33-strong Ireland squad for a two day training and preparation camp

[Sketchy]

The idea of moving BOD is madness - He had two poor games and one top class game down under last summer. He's still the best 13 in Ireland.
We can utilise Earls better anyways on the wing.

Earls is the best 13 in Ireland at the moment if you ask me. And will BOD be around in 2015? No. We need to move on and go with form and out and out pace at 13. We've given up Earls' development for quite some time persevering with BOD at 13. The return isn't there any more. That gametime, especially in the Ais, would be far better spent on developing Earls' into a worldclass 13. At the very least both should be given equal opportunity for the jersey.

[Mcork]

i think kidney has been taking him for granted, and EOS before him. If he could walk he has started for the past half dozen odd years, not his fault. EOS and Kidney were the ones responsible for developing a squad. I agree his form has been poor at times and Downey should have got a run on several different occasions in recent years.

However, I cannot let it slide that people here criticise this guys commitment when he put down an Italian to stop a try with a broken arm a few years ago in the 6 nations. Get a grip.

i certainly agree that the coaches are responsible for picking him and sticking with him even when he stank. Perhaps they thought they were doing him a favour. They weren't - he needed to be challenged more. He has fallen off so many straightforward tackles in the last few seasons, i've lost count. Ok he's lost physicality & pace etc but it's perfectly legitimate to question his commitment after the last 6n's. Read betwen the lines of what BOD said during the week. He said basically some of the players were guilty of 'taking their Irish place for granted' and puting the provinces first. I remember D'arcy on the radio after the last defeat to Wales (i still him more for that 'tackle' on North - it was his tackle to make). He was happy with how he himself and the team played. Not a bother on him - knew he wouldn't be replaced. We can blame kidney and the lack of alternatives for that but his attitude was poor for me. I don't believe his commitment was at the level it should have been at. That can happen players when they are not seriously challenged for their place. I'm pretty sure he won't lose sleep over my opinion but i'm entitled to it and make no apologies about it.

And yes Downey should start the next Irish match. His form for northampton for years has merited it and his brief spell at munster has just confirmed that kidney was mistaken to ignore him. Now is not the time to compound errors for kidney.

[Mcork]

Earls is the best 13 in Ireland at the moment if you ask me. And will BOD be around in 2015? No. We need to move on and go with form and out and out pace at 13. We've given up Earls' development for quite some time persevering with BOD at 13. The return isn't there any more. That gametime, especially in the Ais, would be far better spent on developing Earls' into a worldclass 13. At the very least both should be given equal opportunity for the jersey.

Agree with this to an extent. Due to who he is and what he has achieved, I think BOD should be given the benefit of the doubt regarding the NZ debacle but Earl's form cannot be ignored indefinetly. We need BOD to deliver what the BOD of 2 or 3 years ago delivered. Just for clarity i don't doubt for a second, BOD's commitment but his body has gone through far more than what is reasonable at this stage. It would be a mistake to prevent Earls from getting the exposure he needs at the top level now that he is in the form of his life. Perhaps they should get 1 game each in the AI'S. BOD v SA and Earls v Arg both outside Downey.

[The Outlaw]

Earls is the best 13 in Ireland at the moment if you ask me. And will BOD be around in 2015? No. We need to move on and go with form and out and out pace at 13. We've given up Earls' development for quite some time persevering with BOD at 13. The return isn't there any more. That gametime, especially in the Ais, would be far better spent on developing Earls' into a worldclass 13. At the very least both should be given equal opportunity for the jersey.

But did he not play on the wing for Munster recently? Will he definitely start ahead of Casey. He has to play 13 for Munster all the time to start for Ireland because we can say with absolute certainty BOD will be Leinster's no 13 unless he gets injured

[Bosco]

He came on on the wing in his first game early to replace O'Dea who went off injured. He started his second game @13.

I agree that he needs to be playing predominantly at 13 for him to be considered for Ireland, but I don't think anyone can make a call on where Penny sees earls future until after the next 3 or 4 games. Currently he has 10 players pushing for 6 spots, and that's not including the likes of Dineen, Scanlon Barnes jj and Jones who have yet to get a real chance to put their hands up.


Barring a complete melt down in form BOD is going to be Ireland's first choice 13 this year in the big games, but I would hope that kidney gives Earls a decent shot in the other games, Earls was One of Ireland's better players in last years 6N

[Waterfordlad]

Earls is the best 13 in Ireland at the moment if you ask me. And will BOD be around in 2015? No. We need to move on and go with form and out and out pace at 13. We've given up Earls' development for quite some time persevering with BOD at 13. The return isn't there any more. That gametime, especially in the Ais, would be far better spent on developing Earls' into a worldclass 13. At the very least both should be given equal opportunity for the jersey.

I'm a fan of Earls but writing BOD off now is madness. He is our Captain and deserves to show his form this season before full changes are made.

No issue with trying Earls at 13 v Arg for example - we have to build for the future - but BOD doesn't deserve to be dropped yet - he will be a man on a mission to play himself into the Lions squad this season

[Major TNT]

Darcy imo shouldnt be there. Is finished at international level.
No Madigan, Keatley or Jackson is a bit mad, even to give them experience of a get together like this.
On current prospects you,d think one of them will be going to next world cup. Why not get them in there now.

[Sketchy]

I'm a fan of Earls but writing BOD off now is madness. He is our Captain and deserves to show his form this season before full changes are made.

No issue with trying Earls at 13 v Arg for example - we have to build for the future - but BOD doesn't deserve to be dropped yet - he will be a man on a mission to play himself into the Lions squad this season

I don't mean to write BOD off. If he is playing better than Earls then we should go with him. But if Earls is playing better which I feel he has in the last 12 months, then I don't think BOD shoud be given the jersey just because he is who he is. I don't think BOD needs game time in the Ais. The argument that we have World Cup rankings is weak as Earls has arguably has more to offer at this stage of their respective careers. Let form in the provinces dictate who gets the nod for the 6 nations then. It has to be based on merit, not on giving the best player we've had the perfect end to his career. That is all well and good but it is a professional outfit, the best player should take the jersey. For me that's the Earl.

[FORWARD....]

Darcy imo shouldnt be there. Is finished at international level.
No Madigan, Keatley or Jackson is a bit mad, even to give them experience of a get together like this.
On current prospects you,d think one of them will be going to next world cup. Why not get them in there now.

You are absolutely correct IMHO. I don't know what Deccie is at.

[Sketchy]

But did he not play on the wing for Munster recently? Will he definitely start ahead of Casey. He has to play 13 for Munster all the time to start for Ireland because we can say with absolute certainty BOD will be Leinster's no 13 unless he gets injured

I suspect he will for the crunch games.

[Benji]

Interesting comments by some lads on the correct centre pairing for Ireland for the coming season.
Downey, I dont think he was great last year in the A.P. He needs to have a few great games with Munster and then he can be considered. Kidney isnt going to play him because his just back in Ireland. We need to see more. His a big unit and would be great if he can step up.
Bod. Ive matched him so far this season and the one thing that he has been doing that he wasnt really doing last year, His made a few great breaks and running great lines. I think Bod missed too much rugby last year due to injury. He looks keen at the moment. I would only play him for one of the Ai matches.
Earls. He had a few good games last year but was also badly hit with injuries. His looked great on the wings and thats where I see his future. If you watch a game and look at the way he defends he needs to improve more for 13. His got the speed to recover on the wing. Any mistakes at 13 are usually fatal.
Earls needs a run of games with Munster at 13 if his too get a grip of the position. I cant see Kidney picking him over Bod if his no even Munster 1st choice 13. He could yet turn out to be a great 13 but on what Ive seen his been a better wing. He needs time.
Darcy, His had his moments and Ive never doubted his effort with Ireland but we need to make a change. Kidney needs to look at options while keeping Darcy nearby in case of fire. We dont have many options at 12.
Bowe, Its been a long time since his been fully fit and even when he was he was in bad form. He wouldnt be an automatic choice for me.

[Thomond78]

i certainly agree that the coaches are responsible for picking him and sticking with him even when he stank. Perhaps they thought they were doing him a favour. They weren't - he needed to be challenged more. He has fallen off so many straightforward tackles in the last few seasons, i've lost count. Ok he's lost physicality & pace etc but it's perfectly legitimate to question his commitment after the last 6n's. Read betwen the lines of what BOD said during the week. He said basically some of the players were guilty of 'taking their Irish place for granted' and puting the provinces first. I remember D'arcy on the radio after the last defeat to Wales (i still him more for that 'tackle' on North - it was his tackle to make). He was happy with how he himself and the team played. Not a bother on him - knew he wouldn't be replaced. We can blame kidney and the lack of alternatives for that but his attitude was poor for me. I don't believe his commitment was at the level it should have been at. That can happen players when they are not seriously challenged for their place. I'm pretty sure he won't lose sleep over my opinion but i'm entitled to it and make no apologies about it.

And yes Downey should start the next Irish match. His form for northampton for years has merited it and his brief spell at munster has just confirmed that kidney was mistaken to ignore him. Now is not the time to compound errors for kidney.

Thing is, Mcork, "looks fine at Pro12 therefore a test player" is merely a variation on the "looks fine at HEC therefore a test player" that you criticise as being a fallacy with D'Arcy.

Give him a run against Fiji, yes: but reserve judgement until after that.

[the plastic paddy]

Thing is, Mcork, "looks fine at Pro12 therefore a test player" is merely a variation on the "looks fine at HEC therefore a test player" that you criticise as being a fallacy with D'Arcy.

Give him a run against Fiji, yes: but reserve judgement until after that.

What is the extent of D'Arcy's injury?

[HenryFitz]

What is the extent of D'Arcy's injury?

Might play this weekend, I heard.

[<BM>]

Thing is, Mcork, "looks fine at Pro12 therefore a test player" is merely a variation on the "looks fine at HEC therefore a test player" that you criticise as being a fallacy with D'Arcy.

Give him a run against Fiji, yes: but reserve judgement until after that.

There's no certainty about any alternative options at 12. It would seem reasonable to reserve judgement until we actually see them in green and you're spot on identifying the double standards between talking D'Arcy's level down from international to Pro12/HEC while supporting anothers international credentials with just Pro12/HEC/AP rugby. However we need an opportunity to make that judgement. The only certainty at 12 is that D'Arcy has been unreliable for several years. Downey to bench against SA and get 20 minutes if D'Arcy turns up but longer if D'Arcy has a 'mare. A full 80 against Fiji and the form player of the 2 to get the shirt against the Pumas.

[Aussiedub]

Does anyone think that a 10/12 mixture of Sexton/Keatley might work?

[Sketchy]

Does anyone think that a 10/12 mixture of Sexton/Keatley might work?

I've always wanted to see Keatley tried at 12. He has all the attributes for a quality 12 and he is a big lad capable of coping with the physical demands of the position. But until it happens at Munster it is never going to happen for Ireland.

[i_like_cake]

Has Keatley ever played 12 schools, academy or Connacht...?

[Thomond78]

Does anyone think that a 10/12 mixture of Sexton/Keatley might work?

Oh, look who's jumped on my 5/8th bandwagon...

[Thomond78]

Has Keatley ever played 12 schools, academy or Connacht...?

Not to the best of my knowledge, but I'm sure someone will know.

[sewa]

Does anyone think that a 10/12 mixture of Sexton/Keatley might work?

No

[Red Hand Hero]

Has Keatley ever played 12 schools, academy or Connacht...?

Played there for the U-19's in Dubai if I'm not mistaken but was then moved into the 10 role for the U-20's and beyond.

[<BM>]

Has Keatley ever played 12 schools, academy or Connacht...?

Outlaw will have the full facts but he was played out of position a lot one season out west and I'd be surprised if he hadn't played a game or two there.

[Benji]

Outlaw will have the full facts but he was played out of position a lot one season out west and I'd be surprised if he hadn't played a game or two there.

I think when Elwood was messing with him he had him at 15 for a few games. I do think he probably played in the centre once but it was more changes during the game.
In Leinster, He was at ten

[Sketchy]

Has Keatley ever played 12 schools, academy or Connacht...?

I know his brothers' mates quite well. I was asking them about this some time ago. Apparently Leinster asked him if he would consider playing 12 because of Sexton being seen as the number 1 choice. He turned it down and said he wanted to continue to make the 10 position. It wasn't long after that he moved out to Connacht, where he made the 10 jersey his own for the Weshties. So unfortunately he seems to have no interest in playing there. I wouldn't blame him. It's a horrible position. As a 13 myself I always hated whenever I was put in 12. Very specialist position. That's why in many ways I feel sorry for D'Arcy. Fantastic winger and FB at schoolboy level, used to open spaces, thrown into a tight channel and physical environment. It's a credit to him that he was able to excel in that position, even if it was quite some time ago. D'Arcy in open spaces was always when he was most dangerous.

[Aussiedub]

Well now that Munsterfans are realising that ball movement and not kicking to the corners is the way to go and that ROG isn't good enough anymore (for most fans) for Munster how many will be wanting him in the Ireland team now going forward and think that kicking the ball to touch is the way to go forward for Ireland??

[Waterfordlad]

Of course it is AD

[Evil Omer]

I know his brothers' mates quite well. I was asking them about this some time ago. Apparently Leinster asked him if he would consider playing 12 because of Sexton being seen as the number 1 choice. He turned it down and said he wanted to continue to make the 10 position. It wasn't long after that he moved out to Connacht, where he made the 10 jersey his own for the Weshties. So unfortunately he seems to have no interest in playing there. I wouldn't blame him. It's a horrible position. As a 13 myself I always hated whenever I was put in 12. Very specialist position. That's why in many ways I feel sorry for D'Arcy. Fantastic winger and FB at schoolboy level, used to open spaces, thrown into a tight channel and physical environment. It's a credit to him that he was able to excel in that position, even if it was quite some time ago. D'Arcy in open spaces was always when he was most dangerous.

absolutely spot on for me, d'Arcy was at least as good if not better than Jason Robinson, until Irish rugby decided to make him into a donkey

I may be wrong but IIRC did Keatley play 13 a little bit for Connacht?

[The Outlaw]

I know his brothers' mates quite well. I was asking them about this some time ago. Apparently Leinster asked him if he would consider playing 12 because of Sexton being seen as the number 1 choice. He turned it down and said he wanted to continue to make the 10 position. It wasn't long after that he moved out to Connacht, where he made the 10 jersey his own for the Weshties. So unfortunately he seems to have no interest in playing there. I wouldn't blame him. It's a horrible position. As a 13 myself I always hated whenever I was put in 12. Very specialist position. That's why in many ways I feel sorry for D'Arcy. Fantastic winger and FB at schoolboy level, used to open spaces, thrown into a tight channel and physical environment. It's a credit to him that he was able to excel in that position, even if it was quite some time ago. D'Arcy in open spaces was always when he was most dangerous.

He played 13 for Connacht in a few games. He is not suited to the position based on seeing him play there. He is a specialist 10 IMO.

[etcpostmaster]

I don't see the problem with experimenting during the Guinness series. With that attitude in mind, what harm would it have done to have Downy, Keatly, Jackson and Madigan in the squad. I haven't seen Madigan but the others have been playing well. ROG shouldn't be anywhere near the Irish team on current form. I cannot see the logic of including any player in the squad who hasn't been performing over a player in the same position who has. It's insane. I see Hurely has been selected in the squad but does Kidney have the balls to actually play him in any games? From what I ve seen from kidney, hell no. And this means he ll probably play someone out of position ( looks like earls) rather than playing a specialist fullback who has been performing in hurley. What's the worst that can happen? If he doesn't perform at least kidney can say he tried some new players.