Nailed Down Starters 2012/2013

[NotreDameRFC]

pre season games for Irish provinces are a false picture imo...English teams are always ahead in the fitness and conditioning curve in Aug more than us.
historically the results are always skewed.....
like sketchy says a change of direction was needed after last years lows....and that primarily needs to be rectified....no doubt its a transition season but rabo semi is minimum requirement....i think we have great chance to get out of group after who knows but i would not bet on anything past that.
Looking at pre season games and strength in depth as a barometer for our season is futile....munster ( and leinster and ulster for that matter) are totally different animal in Oct Nov than Aug

[deadlyBuzz]

This idea that Earls is unfamiliar with the position he grew up playing always fascinates me.

Centre of Fullback?

[Thomond78]

Centre of Fullback?

Centre. I saw him snatch a MSSC win against a Pres team with Deasy at 10, completely against the run of play, in one spectacular burst and try.

[Dumptruck]

Centre. I saw him snatch a MSSC win against a Pres team with Deasy at 10, completely against the run of play, in one spectacular burst and try.

Ah he had a clear run to the line for that.. Richie Mullane and Eamonn Broderick made that try..

[Thomond78]

Ah he had a clear run to the line for that.. Richie Mullane and Eamonn Broderick made that try..

Little bastard put on the afterburners well inside his own ten, and that was that. Rest of the shagging game, camped on their bloody line, no joy.

[Dumptruck]

Little bastard put on the afterburners well inside his own ten, and that was that. Rest of the shagging game, camped on their bloody line, no joy.

Ah no, he was closer to pbc 22 to be fair. Video here.

[Paddytheman]

Little bastard put on the afterburners well inside his own ten, and that was that. Rest of the shagging game, camped on their bloody line, no joy.

Now that's quality grudge holding. I salute you, sir.

[Evil Omer]

I'll say same as always, my hope is that there are NO nailed on starters and this is done on form, fitness and achieving specific jobs. That cuts several ways, I don't want to see an unfit POC (for example) being forced to play too soon or too much because it suits others, not just about wanting to see everyone given a fair shot.

[Dumptruck]

I think everyone will be given a shot, but it would be naive of us to think that there are not players already to the forefront of the coaches selections already based of who they are and what they have done before. BJ, ROG,HOWLETT,POC,POM, I'd even say Stander - before he even arrives.

[Bitter As A Lemon]

Who is Eamonn Broderick playing with these days? Is he at YM?

[deadlyBuzz]

Centre. I saw him snatch a MSSC win against a Pres team with Deasy at 10, completely against the run of play, in one spectacular burst and try.

I know a lot of people were impressed with him at centre in underage and he played a blinder against England, lookd to be one of our only world class players. He can make it at centre alright, that I've no doubt, but will he get the time? If Deccie insists on playing him on the wing, then we'll probably have to follow suit, but I would have no problem with that as he's sghown he can do that job to world class level as well!

[Dumptruck]

Crescent last i heard.

[Captain Average]

I think everyone will be given a shot, but it would be naive of us to think that there are not players already to the forefront of the coaches selections already based of who they are and what they have done before. BJ, ROG,HOWLETT,POC,POM, I'd even say Stander - before he even arrives.

You can add Keith to that list too. We just don't know in what position.

[Evil Omer]

I think everyone will be given a shot, but it would be naive of us to think that there are not players already to the forefront of the coaches selections already based of who they are and what they have done before. BJ, ROG,HOWLETT,POC,POM, I'd even say Stander - before he even arrives.

If ROG is a nailed on starter we're ****ed long term. We've waited too long to do something serious about having an exit plan for him. We have to think long term now, which means him, Keatley and Hanrahan need to share this year. We also seem to have forgotten that as players get older injury is more likely and takes longer to heal. Of the nailed on starters people list most are at an age (see Howlett and POC last year) where they are not going to bounce back from an injury. If we rely too heavily on those guys we will fail. I would argue that, more than giving them early game time, is what will kill the development of the youngsters. If we rely too heavily on the old guys, don't share the experience and then something happens where we have to throw the young guys straight into the must wins. Not just must wins for us but for the other sides who will hit us harder at that point.

I really hope we finally see a coach who is thinking long term. He's certainly been saying the right things about it. That means we don't see the old Gaffney mess of "first team" all stick together and any other sides are always considered also rans. We've seen what that has done on Lions tours, players go off tour, they lose impetus, lose interest, lose motivation. We need to see the likes of POC and DOC split out. I'd like to see Stringer playing alongside Hanrahan and Keatley more - he's going to develop them far more than Murray will. That kind of thinking that brings a balance to each side we field - both for the long term development and for the short term that trips to wet and windy places aren't for second and third string players to lose, the match and their motivation.

[Sketchy]

If ROG is a nailed on starter we're ****ed long term. We've waited too long to do something serious about having an exit plan for him. We have to think long term now, which means him, Keatley and Hanrahan need to share this year. We also seem to have forgotten that as players get older injury is more likely and takes longer to heal. Of the nailed on starters people list most are at an age (see Howlett and POC last year) where they are not going to bounce back from an injury. If we rely too heavily on those guys we will fail. I would argue that, more than giving them early game time, is what will kill the development of the youngsters. If we rely too heavily on the old guys, don't share the experience and then something happens where we have to throw the young guys straight into the must wins. Not just must wins for us but for the other sides who will hit us harder at that point.

I really hope we finally see a coach who is thinking long term. He's certainly been saying the right things about it. That means we don't see the old Gaffney mess of "first team" all stick together and any other sides are always considered also rans. We've seen what that has done on Lions tours, players go off tour, they lose impetus, lose interest, lose motivation. We need to see the likes of POC and DOC split out. I'd like to see Stringer playing alongside Hanrahan and Keatley more - he's going to develop them far more than Murray will. That kind of thinking that brings a balance to each side we field - both for the long term development and for the short term that trips to wet and windy places aren't for second and third string players to lose, the match and their motivation.

Some very frequent but subtle rotation is what I hope to see for the young guys coming through. No use throwing them in with each other and then wondering why they get taken apart by the Zebras. Penney will be trying to find out what our strongest 15 is as quickly as possible, and to be fair that won't be easy as there are a lot of numbers up for grabs. He also has to ensure we stay competitive in the Rabo. So personally, I would like to see 70 - 80% of our perceived first 15 starting as frequently as possible so they can build that familiarity, and rotate the other 20 - 30% as much as possible so that players don't get too comfortable with the same players. Then should we suffer an injury an a key place, our game won't be reliant on that injured player whomever he may be. Looking at the opening games up to and including the Racing/Edinburgh double HEC, it is a baptism of fire. For the morale of the team we can't afford to be whipping boys for anyone.

[Thomond78]

Correct me if I'm wrong, EO, but Dougie just HAS bounced back from a horrible injury...

[Evil Omer]

Correct me if I'm wrong, EO, but Dougie just HAS bounced back from a horrible injury...

I wouldn't call the length of time he was out bouncing back, that's what I meant, i.e. guys being out for a couple of weeks as opposed to injuries being worse and taking longer to heal. POC and Dougie between them have been out for an age and that's what I'd expect at this stage. We've been lucky ROG has never really had that problem.

[Thomond78]

I wouldn't call the length of time he was out bouncing back, that's what I meant, i.e. guys being out for a couple of weeks as opposed to injuries being worse and taking longer to heal. POC and Dougie between them have been out for an age and that's what I'd expect at this stage. We've been lucky ROG has never really had that problem.

Nobody comes back in a couple of weeks from a serious Achilles tear. Recovery time depends on the injury as much as age.

[galinka]

If Luke O'Dea continues to impress like last week he'll be in the first 15

[McCloud]

Interesting comments on Keatley's performance by Penney.


The Irish Times - Monday, September 3, 2012
Keatley is Munster's almost perfect 10


Edinburgh 18 Munster 23: MUNSTER MADE the best possible start to their RaboDirect Pro12 campaign by defeating a powerful Edinburgh side at Murrayfield on Saturday evening with a performance that was an endorsement of new coach Rob Penney’s ability to inspire his side.


“I thought the boys played a lot of good rugby. They reduced the amount of unforced errors that we had been guilty of in our pre-season and I thought that we defended with a massive amount of determination. We’re ahead of where I thought we would be at this stage” said Penney.


“A lot of credit must go to Edinburgh. They threw everything at us and played some good football to produce what I thought was a very good match and a good advert for the game.”


Pleasing for a Munster side shorn of a number of their front line troop was their ability to overcome what was a strong Edinburgh missing very few top stars. Edinburgh actually outscored Munster in tries, with a spectacular hat-trick from Tim Visser. But Munster can thank the accurate kicking of Ian Keatley, who aside from scoring one of his side’s two tries, kicked three penalties and two conversions for an invaluable contribution of 18 points.


“Ian had a terrific performance” said Penney. “Ten is a very difficult position as you have to make 80 to 90 decisions in the match and you have to have time there. Ian showed a great deal of maturity and fortitude. He was able to guide the team around the park”.


The Munster coach also praised the efforts of the back three among whom Denis Hurley at fullback was a forceful presence and skipper Doug Howlett showed good leadership. “I was very pleased for Doug leading the team in the last 10 minutes when Edinburgh put us under pressure” observed Penney.


Munster elation was in contrast to Edinburgh disappointment, the home side’s coach Michael Bradley admitting that defeat was something of a set-back for his new look side. The former Ireland scrumhalf said: “It was disappointing for us. We fielded a strong and experienced side”.


Edinburgh looked the more likely winners when their expansive game produced the first of Visser’s three tries, from clever work by outhalf Greig Laidlaw, and good support from fullback Greig Tonks, whose perfectly timed pass gave Visser an easy romp to the line.


A Keatley penalty was followed by an attack that all but resulted in a try for Hurley. But at the immediate ruck, Munster turned over vital possession on the Edinburgh line, allowing Stuart McInally to break away before sending Visser in for his second try.


Just before half-time, however, Munster achieved the score they had threatened. Howlett did the damage with a deft chip to the line and it was Keatley who was on hand to control the bouncing ball for his side’s first try, his conversion levelling the scores.


A Keatley penalty just after the break then gave Munster the lead for the first time, only for Laidlaw to reply in kind. Then after Hurley had been beaten to the ball by Visser, Munster worked a planned move from the line-out that ended with Luke O’Dea cutting through midfield for a converted try.


O’Dea almost scored again but instead of five points Munster were happy to settle for a third Keatley penalty and a 23-13 lead. With 10 minutes remaining, Edinburgh threw everything into attack and from a lineout they moved the ball well for De Luca to deliver the scoring pass to Visser.


Munster’s defence stood firm for the remaining moments to earn the visitors a deserved victory.


EDINBURGH . G Tonks; L Jones, N De Luca, B Atiga, T Visser; G Laidlaw, R Rees; J Yapp, R Ford, W Nel; G Gilchrist, S Cox; D Denton, R Rennie, S McInally. Replacements: G Cross for Nel, A Jacobsen for Yapp (both 51 mins), C Leck for Rees, D Basiliai for McInally (both 60 mins), A Titterell for Ford (61 mins), J Houston for Atiga (65 mins), P Parker for Gilchrist (69 mins).


MUNSTER: D Hurley; D Howlett, C Laulala, J Downey, L O’Dea; I Keatley, D Williams; W du Preez, D Varley, BJ Botha; D O’Callaghan, B Holland; P Butler, S Dougall, J Coughlan. Replacements: M Sherry for Varley (47 mins), D Kilcoyne for du Preez (55 mins), D Foley for P Butler, I Dineen for Laulala (65 mins), B O’Mahony for Dougall (71 mins), P Stringer for Williams (72 mins), S Deasy for Hurley (74 mins).


Referee : Leighton Hodges (WRU).

[MrsMcGahan]

Understands well how big a factor confidence is............Keatley is the back up to ROG so it's vital he plays to his potential.

[LondonMunster]

How can anyone say that CJ Stander is a nailed down starter when he hasn't even landed? Against a fairly robust backrow on Saturday Dougall did well enough and of course neither O'Mahony or Ronan have had a run yet. Madness.

[HenryFitz]

I was at the game, and Keatley played very well. There seems to be a reluctance to acknowledge this, with someone here giving him a 4 out of 10. Maybe because he didn't kick the corners enough? Penney doesn't strike me as a bull**** artist and I'd say he genuinely believes Keatley had a good game. Which he did. A couple of errors in the first 20 minutes and almost flawless thereafter. The legend of ROG would have played better (he'd have knocked over that drop-goal for a start), but the real ROG would be pushed to outdo that performance.

[Cowboy]

I was at the game, and Keatley played very well. There seems to be a reluctance to acknowledge this, with someone here giving him a 4 out of 10. Maybe because he didn't kick the corners enough? Penney doesn't strike me as a bull**** artist and I'd say he genuinely believes Keatley had a good game. Which he did. A couple of errors in the first 20 minutes and almost flawless thereafter. The legend of ROG would have played better (he'd have knocked over that drop-goal for a start), but the real ROG would be pushed to outdo that performance.

I thought Keats looked a lot more relaxed and composed myself. The whole team started with a stutter, but once it settled down he was involved in plenty, a very good start to the season from him. Glad Penney came out and backed the lad.

[joeriddick]

I was at the game, and Keatley played very well. There seems to be a reluctance to acknowledge this, with someone here giving him a 4 out of 10. Maybe because he didn't kick the corners enough? Penney doesn't strike me as a bull**** artist and I'd say he genuinely believes Keatley had a good game. Which he did. A couple of errors in the first 20 minutes and almost flawless thereafter. The legend of ROG would have played better (he'd have knocked over that drop-goal for a start), but the real ROG would be pushed to outdo that performance.

I thought Keats looked a lot more relaxed and composed myself. The whole team started with a stutter, but once it settled down he was involved in plenty, a very good start to the season from him. Glad Penney came out and backed the lad.

He was decent. Hopefully he has a stormer Friday against Treviso. We're at home and expected to win so he needs to kick on.