There are National considerations that Penney will be encouraged to contemplate Bok. I think we would all be happy with a "Schmidtesque" approach to Munster Team Selection for Key Games.
There are National considerations that Penney will be encouraged to contemplate Bok. I think we would all be happy with a "Schmidtesque" approach to Munster Team Selection for Key Games.
Thanks to all for the updates here last night, would love to see highlights of the game now, delighted Downey showed up well.
Visser to start for the Lions if he keeps on doing what does?? Him, Bowe, North and who else for the wing slots?
Hip Flasks at the ready, double for a Stringer ankle tap!
I don't agree. Edinburgh were better in patches, never much better and but for a fortuitous turnover might well have gone it at half time down 17-5. Edinburgh played like a cocky side, poorly, even when they were dominating, and their final surge showed how limited they really are. Despite earlier remarks in this discussion about it not being a Munster 2nd's it was a significantly below strength Munster squad v HC Semi-finalists at near full strength.Originally Posted by Dowlinz
They were never going anywhere 'out of sight' and they have some serious issues to address.
And whatever about McVisser, their coaches' faces said they know that.
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
We were missing POC as well. They are 6 players that will almost certainly be starting for our HEC games. And seeing that Edinburgh had all their international players back, it is certainly worth highlighting we had 6 Internationals to add to the team that came away with a win last night. How you can correlate that fact being pointed out with being a disrespectful Munster fan is beyond me. Our Rabo strength team beat their HEC strength team at home. That is something to be pleased about.
Very happy with the bits of the performance I saw last night (while fishing the kids out of the river and explaining once it's dark having a torch trained on them won't stop them drowning), the attitude of the players was the most noticeable thing to me, when plan B didn't work after plan A the whole team didn't implode and have a brain fart. Looking forward to a smart, patient and clever Munster, and that's all I want( and the fact that Coughlan is a sneaky, amazing, heart on his sleeve, die hard Munster man,(fair cute too)
"You were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!"
Ashton (got 2 for sarries at weekend) and cuthburt... 5 top wingers. Twould be north plus one for me. He made poor fionn Carr look like a school kid playing grown up rugby on sat.
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
I wonder how long it'll take for the RTE crowd to get the pronounceation of Laulala right.
I'm being optimistic and saying Ulster Away
“You don’t have to be a structural engineer to know that if you load the top and weaken the bottom, even the mightiest of towers can fall with a crash.”- Eddie Butler
Some big wingers in there! Always thought Ashton was way overrated myself but I guess he is a decent finisher. Did Cuthbert stay with Cardiff or head to France?
Hip Flasks at the ready, double for a Stringer ankle tap!
he stayed with Cardiff.
“You don’t have to be a structural engineer to know that if you load the top and weaken the bottom, even the mightiest of towers can fall with a crash.”- Eddie Butler
Keatley is Munster's almost perfect 10
Munster's Luke ODea scores his side's second try against Edinburgh in Saturday evening's RaboDirect Pro12 game at Murrayfield. Photograph: Billy Stickland/Inpho
“I thought the boys played a lot of good rugby. They reduced the amount of unforced errors that we had been guilty of in our pre-season and I thought that we defended with a massive amount of determination. We’re ahead of where I thought we would be at this stage” said Penney.Edinburgh 18 Munster 23: MUNSTER MADE the best possible start to their RaboDirect Pro12 campaign by defeating a powerful Edinburgh side at Murrayfield on Saturday evening with a performance that was an endorsement of new coach Rob Penney’s ability to inspire his side.
“A lot of credit must go to Edinburgh. They threw everything at us and played some good football to produce what I thought was a very good match and a good advert for the game.”
Pleasing for a Munster side shorn of a number of their front line troop was their ability to overcome what was a strong Edinburgh missing very few top stars. Edinburgh actually outscored Munster in tries, with a spectacular hat-trick from Tim Visser. But Munster can thank the accurate kicking of Ian Keatley, who aside from scoring one of his side’s two tries, kicked three penalties and two conversions for an invaluable contribution of 18 points.
“Ian had a terrific performance” said Penney. “Ten is a very difficult position as you have to make 80 to 90 decisions in the match and you have to have time there. Ian showed a great deal of maturity and fortitude. He was able to guide the team around the park”.
The Munster coach also praised the efforts of the back three among whom Denis Hurley at fullback was a forceful presence and skipper Doug Howlett showed good leadership. “I was very pleased for Doug leading the team in the last 10 minutes when Edinburgh put us under pressure” observed Penney.
Munster elation was in contrast to Edinburgh disappointment, the home side’s coach Michael Bradley admitting that defeat was something of a set-back for his new look side. The former Ireland scrumhalf said: “It was disappointing for us. We fielded a strong and experienced side”.
Edinburgh looked the more likely winners when their expansive game produced the first of Visser’s three tries, from clever work by outhalf Greig Laidlaw, and good support from fullback Greig Tonks, whose perfectly timed pass gave Visser an easy romp to the line.
A Keatley penalty was followed by an attack that all but resulted in a try for Hurley. But at the immediate ruck, Munster turned over vital possession on the Edinburgh line, allowing Stuart McInally to break away before sending Visser in for his second try.
Just before half-time, however, Munster achieved the score they had threatened. Howlett did the damage with a deft chip to the line and it was Keatley who was on hand to control the bouncing ball for his side’s first try, his conversion levelling the scores.
A Keatley penalty just after the break then gave Munster the lead for the first time, only for Laidlaw to reply in kind. Then after Hurley had been beaten to the ball by Visser, Munster worked a planned move from the line-out that ended with Luke O’Dea cutting through midfield for a converted try.
O’Dea almost scored again but instead of five points Munster were happy to settle for a third Keatley penalty and a 23-13 lead. With 10 minutes remaining, Edinburgh threw everything into attack and from a lineout they moved the ball well for De Luca to deliver the scoring pass to Visser.
Munster’s defence stood firm for the remaining moments to earn the visitors a deserved victory.
EDINBURGH . G Tonks; L Jones, N De Luca, B Atiga, T Visser; G Laidlaw, R Rees; J Yapp, R Ford, W Nel; G Gilchrist, S Cox; D Denton, R Rennie, S McInally. Replacements: G Cross for Nel, A Jacobsen for Yapp (both 51 mins), C Leck for Rees, D Basiliai for McInally (both 60 mins), A Titterell for Ford (61 mins), J Houston for Atiga (65 mins), P Parker for Gilchrist (69 mins).
MUNSTER: D Hurley; D Howlett, C Laulala, J Downey, L O’Dea; I Keatley, D Williams; W du Preez, D Varley, BJ Botha; D O’Callaghan, B Holland; P Butler, S Dougall, J Coughlan. Replacements: M Sherry for Varley (47 mins), D Kilcoyne for du Preez (55 mins), D Foley for P Butler, I Dineen for Laulala (65 mins), B O’Mahony for Dougall (71 mins), P Stringer for Williams (72 mins), S Deasy for Hurley (74 mins).
Referee : Leighton Hodges (WRU).
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...323533541.html
As noted, Bradley is more clued in than Visser.
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
Now that it's Monday , back to reality .
edinburgh were able to make too many line breaks up through the middle of the field.
too many turnovers at the breakdown.
ruck workrate better but needs to be a bit quicker. Edinburgh were not interested in counter rucking or else more ball would have been turned.
need more options running from deep ESP from the forwards.
t78 ..you are as usually going over the top for your new hard on .. visser ...
he scored a hat trick...and Edinburgh missed conversions and he felt they should have won.. he's was on .a high after scoring a hat trick and cannot believe they didn't win..... not sure what the big deal is...
we got the points on the board ...by all means make your point ....but give your audience here some credit...once is enough.
"Lads, your not to miss practice unless your parents died or you died" Frank Leahy
The long and the short of it is we went to Edinburgh on the back of a big loss to LI ,with nearly the same squad and won a game we were not expecting to win. It was a good first weekend for us but we have plenty to work on over the coming weeks.
Munster need to back up last weekend with another decent performance this weekend and keep showing more of what they did against Edinburgh.
Some of the young lads who are being given an opportunity showed well and that is very encouraging,but so did a few of the more senior lads like DOC.I'd like to think we will be a decent enough position by the time the Internationals integrate back into the squad.
Our absolute dependance on BJB is the sole worry I would have after all the pre season games+1st rabo match.He ended up playing the 80 with Archer left on the bench.
Otaga Daily Times 2/5/2012
Taz-Where did you get that information as I have seen nowhere that he(Penney) was ruled out?
Editor - The writer stands by the Penney information.
Otaga Daily Times 3/5/2012
Editor-- This article originally said Rob Penney had missed out on the Munster coaching job. That information was incorrect.
I'd agree with most of that Taz. While there were a lot of mistakes in our game, there were some positive attacking moves and line-breaks (!!!) which had been conspicuous by their absence last season and for much of the seasons before. This game represented what most people on here seemed to be hoping for/expecting in the days and weeks beforehand - no, not everything was going to click straight away, but signs of a new beginning and a clear indication that things are going to change for the better under Penney. We got that, plus an away victory to boot, so I'll take that with a smile!
I know you have your doubts about Archer and I've had my own concerns there. I'm gonna put my faith in the reports of his having done a very good pre-season and hope he manages to show he can compete at Rabo/HEC level this season.
Never mind perception because it isn’t real. It’s only what people think. Go out and make them think something else.
- Alan Quinlan on believing in yourself
Visser was claiming Edinburgh were physically dominating. When they were not only losing the collisions but their scrum was being turned into a flesh pretzel, that deserves ridicule.
As for the rest, I'd merely point you gently in the direction of your Saturday-night contributions, gently take the stone out of your hand and give you the number of a good glazier.
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
yeah i was pretty merry from been out all day watching Nd and catching up on munster game...hence the possible babbling ....what's your excuse...
"Lads, your not to miss practice unless your parents died or you died" Frank Leahy
Crash goes another pane...
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
Stone thrower refers to being tipperary nativeCrash goes another pane...
"Lads, your not to miss practice unless your parents died or you died" Frank Leahy
Anybody got any links to highlights, the stream I was watching gave up just before half time till 60 mins or so. Missed the LO'D try. Cheers in advance.
Super win! For me it was great to see red jerseys running straight with ball in hand because when they did they caused problems and made great strides up the pitch. They ran laterally a couple of times towards the end of the first half and made it too easy for Edinburgh. Watching Downey punching up the 10 - 12 channel in the second half was almost like watching Halstead in 05/06. I was also very impressed with Dougall's workrate and Butler's effort in the second half. I still think Williams is too slow at the ruck, even with the five second law in place. Still though it's great to be posting after an excellent and DESERVED victory rather than a loss.
I've seen better centres in a box of Black Magic
Just watched the game on-line there. Great win and some very good signs of the future under new management in how we set up our attack. Refreshing to watch actually.
Looking forward to seeing how this new plan works with some of bigger boys back.
"There are probably more annoying things than being hectored about African development by a wealthy Irish rock star in a cowboy hat, but I can't think of one at the moment"
Paul Theroux
One of the more encouraging things I saw on Saturday night was when the camera flashed to them, seeing a coaching team that looks like they are all on the same page, no panic even at 10-3 down, no mad gesticulations, no arguing with each other, just calmness and confidence in their own system. Very encouraging.
Though we were pretty poor. First game back so i can forgive it this time.
Many individuals had a good game but our organisation in defense and sometimes attach was dismal at times.
Letting Visser score the way he did 3 times was gash.
Good to see our front row do well. DOC handled more ball in all previous seasons.
We have a lot of players to come back yet too so hopefully things are looking bright.
I hope we dont build our entire game plan around a 12 crash ball though....
Hi sham, gimme 2 pints of carling, a bottle of bud, and a vodka and orange for the burd
Just found time to watch the game back, what a pleasant change to enjoy a Munster performance; probably for the first time since MK. Good to see fellas taking the ball at pace and running straight rather than crabbing over the field and into touch. Credit to Penney for picking the best scrummaging props, lots of scrums and Munster's clear advantage in that facet of the game helped put the team on the front foot.
Now to bust some myths: as I suspected at the time Williams and Keatley were no where near as bad as posters were saying on saturday night. I counted two passing errors from Williams; on a couple of occasions the ball came to him awkwardly with the backs having over run him and on both occasions he, correctly, took the ball into contact and it was safely recycled. I will accept that sometimes the passing to Keatley is a little high but I did not see the infamous steps that provoke criticism. Keatley's range out of hand meant that we were playing the game in the right areas of the field, something the scottish lad acknowledged on BBC alba. I would certainly not criticise Keatley for the long range goal kicks he missed, with the amount of rain we have had this 'summer' it was tough enough for place kickers to get any purchase with the stationary foot. Keats also tagged well with DOC in holding up an Embra maul.
The centres worked well together with Downey doing exactly what I was confident he would do, namely straightening the line and keeping the opposition BR honest which helped Dougall to boss the breakdown, ably assisted by Butler, Holland and DOC. Lualala had a good game, I still think Keith Earls is the first choice 13 but I wouldn't mind seeing Laulala coming off the bench at 60 minutes in the HEC games to exploit tiring legs.
Really pleased for Denis Hurley who was shabbily treated last year IMHO. I am a great fan of Felix but he should have been required to win the 15 jersey back off Dinny last year, not handed it on a plate. DH is solid under the high ball and a real handful for the opposition. Luke O'Dea had an excellent game, he has lovely footwork and appears to have a lot more tackle busting power than you would think.
Final word goes to the captain. Fantastic to see Dougie back, he led the team well I thought. He might have been guilty of trying too hard but that is something I never criticise.
I've had a look back and William's was quite poor. He improved as the second half progressed but his first half was terrible. His passing was slow & inaccurate, he did his little two step every other ruck, fell off tackles and drifted into other defenders. He improved in the second half but he was poor. Keatley was decent, I'd like to see him push on against Treviso.
To The Brave and the Faithful, Nothing is Unpublishable.
Visser: Munster didn't deserve to win
Monday, September 03, 2012 - 02:37 PM
Edinburgh winger Tim Visser has voiced his frustration over his side’s 23-18 defeat to Munster on Saturday, claiming the better team lost.
The Dutch-born winger was undoubtedly the stand-out performer in Murrayfield last weekend but despite his hat-trick of tries Edinburgh could not see off Rob Penney’s side.
Tries from Ian Keatley and Luke O’Dea were added to by five successful Keatley kicks while Edinburgh were left to rue a poor goal-kicking display with Greg Laidlaw missing all three conversion attempts and slotting just one penalty.
The winger was obviously disappointed to end up on the losing side after crossing the whitewash three times and insisted Munster were fortunate to get the win.
"Munster shouldn't have won this game," said Visser.
"They played half the game we did but compared to last year we have made huge progress."
The teams were deadlocked at 10-10 at halftime despite Munster having just one try to Edinburgh’s two.
Keatley and Laidlaw exchanged penalties after the changeover before Luke O’Dea crossed under the posts allowing Munster to take a lead which they never surrendered despite conceding another late try.
Visser maintains his side were more powerful in the contact areas and would have won had it not been for poor ball retention.
"We dominated physically and we are putting good phases together but just our inability to keep hold of the ball at crucial moments meant we lost this game.
"It's hugely frustrating because we dominated them physically in the contact."
The Flying Dutchman has been top try-scorer in the PRO12 in the last three successive campaigns and with a hat-trick to his name after Round 1 he is poised to challenge for that title again.
He finished off two good team moves either side of an opportunistic turnover try which saw him show a clean pair of heels to outpace the disorganised Munster defence.
The winger was quick to hail the contribution of his teammates in creating the opportunities for him to finish.
"They (the tries) were all good, it's good just getting what I can from the players around me.
"They are putting me away which helps and I am always happy to finish things up."
What a langball. Full strength Edinburgh team outdone by a Munster outfit half filled with youngsters. He probably wants to kill Laidlaw.
I think Mr Visser is a little bit fond of himself. I hope he keeps providing good quotes to be stuck up on the dressing room wall for the three remaining games against Embra. Bonus point wins in all three would be handy enough.
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Munster's Luke ODea scores his side's second try against Edinburgh in Saturday evening's RaboDirect Pro12 game at Murrayfield. Photograph: Billy Stickland/Inpho