Man dies and seven are stabbed at Dublin concert

[John Cooper Clarke]

I'm not sure he's right about there being no link between the scobes and the music. Seems to me at least that there's a clear connection, for whatever reason.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking11.html

A doctor who was on duty at Blanchardstown hospital’s A&E last weekend said the “elephant in the room” in relation to trouble at the Phoenix Park concerts was the lack of individual responsibility.
Dr Joe McKeever said the vast majority of the 145,000 people that attended the concerts over the three days enjoyed themselves and added it was a bit “hypocritical” to blame the type of music that was performed on Saturday night.
“I think the vast majority of people that went enjoyed themselves, and I do think that it is a little bit hypocritical to talk about the type of music that was [played] on Saturday night. I was a very avid fan of the Clash and the Specials which in my day would have been a high voltage . . . atmosphere,” he told RTÉ radio.
“The only thing was that alcohol wasn’t as freely available from common outlets, and it certainly wasn’t as cheap, so I don’t think we were any better behaved or more moralistic. I just think we didn’t have access.”......

[the plastic paddy]

In construction, yes. But, certainly in the UK, the bulk of immigrant labour was soaked up in agriculture, cleaning, coffee shops and bars etc etc. And, unfortunately, the work wasn't necessarily where it needed to be geographically. The migrant labourer has an advantage in terms of location. It's no good there being thousands of jobs in the south east when half of Hull or Sunderland are out of work.

It has been different in Ireland, where welfare levels are also very different, but I think you're exaggerating the notion that even when there was work people didn't want it. The UK approached what many economists agreed was practically full employment. The vast majority of people who could work did. There weren't millions of people sitting around refusing to work.

I agree with you that we have reached a point where there are people in our society who will refuse to work even when they can, but I don't agree that they are a significant part of the welfare bill.

I also think that it's an error to equate the welfare state with unemployment in the way that you're suggesting. 8 out of 10 recipients of housing benefit in London are in full time work. A significant number of working people were receiving tax credits and other forms of relief.

The greatest burden to emerge in the UK's welfare bill over the last 20 years isn't the unemployable. It's the role that the state has adopted in subsidising the ****ty wages offered by the UK's major employers.

You mean Gordon Brown's great flagship the tax credit? It could be argued that the genius Brown, he who told everyone that he had personally ended "boom and bust", encouraged companies to keep wages low, make more profits and pay more taxes; the tax credit would pick up the financial shortfall and the great Gordon the political credit all the while increasing the public sector. But there I am being cynical again.

[joeriddick]

Read in the bible of the British liberal bleeding heart classes, The Observer, last Sunday that, surprise, surprise, longer sentences do deter crime, especially but not exclusively burglary. Sod their civil rights - get them off the streets. Spent a year on the open prison farm in Shelton, picking spuds etc. The skangers and travellers there were scared of their ****e and dreaded any type of work. Three strikes (properly calibrated) and you do serious crime, and you work your way while in there, and are treated like a human being (but not indulged). No automatic 25% remission unless for excellent and altered behaviour. The liberal classes with their 'bourgeois' (and how they hate that term) self loathing need be ignored and the public safety of our normal citizens protected.

First of all, I'm neither liberal or suffering from a "bleeding heart", a clogged heart perhaps (thanks, 4 months of Dino's), but my current aortic integrity is pretty much 100%. Second of all, as someone who has been mugged on this saintly isle I have no interest in soft soaping criminals (be they Seanie Fitz or Wayne Murphy down the park). What I want is less crime. The article you mention (link here) said that "The researchers concluded that prison was particularly effective in reducing property crime when targeted at serious and repeat offenders". The repeat offenders were locked up for longer so crime fell because the main perpetrators were in prison - nothing unexpected there.

We can make some base assumptions in this issue -

1: Poverty causes (most) crime.
2: People aren't born criminals.
3: If given sufficient (financial and moral) encouragement by society the vast majority of people will not want to commit crime.
4: There will always be a hard core of people who will stay criminals regardless.

So what do we do? Do we pound our chests, lock 'em up and throw away the key? Or make crime something that's more trouble than it's worth?

The liberal classes with their 'bourgeois' (and how they hate that term) self loathing need be ignored and the public safety of our normal citizens protected.

This tiresome division into right/left arguments gets nothing done. I'd prefer to make crime disappear at the roots than to build more and more and more prisons. Revenge & Punishment porn will only make people want to avoid getting caught more then it will make them want to not be criminals.

[joeriddick]

Hi there Balla, not being ultra right wing , but my remarks on the modern welfare state is that it is economically untenable, as our current economic and taxation model dictate. IMO one of the unspoken issues in years to come will be allocation of all state resources in areas like social welfare, health and so on - how will scarce medical cash be used in extending life for the terminally ill e.g.. Nobody wants to debate it now but it is the elephant in the room. Medical science advances but at huge cost, and the state will eventually deciding when and if to avail of these advances.
Same applies in social welfare. Our rates may not be very good but are high by overall European standards, in a situation where all our spending is under scrutiny from the Troika. I would not like to be living on social welfare myself but it could come to pass, with the stunning continuing decline in the domestic Irish economy.
I suppose that our 'nearer Boston than Berlin' model is over, as we cannot have Berlin social spending with Boston taxation rates. We will have to stop thinking of ourselves in the company of the Nordics and Germany/Netherlands, and accept our status with the 'Club Med', where from my personal knowledge with a Portugese lady, social welfare benefits are low and cease approx 18 months after losing your job. We simply do not have the means to affords what we have/ Sad but true.
The 3 strikes idea is abused in the USA, and people are locked up for minor drug offences better dealt with by community service etc. The situation here where men (usually) are up in court and when sentenced are declared to have 100 and over prior convictions is equally untenable here in Ireland. Social responsibility is ignored by all classes here in their behaviour. Some of those condemning the murder of Shane Geoghegan were casual cocaine users, putting money into the pockets of those who directed his killing (even if in error).
Hypocrisy and fecklessness are the bane of our country.

Abso-LUTE-ly spot on.

[Drick]

Garda report critical of MCD over Phoenix Park disturbances

Updated: 21:57, Thursday, 2 August 2012

A Garda review of the violence at the Swedish House Mafia concert at the Phoenix Park last month has severely criticised concert promoters MCD.

The report identifies serious shortcomings in how security for the event was organised.
It said that the Phoenix Park was not a suitable venue for electronic dance music concerts.
The review was sent to Minister for Justice Alan Shatter who this evening published a cover letter from the Garda Commissioner outlining the main conclusions and recommendations.
The full report cannot be published because it contains extensive operational details.

more - http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0802/mcd...k-trouble.html

Report here - http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0802/phoenix.pdf

[Drick]

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-n...e-3222346.html

Gardai blamed for concert trouble
Thursday September 06 2012


Concert promoters MCD have blamed gardai over trouble at the Phoenix Park gig
marred by violence and tragedy.

Nine people were stabbed and 30 arrested at a Swedish House Mafia gig in
July, sparking Justice Minister Alan Shatter to order a review. Tragedy also
struck when two men died of suspected drug overdoses after the day-long event on
July 7.

A Garda probe had accused MCD for not having appropriate security measures in
place and for picking the city centre venue for an "electric music" event.
However MCD has hit back and claimed gardai should have had a zero tolerance to
revellers taking alcohol and drugs in public areas from early morning prior to
the gig. Denis Desmond, managing director of MCD Productions, called for a
public inquiry.

"The high volume of incidents at the entrance gate search areas and the
number of breaches in the perimeter fence were in no small part due to the
failure of An Garda Siochana to enforce the law within the Phoenix Park and its
environs," the MCD report said.

"The wholesale availability of 'carry-out' alcohol from licensed premises in
the area, failure to control consumption of alcohol on public transport services
to the event, and the tolerance of consumption of alcohol and antisocial
behaviour in public places on the routes to and in the Phoenix Park by An Garda
Siochana had an overwhelming adverse affect on the sobriety of the audience
seeking to attend the event."

Mr Desmond criticised Mr Shatter for publishing a letter from Garda
Commissioner Martin Callinan about the event without any prior notice or
feedback - breaching an agreement between the parties. MCD denied claims in the
Garda report that officers had not been given enough access to the event control
room or CCTV facilities, or that concerns were raised beforehand.

In MCD's own 188 page critical review, it maintained Garda chiefs opted to
cut the number of officers on duty from 206 to 145, despite deciding it was of
higher risk than other gigs that week. And it accused the gardai of breaches in
their duty of care to patrons, staff or the public. "Indeed, the Gardai appeared
to have no adequate strategy in place to deal with individuals refused admission
to the venue and who were loitering around the vicinity outside the arena," the
report said.

MCD said anti-social behaviour was caused by 250 of 45,000 people at the
concert, adding that it had 511 security personnel on duty, exceeding the 360
required under the event.

"No number of security personnel (obviously within reason), could have
adequately dealt with events on the 7th July 2012 due to the diverse and
sporadic nature of the acts of anti-social behaviour when carried out by
individuals intent on causing trouble," the report said. "There was a serious
lack of respect and disregard for the Gardai and security alike by a certain
element of the audience which attitude appeared to have been contributed to by
the Gardai's relaxed policing approach adopted earlier in the day outside the
venue."

A Garda spokesman said the Garda Commissioner has not yet received an
official copy of MCD's review.

[Kevy-Wevz]

Could probably be put in one of the Oxegen threads but I feel this thread may be more apt given what's going to occur at Punchestown this year




Obviously not the official poster, but the line-up is accurate.

And I thought 2010 had a lot of scum. Couldn't pay me enough to go to this

[lactose intolerant]

Could probably be put in one of the Oxegen threads but I feel this thread may be more apt given what's going to occur at Punchestown this year




Obviously not the official poster, but the line-up is accurate.

And I thought 2010 had a lot of scum. Couldn't pay me enough to go to this

Delighted!!!

Cause I'm going to a different festival that weekend!! Also, the only one there I'd like to actually see would be Nicky Romero so no temptation for me in the lineup

[Drick]

it's a bit late to be announcing oxegen isnt it.

I bet all the waa's have booked into Electric Picnic etc

[lactose intolerant]

it's a bit late to be announcing oxegen isnt it.

I bet all the waa's have booked into Electric Picnic etc

Picnic lineup is out this Thursday I think!! And Oxegen is a month later than it used to be this year

[Bosco]

Hope they don't have a drinks sponsor, cos the people going to that won't be drinking

[lahinch_lass]

Hope they don't have a drinks sponsor, cos the people going to that won't be drinking

Looks like Heineken & Red bull are among the sponsors for Oxygen.

As for electric picnic the pricing has just been announced & they're offering discounted prices for past attendees.

[LeakyBoots]

Most Irish music festivals aren't a patch on their European counterparts, we just simply haven't the climate for outdoor festivals

EDIT: and we're bad drinkers.

[munstermog]

Knackers ville so in Punchestown for the August weekend, there is not a single act on that list i would be interested in . Hell I'm getting old. Festivals in Europe are so much better as LB says.

[B.A.]

Picnic lineup is out this Thursday I think!! And Oxegen is a month later than it used to be this year

Yeah, oxegen is on the same weekend as indiependence and castlepalooza this year.

[Kevy-Wevz]

Most Irish music festivals aren't a patch on their European counterparts, we just simply haven't the climate for outdoor festivals

EDIT: and we're bad drinkers.

Oxegen's of the past had great line-ups, well able to contend with the rest of Europe. Dunno what this pile of ****e is about though

[shanners]

Oxegen's of the past had great line-ups, well able to contend with the rest of Europe. Dunno what this pile of ****e is about though

Seems to be a blend of **** with ****e.

[lactose intolerant]

Oxegen's of the past had great line-ups, well able to contend with the rest of Europe. Dunno what this pile of ****e is about though

trying to tap into the Tomorrowland market I'd imagine

[Boxing Donkey]

I've spent a decent amount of time in clubs that open at 7 am (I'm not a night time worker) and and metal gigs.
electronic music has a wide range of fans and genres, but I've had more trouble from paranoid wankers at the whole spectrum of dance music gigs than at and metal/punk gig. metal/punk you bounce of a guy and he catches you and buys you a pint or just ignores you.dance music he either hugs you and gives you a kiss or glasses you, seems nothing in between. don't know if it's socio economic or just drugs.
these days, i only watch local bands where the only trouble i get into is if i tell someone they're **** only to find out its the bassists mom I'm talking to