What have we learnt on tour???

[Aussiedub]

We have learnt when we have our first choice front row we have a decent scrum and Declan Fitzpatrick might be an option to cover Ross and that Healy is potentially the best No1 in the world..
D Ryan is our 2nd best 2nd row and Tuohy the 3rd best
SOB is a world class 7 in the making and Heaslip is our best 8.
Murray at his best is top class but needs to be quicker moving the ball when we are under pressure.
Sexton defensively very sound and a good goal kicker.
Darcy our best 12 defensively and BOD the same at 13
McFadden/Trimble not up to it on the wing at international level - Zebo not given enough chances and Earls messed around....
Kearney our best fullback....

So after this tour the best Irish team is - Healy, Best, Ross, Ryan, POC, Ferris, SOB, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Earls, Darcy, BOD, Bowe, Kearney - Court, Cronin, Fitzpatrick, Touhy, TBC, Reddan, ROG, Trimble/McFadden....

In other words we've learnt f*ck all, our gameplan is non-existant, our skill level is poor as a group and our physicality is also very poor....

[Waterboy]

We have learnt when we have our first choice front row we have a decent scrum and Declan Fitzpatrick might be an option to cover Ross and that Healy is potentially the best No1 in the world..
D Ryan is our 2nd best 2nd row and Tuohy the 3rd best
SOB is a world class 7 in the making and Heaslip is our best 8.
Murray at his best is top class but needs to be quicker moving the ball when we are under pressure.
Sexton defensively very sound and a good goal kicker.
Darcy our best 12 defensively and BOD the same at 13
McFadden/Trimble not up to it on the wing at international level - Zebo not given enough chances and Earls messed around....
Kearney our best fullback....

So after this tour the best Irish team is - Healy, Best, Ross, Ryan, POC, Ferris, SOB, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Earls, Darcy, BOD, Bowe, Kearney - Court, Cronin, Fitzpatrick, Touhy, TBC, Reddan, ROG, Trimble/McFadden....

In other words we've learnt f*ck all, our gameplan is non-existant, our skill level is poor as a group and our physicality is also very poor....

Excellent summary i'd agree with that

[tickettout]

It's not often AD is spot on, but he is today.

The coaching team need to be cleared out.

SOB was excellent at 7. A one man band in the back row today.

Ryan was excellent on this tour.

[sparks]

Heaslip - best 8?? What, when he is playing hide and seek?

And Darcy at 12? He is a donkey and needs to be put out to stud!

[Dowlinz]

Murray, D'arcy and SOB had all been questioned in their positions prior to this tour but did really well and I think brushed aside competition.
We have a legitimate alternative to DOC for a TH lock, even if Tuohy wasn't great he was certainly solid.
We have an "ok"ish TH prop alternative.
McFadden and Trimble struggle at this level.

Questions ahead of the AI's

- Can we afford two LH locks?
- Should time be called on Trimble as a starter?
- McLaughlin or POM as benching backrow?
- Where exactly is Keith Earls supposed to play? In his last 4 games he's played in 4 different positions (13, 15, 12, 11)

The team I'd view as our best side at this moment:

1 Healy
2 Best
3 Ross
4 POC
5 Tuohy
6 Ferris
7 SOB
8 Heaslip
9 Murray
10 Sexton
11 Earls
12 D'arcy
13 BOD
14 Bowe
15 Kearney

Bench: Court, D.Ryan, McLaughlin, Reddan, ROG, McFadden, Trimble

[bazzyg]

The problem with your analysis is - Heaslip and Darcy and probably BOD are the best Defensive players in their positions, to be competitive in Intl rugby, defence alone will not do, more in attack from these 3 positions are needed, in defence of the new Heaslip donkey role, he probably frees up SOB and the other back row to carry more.

Healy, Best, Ryan and Fitz were the plusses.

[Aussiedub]

The problem with your analysis is - Heaslip and Darcy and probably BOD are the best Defensive players in their positions, to be competitive in Intl rugby, defence alone will not do, more in attack from these 3 positions are needed, in defence of the new Heaslip donkey role, he probably frees up SOB and the other back row to carry more.

Healy, Best, Ryan and Fitz were the plusses.

But if your defence isn't right you get thrashed and puts everything else under pressure...

[Thomond78]

The problem with your analysis is - Heaslip and Darcy and probably BOD are the best Defensive players in their positions, to be competitive in Intl rugby, defence alone will not do, more in attack from these 3 positions are needed, in defence of the new Heaslip donkey role, he probably frees up SOB and the other back row to carry more.

Healy, Best, Ryan and Fitz were the plusses.

Not today, he wasn't. You cannot shoot and miss. You most definitely cannot do so repeatedly.

[Valencia]

What have we learned?

Don't play 3 tests ever again touring New Zealand

[outside inside]

What have we learned?

Don't play 3 tests ever again touring New Zealand

This is not decided by the IRFU it is decided by the IRB . Three Tests are here to stay , which means that you need significantly more depth to your squad . At least 20 % of your players will be out injured at any one time so we need 3 players for every position . There has to be a change in the development of test players with more players used during AI & 6 n'S .

[brightspark]

that BOD is past it at test level and talks the talk but can't walk the walk. thanks for the memories Brian
that ROG isn't the future or the present. thanks for the memories Ronan
that Earls looks ordinary at this level
that sexton is really a centre and can't turn a game,
that wallace served us better in the algarve
that POM is off the pace at test level.
that murray can play.
that Darcy is past it.
that kearney is the best in europe.
that the best in europe means diddley squat to NZ.
that sextons loop around only fools teams like arioni.
that ross can scrummage
that Ross offers nothing else
that Best is a consistently good hooker
that healy is best LH in world.
that kidney's time has come and gone. thanks for the GS Declan.
that SOB dominated McCaw in one test.
that McCaw put him back in his box in the other two.
that owens is a good ref too fond of twitter
that poite is a poor international ref.
that poite is a poor ref fullstop
that sky isn't worth the money
that Sean Fitzpatrick is a c**t.
that my kids think i watch too much rugby.
that there is no point arguing with the telly at 0830 on a sat morning.
that season is over.

[Dowlinz]

that BOD is past it at test level and talks the talk but can't walk the walk. thanks for the memories Brian
that ROG isn't the future or the present. thanks for the memories Ronan
that Earls looks ordinary at this level
that sexton is really a centre and can't turn a game,
that wallace served us better in the algarve
that POM is off the pace at test level.
that murray can play.
that Darcy is past it.
that kearney is the best in europe.
that the best in europe means diddley squat to NZ.
that sextons loop around only fools teams like arioni.
that ross can scrummage
that Ross offers nothing else
that Best is a consistently good hooker
that healy is best LH in world.
that kidney's time has come and gone. thanks for the GS Declan.
that SOB dominated McCaw in one test.
that McCaw put him back in his box in the other two.
that owens is a good ref too fond of twitter
that poite is a poor international ref.
that poite is a poor ref fullstop
that sky isn't worth the money
that Sean Fitzpatrick is a c**t.
that my kids think i watch too much rugby.
that there is no point arguing with the telly at 0830 on a sat morning.
that season is over.

D'arcy played 1 game and was magnificent in it, the fact that you'd criticise him purely on this tour shows you'd do so regardless.

[Valencia]

that BOD is past it at test level and talks the talk but can't walk the walk. thanks for the memories Brian
that ROG isn't the future or the present. thanks for the memories Ronan
that Earls looks ordinary at this level
that sexton is really a centre and can't turn a game,
that wallace served us better in the algarve
that POM is off the pace at test level.
that murray can play.
that Darcy is past it.
that kearney is the best in europe.
that the best in europe means diddley squat to NZ.
that sextons loop around only fools teams like arioni.
that ross can scrummage
that Ross offers nothing else
that Best is a consistently good hooker
that healy is best LH in world.
that kidney's time has come and gone. thanks for the GS Declan.
that SOB dominated McCaw in one test.
that McCaw put him back in his box in the other two.
that owens is a good ref too fond of twitter
that poite is a poor international ref.
that poite is a poor ref fullstop
that sky isn't worth the money
that Sean Fitzpatrick is a c**t.
that my kids think i watch too much rugby.
that there is no point arguing with the telly at 0830 on a sat morning.
that season is over.

Wouldn't argue with that, especially highlighted

[brightspark]

that dowlinz likes darcy

[Liam2me]

For me, the main thing we learned from this summer (not just the tour) is that we need JJ and Jackson as 1st choice 10 at their provinces and pushing for the national senior side. Sexton is only a stopgap at 10 between ROG and JJ/Jackson.

Fitz needs developing quickly as Ross is non-existent in the loose (great in the scrum mind)

Ryan is easily international standard

POM needs more time to show what he can do, difficult for him to make an impact against NZ

Heaslip can play when he wants to, but one game every 4 years is not good enough

SOB is an animal, can't wait to see him against Warburton

Ferris was massively missed.

Murray with the right instruction can be top class.

Sexton is a 12, and is a far better 12 then D'arcy who like Heaslip, can play the odd good game every few years

BOD's star is fading at this level, hopefully he doesn't draw things out and retire with people remembering him for his current form rather than his previous best

Earls is a 13 but was messed around.

Zebo needs to be given more time to show what he can do, otherwise we have Bowe and that's it at this level on the wing.

Kearney has ups and downs, would like Felix there to keep him honest

Team I would like to see developed for 2015 on what we know now, although probably won't be

Healy, Best, Fitz; Ryan, POC (will he still be around in 2015?)/Touhy; Ferris, SOB, POM; Murray, JJ; Zebo, Sexton, Earls, Bowe, Kearney

????, Cronin, Touhy/Henderson, Heaslip, Marmion/Redden, Jackson, Felix

[Dowlinz]

that dowlinz likes darcy

I like winning and playing our best players in their best positions is an essential part to doing that. Criticising anyone after playing one game and playing it very well is just plain dumb.

[brightspark]

so, you like darcy ?

[ListryMurphy]

What have we learned?

Don't play 3 tests ever again touring New Zealand

Or don't play the AB's again for that matter! lol

[AdolphusGrigson]

That Kindey was right about D'arcy - and that people like me who criticised him for continously picking him - now realise he was right after having endured today's horror show.

[Old Dog]

that BOD is past it at test level and talks the talk but can't walk the walk. thanks for the memories Brian YEP
that ROG isn't the future or the present. thanks for the memories Ronan YEP
that Earls looks ordinary at this level YEP - he shouldn't bother wearing yellow boots until he can fill them
that sexton is really a centre and can't turn a game, YEP - that HEC final turnaround V Saints was a complete fluke
that wallace served us better in the algarve - Don't blame the donkey, blame the man who harnessed him to the cart
that POM is off the pace at test level. YEP - but at least he was too busy to act the langer
that murray can play. YEP - very impressive
that Darcy is past it. YEP - but he's still the best option
that kearney is the best in europe and the best in europe means diddley squat to NZ. YEP
that sextons loop around only fools teams like Munster and arioni. YEP
that ross can scrummage but offers nothing else YEP
that Best is a consistently good hooker YEP
that healy is best LH in world. ARGUABLY
that kidney's time has come and gone. thanks for the GS Declan. YEP
that SOB dominated McCaw in one test but McCaw put him back in his box in the other two. YEP
that owens is a good ref too fond of twitter NOPE - he's a homer
that poite is a poor international ref NOPE
that poite is a poor ref fullstop NOPE
that sky isn't worth the money Only if you use it for watching rugby union exclusively
that Sean Fitzpatrick is a c**t. NOPE - you're probably confusing him with Peter Clohessy
that my kids think i watch too much rugby. NOPE - there is no such thing as too much rugby
that there is no point arguing with the telly at 0830 on a sat morning. YEP
that season is over. Only in the NH

That the ABs, even without Carter and Read are a pretty good team

That Irish international rugby is in an even worse state than soccer.

That there are more young Irish people in New Zealand than there are in Ireland - thanks to Bertie and Biffo.

[mtcmolloy]

that dowlinz likes darcy

harsh. d'arcy contributed a lot to a good team performance last week.
Be fair.

I think what we learned more than anything is that
we have some kind of weird coaching set up that sometimes
sends a team out to play, and sometimes sends a team out to
get man f*****d.

[mtcmolloy]

The problem with your analysis is - Heaslip and Darcy and probably BOD are the best Defensive players in their positions, to be competitive in Intl rugby, defence alone will not do, more in attack from these 3 positions are needed, in defence of the new Heaslip donkey role, he probably frees up SOB and the other back row to carry more.

Healy, Best, Ryan and Fitz were the plusses.

While I agree that defence alone will not cut it... it pretty much does cut
it for the ireland team, unless we are in the SH.
Aggressive defence kept us in the game last week.
What we can take for granted is a good scrum and lineout,
and a goalkicker.
Those things alone will often win games for you, if not against
a complacent NZ team.

[SkullinPints]

That overall our physical conditioning and pace is nowhere near AB standard.....
That our skill levels are nowhere near AB standard ...
That our ability to read the game and react accordingly/instinctively is nowhere near AB standard ....

[Thomond78]

That we now need to have a very serious club v. country debate.

We have catastrophic weaknesses in several key positions. At the provincial level, we have NIQs filling those slots. It's good for the provinces, bad for Ireland. For example, we now know Dan Fitzpatrick may be that most precious of jewels, a second test-level TH. Ireland needs him starting regularly: but Ulster need John Afoa playing. So, which comes first? Are we willing to take the hit at the level that loses out? Let's make the choice open, and make it an honest debate, because it's one we need to have.

[Aussiedub]

That we now need to have a very serious club v. country debate.

We have catastrophic weaknesses in several key positions. At the provincial level, we have NIQs filling those slots. It's good for the provinces, bad for Ireland. For example, we now know Dan Fitzpatrick may be that most precious of jewels, a second test-level TH. Ireland needs him starting regularly: but Ulster need John Afoa playing. So, which comes first? Are we willing to take the hit at the level that loses out? Let's make the choice open, and make it an honest debate, because it's one we need to have.

Can't see you as a Munster fan happy with that thought.....

[Thomond78]

Can't see you as a Munster fan happy with that thought.....

Nacewa. Thorn. Would you like the number of a glazier to repair that damage, or will we actually drop the inter-pro squabbling briefly?

Because that that was the reaction when the pproblem is raised is pretty indicative of the depth of the problem.

[Boo-boo]

We learned from today that some days it is better to stay in bed!

[Cowboy]

That we now need to have a very serious club v. country debate.

We have catastrophic weaknesses in several key positions. At the provincial level, we have NIQs filling those slots. It's good for the provinces, bad for Ireland. For example, we now know Dan Fitzpatrick may be that most precious of jewels, a second test-level TH. Ireland needs him starting regularly: but Ulster need John Afoa playing. So, which comes first? Are we willing to take the hit at the level that loses out? Let's make the choice open, and make it an honest debate, because it's one we need to have.

Bothas contract finishes in no time. I'd wager if Fitz has a good agent he could be on astrobucks at any province before too long

[Aussiedub]

Nacewa. Thorn. Would you like the number of a glazier to repair that damage, or will we actually drop the inter-pro squabbling briefly?

Because that that was the reaction when the pproblem is raised is pretty indicative of the depth of the problem.

Well you tend to put Munster before everything so I doubted you would be happy....

I'm happy that this season it looks like the only NIQ starting for Leinster is Nacewa and the only other in the 22 is HVDM and if we do get another NIQ it should be a 2nd row where Ireland is fairly strong

[mtcmolloy]

But if your defence isn't right you get thrashed and puts everything else under pressure...

i think this is an understated fact.

I often think of the southafricans as basing their game on a tough defence.
All of our memorable 'big' wins have been won with nasty, nasty in your face
defence performances.