Starting Line-Up 2012/2013

[lahinch_lass]

What's wrong with Denis Hurley all of a sudden? Was very good at FB last year.

Denis hurley can NOT catch a ball reliably once his feet leave the ground .. he's a good player except for that one glaring weakness. And it's a ruddy bit gaping hole in his skillset for a full-back or even as a HEC winger.
He actually did gather the odd ball in the air last season, but it was a rare occurance, partly because he'd copped on enough not to jump most of the time. The other frustration I had with him was that for a guy that should be physically more imposing than any of our other backs (last season) he rarely made than physicality count, but again he did show some signs of improvement in that area.

IF hurley can master the art of catching a ball when jumping to gather it like Felix or Rob Kearney then great he should be considered more for FB. Shaun Payne was a master at it and dowling was pretty damn good at it too. It was one of the weaknesses of Barry Murphy's game too in the early part of the 05/06 season when he was being played on the wing watching him under a high ball was instant torment with not having a clue if he'd gather it or not.

[kevin10]

The Optilase Lazer Eye Surgery advert excites me. Dougie says he can now get rid of his glasses. He never wore his glassess for us or the All Blacks and look at his CV!! How good is he going to be now that he can see!! Either he`s a very good actor because he seems so genuiely pleased on the TV advert.

He`s probably going to annoy the lads on the team bus playing i -spy.

[Munsterboy]

Denis hurley can NOT catch a ball reliably once his feet leave the ground .. he's a good player except for that one glaring weakness. And it's a ruddy bit gaping hole in his skillset for a full-back or even as a HEC winger.
He actually did gather the odd ball in the air last season, but it was a rare occurance, partly because he'd copped on enough not to jump most of the time. The other frustration I had with him was that for a guy that should be physically more imposing than any of our other backs (last season) he rarely made than physicality count, but again he did show some signs of improvement in that area.

IF hurley can master the art of catching a ball when jumping to gather it like Felix or Rob Kearney then great he should be considered more for FB. Shaun Payne was a master at it and dowling was pretty damn good at it too. It was one of the weaknesses of Barry Murphy's game too in the early part of the 05/06 season when he was being played on the wing watching him under a high ball was instant torment with not having a clue if he'd gather it or not.

Did you actually watch him last season?

Firstly, he had no problems fielding high balls. Rock solid on and off the ground. He got the yips a couple of seasons back but no sign of that now. Judge him on his recent form at FB, not two years ago.

Secondly, his positioning and tackling was better than Felix's.

Thirdly, he frequently used his physicality to ride tackles and offload to set up tries. He actually created more scores than Felix last season.

Everybody, including me, was very excited about Felix coming to Munster but based on their performances last season, Hurley deserves the starting spot more imo. The former has been hampered by injury and simply hasn't lived up to the hype (yet).

[the_dazz]

Did you actually watch him last season?

Firstly, he had no problems fielding high balls. Rock solid on and off the ground. He got the yips a couple of seasons back but no sign of that now. Judge him on his recent form at FB, not two years ago.

Secondly, his positioning and tackling was better than Felix's.

Thirdly, he frequently used his physicality to ride tackles and offload to set up tries. He actually created more scores than Felix last season.

Everybody, including me, was very excited about Felix coming to Munster but based on their performances last season, Hurley deserves the starting spot more imo. The former has been hampered by injury and simply hasn't lived up to the hype (yet).

His biggest weakness is probably his lack of pace over the first 10m. His catching has improved ten-fold since that faithful night against Ulster 2 seasons ago. He was caught for pace a few times defensively (Gilroy in HC) but has been solid in defence and in attack developed a lovely off-loading game. I'd prefer the Jones that we saw glimpses of or else a bit more of Scanlon/O Dea, prefer for all the back 3 to have pace.

[Talking Sense]

Did you actually watch him last season?

Firstly, he had no problems fielding high balls. Rock solid on and off the ground. He got the yips a couple of seasons back but no sign of that now. Judge him on his recent form at FB, not two years ago.

Secondly, his positioning and tackling was better than Felix's.

Thirdly, he frequently used his physicality to ride tackles and offload to set up tries. He actually created more scores than Felix last season.

Everybody, including me, was very excited about Felix coming to Munster but based on their performances last season, Hurley deserves the starting spot more imo. The former has been hampered by injury and simply hasn't lived up to the hype (yet).

Fair points.

[busby]

A few variables yet. With Keith pushed out to the wing for the last test in NZ it creates confusion as to whether Ireland will make us play him at 13 or not. Also, Felix is a major variable. If Keith is available in the back 3 and Felix's form is

The backrow is a complete lottery, but i think CJ and POM have to be certainties. You could legitimately say anyone of Ronan, Coughlan, Butler, Dave O'C, Dougall or TOD could compete for the last spot. Honestly, i would be a disappointed if one of the younger players couldn't force their way past Coughlan and Ronan. I would actually keep a very close eye on Dougall.

If it had to gamble on one:

15 - Jones/Earls
14 - Dougie
13 - Laulala
12 - Downey
11 - Earls/Zebo
10 - Keatley/JJ
9 - Murray
8 - POM
7 - Dougall
6 - Stander
5 - Ryan
4 - POC
3 - Botha
2 - Sherry
1 - Wian

Typical Bench: Zebo, ROG, Stringer, Butler/Dave O'C, Donncha O'C, Varley, Kilcoyne, Cotter/Condon/Ryan

I think if we're starting from scratch, we need to make the first move at OH. Go with Keatley, and place the faith in him, but i wouldn't rule out JJ for a meteoric rise either. I just don't think you can get away with a player of ROG's weaknesses in the current game.

I think we have a very strong potential team for a set up that has been stripped piece by piece away, and hopefully a new attacking game will get the best out of what could be a sensational backline. Ryan had a fantastic tour down under, and is a real leader to compliment POC. We also have some brilliant experience off the bench. We'll do some damage.

[Colliniho]

Lads does anyone else feel more than a little underwhelmed at the thought of going into next years H-Cup with Downey and Laulala in the centres?

Laulala is a good player no doubt but he is 30 and didn't seem 100% committed to me in the second half of last season. You would wonder if his heart is really in northern hemisphere rugby anymore. Earls is still the most likely candidate to replace BOD as the Ireland 13 and with Dougie, Zebo, O'Dea, Murphy, Scanlon, Hurley and (hopefully) Jones we seem well covered in the back 3.

Having the option of a genuine 12 who can get over the gainline will be hugely important for our squad next year, but I'd love to see Dineen given a reasonable run at first centre at some stage.

[MrsMcGahan]

Lads does anyone else feel more than a little underwhelmed at the thought of going into next years H-Cup with Downey and Laulala in the centres?

Laulala is a good player no doubt but he is 30 and didn't seem 100% committed to me in the second half of last season. You would wonder if his heart is really in northern hemisphere rugby anymore. Earls is still the most likely candidate to replace BOD as the Ireland 13 and with Dougie, Zebo, O'Dea, Murphy, Scanlon, Hurley and (hopefully) Jones we seem well covered in the back 3.

Having the option of a genuine 12 who can get over the gainline will be hugely important for our squad next year, but I'd love to see Dineen given a reasonable run at first centre at some stage.

I'd put that down to a malaise in Cardiff/Welsh club rugby. Players want success and they raise their game if they see a big goal and vice versa (look at some of the Munster player efforts v the Ostriches when the playoff game was slipping away) If Penney gets Munster really firing we'll see the best of Laulala I've no doubt.

[Colliniho]

I'd put that down to a malaise in Cardiff/Welsh club rugby. Players want success and they raise their game if they see a big goal and vice versa (look at some of the Munster player efforts v the Ostriches when the playoff game was slipping away) If Penney gets Munster really firing we'll see the best of Laulala I've no doubt.

Let us hope so, he is still a quality player on his day. What he was doing in the Rabodirect Team of the season for last year is anybodys guess though.

[taz]

I'd like to see Condon get a run of gametime in the friendlies+ rabo games at the start of the season.

[overthehillprop]

Lads does anyone else feel more than a little underwhelmed at the thought of going into next years H-Cup with Downey and Laulala in the centres?

Laulala is a good player no doubt but he is 30 and didn't seem 100% committed to me in the second half of last season. You would wonder if his heart is really in northern hemisphere rugby anymore. Earls is still the most likely candidate to replace BOD as the Ireland 13 and with Dougie, Zebo, O'Dea, Murphy, Scanlon, Hurley and (hopefully) Jones we seem well covered in the back 3.

Having the option of a genuine 12 who can get over the gainline will be hugely important for our squad next year, but I'd love to see Dineen given a reasonable run at first centre at some stage.

I would hope that if Downey is our first choice 12 next season and we intend to keep our style of play intact as much as possible despite changes in the starting XV then Dineen would be a natural fit at 12 to replace Downey when he is rested or is not available.

[busby]

Lads does anyone else feel more than a little underwhelmed at the thought of going into next years H-Cup with Downey and Laulala in the centres?

Laulala is a good player no doubt but he is 30 and didn't seem 100% committed to me in the second half of last season. You would wonder if his heart is really in northern hemisphere rugby anymore. Earls is still the most likely candidate to replace BOD as the Ireland 13 and with Dougie, Zebo, O'Dea, Murphy, Scanlon, Hurley and (hopefully) Jones we seem well covered in the back 3.

Having the option of a genuine 12 who can get over the gainline will be hugely important for our squad next year, but I'd love to see Dineen given a reasonable run at first centre at some stage.

Laulala is a top player who was caught up in a joke of a set up in the Blues, anybody would lose complete heart in that hopeless situation. He's been very vocal about his move to Munster, and has played under Penny before.

Sorry to say, but Dineen looks like an AIL player to me. He's not physical enough to make his name as a line breaker at this level. Downey could provide a good structure to build the rest of the backline around.

We have options though, that's the good thing. If Laulala goes poorly, we can play Earls at 13. If Downey goes poorly, perhaps Laulala could make a fist of 12, or even JJ. Maybe Felix will put the injuries behind him and have burst into form, or O'Dea might drive on further again and make himself hard to ignore. You never know how certain players could respond to a totally new coaching set up. We have plenty of options to mould a very good backline out of.

[thepunter]

Let us hope so, he is still a quality player on his day. What he was doing in the Rabodirect Team of the season for last year is anybodys guess though.

pretty much demonstrates that they haven't a clue what they're on about.

lualua was in a cardiff side that has been going under for two years, so you'd have to hope that means he'll be better for Munster. i still don't really see the point of signing two thirty years olds though, when the reason for the current Munster slump was the age profile of all the old heads. They should have got a couple of decent mid 20 year olds to last the next ten years. Or at least an older lad that has done something for the past 4 years, and can really bring experience. What authority does LuaLua bring to the side that he can impress upon the youngsters? None really. You'd hope it all works out, but i wouldn't be confident.

[bazzyg]

Did you actually watch him last season?

Firstly, he had no problems fielding high balls. Rock solid on and off the ground. He got the yips a couple of seasons back but no sign of that now. Judge him on his recent form at FB, not two years ago.

Secondly, his positioning and tackling was better than Felix's.

Thirdly, he frequently used his physicality to ride tackles and offload to set up tries. He actually created more scores than Felix last season.

Everybody, including me, was very excited about Felix coming to Munster but based on their performances last season, Hurley deserves the starting spot more imo. The former has been hampered by injury and simply hasn't lived up to the hype (yet).

All of the above, the part of his game I liked best from FB was his talk, he was always talking to the players in front of him helping them get organised in defence.

[thepunter]

All of the above, the part of his game I liked best from FB was his talk, he was always talking to the players in front of him helping them get organised in defence.

I thought Hurley was brilliant last year and better than Jones. he has an uncanny ability to give a hand off and keep going through a tackle. Better player than Jones, and deserves more starts.

[rathbaner]

why does no on mention Danny Barnes? is he out of the squad?

[MrsMcGahan]

Are you serious?
Nobody told you?

[Colliniho]

why does no on mention Danny Barnes? is he out of the squad?

Needs to nail down a position and work hard at it. Shifting from place to place in the backline isn't doing him any good. Personally I think 13 is his best position. Loads of work to be done though. It's amazing that it's just over a season since he scored 2 tries against the Ospreys and was picked to start against O'Driscoll in the Magners final. Last season really didn't go well for him. If he is struggling to make Rabo squads this year and is looking to the B&I cup for game time then he could turn into the next Tom Gleeson very quickly.

[scotscor]

I think Denis Hurley can be a very good full back or a good winger, but he cannot be both. Whenever he is moved from one position to the other he seems to lose his confidence and his form quickly. I'd like to see him as our starting fb for next season and if Felix returns that it is up to Felix to prove that he is playing better than Denis to get the jersey back. This season Hurley was dropped / moved like a hot potato as soon as Jones was fit and that was a mistake.

I was disappointed with the signings of both casey and Downey. I'd have preferred Munster to play the likes of Smith, Dineen, Barnes and Earls in the centre than bring in older short term fixes. Barnes started last season very well but was completely discarded after a couple of poor games.

With OD Zebo, Dougie we have speed and class on the wings so should be okay there, and with JJ in contention for the 10 jersey we could finally be looking at decent young backline for the first time in a very long time.

Thinking more about this would like to see the following at some stage:
Od Jones Zebo
Dineen Earls
Murray JJ
POM Stander DOC2
DRyan Foley
Kilcoyne Sherry Condon

At a guess the oldest (and only ones 24 or more) in that side would be Ryan, Condon, Earls and Jones

[Munsterboy]

I'm happy to see Downey coming in. He's not young but he'll do a job for a couple of years and that's what we need while JJ and/or Dineen develop. JJ may end up at 10 but the latter has quite a bit of potential imo. Barnes may also move in.

Laulala is a good player but I would probably prefer to see Earls starting at 13 for the HEC, regardless of whether he's on the wing for Ireland. No reason he can't play a bit in both positions for province and country though. He's good enough and has already shown he can handle it.

Overall there are lots of potential first team combinations that are stronger than what we were able to field last season. Credit where it's due, McGahan and co. have not left us in bad shape squad-wise.

TH is still a ticking time-bomb though. An serious injury to BJ and we can kiss the season goodbye.

[Bitter As A Lemon]

I think Denis Hurley can be a very good full back or a good winger, but he cannot be both. Whenever he is moved from one position to the other he seems to lose his confidence and his form quickly. I'd like to see him as our starting fb for next season and if Felix returns that it is up to Felix to prove that he is playing better than Denis to get the jersey back. This season Hurley was dropped / moved like a hot potato as soon as Jones was fit and that was a mistake.

I was disappointed with the signings of both casey and Downey. I'd have preferred Munster to play the likes of Smith, Dineen, Barnes and Earls in the centre than bring in older short term fixes. Barnes started last season very well but was completely discarded after a couple of poor games.

With OD Zebo, Dougie we have speed and class on the wings so should be okay there, and with JJ in contention for the 10 jersey we could finally be looking at decent young backline for the first time in a very long time.

Thinking more about this would like to see the following at some stage:
Od Jones Zebo
Dineen Earls
Murray JJ
POM Stander DOC2
DRyan Foley
Kilcoyne Sherry Condon

At a guess the oldest (and only ones 24 or more) in that side would be Ryan, Condon, Earls and Jones

Still beating that drum I see.
Personally I think Downey and Lualala will disapoint you and prove you totally wrong. One has the brute force to get us over the gainline, and the other has the guile to put one of our back three away. I think they will prove to be a very very good combination for us.
As much as I ahte to say it, I think Dineen's time is done, and it is time to give Smith or get Barnes back into the swing of things. Dineen doesn't impress me at all.
But I guess, time will tell...

[Munsterboy]

As much as I ahte to say it, I think Dineen's time is done, and it is time to give Smith or get Barnes back into the swing of things. Dineen doesn't impress me at all.
But I guess, time will tell...

Bit harsh. He hardly got a chance - mostly due to injury - but when he was given a couple of games last season he looked fairly handy. It was almost funny how keen he was to get his hands on the ball but when he did he did well imo.

Anyway, I think he deserves a few more chances in the coming season.

[scotscor]

Oddly enough when Downey was at Connacht I was roaring for us to sign him, and thought he did ok for us for the few games he was here. But we left him go.
He is thirty now and is not likely to improve more as a player. But then given a choice I was always more of a fan of dutchy holland type player over a hendo. And James Downey is no Hendo or Halstead. He is a poorer version of the bosh.

[JoeyFantastic]

As much as I ahte to say it, I think Dineen's time is done, and it is time to give Smith or get Barnes back into the swing of things. Dineen doesn't impress me at all.

Was any back really able to impress last season though? How much of that was down to Holland will be seen shortly I guess.

[ed7890]

I saw on the player profile, Barry O'Mahony is supposed to only weigh 87kg. That can't be right can it? I know the guy isn't the biggest player, but that weight seems way too low.

[Aiden7]

I saw on the player profile, Barry O'Mahony is supposed to only weigh 87kg. That can't be right can it? I know the guy isn't the biggest player, but that weight seems way too low.

That does seem to be too low, but on Sean Dougall profile it says that he is a Hooker, and not a openside flanker, so there is the possiblity they have BOM'S weight wrong

[Dowlinz]

You would wonder if his heart is really in northern hemisphere rugby anymore.

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read on this forum.

[John Cooper Clarke]

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read on this forum.

You wrote most of the others presumably?

[Bromance]

That does seem to be too low, but on Sean Dougall profile it says that he is a Hooker, and not a openside flanker, so there is the possiblity they have BOM'S weight wrong

Barry is very light, wouldn't have said 87 but wouldn't have said he was over 92kg mark either!!

[Aiden7]

Barry is very light, wouldn't have said 87 but wouldn't have said he was over 92kg mark either!!

Sounds like BOM will have to put about 14 - 20 pounds on to be around the 15 stone mark, which would be a gd weight for a openside