The truth about Eddie and me

[Mcork]

I think GM's point is that EOS waded in with the media against him. If he said nothing a avoided the questions it would have been better for the players confidence. Pretty basis stuff for a Head Coach. Have you ever heard Kidney jump on a media bandwagon and criticise a player? Keep your player feedback one to one.

Deccie is being compared more and more recently with his predecessor due to the performance of the team and the stale selection policies. However in human and man managment terms, they are chalk & cheeze. Kidney would never even consider hanging a player out to dry like GM was by EO'S.

[Thomond78]

Remember o driscoll on danie roussow Attachment 3746

I do. Which, I might add, is more than either of them do...

[jeepers]

Agree with most of what you say, Outlaw. Plenty of players make mistakes but GM made some high profile howlers as opposed to just errors. Just think GM is having a bit of a whinge where he has little enough reason. I don't like to say it as he seems to be a very nice bloke and was fantastic to watch in his prime. He had plenty of opportunities (and would have had another dozen caps if it wasn't for injury). I don't recall too many instances of a coach coming out and defending a player for missing a tackle when they get pulled up on it in the media. You take it on the chin and work on it. GM started 4 games in the 2008 6N ahead of the likes of Bowe, Kearney and Horgan but makes no mention of that. He simply seems to have a chip on his shoulder that someone else was preferred to him. It happens.

Rory Best had the Irish jersey for the best performances of EOS's tenure in 2006 and the 2007 6N but was dumped for Flannery who executed a basic function better than Best at the set piece but never complained. Hickie was continually in and out of the team despite scoring regularly. Heaslip didn't make the WC squad. Ferris barely got a look in under EOS. Gleeson was dumped. Quinlan was an outsider despite turning in some superb performances over the years. Humphreys sat on the bench for an entire 6N without getting a second of game time. These are guys who could have legitimate reason to take issue with their treatment. GM got way more games than all of the above under EOS and multiple opportunities to nail down a spot. He had a run of 15 games in a row at full back at one point. It strikes me as simply stirring it up to try and sell a few copies.

In fairness, Murphy says that Heaslip, Quinlan, Ferris, Luke etc. were all treated badly by EOS.

As far as I remember, Girvan wasn't dropped for the 2008 6Ns, so why should Kearney be picked instead? Shane Horgan's form was shocking and Bowe claimed his spot and of course Hickie had retired which made space for Luke.

[rathbaner]

That Ibanez step on Murphy cost Ireland a Grand Slam. It was unforgiveable. Of course Murphy was finished with Eddie after that. Say what you like about Eddie, and you all do exactly that, but no coach could have stomached an error of that scale.

[Tobyglen]

If & Maybe's will define Murphy's career. He was a very skillful player but couldn't tackle a paper bag. At international level that's just not acceptable. At least ROG tried to tackle but Murphy shied away from contact on some big occasions.

[NotreDameRFC]

That Ibanez step on Murphy cost Ireland a Grand Slam. It was unforgiveable. Of course Murphy was finished with Eddie after that. Say what you like about Eddie, and you all do exactly that, but no coach could have stomached an error of that scale.

And maybe Eddie emptying the bench and fupping around in last 20mins v Italy cost us the cship ...blaming the losing of the slam on Murphy for one missed tackle is over the top....
Our lack of professionalism /cuteness as a team to close games out cost us more under EOS. than any one incident early in one game.

[bazzyg]

If there are any beans to be spilled or dirty linen to be washed I would not expect Paul O'Connell or Brian O'Driscolll to do it in public.

Books will need to be sold, POC has never been shy of giving his honest and open opinion on a performance, so why not on career defining moments when he's retired, if it's the same old dross the incentive to buy will be diminished.

[Liam2me]

Books will need to be sold, POC has never been shy of giving his honest and open opinion on a performance, so why not on career defining moments when he's retired, if it's the same old dross the incentive to buy will be diminished.

but he's also never aired dirty laundry in public

[cemec]

BOD has already been working with Paul Kimmage on his biography for the past year which he has said he won't release until he retires. Given Kimmage's previous publications and BOD's insistence that nothing will be released until he's retired, I think we'll be looking at a fairly honest appraisal of things

[The Outlaw]

If & Maybe's will define Murphy's career. He was a very skillful player but couldn't tackle a paper bag. At international level that's just not acceptable. At least ROG tried to tackle but Murphy shied away from contact on some big occasions.

One and the same thing. trying to tackle and failing is exactly the same as missing a tackle. I mean thats a complete contradiction. At professional level neither are acceptable.

[cemec]

In fairness, Murphy says that Heaslip, Quinlan, Ferris, Luke etc. were all treated badly by EOS.

As far as I remember, Girvan wasn't dropped for the 2008 6Ns, so why should Kearney be picked instead? Shane Horgan's form was shocking and Bowe claimed his spot and of course Hickie had retired which made space for Luke.

Kearney was primarily a winger at the time. The point was Murphy was given the starting spot ahead of him (Murphy started games both on the wing and full back in that tournament). Horgan's form was poor but he was one of the most confirmed untouchables but was ditched for Murphy. Bowe only got into the team when Murphy moved to 15 when Dempsey was injured in that championship. EOS might not have been his biggest fan but he was still selecting him when he had other options so clearly did rate him to some extent.

Reading the full article, I get the impression that Murphy has confidence problems particularly in relation to his defence. He had it in his mind that he wouldn't try to tackle Rocokoco in case he missed it, he says he was "terrible jittery" about playing France the morning of the 6N game because he was instructed not to miss a tackle and also mentions that he spent time with Neil Back trying to improve his tackling with Back giving him pointers about how to tackle "like you would teach a six year old". All in all, a massively talented player but a fragile one also it seems.

[isola ciarrai]

Remember o driscoll on danie roussow
Attachment 3746

Yes, and he took himself out of the game when we were badly caught for decent backs. Achieved nothing except buckling himself and Russow.

[NotreDameRFC]

Yes, and he took himself out of the game when we were badly caught for decent backs. Achieved nothing except buckling himself and Russow.

Well i don't think that was his intention...i more commenting on the ferocity of the tackles in that game.

[The Outlaw]

Yes, and he took himself out of the game when we were badly caught for decent backs. Achieved nothing except buckling himself and Russow.

ah come on. he put his body on the line and he made the tackle. Unlike others.

[NotreDameRFC]

ah come on. he put his body on the line and he made the tackle. Unlike others.

Plus he led the fight...squared up to matfield and never took a step back.

Those 5months in 2009 ..from 6n through hc to lions he was utterly immense.

[isola ciarrai]

Plus he led the fight...squared up to matfield and never took a step back.

Those 5months in 2009 ..from 6n through hc to lions he was utterly immense.

His leadership and skill were needed on the field, and he could have tackled Russow in his normal effective way - a truly great player but had a definite rush of blood to the head on that one. One can select any number of crunch tacklers on a Lions team but there is only one BOD. Think he would agree with me himself in the cold light of dawn.

[Thomond78]

Have to agree. He was trying to hurt Roussouw. He did: but did himself, too. That did us no favours in a game where players were already dropping like flies.

[The Outlaw]

His leadership and skill were needed on the field, and he could have tackled Russow in his normal effective way - a truly great player but had a definite rush of blood to the head on that one. One can select any number of crunch tacklers on a Lions team but there is only one BOD. Think he would agree with me himself in the cold light of dawn.

I watched it back on youtube a minute ago. I still dont agree with you.

[busby]

Not sure what to make of this. You'd like to think this is finally the truth people wanted about EOS, but its one player nearly 4 years on.

[Ratbastard]

Finally the truth! We've waited a long for it. It always comes out in the end.

I wonder does Murphy mention ROG publicly shaming him also for missing the Ibanez tackle? It was a dreadful miss, and yet Murphy wanted EOS to support him publicly. I'm with EOS on this one.

[John123]

I'd take this with a pinch of salt... Of course a player that isn't getting picked by a coach is going to have a sour opinion of him. I think Donnacha's book is quite honest about Eddie, he gave the impression that Eddie was difficult enough to deal with but that he had respect for him. Surely that's the most important thing? And sure he got things wrong for the WC but what Irish coach hasn't?

[rathbaner]

And maybe Eddie emptying the bench and fupping around in last 20mins v Italy cost us the cship ...blaming the losing of the slam on Murphy for one missed tackle is over the top....
Our lack of professionalism /cuteness as a team to close games out cost us more under EOS. than any one incident early in one game.

There is of course plenty of merit in what you say, and lots of ifs and buts in what could and should have been a glorious year for Irish rugby - and very nearly was in fact.

But individual errors cost ireland dearly. Some stick out in the mind more clearly than others, Denis Leamy in Italy, when the team was instructed to attack at all costs would be one, But Geordan Murphy - in Ireland's first ever game in Croke Park and when everyone knew that France was pretty much the only genuine obstacle to a Grand Slam. And Murphy was the full back, [Edit: no he wasn't - see correction by Jeepers in post €55 below - my bad] it's not like he was a hooker out of position on the wing up against a faster and more skilful opponent playing in position like, er, Ibanez.

Unforgiven.

[jeepers]

I wonder does Murphy mention ROG publicly shaming him also for missing the Ibanez tackle? It was a dreadful miss, and yet Murphy wanted EOS to support him publicly. I'm with EOS on this one.

They included excerpts from his book on both ROG & Martin Johnson. He said that ROG was very outspoken and some people found that difficult to deal with. Said ROG was very focussed and driven. He went onto say how well ROG was well respected in English rugby circles after that kick and interview he gave to Sky in Welford Rd. He also said that ROG plans to play on until he is in his 40s!

PS - there is a difference between your coach slagging you off in public and one of your playing colleagues making a comment that you shouldn't have missed a tackle.

[NotreDameRFC]

There is of course plenty of merit in what you say, and lots of ifs and buts in what could and should have been a glorious year for Irish rugby - and very nearly was in fact.

But individual errors cost ireland dearly. Some stick out in the mind more clearly than others, Denis Leamy in Italy, when the team was instructed to attack at all costs would be one, But Geordan Murphy - in Ireland's first ever game in Croke Park and when everyone knew that France was pretty much the only genuine obstacle to a Grand Slam. And Murphy was the full back, it's not like he was a hooker out of position on the wing up against a faster and more skilful opponent playing in position like, er, Ibanez.

Unforgiven.

good film..eastwood got Oscar for best director.




but i take your point.

[jeepers]

There is of course plenty of merit in what you say, and lots of ifs and buts in what could and should have been a glorious year for Irish rugby - and very nearly was in fact.

But individual errors cost ireland dearly. Some stick out in the mind more clearly than others, Denis Leamy in Italy, when the team was instructed to attack at all costs would be one, But Geordan Murphy - in Ireland's first ever game in Croke Park and when everyone knew that France was pretty much the only genuine obstacle to a Grand Slam. And Murphy was the full back, it's not like he was a hooker out of position on the wing up against a faster and more skilful opponent playing in position like, er, Ibanez.

Unforgiven.

Girvan was the fullback that day. Geordan was on the wing instead of Shane Horgan who played inside centre with D'Arcy playing 13.
Andrew Trimble was on the bench.

[Point]

Precisely. Of course, when you were one of the untouchables, why would you have anything bad to say about Eddie? I think the attitude of club owners accross England & France sums him up really.

You could extend that to Munster over the last 4 years.

[Tobyglen]

One and the same thing. trying to tackle and failing is exactly the same as missing a tackle. I mean thats a complete contradiction. At professional level neither are acceptable.

It's a contradiction in your head.

ROG always put his body on the line in big games & mostly stopped big guys who constantly ran down his channel. Sometimes he wasn't physically strong enough. Murphy often just didn't fancy it. That effort on Ibanez in Croker was a disgrace from someone who was suppose to be the last line of defence. Another famous effort was when he ran away from a Samoan in twickers a few years back. His career never really took off at international level & some of the crap about him possibly being one of the all time greats before that broken leg against Scotland is hilarious. Blaming EOS for his shortcomings is a cop out. He should have came back to Ireland when he had a chance, it was obvious that players outside Ireland were at a big disadvantage

[Cowboy]

I wonder how he'd be viewed today if he'd thrown himself at Ibanez but been steam rolled into the middle of the week before.

He was a very talented domestic level 15, but his international career will be remembered by a few key moments sadly.

Paddies love a fella who'll throw himself in front of the bus. I think it's a result of us being shyte at rugby for donkeys years.

The book is of no interest to me. These fellas have a pension to fill, I often wonder do players keep diaries to remember all these stories for the bewk at de end.

[Tobyglen]

I wonder how he'd be viewed today if he'd thrown himself at Ibanez but been steam rolled into the middle of the week before.

He was a very talented domestic level 15, but his international career will be remembered by a few key moments sadly.

Paddies love a fella who'll throw himself in front of the bus. I think it's a result of us being shyte at rugby for donkeys years.

The book is of no interest to me. These fellas have a pension to fill, I often wonder do players keep diaries to remember all these stories for the bewk at de end.

We can all accept a proper effort at a tackle when the player just isn't physically strong but to just throw a lazy arm at a hooker going full tilt in such a seismic game was appalling.
It was a key moment in the game.

[Cowboy]

We can all accept a proper effort at a tackle when the player just isn't physically strong but to just throw a lazy arm at a hooker going full tilt in such a seismic game was appalling.

Agree TG, I don't attribute the losing of that game to him, it was symptomatic of his career in green. I'd also be of the school that the swerve was a more reliable 15, cleaner boot, as good in the air, better tackler.

Superior at the mundane, where good 15's earn their corn.