What is the likely team for next weekend?
What is the likely team for next weekend?
Thomond78 : I wonder... Is it within Mod powers to change a certain OP's status from "senior member" to, say, "whinging beeeeotch"? What an amusing little reward that would be, were it to happen...
Can't see it being too far off the one that played LI sadly. Luke may get a run ahead of Johnne and Stringer must be close to starting at 9. Let's hope DOC2 is fit as well (he walked into the ground ahead of me at the LI game and seemed fine). What we wouldn't do to have a couple of the Irish lads back...
\"In a world gone mad, only a lunatic is truly insane\"
POC is due a run out next week, no ?
Keatley had a nightmare against LI and getting hauled off after 50 minutes wasn't a good sign for him.
Well, making Howlett captain aside, Rob Penney won't be sentimental. He could do worse by starting the players who made the least errors in the friendly games, regardless of pedigree or contracts.
If he is going to get anything positive from this season he will have to be ruthless.
It's no accident that it's kiwis running the top three provinces in ireland, clearly the IRFU want to improve skills across the board and if Ulster and Leinster are flying the flag in the HEC the IRFU won't be too bothered to see Munster looking over their shoulder at Connacht for a while.
So Penney could decide to concentrate on the league, focus on the kids and bring though a whole new generation - regardless of the results. It could be a tough autumn and winter for Munster fans.
For the over the hill and the past-it, nothing is impossible.
a tough autumn/winter watching a team regularly featuring the likes of Scanlon, O'Dea, DOC2 and co. we can stomach.Originally Posted by rathbaner
Another season watching Holland, Williams, Deasy and co. pretend to be Heineken Cup standard isn't acceptable
\"In a world gone mad, only a lunatic is truly insane\"
Happy to see this game will be on RTE 2 HD. The Leinster Scarlets game is on TG4.
TBF Rathbaner, if we see something beginning to come together, then I believe most Munster fans will be patient. Given that they are professional athletes, paid for playing/training and having little to do other than perfect their skills, the error rate by our players is lamentable and unacceptable. Reckon RPs first season will be just to improve skills and eliminate errors, and let the chips fall where they may. Years of neglect of basic skills work has come home to roost these past few seasons, and like an ocean liner, the ship will not be turned on a sixpence. It is obvious from his post match comments, that RP is fairly shocked at the lack of basic skills and inability to avoid simple errors by some in our squad, and lads may be playing themselves into permanent residence in the B & I squad already.
Edinburgh match IMO should be:
Scanlon, Howlett, Barnes, Downey, LOD, Deasy, Stringer, Kilcoyne, Henry, BJ, Hayes, Holland, Dougall, DOC 2.0 and Coughlan.
Form - LOD, Barnes, Dougall, Kilcoyne - should be rewarded. Stringer to provide leadership - would not mind JJ at 10 either.
Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch! "Not only is it not right, it's not even wrong!"[Wolfgang Pauli]
Agree - he seems not to have any big match temperament when under any pressure at all, and while he is great with ball in hand when we are motoring well, he seems to be unable to impose himself at all and alter the pattern of play when not doing well. No better than Deasy and as older than JJ and not a product of 'our' (Munster) rugby system, would allow him not too much more time to get with the program. He was poor at times last season also. By all means, give him Pro12 match time for the next few matches, but he is IMO living on borrowed time, unless he radically improves his game and brain.
Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch! "Not only is it not right, it's not even wrong!"[Wolfgang Pauli]
On form, Hurley for fullback. Scanlon has been good, but Hurley shone like a diamond in a sweep's ear in that backline last Friday.
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
I am somewhat surprised to see he's 18 months older than Deasy, too. I would honestly have thought Deasy was at least the one age with him: Deasy's not yet 24.
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
That's very true. When you look at how long it took Johnny Sexton to come of age, Deasy is still a nipper. He looks a naturally better footballer than Keatley, but his concentration and focus seems to be where he falls down. He has never really gotten a run out with what would be considered a strong Munster team either. It has mostly been with an inexperienced 15 which is always a tough ask for a 10. Thought he finished last season well, and showed a decent range of skills. Tough call for Penney for Saturday as to who he goes with.
Anyone else feel Keatley is carrying too much muscle? Very chunky guy. He is the same height and weight as Carter, but there is only one Dan Carter. Remember when ROG put on the few pounds a good few years ago, his kicking went to sh*t. He lost the weight again and it came back. 10s need to be a bit more nimble than other positions.
When is the team to be named? Is Penney sticking to the early announcements or will it be later in the week?
Would it fair to say that Deasy also has a bit more pedigree? Deasy showed a lot of potential at younger grades in rugby and with Ireland whereas Keatley never really featured in the under age set - up. Deasy has shown some flashes of brilliance in his time with Munster and still is only 23. Consistency has been his problem but maybe if he was given three or four games at OH it might give him some confidence. Having Stringer inside would do him the world of good. Giving him the extra second on the ball could just what he needs.
I've seen better centres in a box of Black Magic
Keatley was the starting outhalf in the U20s side which won the Grand Slam. In the games I saw that year, he was excellent.
Must say Ive been surprised by the anti Hurley sentiments here, hes been our best performer in pre season.
\"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.
Having watched any preseason games but I thought he was very poor last season, didn't have the pace to play on the wing and doesn't have the football skills to play at full back. Murphy and O Donnell aren't good enough for Heineken Cup level either.
More pain before gain for Penney
By Simon Lewis
Monday, August 27, 2012
Pre-season can be tough.
While your international stars are watching from the stands, forced to put their feet up for the greater good, the replacements are being pulled from pillar to post by much stronger teams from the English Premiership unconstricted by considerations of player welfare.
So August friendlies become mismatches and poor scorelines are inevitable.
But enough about Edinburgh and their 54-3 weekend shellacking on home soil by a full-strength Northampton. Munster have some issues of their own to sort out before they head to Murrayfield next Saturday night to get the RaboDirect Pro12 campaign for 2012-13 up and running.
With a league campaign of 22 games between September and May, the running will be of the long-distance variety rather than the shorter, more explosive genre.
Yet having rebooted the Munster squad, of whom he assumed control just six weeks ago, incoming head coach Rob Penney will be aware after this three-game series of pre-season friendlies that achieving the collective objective of playing quick, intelligent, ball-in-hand rugby will bring some pain before the gain.
That is the one certain lesson learned from one win from three outings, 71 points conceded and an equal number, by Penney’s count, of unforced errors.
The 38 players he has deployed at French second division club La Rochelle (lost 31-7) and in the home games with English championship side Bristol (won 24-9) and Premiership big guns London Irish (lost 34-10) have impressed the New Zealander with their commitment to the new cause but the promised land is still some way off in the distance.
A Tomás O’Leary-inspired Irish and the boot of their fly-half Steven Shingler, gifted point-scoring opportunities throughout, brought the learning process into sharp focus last Friday night at Musgrave Park as the Exiles’ new coaching team of Brian Smith and defensive guru Shaun Edwards utilised a near full-strength Premiership side to teach a lesson to a Munster game plan still very much in the kindergarten stages.
With the serious stuff now just days away with that opening fixture in Edinburgh, Penney recognises a slight recalibration of objectives is needed this week to get his new side back on track.
"We really believe we can achieve something. It won’t happen overnight and there’s going to be some adjustments that we need to make to make sure we put ourselves in a good frame of mind and a good position to do well next week," Penney said in the aftermath of the London Irish defeat.
"Next week’s when the rubber hits the road. We’ve still got a few days to get our ship back aligned.
"When we’re under pressure our decision-making has to improve and also we need not to have 25 unforced errors, which, on the back of 24 the previous week — we’re being masters of our own destiny in a negative way, not a positive way."
The error count was caused in part, said the coach, by trying too hard to implement the new game plan and it was brutally punished by a London Irish outfit that denied the home side any latitude to attack them until a late consolation try from hooker Sean Henry, converted with the last kick of the game by Scott Deasy, nudged Munster into double figures.
Nor was the lack of penetration helped by some poor decision-making, particularly in terms of tactical kicking as Munster’s backs failed to exploit the gaps behind the Exiles’ flat defensive line.
Yet while that frustrated Penney, the head coach said he had found plenty of positives in a "mixed bag" of a performance.
Again, the former Canterbury coach praised the energy levels and work ethic of his new charges and gave credit to the scrum as BJ Botha, Damien Varley and Wian Du Preez at least secured one area of dominance over their English guests, with the maul also working well.
No doubt Penney will be hoping for a more settled constitution in the days ahead.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/r...ey-205472.html
Am I the only person who thinks that Penney is spending far too much time talking to journalists? There seems to be a full interview with him every other day! I like to know what a Coach and the team is up to like most people but I am suffering a bit from Penney overkill (don't lynch me!! Just saying! - quit the yapping and get with the coaching/winning...)
I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody - Bill Cosby
God, I think Hurley played very well last year until he was played out of position when Felix came back. I think he was a bit hard done by to be fair. He was playing great stuff at 15, and Felix was given the jersey immediately upon his return based on his form the previous year. Hurley is not a winger and was found out against Ulster. The sad thing about it was that Felix never hit the form that had gotten him the jersey in the first place.
I think there may be a bit of a hangover with denis from gilroygate, which is partly merited,
as I think he could get caught on the wing again, as large men often are. He's a bit
of a conundrum, is denis. He shows so much skill at times.. it's why I've touted him
as a 12 hereabouts on occasion, but that doesn't look likely. His greatest moments have
been that kick for howlett in his debut season, and some john 0neill-like hits last year.
I like him, but with the likes of odea, zebo, scanlon coming along, he'd want to be
pulling it out fairly lively.
Also, I'd have him ahead of felix any day.. I don't think felix has got it, personally, and if I was coaching, I'd see the #15 shirt pecking order as follows:
earls
scanlon (to be proven yet)
hurley
johnne
felix
Last edited by mtcmolloy; 27th-August-2012 at 08:45.
I'd imagine things will die down as the season progresses. I think Penney wants to try keep the Munster public (us) in the loop and calm as to the progression that the team are making. It is a bit overkill, but I like getting the insight all the same. I'll be worried if he is still at it a week before a HEC game.
A lot of the articles on different papers seem to be rehashed from the same interview too. Same quotes used.
Very poor? He was instrumental in our successful group campaign. He made the break and offload that led to Ronan's try against Scarlets, he was described as outstanding by POC after Castres at home, he set up 2 tries against the Saints in the last pool game with the Zebo offload in particular being the pick of the bunch, not to mention other offloads that led to tries and being a hard hitting FB in attack and defence. He is a much better FB than a winger and he didn't deserve to get dropped for Felix last season the way he did.
\"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.
The Edinburgh team from last weekend who according to the Irish Examiner above were destroyed by a full strength Northampton team last weekend.
15 Tom Brown, 14 Mike Penn, 13 Greig Tonks, 12 Ben Atiga, 11 Sep Visser, 10 Gregor Hunter, 9 Richie Rees; 1 John Yapp, 2 Andy Titterrell, 3 Willem Nel, 4 Perry John Parker, 5 Steven Turnbull, 6 Sean Cox, 7 Roddy Grant CAPTAIN, 8 Dimitri Basilaia. Replacements: 16 Alun Walker (on for Titterrell),17 Robin Hislop (on for Yapp), 18 Lewis Niven (on for Nel), 19 Robert McAlpine (for Cox), 20 Hamish Watson (for Basilaia), 21 Chris Leck (for Rees), 22 John Houston, 23 Dougie Fife (for Penn), 24 James King (for Atiga), 25 Jamie Farndale (for Brown)
Wonder can we expect many changes from that line out next Saturday?
4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election
"Frankfurts way or Labours way."
28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty
"A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."
I'm sorry to be this blunt, but if you thought Hurley was poor in the HEC campaign, you might as well not have watched any games last year either. He was superb; some of those out-of-the-back-of-the-hand offloads he bowled were worthy of Shane Mannix.
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
Hell... they were worthy of Sonny Bill. He did a serious one again recently in the highlights of the Bristol game. Go to 4:13 on the video:
http://www.munsterrugby.ie/matchdayt...media&id=12587
I'd say Penney and Mannix are loving that aspect of his game, hes brilliant at them, that one was definitely worthy of SBW!
\"Only Pienaar, Botha and Ferris would be in contention for a place on our first 15. That\'s a fact.\" - Tickettout\'s take on Ulster April 2011.
I'd say it's a very deliberate ploy to bring Munster back to the people or somesuch!! He has spoken an awful lot about what Munster is ("Més que un club" type of thing) so I'd imagine he's trying to bring that back to where it was back in the day!!
Or else PG has him driven demented
Classic Lievremont
Hes a new coach, of course there is going to be a lot of articles about him, people are interested and hence will buy papers! As someone else mentioned, the same quotes are being rehashed across many articles. Things like the bit in bold is the problem with a lot of people, because of course it is so simple why doesnt he just coach and win!
i'm not sure what you are basing this on? I haven't seen him wanting in this department, if memory serves
sorry to bleat about his credentials as a potential 12 again, but . . uh..
I've seen him make hits just like downey, but unlike downey, he seems to have some football,
and now you're telling me he's an offload merchant (which I've not seen a Lot
of, personally)... ?? Put him at 12. Problem solved. Actually JJ and him at 10 12 is a mouthwatering prospect imho.
Last edited by mtcmolloy; 27th-August-2012 at 10:12.
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