Shootings

[Boo-boo]

Another one.

5 September 2012 Last updated at 18:12 GMT

Four people killed near Lake Annecy in France
BBC map

Four people have been shot dead in the peaceful surroundings of Lake Annecy in eastern France, say reports.

The bodies of three people were found in a British-registered BMW car near Chevaline, in the Haute Savoie region, say local media.

A cyclist was found dead nearby. A girl under 10 years old was discovered injured, reports said.

read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19494892

[mr chips]

Reports on the news this morning that the girl was four years old, and lay hidden under her mother's dead body for something like eight hours after police had sealed off the scene, until the forensics investigators arrived and discovered her. Another girl around seven or eight years old, who was at first erroneously reported as having died of her injuries, is currently being treated in hospital.

[the plastic paddy]

Too horrendous, reports are saying it looked like some sort of contract job but pity the poor girl.

[Waterfordlad]

I was in Annecy for a weekend break last October and it's a very peaceful town surrounded by quiet countryside. A beautiful place. Hard to reconcile that with the of the shootings yesterday

[fitzy73]

I spent my Erasmus exchange in Chambery / Annecy. Shocked that something like that could happen there.

[B.A.]

Shocking. I'm currently on a cycling holiday about 60 miles up the road from there. Very scary stuff.

[Valencia]

You're lucky B.A because the poor cyclist who was shot was said by police today to have simply been in the wrong place at the wrong time. Sounds like some sort of execution. Absolutely horrifying, The poor kids

[i_like_cake]

Just saw this in the Torygraph....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ng-abroad.html

[Valencia]

I know someone who had their camper van stolen in France but this is a whole different league, an attack on a family, shooting them dead!! It really is hard to fathom the mindset of someone who'd do such a thing. I hope to bejaysus they catch whomever it was really quickly

[Waterfordlad]

Any idea if it was a random robbery/killing or were the victims 'known to the Gendarmerie'?

[the plastic paddy]

Just seen report on news, three of the people were shot in the middle of the forehead, looks like an execution to me. Sounds like they were from Iraq and the father worked in satelite technology. Seems very strange. Terrible for the girls.

[SecondRowGal]

Just seen report on news, three of the people were shot in the middle of the forehead, looks like an execution to me. Sounds like they were from Iraq and the father worked in satelite technology. Seems very strange. Terrible for the girls.

Janey mac, sure does!

We are driving to France on Saturday ourselves in my distinctly Irish car. I don't place much meas in hysterical paper reports, but we will still keep our eyes open.

[Hugged Rugger]

The 8 year old girl had been beaten in the head, stomach turning stuff

[99_oK?]

Any idea if it was a random robbery/killing or were the victims 'known to the Gendarmerie'?

Robbing tourists at gunpoint isn't uncommon (& many of those don't make the papers/media), but why wasn't the car taken or contents touched? Also the car engine was still running and door hadn't been opened, why not if robbery was a motive? Also the 3 car occupants were shot in the head and given at least another to ensure they were gone; didn't say how the cyclist was hit, but it had to be very recent given that the guy who discovered was passed a few mins before on the climb to the place. 15 spent shells would not point to a robbery gone wrong either.

2 other theories going round - 1. They disturbed a drugs exchange. This is a very quiet area and this does happen in this area. Some of the gangs involved had links back to the Balkan war and don't hesitate to use extreme force.

2. Professional hit in some way related to either his job (aerial photography/surveillance) and/or his background (he was born in Iraq, living in a leafy part of Surrey). But on the surface it seemed a normal family holiday, and while he lived in a nice neighbourhood, he didn't seem to be extremely rich either. So why would someone want him gone?

The local cyclist who died was just a normal working family man out for a cycle (how many of us have done that?) and his wife and kids are now bereft too.

-----------------------------------

Sad story in whatever way you look at it.

[Hellboy]

Clearly a contract.
But ... 15 magazines of automatic guns ?
Beating a 10 year old girl left for dead ?
Seriously ?
Ghaddaffi and Ben Laden were not so dangerous.

[Boo-boo]

This throws light on things:

http://www.indymedia.co.uk/en/2012/09/499644.html

The UK failed to protect Saad al Hilli

spook watcher | 06.09.2012 12:47

The failure of the British government to protect Saad al Hilli and his family was thrown into stark focus this week when they were gunned down by agents of the Israeli security services while on holiday in Chevaline near Lake Annecy in South West France.








al Hilli's work with the Iraqi nuclear program was under duress as a result of Saddam's Husseins threats against his family, there is no evidence he did it willingly.
Once he fled to the UK he had a right to expect protection from Israel and yet his trip was without any from UK or French police despite his repeated requests for some. He knew he had been targeted for assassination by Israel to prevent his knowledge reaching Iran and yet there was no evidence that he had continued his work or that he was working with Iran, his trip to Tehran was for religious reasons to visit the city of Qom.

[Valencia]

I don't think the Israeli's go shooting a mans family in the head and beating a 7 year old girl to near the point of death. Even if they had wanted to kill Al Hili

[99_oK?]

Clearly a contract. - evidence might suggest otherwise
....

It was 15 shells, which French Police are saying probably came from an automatic weapon. No evidence either way, but as they were head shots you wouldn't use (or need) an automatic.

There is a Foreign Office warning about UK registered vehicles being targetted for robbery, but unless the cyclist disturbed a robbery in progress, why didn't they take anything? Neither his company nor background would suggest he was a major target. So why?

Older girl isn't 10 and was shot and had a skull fracture.

[Hellboy]

Yep 15 bullets, not magazines. Sorry.
The french news website 20minutes wrongly wrote "chargeurs" (magazines) when I read it.
But they now changed it for "15 shells"

The indymedia paper could light on the story if it's verified.

[nuke]

I don't think the Israeli's go shooting a mans family in the head and beating a 7 year old girl to near the point of death. Even if they had wanted to kill Al Hili

I think you are kidding yourself

[Valencia]

I think you are kidding yourself

Big difference in lobbing a missle from the air or from a tank, to beating a small child to near death up close and personal. Who ever did this is one sick mofo

[Waterfordlad]

I agree with Nuke on this.

[McCloud]

I wonder if any Irish passports were used.

[munsterbouy]

This throws light on things:

http://www.indymedia.co.uk/en/2012/09/499644.html

The UK failed to protect Saad al Hilli

spook watcher | 06.09.2012 12:47

The failure of the British government to protect Saad al Hilli and his family was thrown into stark focus this week when they were gunned down by agents of the Israeli security services while on holiday in Chevaline near Lake Annecy in South West France.








al Hilli's work with the Iraqi nuclear program was under duress as a result of Saddam's Husseins threats against his family, there is no evidence he did it willingly.
Once he fled to the UK he had a right to expect protection from Israel and yet his trip was without any from UK or French police despite his repeated requests for some. He knew he had been targeted for assassination by Israel to prevent his knowledge reaching Iran and yet there was no evidence that he had continued his work or that he was working with Iran, his trip to Tehran was for religious reasons to visit the city of Qom.

Where is the proof for all this ??

[99_oK?]

This throws light on things:

http://www.indymedia.co.uk/en/2012/09/499644.html

The UK failed to protect Saad al Hilli

spook watcher | 06.09.2012 12:47

The failure of the British government to protect Saad al Hilli and his family was thrown into stark focus this week when they were gunned down by agents of the Israeli security services while on holiday in Chevaline near Lake Annecy in South West France.

.....

Read that and while it is/was not verified, the post has now been removed. Strange or expected?

Even supposing he was/had been a nuclear scientist working for UK intelligence and about to defect to Iran, then why take his family and also the life of an innocent local person? Would Mossad act in this manner or would it not have been easier for a branch of UK intel to quietly 'disappear' him? I would not have thought Israel would have wanted such global news coverage if that was true.

Or is there another story? Will we ever find out anything verifiable?

[Huwie]

Police said a British cyclist, who had served in the RAF, found the adults and child on a forest road.

Mr Maillaud said the British cyclist was passing along a road and saw a BMW with the engine still running.


He saw the older girl collapsing in front of him, and helped her into a recovery position, then called firefighters. Mr Maillaud said "without doubt he saved the girl's life".
He then discovered the other cyclist, who had overtaken him earlier, dead on the road. He broke the driver's window of the car, and saw three bodies inside.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19506853

Tinted Glass? or shattered glass?

[Waterfordlad]

It's totally bizarre that the French did not check the bodies in the car for 8 hours - what if more of the people shot were still alive??

[MrsMcGahan]

Read that and while it is/was not verified, the post has now been removed. Strange or expected?

Even supposing he was/had been a nuclear scientist working for UK intelligence and about to defect to Iran, then why take his family and also the life of an innocent local person? Would Mossad act in this manner or would it not have been easier for a branch of UK intel to quietly 'disappear' him? I would not have thought Israel would have wanted such global news coverage if that was true.

Or is there another story? Will we ever find out anything verifiable?

Mossad like to muddy the waters by adding eccentric elements to an assassination.

[Hellboy]

The good old police wars between Police and Gendarmerie.
Historically, the Police depended of Ministere de l'Intérieur and Gendarmerie, a military corp, of the Ministere de la Defense.

Sarkozy mixed both under the Ministere de l'Interieur, unhappyly for the gendarmes.

The "C.S.I." of the Police is based in Lyon, very close to the crime scene, the Gendarmerie one is based in Paris....

The district is under the Gendarmerie authority, and they waited for their own experts, instead of calling the Police ones.

[NiallGK]

This throws light on things:

http://www.indymedia.co.uk/en/2012/09/499644.html


al Hilli's work with the Iraqi nuclear program was under duress as a result of Saddam's Husseins threats against his family, there is no evidence he did it willingly..

...He knew he had been targeted for assassination by Israel to prevent his knowledge reaching Iran and yet there was no evidence that he had continued his work or that he was working with Iran, his trip to Tehran was for religious reasons to visit the city of Qom.

Interesting, al Hilli's profession is described as "...a civil aviation design engineer..." on RTÉ tonight. It's a hit of some kind all right but might be drugs related or a case of mistaken identity - Somehow, I doubt it.