking themselves how a pack of kids stopped them getting the bonus point, Schmidt out etc.
It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
Every plan I have is the best plan in the room. Everybody get quiet and listen to it, and everybody will win
Was bad enough being in the aviva the other night, but to have in front of us a row of daddys girls from d4 who only discovered rugby 2 years ago an they sipping there wine was a horrific experience. "is darcy gone off ? " an he not even in squad! Or when Rog went for the drop goal when the ref had his arm out for penalty advantage "how come hes getting a 2nd chance?" I pity the poor lad in the Munster top who was alongside them and eventually snapped a bit an explained some rules!!
As for the game i dont think Rog actually kicked a ball off a scrum in 1st half, has he been told to do this or is it he just cant kick any more . Theres times i think Laulala got a bit isolated taking on too much himself. I hope Sherry is fit for Saturday, didnt look too good as he limped off.
P.S Anyone know how the magpie fared after? (he covered every inch of the pitch during game)
I dont think we have hit rock bottom yet. As some other posters pointed out just look at the Leinster team we played? They are down to bear bones but yet comfortably beat us. They play a large part of their game with their 3rd choice outhalf at 15 3 choice scrum half at 14, missing 3 probable starting Lions etc etc. We have what I call Liverpool FC syndrome, which is sure we will rebuild and be back next season (1989).
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