Earls 13?

[Sketchy]

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/r...wn-202572.html

He is putting his hand up again.

Personally, I think he is the best 13 in Ireland at the moment, including BOD.

I think if we weren't blessed to have BOD, Earls would be the greatest 13 we ever had. Having BOD there has stunted his development at 13. But he is starting to get there now. His acceleration through a gap is a joy to behold. I would hate to see him on the wing again. The only other place I would like to see him is at 15. Reminds me of Christian Cullen the way he joins a moving backline. No other Irish 15 can join a backline as seamlessly as him.

[Colliniho]

It's on a few other threads already but the core problem is that what Keith wants is not necessarily what is best for Munster. Casey Laulala is in (saw him in town yesterday, not as blocky as I thought) and is a potentially top class 13 for us. Munster may well be better served playing Keith at 11, 12, 14 or 15 where maybe we don't have the same quality

[busby]

Top class 13 imho after his games there for Ireland last year, but with Kidney bottling the selection in the last test in New Zealand, and with Downey and Laulala likely to be in there from the start for the first few games, and with Jones out for a while at the start of the season, it seems set up for him be in the back 3.

[joconnell]

With the old (non existent) Munster back play Earls and Zebo did very well on the wing with their ability to do it all themselves, it'll be very interesting to see earls playing outside a 12 known for his offloads and also two running 10's in Keatley and Hanrahan. I wonder who'll be the utility back on the bench though? You'd imagine there'll be stringer and ROG / Hanrahan / Keatley there but say for example earls starts at 13, will they have Laulala benching with earls dropping to 15 in the event of a sub? Casey doesn't really play another spot so will it be Johnny Murphy or Denis Hurley? It's a fair headache

[Bitter As A Lemon]

He is a class 13 alright, but better than O'Driscoll?
Come on man...

[Sketchy]

With the old (non existent) Munster back play Earls and Zebo did very well on the wing with their ability to do it all themselves, it'll be very interesting to see earls playing outside a 12 known for his offloads and also two running 10's in Keatley and Hanrahan. I wonder who'll be the utility back on the bench though? You'd imagine there'll be stringer and ROG / Hanrahan / Keatley there but say for example earls starts at 13, will they have Laulala benching with earls dropping to 15 in the event of a sub? Casey doesn't really play another spot so will it be Johnny Murphy or Denis Hurley? It's a fair headache

Ya, the amount of times you see Earls fly past a ball carriers shoulder and they didn't have the vision to pop it off to him into the gap. Hopefully Downey if at 12 can do that.

It is a serious headache, but a good one at that.

Laulala did play 12 for Baabaas. But obviously he is best at 13.

[John Cooper Clarke]

..Casey Laulala is in (saw him in town yesterday, not as blocky as I thought) and is a potentially top class 13 for us.

Try tackling him next time. He's 101kgs.

[the plastic paddy]

He is a class 13 alright, but better than O'Driscoll?
Come on man...

After BOD's performances in NZ there could be an argument that now Earls is playing better than BOD. However, better than BOD at his best, err no!!!!! Think Stetchy's argument is a sound one however and I will be very disappointed, for Munster and Ireland's sake, if The Earl is not first choice in the 13 red jersey hopefully outside Downey. Keatley and JJ fighting for the 10 start ( ROG obviously keeping a very close watch on proceedings). Dougie and Zebo on the wings with Hurley FB and Jones back at 15 if his form and fitness justifies it, another McGahan mistake to cast Hurley aside. All of that said, one player I am really looking forward to seeing this year, fingers crossed he enjoys a bit of luck with injuries, is Troy Smith and I will not be writing off Danny Barnes either, another player p*ssed about by McGahan.

[taz]

I am looking forward to seeing Earls playing next season,whatever number shirt he is playing in.

[Sketchy]

He is a class 13 alright, but better than O'Driscoll?
Come on man...

I think he is currently better than BOD yes. Overall? Of course not. Age catches up on us all. That is why BOD could still make a savage 12 with his strength, skill and vision. BOD can't get outside his man in the 13 channel any more. Keith is a master at flying outside and drawing the man. 13 is all about the outside arch. Look at Conrad Smith. He plays so simple but yet so effectively.

People seem to forget that other than Kearney, who was outstanding, Keith was our best back in the 6 Nations gone by. He stepped up and made more yards than BOD would have had for sure. His pace is electric. We will have Laulala for 2 years. Keith will be there for 6 or 7 we hope. Time for him to play in his favourite position I think.

[Colliniho]

Try tackling him next time. He's 101kgs.

Nah, it was too wet. I'd never have gotten enough grip with the work shoes on either...

[Weetabix]

You'd think with Felix out for a while Earls will be at 15. Maybe he'll grow to love it again.

[thepunter]

Ya, the amount of times you see Earls fly past a ball carriers shoulder and they didn't have the vision to pop it off to him into the gap. Hopefully Downey if at 12 can do that.

It is a serious headache, but a good one at that.

Laulala did play 12 for Baabaas. But obviously he is best at 13.

downey can definitely do that.Been watching him ages now, and last season in particular for Northampton his passing game became very good. Some really classy offloads that opened huge gaps. He's better at it than he's generally given credit for that's for sure.

On lualua, ive never been convinced by him and I fear another Munster flop. Hard to remember him having a brilliant 80 minutes in recent years, popping up here and there with a break or two, but that's it. Hopefully that was just the stifling South Walian surrounds, and I sincerely hope i'm wrong.

[Sketchy]

downey can definitely do that.Been watching him ages now, and last season in particular for Northampton his passing game became very good. Some really classy offloads that opened huge gaps. He's better at it than he's generally given credit for that's for sure.

Good to hear. Most of what I have seen of Downey has been against us. I did catch a few of his games before last season and he impresses, although his long pass was muck. Really caused the defence issues with his physical presence.

[B.A.]

On lualua, ive never been convinced by him and I fear another Munster flop. Hard to remember him having a brilliant 80 minutes in recent years, popping up here and there with a break or two, but that's it. Hopefully that was just the stifling South Walian surrounds, and I sincerely hope i'm wrong.

It's Laulala. He never played for Newcastle.


I saw him playing against the Connacht in the sportsground and he was in a different class from the westies and the Blues. He is a serious operator, a real talent with a great attitude. I reckon he'll be a great signing for us. But I agree, Downey could be the most important signing we made this season. It's been a long time since we had a proper ball carrying threat in the backs to keep the defence honest. That'll also free-up O'Gara that bit more.

[HenryFitz]

Presumably the aim of Irish rugby is to be as good as New Zealand, currently and historically the best team in the world. Briefly then, Irish rugby should be looking to train and produce an outside centre at least as good as Conrad Smith to replace Brian O'Driscoll. There's no guarantee that Earls will be that good, but it's not going to happen if he's stuck behind a player from NZ who's definitely not as good as Conrad Smith. Add in the possible disruption to Zebo's progress on the wing, and it's a pretty damning instance of short-term provincial interests potentially damaging the national team.

[joconnell]

It's been a long time since we had a proper ball carrying threat in the backs to keep the defence honest. That'll also free-up O'Gara that bit more.

To do what though? Downey is a 12 that'll break a one on one tackle most of the time. The advantage you get is when the opposition have to double tackle him to prevent the break or an offload, so then you're playing 15 vs 14. With Rog he's got no breaking threat so when defending it's back to 14 vs 14, Rog is easily covered or ignored. What'll be way more interesting is Hanrahan or Keatley at 10 who will fix their opposition defender and you've got the opposition stuck between a line break from downey 1 on 1 or creating a hole in the defence for the 10.

[Red Hand Hero]

I wonder are these old statements that have been re-hashed to suit the journalists piece or does Keet insist upon gurning to any journo who will listen that he doesn't like to play anywhere else other than 13? I hope its the former otherwise it really is becoming a little tiresome.

[Sketchy]

Presumably the aim of Irish rugby is to be as good as New Zealand, currently and historically the best team in the world. Briefly then, Irish rugby should be looking to train and produce an outside centre at least as good as Conrad Smith to replace Brian O'Driscoll. There's no guarantee that Earls will be that good, but it's not going to happen if he's stuck behind a player from NZ who's definitely not as good as Conrad Smith. Add in the possible disruption to Zebo's progress on the wing, and it's a pretty damning instance of short-term provincial interests potentially damaging the national team.

Ya, well said. I've always thought we don't get the best out of Earls. Imagine how good he'd be if he grew up playing his rugby in New Zealand? He has been very unfortunate to be developing behind BOD was in his prime. Much like Sexton suffered as a result of ROG's dominance. If we didn't have ROG and BOD, Sexton and Earls would be the golden generation. New Zealand rarely leave talent undeveloped. They use their tests to great effect, whereas we only develop through injury.

[Dowlinz]

My view is Earls is a mediocre 13 and needs to shut up with this garbage to the media trying to put pressure on coaches. He's stagnating his own career by vying to play in a position where he's inferior to another at both club and country level. He's a fine winger but will be a fine nothing if he keeps going with this attitude. Very reminiscent of Luke Fitzgerald 2 years ago.

[HenryFitz]

Ya, well said. I've always thought we don't get the best out of Earls. Imagine how good he'd be if he grew up playing his rugby in New Zealand? He has been very unfortunate to be developing behind BOD was in his prime. Much like Sexton suffered as a result of ROG's dominance. If we didn't have ROG and BOD, Sexton and Earls would be the golden generation. New Zealand rarely leave talent undeveloped. They use their tests to great effect, whereas we only develop through injury.

True enough. Though Sexton is at least playing in his preferred position.

Earls is at an age when he needs to make one position his own and stick to it. I don't think there's anything wrong with him telling the press so after he's told the coaches. He's not waging a campaign by media. He's just being honest.

New Zealand are lucky, in that they're always developing from a position of strength. Ireland haven't been able to do so since 2009, when Sexton, Healy and O'Brien came through. But the point about players going on too long here is fair. Once a player is past it in New Zealand, he goes away to feather his retirement nest. Here, the tax laws discourage that, and with no transfer-market, as well as imports and old lads cluttering up the pathway, it's hard for young players to get the experience they need at the time it will most benefit them. There are too many might-have-beens in Irish rugby. Players at the end of their careers should be either has-beens or never-weres; the system should allow them that opportunity to define themselves at least.

[Cowboy]

Earls at 13 is similar to several of our players though. We've a rake of fellas who can do a job in several positions but are masters of none of them. I'm hoping new management will take a handle of this issue and hone their skills to specific positions.

Tired of the chopping and changing and filling in. Create competition from 1-15 and internal battles between fellas for the same shirt.

[Colliniho]

Earls at 13 is similar to several of our players though. We've a rake of fellas who can do a job in several positions but are masters of none of them. I'm hoping new management will take a handle of this issue and hone their skills to specific positions.

Tired of the chopping and changing and filling in. Create competition from 1-15 and internal battles between fellas for the same shirt.

Couldn't agree more.

The like of Barnes, O'Dea, Dineen and even Denis Hurley need to fix positions and stick with them. It is never any harm having guys who can move around backlines (we can only select one outside back on the bench) but this "utility back" label has rarely done many players any favours.

[Sketchy]

My view is Earls is a mediocre 13 and needs to shut up with this garbage to the media trying to put pressure on coaches. He's stagnating his own career by vying to play in a position where he's inferior to another at both club and country level. He's a fine winger but will be a fine nothing if he keeps going with this attitude. Very reminiscent of Luke Fitzgerald 2 years ago.

Jesus, did Earls beat on you when you were a kid or something? That argument is tiresome at best. Explain why he is not good enough at 13? What attributes does he lack? All you have uttered is generic waffle.

[Waterfordlad]

Spot on Colliniho

[Sketchy]

True enough. Though Sexton is at least playing in his preferred position.

Earls is at an age when he needs to make one position his own and stick to it. I don't think there's anything wrong with him telling the press so after he's told the coaches. He's not waging a campaign by media. He's just being honest.

New Zealand are lucky, in that they're always developing from a position of strength. Ireland haven't been able to do so since 2009, when Sexton, Healy and O'Brien came through. But the point about players going on too long here is fair. Once a player is past it in New Zealand, he goes away to feather his retirement nest. Here, the tax laws discourage that, and with no transfer-market, as well as imports and old lads cluttering up the pathway, it's hard for young players to get the experience they need at the time it will most benefit them. There are too many might-have-beens in Irish rugby. Players at the end of their careers should be either has-beens or never-weres; the system should allow them that opportunity to define themselves at least.

Couldn't agree more. As a nation we struggle to let go. I'm not a soccer fan but look at the flogging of Robbie Keane at the Euros when you have someone like Shane Long chomping at the bit. We can't let a good thing go.

Even when SOB broke through it was only due to an injury. Same with Ross.

We have flogged BOD, ROG, D'Arcy, DOC, Hayes, (at the time) etc at huge detriment to those left behind after.

Earls is a guy who has always lacked confidence in his own ability. He seems to have found it at 13, where he has played all his life. It would be fairly damaging for him mentally if he gets shunted around this season.

[Balla Boy]

I'm not sure how we're supposed to tell, tbh. Has Earls ever played 13 outside an in form 12? Ever?

He and BOD looked interesting together in attack, but there's a huge amount to be tested still I think.

I think he has the tools to be a 13, but I think we'd be hard pressed to argue that he has ever influenced a game from 13 the way he has in the back three.

His best international performance by some way was at FB.

[blackwarrior]

His best international performance by some way was at FB.

I presume you mean against England - I half agree with you from the attacking point of view, but England were on the back foot all afternoon. He uses his pace well attacking the line from 15, and he can kick. But I think he has the intelligence for 13 and he is still learning. At this stage, I'm in the school that says give him tenure in one position, probably 13, and forget about BOD!

[Dowlinz]

Jesus, did Earls beat on you when you were a kid or something? That argument is tiresome at best. Explain why he is not good enough at 13? What attributes does he lack? All you have uttered is generic waffle.

It's simple he's played more bad games than good at 13. He had a good six nations and a so-so campaign with munster the few times he played. Conversely every 13 appearance for Ireland pre-2012 was dreadful, in the world cup warmup against France he was horrific there, against New Zealand this summer he with BOD formed one of the worst Irish midfields ever seen.

I've nothing whatsoever against Earls, he's a wonderful winger and long may he continue with that. I'd even have time for him at fullback where he does have a decent track record. I've everything against Earls playing 13, mostly for the fact that hes not very good at it and in playing him there we're debilitating both Munster and Ireland. Lualala and BOD at 13 without hesitation, this shouldn't even be a question.

[blackwarrior]

It's simple he's played more bad games than good at 13. He had a good six nations and a so-so campaign with munster the few times he played. Conversely every 13 appearance for Ireland pre-2012 was dreadful, in the world cup warmup against France he was horrific there, against New Zealand this summer he with BOD formed one of the worst Irish midfields ever seen.

I've nothing whatsoever against Earls, he's a wonderful winger and long may he continue with that. I'd even have time for him at fullback where he does have a decent track record. I've everything against Earls playing 13, mostly for the fact that hes not very good at it and in playing him there we're debilitating both Munster and Ireland. Lualala and BOD at 13 without hesitation, this shouldn't even be a question.

Great post, even though I disagree with you. But this forum needs a bit of needle - this must be the sleepiest summer period ever on Munsterfans.