Plenty of exciting and positive attitudes at the moment, so I said I'd continue the theme.
4 rounds in and certainly early days, but IK tops the Golden Boot table for the Pro Rabbi League. I think most of us are agreed that, having very special boots to fill, he is having an electric opening to his season! Go n'eirí an t-áth leis!
http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/statz...olden_boot.php
Céard a ceapfá, Jerry?
Paul O'Connell can get toothpaste out of an onion. Fact.
He's started the season well, as he did last season. Hopefully he'll progress better from here than he did from there.
And christ at those Priestland stats, he's a dreadful outhalf in almost every sense.
I'm sometimes confused at keatley.. For a relatively large unit, I was a bit shocked to see him going through the gears there on the weekend during that electric break he made, but we don't always see that when he's playing at 10. If he's the kind of player that builds pace over 20m instead of 5 (ala Bo'D), then there is a huge case for playing him wider.. that class tackle the week before further evidence of this. He didn't have enough ball kicked to him at 15 to merit his selection a huge success, but I'd be happy to see him there again.
Now that I think of it, I wouldn't mind seeing him anywhere in the backline, bar winger, where we clearly have pace already.
Last edited by mtcmolloy; 28th-September-2012 at 09:50.
It will be nice to see IK wrapping around and hitting the holes caused by the opposition double teaming Downey and sh*tting themselves up against the Earl. Lots of moves in the locker I should imagine ready for LR and Paris.
I greatly look forward to the facial dismay when everyone tackles Downey believing he is the yard-maker having being released by Keatley, only to be ninja'd by the Earl from an All Blacks-esque offload. I'm actually quivering in anticipation..
Céard a ceapfá, Jerry?
Paul O'Connell can get toothpaste out of an onion. Fact.
Let's hope that unlike last season, he doesn't get dumped from the starting 15 once the centrally contracted player is back with the consequences for ones motivation and confidence that inevitably brings. Oh i forgot, you are hoping for that!Originally Posted by Dowlinz
Seriously though let's hope both our 10's play fantastically and push each other hard. Keatley has done his part so far. Up to ROG to deliver tomorrow.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again (like picking Gordon D'Arcy) and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein
I seem to recall Keatley crying off a few times last year due to illness. Its understandable that ROG was preferred because Murray was relatively inexperienced and what with POC & Dougie out injured/retired (and Wally, Ronan, Coughlan, Fla & Leamy), ROG was one of the last senior players left standing.
The thought of JJ should keep him honest.
THE IRISH WOULD HAVE RULED THE WORLD, IF THEY NEVER INVENTED THE PUB
After last night, the pecking order needs to be Keatley, JJ and ROG in that order.
ROG is finished even at Rabo level.
Very early in the season to be writing him off like that, I think.
"We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow
"Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy
Surprised at the level of criticism for O'Gara, he's often played worse than that in the league. He's not a comp he rates and has stunk it up for years now.
Hopefully Keatley can show enough that O'Gara will have to improve his game to hold onto the HEC spot. I don't think Keatley has really controlled a game this season yet, yesterday's cameo might have been exciting to watch it but it wasn't all that effective.
It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
Every plan I have is the best plan in the room. Everybody get quiet and listen to it, and everybody will win
Keatley might not have been wholly effective but he showed more effectiveness than O'Gara had for the previous 60 minutes and that's the only criteria to judge it on.
ROG might very well not rate the Rabo but the team should move beyond hoping that he can ramp up his performance at will for the HEC two weeks later. Besides that, will him being "up" for the HEC suddenly make him stand 20 yards closer to the gainline?
Keatley isn't the messiah but he's a better option right now for our young backrow. I'd prefer our 6,7 & 8 concentrate on their own game then dedicating a portion of their energy to watching ROG's defensive channel and clearing out rucks 10 yards behind the last one.
To The Brave and the Faithful, Nothing is Unpublishable.
Either was ROG before him.
I think the major question is can RO'G play the game Penney wants the team to play. On the evidence so far, you'd have to No to that. If we were still playing a forward oriented game with a pack willing & able to kick the sh*te of our opponents, playing teritory and raking up points with the boot, then you'd have a point about ROG being able to step up for HEC games. Now though, this is far from sure and I would even say highly unlikely. he was truly impotent last night and it wasn't for lack of trying IMO.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again (like picking Gordon D'Arcy) and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein
the issues relate to areas where ROG isn't going to change, he's not going to become more physical, quicker, a running threat etc, he hasn't been for 3-4 years now why would that change?
\"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"
What is Posivity and where did we get all the Rabbis?(am on the ferry home and completely bored)
Cowardice lasts longer than Pain
I think O'Gara's time is up, but conversely, last night was set up to not suit him as much as he doesn't suit the new game plan. We should have started POM at 7 and Downey and ideally Murray would have been fit to play. I still reckon Penney all but threw the game to see different options, hopefully we're wiser for it.
It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
Every plan I have is the best plan in the room. Everybody get quiet and listen to it, and everybody will win
Those issues haven't gone away for the ten years or so that he's been one of the top fly halves in the game.
Yes, he's probably fading a bit, but he's several games behind those around him both in terms of match fitness and adjusting to the new system.
If he doesn't get up to pace, then the criticism will be warranted.
But the notion that he's gone away for a few weeks and simply lost the ability to play rugby is pretty much standard Munsterfans overstatement.
"We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow
"Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy
JR - do you not think that if ROG was standing that deep there's probably some thought and discussion gone into it?
He's never been afraid to play flat.
I'm not sure we have enough info to judge based on last night. We've put in some of our worst performances away in Wales over the years, with the whole team playing like ****e - even when we were winning Heineken Cups.
"We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow
"Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy
I think he played where he did last night to avoid the Offsidesprays blitz and dink over the top when possible. That's what you have to do with ROG at FH.
I think, and this is only my opinion, that in a KO game against the 'Sprays Penney would start Keatley.
Horses for courses.
To The Brave and the Faithful, Nothing is Unpublishable.
Both RoG and Strings struggled behind a pack going backwards last night ... Keats came in, did well, but so did many guys who made a difference and who maybe should have been sent on piece meal before that .. certainly Wian was bullied last night and Botha should have started the second half... but to early to be calling RoG past it ... its our back row i'd be most worried about .. Stander cant arrive soon enough.
Keats has stepped up to the mark this season and should be started against Leinster, Downing ic with Laulala outside him .. if Zebo is fit ... I'd start him at FULLBACK (there.. I said it !)... and give the wing to Earlsy. .. simple as.
Calm yourself sir.. you\'re going to give yourself skin failure.
I'd be very worried if ROG sitting that far back and then passing to someone miles behind the gainline with the Ospreys midfield and backrow on top of them was our considered approach to the game.
Shameless self promotion time ladies and gents!
Munster: Early Season
Munster: Escape from Pool of Death
Munster: HEC Champions 2007/2008
Munster: Full Season Highlights.
But the alternative is that he was told to play flat and either didn't choose to or couldn't.
I'm not saying it was a good approach. Just that it's likely that the intention was to achieve something that didn't emerge and therefore evades our attempts to analyse.
"We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow
"Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy
Leave the individual players aside for a moment and compare the style of rugby we played in the first three matches and that we played against O's . What enthused a lot of posters was our style, ball in hand, off loading & expansive last Sat was back to last season . The performance in the Ulster away game against a serious side was top notch , DOC2 , Dougal & Butler stood up to Ferris & Williams . Two other stand out features that night were our line speed in defence and our aggression at the breakdown
Keatley brings solidity in defence as well as pace , a break and willingness to play on the gainline . The other backs have shone with him at 10 , while it was Zebo who shone with Rog .
I agree with you that Rog is not finished , RM away at the SdeF will be a serious test of bottle and we know that Rog will kick the points if selected , Keatley is kicking well but has never faced that kind of pressure . I am prepared to take the risk on the younger players like Keatley,Dougal & Doc2 because they are in form , the future and like POM & Zebo last year believe they will make the grade .
I'd stick with Keatley too, to be honest. He's had more time to adapt to the game plan, and has played well. Terrible tendency here, though, for people to feel the need to put the boot into one player to make an argument for another.
"We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow
"Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy
Posivity was a word I was sure was in the Oxford Dictionary which had a more active meaning that positivity, which is more a state of mind. In hindsight I can't seem to find it and may have invented it without realising!
My friend from America was living here around the time of the Magners/Pro12 changeover and every time she mentioned the name of the league she would say something a little different. It was an hilarious running joke. My favourite is still the Robocop 12. Apologies for the in-jokes.
In other news I'm also very surprised at the O'Gara criticisms. Many people on this forum have stated a need for patience all round with the new coach and his systems. One bad performance and some of those people forget about having that patience. We had a bad night against the reigning champions. We will regroup and get better, and so will ROG when he gets up to speed.
The Ospreys have been an awful thorn in our side since 2010. I remember getting up early to watch the World Cup match against Wales and feeling bitterly disappointed by an abject performance. Later that day I went to Limerick from Cork hoping for some rugby salvation against the Welsh as we were playing the Ospreys that night. We had a very broken, scrappy match and lost solidly. I won't even mention the Rabo semi-final of last year. They've had our measure for some time now and until the team gets used to all the new Penney systems they will probably continue to do so.
Céard a ceapfá, Jerry?
Paul O'Connell can get toothpaste out of an onion. Fact.
I think the difference is that where other players have shown a change in their playing style or improved performances which according to the broad consensus on here more or less reflects the new approach brought by Penney and Mannix, ROG has in his three (well, two & a bit) outings to date seemed to play pretty much the way he was playing in the latter stages of last season. Plus he's yet to put in a performance that has people saying "wow, he did really well there, hope to see more of that" the way we have for so many other players in a similarly short space of time. I'm not writing him off but I really want to see him settle into a groove of impressive performances.
One thing occurred to me earlier today - I wonder whether his comparative mediocrity thus far may relate to his previously expressed attitude to the league, i.e. "using it as preparation for the HEC". I was rightly pissed off when I heard about that at the time, and I sure hope that it's no longer the case. We need everyone giving it their absolute all from day dot this season.
Never mind perception because it isn’t real. It’s only what people think. Go out and make them think something else.
- Alan Quinlan on believing in yourself
Preach, brother, preach!!
I accept the ROG crticisms for the most part, it was just that the thread was started in a positive vein, and I didn't want a pro-Keatley thread to turn into an anti-ROG thread.
I hope, some performances aside, that the psychology espoused and utilised is that each player is giving their all. We can't have attitudes which would use the league as a launch-pad for the HEC. Games are games, either you win or you lose! The time is nigh for the squad to decide that ultimate ass-kickery is now our only modus operandi...
Céard a ceapfá, Jerry?
Paul O'Connell can get toothpaste out of an onion. Fact.
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