Munster v London Irish 24/8/2012

[Piquet]

I wasn't impressed with him, and said so at the time. Still takes those two steps sideways drifting the defence onto the runner, still doesn't seem to take control at the base. The try was a two-yarder, btw, and if he didn't score it, you'd have had the shepherd's crook out instantly.

He did get the crook directly after he scored.

[Colliniho]

Can anyone comment on how Duncan Williams played against Bristol? Surprised Stringer didn't get a pre-season start. Can't say I have ever been overly impressed by Williams but it would be handy if he was beginning to come good.

He had a decent game. When I have seen Duncan play for Munster he seems to either have a decent game (Australia apart) or an absolute howler.
He played pretty well in the areas that he always plays pretty well in. He was lively around the breakdown, he has an eye for a gap and his passing (when he eventually threw the ball) was solid. He also puts in a very good shift defensively.
It is the same old problems with Duncan though. He very rarely seems to just put his hands in the ruck and spin the ball out. His default mode is to pick the ball up, run a step or two diagonally forward with his head up, then pass the ball if his break isn't on. This just eats up space for the backs outside. For every quick clean break Duncan makes off the base of a ruck there are 5 occasions where he has cost us an overlap or outside break due to hanging onto the ball too long. Duncan doesn't seem to handle pressure well either, he has a habit of letting his basics (control from the base, box kicking) go to pot when the squeeze is on.

[taz]

He's 26, and as with Varley, has had several years as a pro to perfect the most important aspect of his game, and he hasn't done it. If Murray suffers an injury at any stage this year, we are deep trouble, if Williams is ahead of Stringer, which by current selections would seem to be the case.

I take your point CA,it is an issue but it might be in some way related to the below.

Have a look at the stats on games he has played in the previous 3 seasons.
Starts+substitute appearances,including friendly appearances.

2011-2012-- 4+10
2010-2011-- 4+6
2009-2010-- 0+4
Total--------- 8+20


So in the last 3 years he has started just 8 matches(including friendlies).
When Murray returned after injury he did not come back quickly and looked mighty rusty in the pass for the whole run in to the end of last season.
I'd give Williams this season to see if he improves with a proper run in the team,which we can see ,he never really had due to injury or whatever other reason. Maybe thats why he is getting the starts ahead of Stringer so far.
Thats just my thoughts on it anyway.

[Sketchy]

He had a decent game. When I have seen Duncan play for Munster he seems to either have a decent game (Australia apart) or an absolute howler.
He played pretty well in the areas that he always plays pretty well in. He was lively around the breakdown, he has an eye for a gap and his passing (when he eventually threw the ball) was solid. He also puts in a very good shift defensively.
It is the same old problems with Duncan though. He very rarely seems to just put his hands in the ruck and spin the ball out. His default mode is to pick the ball up, run a step or two diagonally forward with his head up, then pass the ball if his break isn't on. This just eats up space for the backs outside. For every quick clean break Duncan makes off the base of a ruck there are 5 occasions where he has cost us an overlap or outside break due to hanging onto the ball too long. Duncan doesn't seem to handle pressure well either, he has a habit of letting his basics (control from the base, box kicking) go to pot when the squeeze is on.

Cheers for that.

So Murray is as vital to our HEC progression as BJ then really? We seem to have ample cover in every other position. Two key areas in terms of setpiece. Stringer will be a great option to bring on towards the end of a game but I dunno if he is the man to play 80 minutes of HEC rugby.

[Captain Average]

When you add in the fact that he's been playing regularly for his club during those 3 years, and has most likely done three years in the academy too (i'm open to correction on that), that is six years of being involved with Munster and he's still not up to standard.

[taz]

He was out for 12 months after a shoulder operation and then for another eight months after he tore his groin/hamstring area, right off the bone .
Thats a lot of time to have been missing from the sport.

[overthehillprop]

Cheers for that.

So Murray is as vital to our HEC progression as BJ then really? We seem to have ample cover in every other position. Two key areas in terms of setpiece. Stringer will be a great option to bring on towards the end of a game but I dunno if he is the man to play 80 minutes of HEC rugby.

I think a lot will depend on Penney's style of play and who he picks at 10. Under McGahan the policy of moving the ball from touchline to touchline without sucking in fringe defenders meant that ROG and Stringer offered no physical or running threat with the ball in hand and a centre shooting out of the defensive line could stop us moving the ball out wide and isolate the half backs with ball in hand making us easy to turn over. The Leinster semi in Croker and the Ospreys game at the end of last season are prime examples of where we were tactically out thought and so far apart that they show a real lack of ability or willingness to change.

Hopefully Penney can change our style and has both the nous himself and the players available to be able to do so on the pitch. Whether this means we have to change our outhalf or scrum half I don't know but it does mean that someone like Stringer may come back into the frame more and maybe not just as a game changing bench option. Stringer could play with a running threat at 10 like Keatley or JJ (if he really kicks on this season) or maybe the addition of Downey at 12 to truck ball up in traffic will take some of the weight off a half back pairing that don't have a running threat.

Also how we use our big ball carriers in the pack will have a big influence as players coming onto the ball from pace close to the breakdown and sucking in defenders (rather than the slow static one man pods we have been used to) could place more of an emphasis on the pass of the scrum half rather than the breaking ability.

[Colliniho]

Cheers for that.

So Murray is as vital to our HEC progression as BJ then really? We seem to have ample cover in every other position. Two key areas in terms of setpiece. Stringer will be a great option to bring on towards the end of a game but I dunno if he is the man to play 80 minutes of HEC rugby.

35 or not, but I still think Stringer is more than capable of doing a job for us for an hour at HC level. Not a view shared by everyone I know. Murray is justifiably first choice but where as we are utterly goosed without BJ, we'd survive without Murray. Williams flaws would be less exposed coming on for the last 20 minutes when guys are tired too.

BJ is comfortably our most important player IMO

[Sketchy]

I think a lot will depend on Penney's style of play and who he picks at 10. Under McGahan the policy of moving the ball from touchline to touchline without sucking in fringe defenders meant that ROG and Stringer offered no physical or running threat with the ball in hand and a centre shooting out of the defensive line could stop us moving the ball out wide and isolate the half backs with ball in hand making us easy to turn over. The Leinster semi in Croker and the Ospreys game at the end of last season are prime examples of where we were tactically out thought and so far apart that they show a real lack of ability or willingness to change.

Hopefully Penney can change our style and has both the nous himself and the players available to be able to do so on the pitch. Whether this means we have to change our outhalf or scrum half I don't know but it does mean that someone like Stringer may come back into the frame more and maybe not just as a game changing bench option. Stringer could play with a running threat at 10 like Keatley or JJ (if he really kicks on this season) or maybe the addition of Downey at 12 to truck ball up in traffic will take some of the weight off a half back pairing that don't have a running threat.

Also how we use our big ball carriers in the pack will have a big influence as players coming onto the ball from pace close to the breakdown and sucking in defenders (rather than the slow static one man pods we have been used to) could place more of an emphasis on the pass of the scrum half rather than the breaking ability.

Ya, you'd have to say the possibilities and permutations under Penney are endless. I hope he changes it up quite frequently as you've illustrated above and that we become a very unpredictable team. Constantly tweaking the emphasis and focus of attack, and using the different options we seem to have. Ulster had us sussed last year. They didn't even need the ball to beat us. They watched us beat ourselves cos our own predictability was so inhibiting.

Having said that though, I found it a bit strange that Penney hasn't given Strings a start out of the first 3 friendlies. Is that telling of the role he sees him play I wonder? I don't think we will have the biggest team by the looks of things. But we will have serious gas though. POM, DOC2, Ryan, Ronan, BOM, Stander, are all very fast men for their positions. We need to catch teams on the backfoot as often as we can to allow those forwards to be effective. Stringer would certainly facilitate that. Williams would seem to do the opposite. If Murray becomes the player he has shown he can be then he is the ultimate 9 for us. He will keep the opposition Wing forwards from darting across the field with his breaks, which at times were sensational last year. I think Penney is the man to banish the yips he picked up.

[Sketchy]

35 or not, but I still think Stringer is more than capable of doing a job for us for an hour at HC level. Not a view shared by everyone I know. Murray is justifiably first choice but where as we are utterly goosed without BJ, we'd survive without Murray. Williams flaws would be less exposed coming on for the last 20 minutes when guys are tired too.

BJ is comfortably our most important player IMO

A Stringer/ROG axis would be far too much of a defensive liability in my eyes. Any top team would have a field day with them and put exorbitant pressure on our backrow to compensate. Stringer/Keatley could work well though. Give Keatley plenty of time to assess the situation in front of him in terms of breaking or distributing. And Keatley is a big man that can well look after himslef in the tackle.

[Thomond78]

He had a decent game. When I have seen Duncan play for Munster he seems to either have a decent game (Australia apart) or an absolute howler. He played pretty well in the areas that he always plays pretty well in. He was lively around the breakdown, he has an eye for a gap and his passing (when he eventually threw the ball) was solid. He also puts in a very good shift defensively.It is the same old problems with Duncan though. He very rarely seems to just put his hands in the ruck and spin the ball out. His default mode is to pick the ball up, run a step or two diagonally forward with his head up, then pass the ball if his break isn't on. This just eats up space for the backs outside. For every quick clean break Duncan makes off the base of a ruck there are 5 occasions where he has cost us an overlap or outside break due to hanging onto the ball too long. Duncan doesn't seem to handle pressure well either, he has a habit of letting his basics (control from the base, box kicking) go to pot when the squeeze is on.

Pretty fair assessment with which I'd largely agree.

[cookie kid]

Speaking to a few young munster heads tonight at their charity cup game, apparently former cookie Ian cross was supposed to be in the London Irish squad for tomorrow nights game with munster. Big pity for him. Apparently he needed surgery as it was a bad break, he is still only 22 so I suppose he has time on his side.

[Viigand]

Is he the guy that used to play rugby league?

[cookie kid]

Yes that's the one, he signed for st helens over a year ago, heard good things but apparently he wanted To go back to union and asked to be released by them to pursue an offer from London Irish. So the lads on the sidelines at young munster say.

[McCloud]

‘Now we must up our game’

By Barry Coughlan
Friday, August 24, 2012
Rob Penney will be more concerned with a progress report than anything else when Munster take on London Irish at Musgrave Park this evening (7pm).
However, that will not detract the new coach from wanting a positive result from a game that, by his own admission, is about working out how to sort out his best starting 15.

With 12 players missing, Penney has been thrown straight into a very tough job that means a lot of youngsters are trying to make their way through.

"From a coaching perspective we’re still trying to get a handle on the playing stocks and the only way you can see that is when they’re out in the middle in anger, doing their bit," he said.

"So we have been using a lot of people and making some changes but we will be trying to refine that down a little bit."

Penney admitted there was room to work upon, particularly in the build up to the opening RaboDirect Pro12 clash against Heineken Cup rivals Edinburgh.

"Within the style of game that we’re trying to play, we’ll be striving for more accuracy, more attention to detail and probably lifting our intensity a bit will be the aims for this week. We’ve been pretty low key up to now but as we head into the next period we’re going to need to ratchet up our performance so that we hit the ground running against Edinburgh.

"Yeah, I’m really hopeful it will be a genuine hit-out. London Irish are obviously a quality side and we’re still feeling our way in a couple of positions so there’s opportunities for guys to really put their hand up. The challenge for them is to take the opportunity and show to us that they really want to be a part of the early-season programme at least."

Heineken Cup champions Leinster bit the dust against Northampton last week, with the English club hitting a peak to secure a big victory.

The Munster coach remarked: "I think always you’re trying to have a team that’s going to grow. And part of that is not to undermine greatly, if you can, the confidence of individuals and the squad.

"So the guys coming out of the Premiership will be bloody tough. They’ll be hardened and they’ll be excited about the following weekend as we should be.

"I’m sure the Leinster boys, as we will do when you get that many points scored against you, there’s a lot of learning on the back of that, almost better learning than maybe you do when you have a robust win.

"So, yes, we’ll be endeavouring to put a good performance together and without understanding totally what London Irish will bring, hopefully it’s a good, competitive hit-out."

George Skivington will make his first appearance for London Irish when he takes the field against Munster this evening. Skivington will partner Bryn Evans in the second row, with the New Zealand international captaining the side for a third consecutive week.

Jamie Gibson starts at blindside flanker and Steve Shingler at fly-half in two other changes from the side that started against Newport Gwent Dragons last Friday.

MUNSTER: D Hurley; D Howlett (captain), C Laulala, J Downey, J Murphy; I Keatley, D Williams; W du Preez, D Varley, BJ Botha; D Foley, B Holland; D O’Callaghan, S Dougall, J Coughlan.

Replacements: M Horan, S Henry, S Archer, P Donnellan, T O’Donnell, P Butler, P Stringer, S Deasy, S Scanlon, L O’Dea.

LONDON IRISH: T Homer, T Ojo, J Joseph, J Ansboro, S Tagicabicuo, S Shingler, T O’Leary, M Lahiff, S Lawson, L Halavutua, B Evans (captain), G Skivington, J Gibson, J Fisher, O Treviranus.

Irish Examiner

[taz]

Hopefully the rain will ease off ,or it will be a horrible night in the terrace,especially for a plonker who forgot to bring his jacket this morning.

[Dumptruck]

Hopefully the rain will ease off ,or it will be a horrible night in the terrace,especially for a plonker who forgot to bring his jacket this morning.

Then upgrade to the stand..

[taz]

Then upgrade to the stand..

Family ticket..

[Dumptruck]

Family ticket..

Ah go over to the cabin by Dolphin and talk nicely to Jennifer..

[McCloud]

Hopefully someone going will provide updates?

[John Cooper Clarke]

Hopefully someone going will provide updates?

No chance

[Dumptruck]

No chance

twitter updates from munsterrugby.ie

[Colliniho]

I'll put up a few updates but a lot less than last week. Can't be typing in this rain

[Stringer9]

Can't wait!! We've been rugbyless for too long.

[GEORGETHEBEST]

Hopefully the rain will ease off ,or it will be a horrible night in the terrace,especially for a plonker who forgot to bring his jacket this morning.

You will be grand, the sun is coming out now

[taz]

Can't wait!! We've been rugbyless for too long.

Bristol were here last week.

[Captain Average]

I'll throw up a few updates too, if tis not raining.

[taz]

You will be grand, the sun is coming out now

I found a hoodie in the back of the car at lunchtime,but If I wear it dumptruck will be giving out.

[Thomond78]

Hopefully someone going will provide updates?

What's the magic word...?

[MrsMcGahan]

Do it or else!
4 magic words