I agree with all that. Ross bod darcy and poc shouldnt have to start every game.Originally Posted by The Outlaw
Its going to be a tough time to replace a centre partnership that has been around for so long.
But kidney won't change overnight .
I agree with all that. Ross bod darcy and poc shouldnt have to start every game.
Its going to be a tough time to replace a centre partnership that has been around for so long.
But kidney won't change overnight .
When their numbers dwindled from 50 to 8, the other dwarves began to suspect Hungry
We have players capable of beating Australia in the SH, nearly beating the ABs on their home turf, of winning 4 HEC titles in 5 years and then we get absolutely destroyed 60-0 by a team we nearly beat the prior week.
Ireland need another coaching team capable of getting the side to perform week in and week out. I thought we had left those drubbings in the distant past and that we would never ever see an Irish side humiliated in such a fashion. Kidney should go for that reason alone, never mind the increasingly poor and inconsistent performances he now extracts from players that are capable of reaching higher; they did so only the previous week.
Oh, FFS.
Look at the results of the NH teams in the recent tests. Have a good long look at them. That's where HEC-standard racks up as a preparation for test rugby against S15: nowhere. Go look for that Bulls-Cheetahs game last Saturday, watch it, and stop deluding yourself the HEC means anything in terms of test rugby. It doesn't.
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
Right, and while you were watching those games, did any other NH team perform so dismally or show a marked deterioration in their performance from one week to the next, never mind get thrashed 60-0?
Do you think Argentina will get beaten 60-0 in NZ, or anywhere else for that matter in the RC?
Under Kidney, we had the biggest thrashing in our history by a team we almost beat the previous week. The players showed what the were capable of in that performance in nearly beating the ABs.
The previous week shows you what can happen when we have the wonderful confluence of our players playing above themselves, their players playing like mongs, weather which was a great leveller in our favour and a ref we should have no excuses for not knowing inside out dealt to us. And we still didn't win.
The following week saw everything fall in place for them and feck all go our way.
We're neither as good nor as bad as the two scorelines suggest.
Ohh God so basically we`re in the worst place of all, Purgatory!
(I agree btw, not as good or consistent as the big boys but at least we`re better than Scotland and Italy!)
Last edited by BOK; 2nd-July-2012 at 19:43.
"We've got to be really careful we get our backyard right before we start looking over the fence."
Rob Penney - Rugby coach and Philosopher
If I'm honest BOK, the only performances of late which have gotten on my wick have involved us & Wales. Because they have carved out a consistent recent run against us and yet I think we're reasonably well-matched in terms of players.
I'd be critical of Deccie et al and the way they've been at the helm when we have been fairly conclusively out thought and out fought/outplayed by the Taffs.
But us on a 3 game tour to hell of NZ - nah; I'm not going to get tired & emotional over that particular episode.
They got beaten 49-10 at home in the second test when they deliberately played their reserves.
And if that's what happens them at home in the second week against France, they will get reamed when the inevitable injuries kick in.
But, hey, well done on looking through those results and picking out the perfect one to blow yourself out of the water. Would you like to try to tell us your understanding of "once-off" v. "level "...?
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
The only way we will ever beat NZ is if we play to the absolute best of our ability and NZ have an incredibly woeful game. Cant really see it in my life time. NZ 0 to 60 in 80 min
You quoted me but didn't answer anything I said - has it occurred to you that maybe being this inconsistent is their true ability (they've been doing it for a decade now) and not the fault of any coaches. (I think Kidney's time has now run but I think people are mistaking mental weakness in the players and lack of core skills for some kind coaching issue at Ireland level. These are all issues that should be addressed before national team).
\"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"
We were extremely consistent under EOS and a few stupid mistakes like missing a simple restart against France cost us a GS......under DK we can raise our game once a year seemingly but have absolutley no consistency..
There is no huge void in class, physicality or experience between us and the likes of France, England and Wales. It just comes down to execution and the final hurdle, the last inch. At International level it`s only the small things that make a big difference. People refer to the restart against France. The fact is we stuffed that up and other chances we`ve had down the years more often than not when the likes of France etc... have taken their chances more often than not. We seem to make our own bad luck and alot of that is definitely down to a mental issue we have at International level. We are our own worst enemies at times. There just is`nt the same belief with the green jersey on as there is with the red or blue and it`s so deep rooted at this stage that it will be very hard to overcome. For once we got a bit of luck in 09 when Jones missed what would normally have been a kick well within his range. BUT would France, England or Wales have put themselves in that position in the first place by giving away that penalty? Maybe our deep rooted mental problems have rubbed off on the referees to the point were they expect us to mess up and unconsciously fall into the groove of penalizing us? Then again maybe not.
The point is we can say ``only for that restart against France we would have won a grand slam`` for the rest of our lives but it aint gonna change the fact that we did`nt take that chance or any other`s that have presented themselves down the years including the game against NZ. We can count ourselves lucky that Wales for a change did`nt take their chance in 09 and we won a GS as a result. I wonder though if there was a Grand Slam on the line for Wales that day would Jones still have missed that kick?
"We've got to be really careful we get our backyard right before we start looking over the fence."
Rob Penney - Rugby coach and Philosopher
Not true, we had hammerings under eos as well. Though he did seem to be far far luckier with injuries than Deccie.
...in what way will you feel more Irish if you force me to give up my feeling of being British? - David Ervine
We should have won the second test, and were extremely unlucky to lose.
...in what way will you feel more Irish if you force me to give up my feeling of being British? - David Ervine
I agree with you there but as long as they are fit they will start every bloody game, We flew Paddy Wallace all the way to NZ after a week on the piss for a massive game, I am no fan of Paddy Wallace but if I had seen that incoming calling I would have rejected it .....Injuries seem to be only way to force rotation in the squad, it really is getting old now, someone with a pair of balls 3years should have said right lads we have our grand slam now lets look to the future, lets start blooding the young ones....we should be calling up players form that U-20s squad to every Ireland camp for the forseeable future and seeing just how talented they are and how they slot into the squad...look at SA they are not afraid of sticking a 20year lock into the staring squad....
Sometimes I really wonder who makes the decisions re the selections of the team/squad??? is it all Deccie, is there a lot of outside influence from the powers that be ?? .....
\"As she lay there dozing next to me, one voice inside my head kept saying, \'Relax, you\'re not the first doctor to sleep with one of his patients\', but the another kept reminding me, \' you are a veterinarian!\'\"
This has been pointed out you more than once , they are not the same players . BOD ,Heaslip & Kearney the only three players from the GS side who started the 1st Test .
By the time of the 6N Downey will be Ireland 12. He will be smash everyone between now as he did last season. His physical presence enables any 13 to have more time and space. We were crying out for him in the midfield in the year gone. As typical with both EOS and DK you dont exist unless you play in Ireland. When DK is forced to pick Downey at 12 this year when he is doing the same for Munster as he did for Northampton last year I hope he has to explain his previous absence. I am sure DK is the most decent of men but I have got tired of the overly humble post match interviews, all the "we lost today, and we will keep our feet on the ground as we never get too excited when we win" stuff. Players careers are short in sport,each year is a precious opportunity to achieve, in my opinion Kidney should go now so as not to waste another 18 months of potential progress. I reckon the great white hope for the Ireland 10 shirt is our own JJ. He will get his chance this autumn and winter with Munster and he seems to be of h talent aligned with supreme confidence he will shine in the Rabo and the H CUP. If he does will DK the cautious maths teacher pick him?? My money would be on another call for Paddy Wallace.
Is that the Bulls Cheetahs game that was a complete rout until the Cheetahs decided to play rugby in the last 20 mins? I'm assuming you're saying that that is better test rugby preparation that HEC rugby?
The game was long past them when the Bulls had their bonus point. You're citing a game as an example of quality, that you can't have possibly watched. It was a joke. Basically, the home side got to do what they wanted for 60 minutes, while the other side did nothing, and then the roles were reversed for the last 20. It was 26-0 at half time. Come now sir, Ye can't be just looking at scores and then extrapolating an opinion on Heineken Cup and it's merits based on a score you pulled out of your ether!
IS this an example of the popular-grass-is-greener-superrugby- adulation- that- has- no- basis- in- fact mentality Kent?
Quite possibly Arnie.
I think playing games like the ones Munster have down the years, and the ones Leinster have (ie, Clermont away in the semifinal) are fantastic preparation for test rugby. The only question is, which kind of test rugby; this New Zealand tour was always going to be a tough one a the end of a mega marathon season as marathon seasons go. Put those same lads up against New Zealand in a World cup Quarter or Semi, and they don't lose by more than 12.
Either way, Kidney has to go. Hes gone after the 6 nations, so this rubbish of keeping him on for his contract is pathetic. Someone in the IRFU needs to grow some balls and make a decision thats best for Irish rugby and the fans that fund it, not their bank balances. It stinks of john Delaney-ism to be honest.
Last edited by thepunter; 3rd-July-2012 at 16:54. Reason: de spelling
Wizened Rugby-Betting tin-foil-hat bearers
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We were gloriously inconsistent under EOS as well - 2 good games, 2 decent games, another loss (our 6N best performances) then never translate that form into the rest of the year or WC. It was under EOS we failed to put away the likes of Namibia and Georgia the way a top side would have done. It was under EOS we got spanked off the park by NZ at home. It was under EOS we had a similar summer tour where we came very close one week and lost badly the next.
I keep saying this, people need to stop hero worshipping the players and blaming the coaches. We've had 3 coaches in the last 13 years and each has had the same problem - ability to put together a run of good performances. Under EOS we started winning dirty but we still didn't put together a string of good performances. The reality is when it comes to it we are not good enough to put together a string of performances at the top level. Forget cheering on the "great" wins over poor English sides. We failed far more often than not against France, NZ, SA and Australia. That's because we're not good enough. Putting in the odd good performance then failing several times against them isn't a sign the coach isn't doing his job. It's a sign that our best is the odd good performance and nothing more than that.
Part of the problem is that people need to stop viewing the players as though their world is totally different to the working world of anyone else. If most of us put in the performance of the core requirements of our jobs that the players put in regularly we'd get downgraded in our appraisals for it. But if you dare suggest on sites like this that the players are at fault you get screamed at. Reality is in any standard working environment a lot of the players would have had it noted that they're not good enough at some of the core elements of their job profile and that they don't perform under pressure. In the workplace a senior is expected to take on responsibility, provide leadership, mentor juniors, take the lead in the work. You get paid extra for that. How many of our senior players consistently do that? In reality in most workplaces a lot of seniors from our rugby squads would have been on development programmes for not being up to the job.
That is the reality of Ireland in international rugby. Sometimes we punch above our weight but the majority of the time at the highest level, under the most pressure, we don't.
\"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"
Shoulda , woulda , coulda.... sound familiar?
Irish Rugby's epitagh.
Connacht Rugby
"Live to win. Born to lose"
We could have won the second test; we should have drawn it and we were a tad unlucky to lose it.
Agree with all of that. There's another factor too. Depth. We have never had it and we don't now.
We can rarely maintain the strength of our team through multiple successive matches. Even when we don't have to make changes, lads like BOD, POC and SOB play through injury because even at 80% they're better than the alternative.
Very true but I think that's also one area where the coaches should take some blame, they'd rather rush through players like BOD than take the hit. We've gone from a country that changes teams every other match to one that wouldn't change teams if the incumbents were 6 feet under. But generally yes, we don't have the depth, we certainly don't the skills in depth - **** it we don't have the skills full stop - to cover for losing guys like Ferris for best part of 2 years.
\"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"
unlucky not to draw more like it
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