Starting Line-Up 2012/2013

[Colliniho]

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Keatley could make a fine 12 too I think. One of McGahan's biggest faults in my mind last season was having no alternative to Earls/Mafi in the centre come the Ulster game. Earls could barely walk after 50 mins and Mafi was struggling to link with the outside backs. Keatley to 12 and Mafi to 13 would have been an option had he experimented with that in the Rabo. The fact he didn't is almost incompetent in my book. Keatley has all the atributes for a Mauger-type 12. And his goalkicking wouldn't be an issue.

A Keatley and ROG 10-12 channel though? We'd be run through...

It's the most obvious thing to say, but we got away with ROG defensively for well over a decade because we had 12's who could tackle outside him (Halstead, Hendo, Holland etc...) and we had Wally who could get between Stringer and ROG and cover his ass when someone attacked his inside shoulder (or just went straight over him while he attempted to tackle in the "sitting on the jacks" position).

We've no Wally anymore so it is critical that our 12 is a big hitter. You can argue that having Murray at 9 mitigates the loss of Wally to a degree, but we still need a 12 who can more than wash his face in defense.

[Sketchy]

A Keatley and ROG 10-12 channel though? We'd be run through...

It's the most obvious thing to say, but we got away with ROG defensively for well over a decade because we had 12's who could tackle outside him (Halstead, Hendo, Holland etc...) and we had Wally who could get between Stringer and ROG and cover his ass when someone attacked his inside shoulder (or just went straight over him while he attempted to tackle in the "sitting on the jacks" position).

We've no Wally anymore so it is critical that our 12 is a big hitter. You can argue that having Murray at 9 mitigates the loss of Wally to a degree, but we still need a 12 who can more than wash his face in defense.

I was talking about Keatley/JJ

Ah no, you might be right. That is the concern though with ROG. Do we have to sacrifice/worry too much to accommodate him in the team? His kicking strengths are without doubt unparalled, but this was most effective when we had the most dominant pack Europe has ever seen. Our gameplan/style is changing and could change quite drastically under Penney. Can ROG play the high tempo game like Deasy/Keatley?

It is a bit of a Catch 22. I don't want to write ROG off more than the next man, but will we be vunerable for having him on the field against the Top teams?

[jeepers]

Interesting that ROG was linked with the Brumbies !

But White did rule out signing Ireland flyhalf Ronan O'Gara, who had been linked with the Brumbies.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rugb...#ixzz20ut1XErn

[Sketchy]

Interesting that ROG was linked with the Brumbies !

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rugb...#ixzz20ut1XErn

Jesus. Anyone got any insider verification on that? As much as I think ROG's time as our no.1 might be up, I would hate to see him leave. The experience, knowledge, technique, mentality, he can pass on to Keatley, JJ, and Deasy is invaluable. He could still well be our best option at 10 anyway if not an unbelievable option off the bench. But god, he should be retiring to a packed house at Thomond; nowhere else.

[jeepers]

Jesus. Anyone got any insider verification on that? As much as I think ROG's time as our no.1 might be up, I would hate to see him leave. The experience, knowledge, technique, mentality, he can pass on to Keatley, JJ, and Deasy is invaluable. He could still well be our best option at 10 anyway if not an unbelievable option off the bench. But god, he should be retiring to a packed house at Thomond; nowhere else.

ROG is contracted until the end of this season (12-13) to both Ireland & Munster. Unless its some sort of a loan situation, I can't see him going anywhere, particularly as he must be in for a decent lump sum tax wise if he retires in Ireland.

Might just have been White saw him benching against NZ and thought he would be worth a shot like Brad Thorn situation.

[overthehillprop]

ROG is contracted until the end of this season (12-13) to both Ireland & Munster. Unless its some sort of a loan situation, I can't see him going anywhere, particularly as he must be in for a decent lump sum tax wise if he retires in Ireland.

Might just have been White saw him benching against NZ and thought he would be worth a shot like Brad Thorn situation.

Brumbies instead of Dolphins this time around?

[BOK]

Jesus. Anyone got any insider verification on that? As much as I think ROG's time as our no.1 might be up, I would hate to see him leave. The experience, knowledge, technique, mentality, he can pass on to Keatley, JJ, and Deasy is invaluable. He could still well be our best option at 10 anyway if not an unbelievable option off the bench. But god, he should be retiring to a packed house at Thomond; nowhere else.

Don't worry about it for a second. ROG would pack it all in before he'd play for anyone other than Munster. He's not going anywhere.

[jeepers]

Brumbies instead of Dolphins this time around?

Hardly - not a word coming from this side of the Hemisphere - all coming from Aus.

If ROG did organise a loan say for the 2nd half of the Super Rugby season, he could end up playing against the B+I Lions for the Brumbies!

[Balla Boy]

I was talking about Keatley/JJ

Ah no, you might be right. That is the concern though with ROG. Do we have to sacrifice/worry too much to accommodate him in the team? His kicking strengths are without doubt unparalled, but this was most effective when we had the most dominant pack Europe has ever seen. Our gameplan/style is changing and could change quite drastically under Penney. Can ROG play the high tempo game like Deasy/Keatley?

It is a bit of a Catch 22. I don't want to write ROG off more than the next man, but will we be vunerable for having him on the field against the Top teams?

Without wanting to talk any young players down, it's by no means a foregone conclusion that JJ or Keatley can play "the high tempo game" at the level required. And I think you're creating a false gap between the two game plans too, potentially. Pack dominance is just as important for both game plans - it's not the case that one style is better behind an average pack than the other, imo.


Next year is an important transition year in which we need to start seeing options coming through at 10, but at this point there is no real comparison to be made between ROG and our other options at 10. He is a proven world class talent at 10, a thousand test point scorer with a wealth of experience. Even as he ages and even with a dip in form, there's a big gap between that and two lads who've yet to prove that they can play HEC rugby.

Hopefully this year starts to close that a bit, but if ROG isn't up to it this year then it's going to be a long season.

[Sketchy]

Without wanting to talk any young players down, it's by no means a foregone conclusion that JJ or Keatley can play "the high tempo game" at the level required. And I think you're creating a false gap between the two game plans too, potentially. Pack dominance is just as important for both game plans - it's not the case that one style is better behind an average pack than the other, imo.


Next year is an important transition year in which we need to start seeing options coming through at 10, but at this point there is no real comparison to be made between ROG and our other options at 10. He is a proven world class talent at 10, a thousand test point scorer with a wealth of experience. Even as he ages and even with a dip in form, there's a big gap between that and two lads who've yet to prove that they can play HEC rugby.

Hopefully this year starts to close that a bit, but if ROG isn't up to it this year then it's going to be a long season.

Totally agree on JJ. I would never suggest that he would be a starter at 10 this year. I would be delighted to see him get a few Rabo nods. To expect any more would be folly.

My only issue with ROG is his tackling. But to me it is a big issue. You can't give up your gainline at the drop of a hat. All the top teams will send backrowers down the channel, make the gain, offload, and then we are on scramble straight away. As pointed out before, Wally, the great protector isn't there any longer. All the teams are copping on to this. But if ROG continues to be the best then he starts. Simple as.

But, on the other hand, Keatley is a fine tackler. A physical unit for a flyhalf. And I actually think he gets the outside backs going quicker than ROG. But we all know he has a tendency to leave points behind with the boot. I just have a feeling the gameplan Penney might choose to employ could suit Keatley better.

It's only a hunch though. As you said, I have no idea what form either will come into this season in. May they fight tooth and nail and may the best man win. All I want is what is best for the team.

[Sketchy]

Without wanting to talk any young players down, it's by no means a foregone conclusion that JJ or Keatley can play "the high tempo game" at the level required. And I think you're creating a false gap between the two game plans too, potentially. Pack dominance is just as important for both game plans - it's not the case that one style is better behind an average pack than the other, imo.


Next year is an important transition year in which we need to start seeing options coming through at 10, but at this point there is no real comparison to be made between ROG and our other options at 10. He is a proven world class talent at 10, a thousand test point scorer with a wealth of experience. Even as he ages and even with a dip in form, there's a big gap between that and two lads who've yet to prove that they can play HEC rugby.

Hopefully this year starts to close that a bit, but if ROG isn't up to it this year then it's going to be a long season.

Sorry, never dealt with your forward point.

Without doubt you need a strong pack to play the expansive game. Look at Leinster. They would never be able to play as they do without a powerful unit of a pack. What Munster did before was sheer pack dominance. It was a 10 man game. Beat the opposition into submission. Pound them into submission, and then have a flyhalf like ROG to capitalise on every scoring opportunity.

What the likes of Leinster and Toulouse do is front up and soften the opposition, then open up the defence who are left reeling.

Munster had the best pack Europe has ever seen. Just like England for the 2003 RWC. We don't have that anymore. The emphasis has to shift from a 10 man to a more rounded 15 man approach.