Our hands were tied, due to his age under IRFU regulations we could only offer a 1 year extension whereas he got a longer more lucrative offer from Stade. We didn't want him to go and by all accounts I'm not sure he wanted to leave but our hands were tied.Originally Posted by sledger2003
I'll Flake Ya!
http://dontbuythesun.co.uk/1.png
"Be moderate in everything, including moderation." - Horace Porter
Haven't seen the pre-season friendlies so can't & won't comment on individual performances. I will however have a gripe with the IRFU player management program. Of course, it has proven benefits and you only need to look at our success at INTL level compared with the Welsh, English or French to see how well it works. Oh Wait...... D'Oh. Yes, this player management program that is perhaps one of the reasons for our lack of sucess at INTL level (nothing beats games - ask the Welsh) and which has seriously tied the hands of our new coach.
It sounds like many of our extended squad will have difficulties with how Penney wants them to play the game and that he's better out finding that out now rather than at the business end of the season. They may eventually make it but it'll need time and that is perhaps time they don't have (think we'll start seeing less and less of certain players). I don't think there is any doubt that when everyone is available i.e. Sherry, Ryan, PO'M, Murray, Earls, Zebo, Jones (if he could only stay fit) then we have the personel to play a fast recycling game. There is also general optimism about the likes of DOCII, Hanrahan, Dougal, Nagle, Kilcoyn etc who it appears will make the step up. Basically we'll only be able to judge Penney after all those players are integrated into the squad and have had time to get used to playing this way. We haved to accept there will be lots of errors until then.
We have to remember that Penney has only been able to pick the 2nds so far. The experience will stand to some and watching the videos will be uncomfortable viewing for others. Better to find out now than in a HEC match.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again (like picking Gordon D'Arcy) and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein
Haven't seen any of the games myself, but from the comments from the posters that have Dougal seems to be the guy that has put his hand up well in each game, which is great to hear.
Yes Dougall (or "Ted" as someone in the crowd last FRiday night called him) has shown well
Also Luke O Dea against Bristol and Dave O Callaghan
Yes, but it's guys whom we are looking to step up that are really disappointing. FH, SH and hooker are open for new blood, and for the past 2 seasons. IK and DW aren't exactly just out of schools rugby, yet they are not near what's needed by all accounts; DV should now be considered a senior player. Throwing is a basic skill for a hooker. We may have a solution there, but to be still relying on a pair of halves (rightly regarded as legends....) who are in the wrong half-decade of their 30s is just more than careless; it's madness.
Haven't been at the games myself, but accounts suggest the team 'isn't up for it', which would really rankle. I'm not about to criticise RP after 3 friendlies, but if he can't get guys 'up for it' when given the chance to line out in a red jersey, then I'm seriously concerned for Munster in the season ahead.
I don't know what the situation with Varley (and Fogarty before him) is. Surely it can't be that he's not bothered putting in the hours of practice in, can it? R. Best was a shambles of a thrower about 5 or so seasons ago but he really put in the hours (on top of normal training) to improve that area and while I still wouldn't bet my morgage on the guys throwing, it is now at a level where he can more than get by at INTL level allowing us to benefit from his other strenghts. Varley is great around the pitch but it's clear that in the LO, he's a serious liability. How long will that continue under Penney?
But the biggest question for me is - whether our extended squad can play to the level required for the type of game Penney wants to play (because I've little doubt our 1st team will be able to given time). He can hardly devise one gameplan for our 1st's and another less expansive one for the 'limited talent' of our 2nds as most players need to be interchangeable anyway (be able to come in without changing way teams play unless that is the objective of the substitution e.g. bringing Stringer on to speed up service). That may mean more recruiting from the fringes of the other provinces (e.g. F. Jones, Keatley, N. Ronan) and the championship (e.g. Dougal, Downey) in the medium term for IQ players who can do a better job then the current 'understudies'. I think we have a decent 20 - 25 players but beyond that there could be a big drop off in quality.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again (like picking Gordon D'Arcy) and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein
Dougall has done well in the 2 musser games. As there is still no sign of Ronan returning he would look to be well ahead of BOM for the 7 shirt against Edinburgh. TOD has played at 6 and even 8 to date rather than at 7.
Tough choice as to who will play at 8. Neither Butler not Coughlan have put their hand up in pre-season. If DOC2 is fit then he'll probably get the nod ahead of Tommy for the 6 jersey. Tommy deserves at least a spot on the bench so hopefully the injury that took him off last Friday isn't serious.
It appears that Holland Foley are in pole position to form Saturdays second row. I don't expect to see much of either of them in Heineken Cup action this year and based on their 2 abject performances to date you couldn't argue with Donnellan or Hayes getting a shot from the off against Edinburgh instead.
BJ and Wian must start at prop. Will be an interesting call between Killer and Marcus for the bench spot. Archer appears to be ahead of Ryan, Condon and Cotter (who may still be injured) for the no. 18 jersey.
On form it is absolutely anybody's guess who'll start at hooker. Could be Varley, Henry, Slattery or Casey. I'd like to think that 2 appalling games have dumped Varley out of the team and that Henry will start.
\"In a world gone mad, only a lunatic is truly insane\"
From what you've seen would you be inclined to go for Hurley or Scanlon at fullback?
PW was never going to stay sledger as there were more personal issues for his family at play.
I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody - Bill Cosby
For me Hurley has been our most consistent player over the last 2 weeks. You just couldn't leave him out.
If I was picking the team I'd probably find a spot for Luke and Scanlon in the 23. I suspect Johnne will push one of them out however.
In their limited time on the field Barnes and Dineen showed enough to suggest to me that they have as much right to the 12 and 13 jerseys as Downey and Laulala have. As with the no. 2 jersey it'll be up to Penney to choose between some brief semblance of form and reputation/experience.
JJ not being involved in the 2 senior games in the last fortnight would indicate its Deasy or Keatley at 10. Little to choose between them really. Deasy did a few things right when he came on against LI but they were already past caring and we were well well beaten at that stage.
Stringer deserves to play at 9. Let's all hope he does.
\"In a world gone mad, only a lunatic is truly insane\"
I'd pretty much agree with Collinho on that. Especially so on Barnes, LOD, Hurley and Stringer.
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
Good stuff. Cheers for that.
2, 4, 5, 9, and 10 are areas we seem to be struggling at with the internationals away. The spine of the team. Looks like ROG may still be top dog. We need Keatley to put Friday behind him as quick as possible. He could well do with Stringers old head beside him.
Add 8 and 12 to that list. That's essentially half the team. That's a lot of holes going into September.
\"In a world gone mad, only a lunatic is truly insane\"
Really? Well Couhglin is only back so he could come back to his best. Does Downey look he could improve?
Coughlan was phenomenal 2 seasons ago. I thought he was a good bit back on that last year and he was terrible against LI. Let's hope it's rust rather than anything else.
I'm waiting for Butler to put in a real breakout performance. I haven't seen it yet and I still think he could use a couple more kilos on him.
Downey defended well at least against Bristol. He was an absolute liability against LI.
Let's hope that can be put down to him not having settled in yet.
\"In a world gone mad, only a lunatic is truly insane\"
Butler definitely needs a few kilos. Possibly a year too soon for him. Only 21 yet. Plenty of Rabo would stand him well. Coughlan may struggle with the likes of POM and CJ around.
I really like the sound of a DOC2, POM, Stander backrow. With Paulie, D Ryan and Sherry to come back we'll be a completely different animal upfront come year end.
\"In a world gone mad, only a lunatic is truly insane\"
Leave looks out of it, he must!
Mumha Abu
Ya, same. POM or Stander 7 would be the big question.
If we could convince Stander to stay that could be a serious backrow for a number of years.
I just hope that after a Super 15 and Currie Cup filled season that he isn't completely knackered by the time he gets over here.
Worst case scenario his gameload this summer combined with the time needed to get acclimatised to his new surroundings could see this season be a tough one.
\"In a world gone mad, only a lunatic is truly insane\"
Stander is more a 6/8 than a 7 though I think.
Ya, he definitely is alright. So is POM really. So out of DOC2, POM, and CJ, which is the backrow I would like to see and Coliniho mentioned as well, there isn't a natural 7. POM alluded to the fact that he wanted to learn the 7 position. He could be great there, and it is a position that we don't have huge options in. Dougal is playing well by all accounts, but it's impossible to say if he would be up to HEC standard yet. Took SOB a while to get the hang of the 7 role. I think POM could be the man if he is given time there.
I'm all for having an out and out 7 and there is definitely a logic in it. Niall Ronan could certainly have a big part to play in this season yet.
Leinster have shown that having a "balanced" backrow (giant at 6, groundhog at 7, footballer at 8) isn't a prerequisite to success though. Schmidt has trained up the likes of Strauss, Healy , O'Brien and Heaslip and made them into devastating breakdown players. This has allowed them to use O'Brien at 7 and bring in another lineout option and excellent defender in McLoughlin at 6. They only start Jennings when they need him.
A backrow of CJ, POM and DOC2 has all the pace, power, mobility and ball playing ability to negate the need for an out and out 7, IF the pack as a whole can be trained to boss the breakdown.
\"In a world gone mad, only a lunatic is truly insane\"
Agree completely with you. They also have BOD at 13 who is an honorary 7 too. The only problem with Munster is I struggle to see breakdown operators in the rest of our pack. None of the props do it. Varley can do it very well (that along with ball carrying are why he has started so much in my opinion) POC can do it sometimes. DOC can't. Ryan needs to continue his improvement in the last few seasons to bring this into his game more. Can't see any of our backs doing it.
Definitely, I think the lack of an out-and-out 7 is only really exposed at the highest International level. As you said it can be compensated by different positions. BJ Botha is actually very effective for Munster at the breakdown I think. Steals a fair bit of ball. Very squat and difficult to shift from the base.
We will still have to pick who will play at 7 though, and you get a whole different SOB at 6/8 than you do at 7. He gets through far less ball in hand work at 7. Judging from the pace and power that Stander has, we may best be served with him at 8, and let POM concentrate on the breakdown duties a bit more.
Anyone else think if you get POM at 6 and Stander at 8 and a full strength team around him that Dougall might well be the fetching 7 we need? I'm very interested to see how he can perform with the internationals back if he gets a chance.
To be fair to Hurley, he was playing really well at full back last year until he was pushed to the wing to facilitate the return of Jones. Jones proceeded to show no form and is now injured again. Hurley is a seriously big unit hitting the line from fullback. I agree that Earls may see some time there this year but I would start with Hurley.
I haven't seen him play yet so I am quite excited to see him run out on Saturday. Seems to have been the pick of the pack over the pre-season friendlies. If he is good enough that's great. Penney seems to like him anyway. Gave him special mention in an interview after one of the games.
Don't have the time to read back the thread from the last few days so if already written,my apologies.
Joe Ansbro broke his neck during the match against Munster last Friday.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-u...medium=twitter
Otaga Daily Times 2/5/2012
Taz-Where did you get that information as I have seen nowhere that he(Penney) was ruled out?
Editor - The writer stands by the Penney information.
Otaga Daily Times 3/5/2012
Editor-- This article originally said Rob Penney had missed out on the Munster coaching job. That information was incorrect.
As bad and all as the result was, just found this online
London Irish
and Scotland centre Joe Ansbro has suffered a broken neck while playing in a
pre-season match against Munster.
Ansbro, 26, is in hospital in Cork but is expected to be flown home later
this week.
The centre has scored three tries in his 11 Scotland matches, having made his
debut against South Africa in the Autumn Test series.
He scored a try in the World Cup game against Romania in Invercargill.
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