New Kids On The Block

[Sketchy]

Probably too messy to give each new young up and coming/potential legend their own thread. But it could be handy to have one thread for all our younglads or lads that haven't played at the highest level yet, and discuss their progress/pedigree/background. If there is one already, apologies.

For a start, the three players I am most looking forward to seeing this year are LOD, Scanlon, and DOC2. All 3 showed glimpses last year that they will be more than mere journey men and have the pace, tenacity and hunger that is needed to become future legends. Early days no doubt.

LOD looks like a finisher. That extra bit of pace that Irish backs seem to lack. Can kick and collect. Can field a high ball, and can break a tackle. Zebo might have to look over his shoulder. No harm. He needs to up his work-rate.

Scanlon seems a tidy player too. Very aware of those around him from what I have seen. 2 from 2 this season if i'm not mistaken and is not wanting in the gears department either.

DOC2, could have a POM type breakthrough this season. Tenacity in abundance, and pretty damn fast for a 6ft 5er. Strong tackler.

Kilcoyne finished last season very strongly and looks like we might be able to rely on him for HEC which would be sweet.

These are the 4 that I see really pushing for HEC squads. I can't comment on Dougal and most of the other below cos I have not seen them playing at senior level. Could be a season too early for JJ and Butler, but no doubt their time will come.

Has anyone seen much of the lads not mentioned above in action and think they have what it takes this season?


Props: D Kilcoyne, J Ryan, S Archer, C Condon, A Cotter.
Hookers: S Henry,
Locks: I Nagle, D Foley, B. Hayes
Back row: P Butler, S Dougall, B O'Mahony, DOC 2.0
Half backs: C Sheridan,
Centre/Wing: JJ Hanrahan, T Smith, I Dineen,
Full-backs: S Scanlon, L O'Dea.

[Munsterboy]

Penney was giving Dougall props for his performance on Friday:

“He’s got a lot of ability and he finds himself in places where good seven’s need to be and he’s pretty robust in there and hard to shift. Often he’s in the right place and being in the right place will give you a pay-off at some point.”

DOC2 looks like a star in the making to me. Think Butler will probably make a bit of an impact this season as well, if he can get sufficient games.

A back three of Zebo, LOD and Scanlon would be worth a look this season. Could even see them outside Barnes and Earls. A very pacey home-grown backline with an average age of <25!

[Sketchy]

Penney was giving Dougall props for his performance on Friday:

“He’s got a lot of ability and he finds himself in places where good seven’s need to be and he’s pretty robust in there and hard to shift. Often he’s in the right place and being in the right place will give you a pay-off at some point.”

DOC2 looks like a star in the making to me. Think Butler will probably make a bit of an impact this season as well, if he can get sufficient games.

A back three of Zebo, LOD and Scanlon would be worth a look this season. Could even see them outside Barnes and Earls. A very pacey home-grown backline with an average age of <25!

With Murray and JJ 9 & 10.

Apparently Butler is struggling to put on the pounds. Certainly looks like he has the skills and potential power. He'll fill out in time!

[mr chips]

Dineen looks like a very promising 12. I like what I've seen from him so far, and hope he'll get some decent run-outs (runs-out?) this season. Then of course there's JJ, who by this stage almost needs no introduction and is already identified without the need to resort to his surname. My biggest concern for him is that the hype-machine will go into overdrive, resulting in a huge fall from favour when he turns out to have feet of clay after all. It's not that I lack faith in his potential to be one of the greats, it's just that right now he's a very promising youngster, who I hope manages to fulfill all that potential.

Interestingly, with the emergence of Dineen, Hanrahan being mooted as a possible 12, and Danny Barnes being shunted back and forth between 12 and 13, all on top of the arrival of Downey, we could end up in a complete reversal of the previous situation and have too many players competing for the inside centre slot.

[Point]

Kilcoyne is getting better and better. I'd be hopeful for him.

[i_like_cake]

Dineen looks like a very promising 12. I like what I've seen from him so far, and hope he'll get some decent run-outs (runs-out?) this season. Then of course there's JJ, who by this stage almost needs no introduction and is already identified without the need to resort to his surname. My biggest concern for him is that the hype-machine will go into overdrive, resulting in a huge fall from favour when he turns out to have feet of clay after all. It's not that I lack faith in his potential to be one of the greats, it's just that right now he's a very promising youngster, who I hope manages to fulfill all that potential.

Interestingly, with the emergence of Dineen, Hanrahan being mooted as a possible 12, and Danny Barnes being shunted back and forth between 12 and 13, all on top of the arrival of Downey, we could end up in a complete reversal of the previous situation and have too many players competing for the inside centre slot.

Not sure where you are getting this Dineen looking like a promising 12 stuff... I´d like to believe you... The only thing I have heard about the guy is he scored an opportunist try against Ulster a couple of years ago... I think it was a baby hump brain fart...
where else has he shone..?

We are all enthusiastic about the great white hope that is JJ...
Barnes seems to have gone backwards in 2 years and with Downey here, not looking good...

[Sketchy]

Dineen made a few promising breaks at the back-end of last season. Nothing major but linebreaks were a rarity towards the end of McGahan's stint.

Who knows what happened to Barnes last year. He wasn't even really given a chance. Did he fall out with McGahan or was he underperforming in training? Cos it was not as if we had centres in abundance. I always thought he didn't have the pace for a 13. So i'm happy to see him thrown in at 12.

It's sh*t or bust time for both this season I would say.

[Munsterboy]

Not sure where you are getting this Dineen looking like a promising 12 stuff... I´d like to believe you... The only thing I have heard about the guy is he scored an opportunist try against Ulster a couple of years ago... I think it was a baby hump brain fart...
where else has he shone..?

We are all enthusiastic about the great white hope that is JJ...
Barnes seems to have gone backwards in 2 years and with Downey here, not looking good...

Ah don't be so pessimistic. I think Barnes looks ok at the moment. Not amazing but not out of the running for a future HEC spot either. Being used more at 12 now too, which may suit him better than 13.

Dineen looked pretty handy when he finally got some games towards the end of last season. He was injured for quite a long time prior to that but he looks promising now he's fit again. Decent pace, a big unit and solid defender. Qualities not to be sniffed at in a centre.

[mtcmolloy]

why on earth are you talking about barnes and dineen?
Neither will get any game time this season, and they never will.
My tips for greatness would be the likes of o'dea, scanlon, jj.
ODea just looks sharper than zebo..
We have only one marquee name in the back three to block their
progress. For me barnes and dineen had already had their chips
before the purchase of our new 12/13 combo this summer, so the
writing looks to be on the wall for them, I'm afraid.

murray
keatley
odea
jj
keet
zebo
scanlon

would be my home grown backline.
For a HEC game, I'd put howlett in for zebo, but otherwise
i'd rather see this unit than anything with lulala or downey in it.

[Sketchy]

why on earth are you talking about barnes and dineen?
Neither will get any game time this season, and they never will.
My tips for greatness would be the likes of o'dea, scanlon, jj.
ODea just looks sharper than zebo..
We have only one marquee name in the back three to block their
progress. For me barnes and dineen had already had their chips
before the purchase of our new 12/13 combo this summer, so the
writing looks to be on the wall for them, I'm afraid.

murray
keatley
odea
jj
keet
zebo
scanlon

would be my home grown backline.
For a HEC game, I'd put howlett in for zebo, but otherwise
i'd rather see this unit than anything with lulala or downey in it.

It would be pretty mad to be able to field an all Irish (mostly Munster) backline that has pace and skill in abundance.

The only problem with a backline such as above is that it is very small. I personally hate the way the Welsh backline has gone with the big units from 11 to 14. It is making Union more like League with more rules. But unfortunately the stats suggest that bigger backlines are more successful, particularly at International level. And with a smaller pack than we have had in the past can we be successful with a small backline?

[mr chips]

why on earth are you talking about barnes and dineen?
Neither will get any game time this season, and they never will.

Is The Outlaw a cousin of yours? Barnes is 22 - it's a bit early to be writing him off. Dineen may be a couple of years older, but up to last season McGahan had Mafi firmly entrenched in the 12 jersey. A much-lauded aspect of Penney's approach is that we have a new beginning with a clean slate, and all players are expected to get their chance to fight for inclusion.

[taz]

Archer worries me.

[Colliniho]

why on earth are you talking about barnes and dineen?
Neither will get any game time this season, and they never will.

JJ hasn't been anywhere near the senior Munster team as a 12. He was at his best this summer playing at 10 so I wouldn't see it's realistic that he'll be parachuted above Barnes this season and into contention for the 12 jersey.

If you take out the "he's an outhalf I know, but he could play 12" guys (Keatley, JJ, Deasy) then we have Downey, Barnes, Smith and at a push Dineen for the 12 shirt. That isn't a lot of options and if Downey looks too 1 dimensional for Penney then Barnes could get a fairly serious amount of gametime this year.

On the other hand if Downey goes very well then Ireland are hardly overloaded for inside centre options. It isn't ridiculous to think he could be in contention for an Ireland call up this year. Again more gametime for Barnes.

Barnes impressed me last friday. He fell away a bit last season but it isn't all that long ago that he scored those 2 tries in the Magners semi against the Ospreys and guys were asking how long it would be before he got an Ireland call up!

[Sketchy]

Archer worries me.

Me too. Do any of the other boys brought in stand a chance at this level?

[Tarfman79]

Ah don't be so pessimistic. I think Barnes looks ok at the moment. Not amazing but not out of the running for a future HEC spot either. Being used more at 12 now too, which may suit him better than 13.

Dineen looked pretty handy when he finally got some games towards the end of last season. He was injured for quite a long time prior to that but he looks promising now he's fit again. Decent pace, a big unit and solid defender. Qualities not to be sniffed at in a centre.

watched Barnes (albeit at 13) and Dineen playing AIL last season with Dolphin and Con and neither impressed me. Corey Hircock playing 13 for Garryowen looked like a player with great potential, very similar to Eoin O'Malley with dancing feet.

[breakfast roll]

Hate to say it but I really think size is going to be a problem for some of our promising backs.
Zebo looks like one of the few that has both power and pace. Not sure where people are coming from suggesting LOD is sharper. Unfortunately it seems to be a lot more about size these days. People will quote the odd exception but generally backs are getting bigger and bigger.

Barnes looked very good when he came on at 12. Dineen who did not even make the squad - has actually impressed me a lot over the last 12 months - good hands, quick enough and very strong. Scanlon always impresses but has never really got a big game.

Nagle and D Ryan were at the game as well - Nagle looks huge compared to Ryan. Could not get over how much weight he has put on. If he can stay fit I would expect him to mount a serious challenge this year.

[Munsterboy]

watched Barnes (albeit at 13) and Dineen playing AIL last season with Dolphin and Con and neither impressed me. Corey Hircock playing 13 for Garryowen looked like a player with great potential, very similar to Eoin O'Malley with dancing feet.

Well, I watched them playing Rabo last season and they both performed reasonably well. I'll judge them on that I reckon.

[deltared]

Hate to say it but I really think size is going to be a problem for some of our promising backs.
Zebo looks like one of the few that has both power and pace. Not sure where people are coming from suggesting LOD is sharper. Unfortunately it seems to be a lot more about size these days. People will quote the odd exception but generally backs are getting bigger and bigger.

Barnes looked very good when he came on at 12. Dineen who did not even make the squad - has actually impressed me a lot over the last 12 months - good hands, quick enough and very strong. Scanlon always impresses but has never really got a big game.

Nagle and D Ryan were at the game as well - Nagle looks huge compared to Ryan. Could not get over how much weight he has put on. If he can stay fit I would expect him to mount a serious challenge this year.

Zebo has a level of sparkle about him when attacking but I worry about his defence and positioning. He also has to learn about the intelligent option when running lines and support lines. O'Dea strikes me as a hunter-killer type, not the same level of flash but with a nose for the try line and an ability to finish, good defence and positioning and overall intelligent play. I thought Barnes has bulked up last Friday, willing to tackle everything and ran and hit hard. Impressed. Dineen is in the middle of exams at the moment so wasn't available, wait some more & see what Penney makes of him. He has impressed me in the past. Scanlon also impressed, intelligent footwork, ran good lies and finished very well. Good defence too. None are the finished article but do show potential. If they have the raw material we have the coach to maximise that potential. It must be good to have options! Mightily impressed with JJ at 10 over the summer, I would certainly be working to exploit that potential.
i wouldn't look beyond Dougie as Captain.

[Hellraiser]

Hate to say it but I really think size is going to be a problem for some of our promising backs.
Zebo looks like one of the few that has both power and pace. Not sure where people are coming from suggesting LOD is sharper. Unfortunately it seems to be a lot more about size these days. People will quote the odd exception but generally backs are getting bigger and bigger.

Barnes looked very good when he came on at 12. Dineen who did not even make the squad - has actually impressed me a lot over the last 12 months - good hands, quick enough and very strong. Scanlon always impresses but has never really got a big game.

Nagle and D Ryan were at the game as well - Nagle looks huge compared to Ryan. Could not get over how much weight he has put on. If he can stay fit I would expect him to mount a serious challenge this year.

The deadsite has actually update Nagle's weight stats and has him down as 17st 10lb (113kg) now. That's the same as Ryan (though the deadsite still unfortunately lists him as 108kg)

[Bromance]

watched Barnes (albeit at 13) and Dineen playing AIL last season with Dolphin and Con and neither impressed me. Corey Hircock playing 13 for Garryowen looked like a player with great potential, very similar to Eoin O'Malley with dancing feet.

Hircock is serious quick..........quickest in the squad i belive after Flex. But he can't tackle which is a vital aspect of playing in the HARDEST position on a rugby field to defend! He's great on the front foot but bring him into battle and he'll hide! Barnes always mans up, never shirks from a tackle, always gives his best and deserves more credit. Personally i think Dineen is way below par, average at AIL, average at Rabo, why look at average players, we need lads with an X-Factor like what Luke Fitz has/had, Craig Gilroy even Tiernan O Halloran, need more from the Raw talent bracket than the supreme athletes...........is very easy to make a talent into an athlete but is so difficult to make a pure athlete into a talent!! Instinctive rugby is the way forward!!

[HenryFitz]

Hircock is serious quick..........quickest in the squad i belive after Flex. But he can't tackle which is a vital aspect of playing in the HARDEST position on a rugby field to defend! He's great on the front foot but bring him into battle and he'll hide! Barnes always mans up, never shirks from a tackle, always gives his best and deserves more credit. Personally i think Dineen is way below par, average at AIL, average at Rabo, why look at average players, we need lads with an X-Factor like what Luke Fitz has/had, Craig Gilroy even Tiernan O Halloran, need more from the Raw talent bracket than the supreme athletes...........is very easy to make a talent into an athlete but is so difficult to make a pure athlete into a talent!! Instinctive rugby is the way forward!!

That's slightly contradictory. If Hircock has the talent, he's the one you should be praising ahead of honest, hardworking players like Barnes. From what I've seen of Barnes, he's not that quick, he's not that powerful and his handling and ball retention need work. What great talent am I missing?

[Evil Omer]

With Murray and JJ 9 & 10.

Apparently Butler is struggling to put on the pounds. Certainly looks like he has the skills and potential power. He'll fill out in time!

Butler does look like a smaller guy generally, tall but slight, I still think he might be worth looking at as a ball playing link man 7, he has skills. Or if we're playing a couple of brutes at 6 & 7 then he'd be a good 8 regardless of size. Balance may dictate where he plays this year.

[Tarfman79]

Well, I watched them playing Rabo last season and they both performed reasonably well. I'll judge them on that I reckon.

did they?, Barnes was out of Mcgahan's plans by March playing AIL and Dineen had 1 Start against a weakened Ulster side,
my abiding memory of Barnes last season was him being absolutely skinned for pace for northampton's opening try in TP, maybe he's a 12 but he's certainly not a 13.

By the time the HC comes around they'll be behind Downey, Keatley, Hanrahan, Lualala, Earls.

[Sketchy]

Butler does look like a smaller guy generally, tall but slight, I still think he might be worth looking at as a ball playing link man 7, he has skills. Or if we're playing a couple of brutes at 6 & 7 then he'd be a good 8 regardless of size. Balance may dictate where he plays this year.

Still only 21. So hopefully still time to get that stone that will make all the difference. He may not get much of a run this year when CJ arrives, and if Coughlin stays fit. Especially with POM also a viable option at 8 too. Penney has his work cut out for him to keep everyone happy... including us!

[Bromance]

That's slightly contradictory. If Hircock has the talent, he's the one you should be praising ahead of honest, hardworking players like Barnes. From what I've seen of Barnes, he's not that quick, he's not that powerful and his handling and ball retention need work. What great talent am I missing?

I agree, i only stated that barnes was defensively solid! Hircock i wouldn't say has the talent due to lack of a defensive brain which many natural talents have!

[oilean]

Dont rule Barnes out yet-our 2 new centres must prove themselves too!

[Evil Omer]

Speaking of centres, anyone know whatever happened to Paul 'Caspar' Devlin?

[outside inside]

Butler 6 foot 3" and 103 kg and not 22 until December he has loads of time . Would look for him to get some more Rabo exp this season while he physically matures . Start of next season for him to do a POM he has the hands and game awareness the try he set up in B&I final demonstrated that .

[Danny Ian Mark Walsh]

What's Troy Nathan like lads?

[Sketchy]

What's Troy Nathan like lads?

I presume you mean Troy Smith.

Never seen him play myself. Colliniho mentioned before that he has promise. But on the scale between Keith Earls and Danny Barnes, he is more the latter.

Two bad ligament injuries already iirc, which does not bode well for the lad.