one venue

[overthehillprop]

This thread is going slightly doolally again. I blame Limerick and OTHP.

I demand to see the players in my local tesco or munster rugby will be ruined for everone

[the_dazz]

, kids will want to be a munster player for decades to come, none of them will cock their nose at moving home to take up a chance in the academy, or the team itself just because basecamp isn't where they live.

I wouldn't be too sure about something like that. There are a number of different factors that would keep a kid in his home county regardless of how much he wants to play for Munster, friends, family, college, and club to name four. Add in the cost also, academy players are paid sweet **** all so Munster would need to up that bill significantly.

As said earlier in the thread, there is a **** load of factors in play, hence the decision isn't being made lightly.

[MrsMcGahan]

If a young player would turn down the chance to get into the Munster set up because the base was a bit too far away from his home then I think he simply doesn't have the attitude needed to succeed. So nothing would be lost anyway.

[busby]

If a young player would turn down the chance to get into the Munster set up because the base was a bit too far away from his home then I think he simply doesn't have the attitude needed to succeed. So nothing would be lost anyway.

Its not about it being too far away from his home. It about it ending up in a situation where the chance to go to Limerick would be little different to the chance of going Dublin, Belfast or Galway, or even further afield if those opportunities were presented to them too.

It will be very interesting to see how a few technicalities are sorted out in all this, mainly club affiliations for younger squad players. We saw what happened with Andrew Burke a few seasons ago.

[Waterfordlad]

Agreed Busby. With the new M9 from Waterford it is quicker to get to Dublin than Limerick now, as an example

[barryfitz87]

If UL is deemed to have the best facilities and is a better fit for what Munster Rugby needs to perform at optimal levels and achieve past glories and more, and I'm not saying that it does or doesn't as I haven't been inside the gyms at either UL or CIT what would be needed to prevent this disconnect that the folks in Cork seem to think will happen if training and HC Cup games take place there?

Also if the above scenario is the case with UL being the best facility for Munster Rugby to be the club that we want them to be would you prefer that they still train in Cork to prevent said disconnect?

I'm honestly not trying to wind anyone up here I just want an honest answer if possible. I live in the US so the outcome doesn't affect me either way.

[BOK]

You run the risk of having people in Waterford or Tipp for example, feeling no connection or affiliation with Munster if you have the whole set-up in Limerick and Limerick only. Munster could become just another team rather than one they feel truly part of and I say that in relation to both players and supporters. Just look what happened with the whole Lunster phenomenon a few years back. There`s no reason why that could`nt happen to us, especially if we close in the scope of Munster in the province rather than spread it out wider. It`s only now Leinster are trying to branch out from the whole D4 thing and branch out into the rest of their province and yet some posters here would have you believe the best thing for us to do is to do the opposite and move the whole show to Limerick and Limerick only even though we have a good spread around our Province already and good structures in place, one of which includes the Cork base, and others which are producing more and more Tipp and Kerry players and the sooner we start getting players coming through from Waterford and Clare the better. As I said before Munster is no longer a Limerick/Cork team, it`s a 6 county team now and it`s the only way forward. We should have young players in the likes of Waterford feeling a connection with Munster and a Pride to want to play for their province rather than not being bothered and having an ''ahh shur Dublin`s closer'' mentality which we run the risk of doing if we become a one city team.

As I said before if they decide Limerick is the best place for the training base I`ll support it 100% but if they do they will have to put other structures in place and be very very careful that they dont alienate the rest of the Province.

[BOK]

Good facilities can be bought and put in place anywhere in the Province. Support, player numbers and a pride in your Province cannot however and the structures that will have to be put in place to ensure there is`nt a disconnect between Limerick and the rest of the Province if Limerick is picked would probably cost as much as putting in adequate facilities in any ready made gym or sports facility anyway.

[barryfitz87]

You run the risk of having people in Waterford or Tipp for example, feeling no connection or affiliation with Munster if you have the whole set-up in Limerick and Limerick only. Munster could become just another team rather than one they feel truly part of and I say that in relation to both players and supporters. Just look what happened with the whole Lunster phenomenon a few years back. There`s no reason why that could`nt happen to us, especially if we close in the scope of Munster in the province rather than spread it out wider. It`s only now Leinster are trying to branch out from the whole D4 thing and branch out into the rest of their province and yet some posters here would have you believe the best thing for us to do is to do the opposite and move the whole show to Limerick and Limerick only even though we have a good spread around our Province already and good structures in place, one of which includes the Cork base, and others which are producing more and more Tipp and Kerry players and the sooner we start getting players coming through from Waterford and Clare the better. As I said before Munster is no longer a Limerick/Cork team, it`s a 6 county team now and it`s the only way forward. We should have young players in the likes of Waterford feeling a connection with Munster and a Pride to want to play for their province rather than not being bothered and having an ''ahh shur Dublin`s closer'' mentality which we run the risk of doing if we become a one city team.

As I said before if they decide Limerick is the best place for the training base I`ll support it 100% but if they do they will have to put other structures in place and be very very careful that they dont alienate the rest of the Province.

I understand what you are saying and I don't think anyone wants Munster to become a one city team but in your opinion what would Munster need to do in order to prevent that disconnect with the people in Cork? Would more Rabo games played at Muzzer be enough to make up the difference? I'm not being a smart arse I'm just trying to figure out what people are thinking on this. I'm also not dismissing the other counties of Munster in my thoughts but from what I have read on this thread it seems that it is mainly the people in Cork who are concerned about this disconnect.

[BOK]

I understand what you are saying and I don't think anyone wants Munster to become a one city team but in your opinion what would Munster need to do in order to prevent that disconnect with the people in Cork? Would more Rabo games played at Muzzer be enough to make up the difference? I'm not being a smart arse I'm just trying to figure out what people are thinking on this. I'm also not dismissing the other counties of Munster in my thoughts but from what I have read on this thread it seems that it is mainly the people in Cork who are concerned about this disconnect.

The problem is the the connection is already there with Cork people because it`s been a training base as it is for so long and to take that away would make a large populated area whom feel they`ve made a large contribution to Munster already feel hard done by whereas people in Tipp or Kerry hav`nt had that base all along and it`s only in recent times that players and people from those areas feel like proper Munster rugby people. The connection with the other 4 counties is growing and to play the likes of more B&I games etc.. there would be a huge nod to the contribution that they are now making to Munster rugby whereas to move the training base away from Cork would feel like a step back is being taken here. Also factoring in that as I said Limerick will always be the spiritual home of Munster Rugby to have the the training base in Cork will keep a feeling of the Provinces loyalties being spread around.

[BOK]

I understand what you are saying and I don't think anyone wants Munster to become a one city team but in your opinion what would Munster need to do in order to prevent that disconnect with the people in Cork? Would more Rabo games played at Muzzer be enough to make up the difference? I'm not being a smart arse I'm just trying to figure out what people are thinking on this. I'm also not dismissing the other counties of Munster in my thoughts but from what I have read on this thread it seems that it is mainly the people in Cork who are concerned about this disconnect.

Just realised I didnt really answer your question. TBH if Limerick is picked I dont know what the answer is, I imagine muzzer will get more games as a type of compensation but after that I dont know.

[ECHO]

Abroad afaik

no he is working from home, argument with UL and left....apparently

[taz]

Just realised I didnt really answer your question. TBH if Limerick is picked I dont know what the answer is, I imagine muzzer will get more games as a type of compensation but after that I dont know.

No it won't because it does not generate the same revenue as Thomond does.

[ECHO]

[QUOTE=I Hate DOD;1087103]

The only determining factor should be the quality of the facilities. There is nothing in Cork approaching what UL offers and if that's overlooked, it's being overlooked for the wrong reasons.

I don't get this, what does UL have that's so good for Munster Rugby compared to CIT or UCC?

I personally have seen the training facilities in both UL and CIT that they are using now and the only thing UL has over CIT is the inside basketball courts (which Munster can't get all the time because they may be booked by another team). CIT has a better gym and meeting rooms, it has a pool onsite in Leisure world, it has an outside track and a 60m inside track and one excellent rugby pitch and another fairly good standard pitch. I hear the new office space in UL is good, I haven't seen it but the one in CIT is excellent and far far better than the old office space in UL. The gym that Munster use in UL is small and old, you could not have a full squad using it at once.

I just find this "UL's facilities are the best in Europe" a little bit over the top. I know Munster don't use the new Mardyke arena but it is far better than UL and CIT.

I'm not saying the one training centre should be in Cork but I just think the hype of UL is a bit much. It was the best around and is still excellent but places like CIT have caught up and UCC have passed it out.

havent seen CIT gym etc but UL's gyums are both only ok. its a impressive facility and the pool is top class but the gyms etc are not great.

[BOK]

No it won't because it does not generate the same revenue as Thomond does.

Yeah thats true too.

[Cowboy]

Shirley part of this will be a dedicated Munster Gym Room, they'll get a set of rooms independent of the public to have all their gear set up for good?

[deadlyBuzz]

Client: Plassey CampusDevelopments
Contractor: JSL
Cost: €8,300,000 approx.
Completion: December2011
Location: Universityof Limerick Campus, Limerick
TheUniversity of Limerick Pavillion and National Outdoor Training Facility.Thepavillion building is over two levels and is accessed primarily from the mainSouthern Plaza.It contains 10. no changing roomsand showers.These along with two referee rooms, first aid and receptionwill support four outdoor playing pitches including two soccer, 1 rugby and 1GAA. The upper level deck provides opportunities for external activitiesand is linked to the internal glazed bar/ restaurant area


(Not saying this has anything to do with the one venue debate, but readers may be interested in it as it seemed to appear overnight.)

Pretty impressive facility alright

[joeriddick]

This entire project seems to have been established to improve results, not as a faith and allegiance drive for us poor plebs on the outside.

As many have stated it could overseen by Joe riddick and reptar the king of mars inside either of the jack lynch or Shannon tunnels for all it matters, so long as it improves results, cohesiveness and performance of munsters top tier it will be a resounding success.

As has been evidenced down through the years in this province, if a young lad has the potential and talent to go all the way he WILL be spotted and he WILL be given a crack at the whip, irrespective of his proximity to any major city in the province.

The single venue will help improve and reestablish Munster as a European powerhouse, kids will want to be a munster player for decades to come, none of them will cock their nose at moving home to take up a chance in the academy, or the team itself just because basecamp isn't where they live.

Negotiations with Reptar and his reptilecentatives are still ongoing Cowboy. I can't say much at this early stage, but the Munster training base is DEFINITELY moving to the new Dunmanway Aldi car park. Wonderful facilities and ROG can pick up a sliced pan for 79¢. It was a no brainer.

[lactose intolerant]

Negotiations with Reptar and his reptilecentatives are still ongoing Cowboy. I can't say much at this early stage, but the Munster training base is DEFINITELY moving to the new Dunmanway Aldi car park. Wonderful facilities and ROG can pick up a sliced pan for 79¢. It was a no brainer.

[Cowboy]

A wise selection Joe especially when you consider that Reptar needs a climate hotter than Jonny Wilkinson to achieve maximum Fear of God/Pride and Honesty/one for yourself.

[joeriddick]

Damn those paparazzi.

[John Cooper Clarke]

You run the risk of having people in Waterford or Tipp for example, feeling no connection or affiliation with Munster if you have the whole set-up in Limerick and Limerick only....

Are you serious?

Munster have only ever trained in Cork or Limerick. How could selecting either of these exclusively make folk in Clare, Tipp, Waterford, or Kerry feel disenfranchised?

Almost nobody turns up to watch training either.

The issue is one of making the best use of the best facilities with a view to maximising on field performance. That would include minimisation of travel time too presumably.

[In Exile]

Negotiations with Reptar and his reptilecentatives are still ongoing Cowboy. I can't say much at this early stage, but the Munster training base is DEFINITELY moving to the new Dunmanway Aldi car park. Wonderful facilities and ROG can pick up a sliced pan for 79¢. It was a no brainer.

I for one cannot believe this and will find myself distanced from Munster in future. How could they choose Aldi over somewhere that is steeped in Munster History?
It is a disgrace. At this stage I would like to make another proposal- Bulmers factory. They can pick the apples on the highest trees to practice their lineouts and they can run their drills around the trees-that should perfect their line running.

[Thomond78]

Are you serious?

Munster have only ever trained in Cork or Limerick. How could selecting either of these exclusively make folk in Clare, Tipp, Waterford, or Kerry feel disenfranchised?

Almost nobody turns up to watch training either.

The issue is one of making the best use of the best facilities with a view to maximising on field performance. That would include minimisation of travel time too presumably.

Not actually true. We used do open sessions around the province. Why we dropped that, when it was always a huge success, God knows.

[BOK]

Are you serious?

Munster have only ever trained in Cork or Limerick. How could selecting either of these exclusively make folk in Clare, Tipp, Waterford, or Kerry feel disenfranchised?

Almost nobody turns up to watch training either.

The issue is one of making the best use of the best facilities with a view to maximising on field performance. That would include minimisation of travel time too presumably.

What is everyone`s obsession with weather people go watch them train or not? This has absolutely nothing to do with it in the slightest. Thinking that the training base only has any significance to either city based on how many people go watch them train in that city is ridiculous. There is only a very small number of extreme hardcore people that would go watch their team in any sport train on a regular basis anyway. We all might pop along once and a while to see new regime`s or if we`re passing but most people, quite frankly, have better things to be doing so that has nothing to do with it.

As it stands Munster`s facilities and loyalties are spread between 2 bases. Not only does it spread Munster more geographically in the Province but it also keeps a presence and connection in the 2 largest rugby playing populations in the Province. As I've said numerous times before, Limerick and Thomond is and always will be the ''real'' home of Munster Rugby, Cork does'nt have that pleasure and considering what we have contributed to Munster Rugby over the last however many decades to suddenly have no base in the city and to only have the whole team come down for the usual 2 or 3 games in Muzzer during the season is gonna be a real kick in the teeth for alot of supporters here. There are people here who are just as passionate about Munster as people in Limerick have been renowned for being, because the team have been based here for so long and alot of us have grown up with there presence in the city and thats what makes us feel connected, not the odd game in Muzzer. Limerick will never lose their connection because Thomond will always be there. If that connection in Cork is suddenly gone then young fellas growing up wont feel the same presence and might not feel the urge to start playing rugby and might instead turn to GAA or Soccer.

It would speak volumes worse about us here in Cork if we were not bothered weather the base remained here or not and would probably be accused of not being passionate enough about Munster Rugby ''shur they wernt even bothered about keeping their training base and never put up a fight''. That however is not the case and those of us who follow Munster in Cork are as passionate as anyone else and naturally want the base and connection to remain here as a result.

As for disenfranchising the rest of the Province. As I've said already the ''franchise'' is growing in the rest of the Province to the the point were Tipp is now an as important supplier of players to the team as Cork or Limerick and the Kerry representation continues to grow and a large part of that is down to the 2 bases in my view. It shows we`re not a one trick pony and that all our loyalties and representation dont just come from one city or the other like Dublin in Leinster. As I said it spreads the franchise out more widely geographically and arouses an interest in people who might otherwise not be reached if Munster was operated from just a single base. By narrowing down that 2 base system to a 1 base system it gives the impression that Munster is centralizing its focus of interest rather than extending it outwards. A promising young talent from Waterford suddenly has a long way to go to get to the one and only base of Munster Rugby and instead might decide that Dublin is a better looking prospect. Not only do I think Munster should stay as strong as possible in its 2 current bases but I think it should continue to grow it's presence in the other four counties aswell, weather that be to hold more B&I games around the Province, maybe a week of preseason to be held in one of the other counties each season or whatever.

If Limerick is decided as the best place for the training base then fine I'll support 100% it but I just hope that the other structures that will be needed to keep interest levels aroused in the rest of the Province will be put in place because a waning of interest is gonna be a natural result of centralizing the team. It`s alot easier to keep support and interest levels high and growing in a large Province from 2 spread out basis rather than 1 sole base. A person does`nt need to be an army general to see that that tactic is more effective and I just think it would be crazy that when we already have that set-up in place and rather that keeping it and growing it to cut it off and shrink it would be a huge mistake and interest, support, player numbers and revenue will all suffer in the long run.

[BOK]

The issue is one of making the best use of the best facilities with a view to maximising on field performance. That would include minimisation of travel time too presumably.

This is just one of the issue`s JCC. People seem to forget that Munster Rugby is no longer just a team it is also a business and any business`s prime interest is to make money and be successful. While a single base is, it would appear, vital to Munster being successful on the pitch it is also vital that Munster continue to sustain and increase its player involvement at the underage levels, support base and most importantly revenue to be successful on a business level because unfortunately in this day and age the 2 go hand in hand. Ive already outlined above why I feel it is vital we don't centralize Munster to Limerick in the aid of this quest.

[Viigand]

Please PLEASE stop calling it a franchise....we aren't an NFL team.

[scotscor]

[QUOTE=ECHO;1087681]

havent seen CIT gym etc but UL's gyums are both only ok. its a impressive facility and the pool is top class but the gyms etc are not great.

I hadn't heard that before.
I'd love to see the reaction here if the one venue turned out to be Cork. And that all the players would have to move to Cork. I suspect many of those who think that whatever is best for the team is the right action would change their mind in that situation.
I suspect though that it will be in Limerick.

[Captain Average]

I can't believe that this topic is still going.
People will still be from Munster no matter whether or not Munster train in their home city.
To say that Munster will lose the loyalty of many supporters if they move from one base to the other is crap. They'll upset a few people on the internet and that's that. Most rational thinking people couldn't give a rats arse where the team trains, as long as it's in the best available facilities and helps improve results.
I'd be 100% confident that the team basing themselves in one training camp will have almost zero impact on the team's support.
A few people on the net will get their knickers in a twist, and the world will move on, as always.

[Captain Average]

I hadn't heard that before.
I'd love to see the reaction here if the one venue turned out to be Cork. And that all the players would have to move to Cork. I suspect many of those who think that whatever is best for the team is the right action would change their mind in that situation.
I suspect though that it will be in Limerick.

They wont change their mind, because in the larger scheme of things, why does it matter where a player lives or trains?
It's results that we're interested in, nothing else.