I know thats what the papers are saying but I'd be surprised if that turned out to be the case. If Kidney believed Sexton had the bottle and temperament to cope at the very highest level why did he drop him at the business end of the world cup? We've only played 8 games since then and only won two of those, whats changed? The public have rarely been satisfied with him and his tenure at 10 for Ireland has overseen a very dark period. A great club player but to reward what he's done on the international stage with captaincy would be an incredible decision to say the least.
Heaslip at the very least has held his position in the starting line up for some time, that's about where his captaincy credentials end though.
Seems from the things Kidney has been saying in the press recently that he might be looking at Earls, which I don't think any of us expected. Interesting if true, and I suppose if nothing else it's a sign of how he has been maturing as a player and exerting a greater influence on those around him. But in spite of the hints, I'd still be surprised (albeit not unduly concerned) if he was the one leading us out against the Boks.
Ferris AFAIK has never captained a side - in that regard at least, O'Mahoney would be a more sensible candidate since he has captained at schools, junior international and provincial level. However his senior experience as a captain has been limited to what, three or four games? I've huge time for him as a player and as a future leader, but I think he's a bit raw to be taking on the role in a green jersey just yet. As I said previously, Chris Henry has captained Ulster many times, is a senior player with them and has been in excellent form this season. I reckon he'd have the respect of all his team-mates too, as well as of the officials (something we shouldn't overlook) and in the absence of POC/BOD/Best, would be the default choice for me.
Never mind perception because it isn’t real. It’s only what people think. Go out and make them think something else.
- Alan Quinlan on believing in yourself
Henry, O'Mahony, Ryan....I cant see lads with that few International caps even being considered...?? Surely u need to be a 20 cap min to even be looked at as being of sufficent calibre to lead a group of men such as this?Originally Posted by mr chips
Healy would be a contender, Heaslip and Ferris, Bowe.
Cant see Earlsy getting it. He doesnt even have an automatic spot on the team, again, hardly captain material? Great player that he is, I dont think he is more of an inspiration and a leader than Ferris!
Ferris, as a leader, has it all!
Why has he never captained a team before then? I'd imagine the answer is injuries, the captain selected here will possibly be looked upon as our next long term captain or at least a senior player with occasional captaincy. Can ferris be counted on to be available to assume that role over the next few years? If the last few are a guideline he probably can't, 35 caps for a player of his ability at 27 and having 6 years of being on the international scene says it all.
Whoever he picks is the series captain isn't he? That would suggest he'll be first name down on both Lansdowne teamsheets and possibly Fiji as well.
Healy dead Cert to start.
Hooker up in the air
Ross also dead cert
O'c or Ryan. Not sure captain will fill this jersey.
Paulie, if he's fit he's captain.
Ferris is Breakable, sadly.
Pom, not guaranteed to start.
Heaslip guaranteed his place. Has captained before.
Red/Murray. Reddan has rakes of experience.
Sexton no 1 outhalf atm. Plate is full. Steely nerves in green?
Zebo/Trimble. Only breaking through or not guaranteed a spot.
Darcy: wise old head. Could be skipper
Earls/Cave/? Too hard to call.
T. Bowe. Guaranteed starter. Leadership?
Dinny/Felix/madigan/Keith. Cant see a captain in 3 of those 4.
I am the million man.
I'm not knocking Ferris at all, and when fit he's a nailed on starter for me - but the need to qualify that statement is a key issue. Given the fact that he is prone to picking up knee injuries, I think the chances of him being available for all three games will be seen as unacceptably low when it comes to considering him for the captaincy. That's aside from his lack of experience of carrying out that specific role.
(deep breath) I purposely avoided resurrecting all the Heaslip stuff in my previous post, as I'm genuinely not trying to antagonise any of our Leinster-supporting friends. But since you mention him, I just don't think Jamie as captain would have the same respect from all his team-mates as the likes of BOD/Best/POC have had, or indeed that Healy, Henry, POM, Sexton or even Earls might have. Not saying he won't be made captain anyway - it seems like a strong possibility - but I think there are several more suitable candidates there. Rightly or wrongly, questions are often raised over his commitment, and despite e.g. POM's lack of experience at that level, that would never be the case regarding him. Ditto Henry and Healy and in fact all the others I've listed.
I'd far rather that one of POC/BOD/Best was definitely fully fit and available, but "we are where we are" and for me, Henry is the most suitable of the available alternatives.
Never mind perception because it isn’t real. It’s only what people think. Go out and make them think something else.
- Alan Quinlan on believing in yourself
It's a Pres thing. Born to lead.
Carry on, Sarn't Chips...
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
I wouldn't think for Fiji as well. I'd say it'll be more or less all change for that game (afaik it's a wolfhounds team so not a full international for us). I could see whoever loses out between POM and Henry being Capt against Fiji.
As regards the senior side- I wouldn't rule Ferris out due to his injury record. If he is fit enough to play he is fit enough to be considered as captain. We are only talking two games after all. Of course he may get hurt in the first game but so could anyone who takes the field. He may not be the right man for the job, but if he goes into the series fit I wouldn't be thinking that he may pick up an injury.
I can still see it being POC though presuming he is fit enough to start.
Mr Chips, arguments and points such as your's are not a problem to your "Leinster-supporting friends". I don't agree with your point but it's fairly made and there's something to it. Jamie is a particular personality- not everyone is going to love him. My point is that plenty of other past and present club, provincial and club captains were not universally loved. But they could do the job! That mysterious mix of example, direction, inspiration and representation that is required of the role. Heaslip hs done that with Leinster sucessfully. Okay it was only a few times when Leo was out but he did it well and- importantly seemed to revel in it and play better as a result.
What your Leinster-supporting friends take ill, is the fairly constant attempt by some Munster fans who don't like Heaslip (that's allowed), to create a narrative that he's lazy, inconsistent, cowardly, cares only for himself and a pile of other slanders on his play for Ireland. Like all players- he has his periods of form and the opposite. But to the fair-minded critic Jamie would have be credited as one of the best number 8s we had in the professional era- probably ever. Even playing below his best, he's still one of the best we've had. Either he gets picked as captain- or not. No biggie. All that matters is that he be accorded the fact that he is entitled to be considered worthy. That's all.
Our best No. 8 ever? Sorry man, for the time being at least that shirt still belongs to one A. Foley, Esq.
Never mind perception because it isn’t real. It’s only what people think. Go out and make them think something else.
- Alan Quinlan on believing in yourself
I think if Best is fit and BOD/POC are out then he should and most probably would be the captain. I'd also suggest he might well be the captain within the next year or so anyway. So whoever this will be is going to be literally short term. (Still needs to be a captain not done as an honour for long service).
\"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"
Read my post again. "one of the best ever". I've no problem saying Foley was a very good 8. I've always avoided comparisons. But if you want we can play that game.....?Our best No. 8 ever? Sorry man, for the time being at least that shirt still belongs to one A. Foley, Esq.
Last edited by artaneboy; 2nd-November-2012 at 18:22.
different players except for one thing, Foley was a captain, a real reader and understander of the game, Heaslip isn't. I don't like some of the stuff on here about his personality because it just shows how little attention people pay. This has been done to death so many times, Heaslip himself has admitted his off the pitch personality can show something odd, in that he can appear like he couldn't care less. He has also made it clear repeatedly this is about how he separates the parts of his life - the same as most sensible people do. I don't think he'll ever be a Foley in terms of being a captain/leader. But I think the kneeing of McCheat should have showed many people how he does actually care on the pitch. By the way, the 2 sly digs that (yet a-****ing-gain) that dirty player Mealamu got away with showed he's by no means a wimp.
\"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"
Ah jeez man, mellow out! The smiley was a clue ... Anyway shur, the game's on so I'll chat later.
Never mind perception because it isn’t real. It’s only what people think. Go out and make them think something else.
- Alan Quinlan on believing in yourself
Okay- fair enough.Ah jeez man, mellow out! The smiley was a clue ... Anyway shur, the game's on so I'll chat later.
Had the tools to be the best in the world at one time never mind Irish. I think a move abroad would have been best. We've too many big fish in small ponds here.
Connacht Rugby
"Live to win. Born to lose"
ferris limped off tonight if it hasnt been mentioned
I just cant see heaslip as Ireland captain for the autumn internationals.
Paddy power has odds on lions captain - sexton 40/1 heaslip 80/1
dam you rory best, if you were fit we wouldnt be having this debate
Archer Into Irish Squad
3 November 2012, 1:23 pm
By The Editor
Stephen Archer will join the exodus of Munster players tomorrrow to Carton House outside Maynooth after been called up for Ireland squad training ahead of the game against South Africa.
The 24 year was on the Munster coach last night as it took the squad to Cardiff Airport after their 24-18 victory over the Blues, when he heard the news from Munster Team Manager Niall O'Donovan and he'll join Dave Kilcoyne, Paul O'Connell, Donncha O'Callaghan, Donnacha Ryan, Peter O'Mahony, Conor Murray, Ronan O'Gara, Keith Earls and Simon Zebo in Co Kildare tomorrow. Meanwhile, Sean Dougall who was forced out of that Blues game on Friday after 25 minutes with a knee injury will have a scan on Monday. He left The Arms Park on crutches and would have to be considered very doubtful for a return when Munster resume with the game against Scarlets on November 25th.
Before that Munster A will play Leinster A in Donnybrook on Thursday November 15th, a game that could see the return of Niall Ronan and a possible first outing for South African CJ Stander.
Never mind perception because it isn’t real. It’s only what people think. Go out and make them think something else. Alan Quinlan Irish Times April 24th 2013
G'WwwwAAAAAAAAANNNNN ARCHER!!!!
Delighted for him.
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
Wish him all the best sad part is the vultures online will butcher him over the smallest thing every chance they get.
Archer for captain?
Now i would love to see the reaction to that.
With POC BOD and Best out if the captain isnt a leinster player the usual suspects will blow a gasket.
ADHD gets the news:
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
can't help but feel this is still too early for him but he's there now so please god it goes ok for the lad, he has worked hard last couple of seasons.
\"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"
Is Paulie out?
Not for definite just saying as an example.
But is sitting out training,hopefully he makes it back.(Or maybe not keep him for munster)
So Archer starts a few games against 2 Italian teams and a poor Cardiff and Penney leaves BJ on the pitch for the bigger games for up to the 80 mins,but he makes the Irish squad ok.....
Good luck to him.
Otaga Daily Times 2/5/2012
Taz-Where did you get that information as I have seen nowhere that he(Penney) was ruled out?
Editor - The writer stands by the Penney information.
Otaga Daily Times 3/5/2012
Editor-- This article originally said Rob Penney had missed out on the Munster coaching job. That information was incorrect.
If I were you, I'd just wait awhile- if he gets two minutes next week, there'll surely be someone on here proclaiming his right to it- ahead of Heaslip or Healy, of course!
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