Leinster 2012/2013

[Thomond78]

Tour party, probably. Test side? No. Not with Gatland and Edwards picking the team.

[NotreDameRFC]

Sig bet for first test

[Upfront_1979]

thread hijack anyone?

[NotreDameRFC]

thread hijack anyone?

yes guilty as charged....didn't heed my own advice on post #205

[Thomond78]

thread hijack anyone?

It's very kind of you, but I really couldn't manage another one. I'm stuffed after the last one...

[Upfront_1979]

ah. after several weeks away not thinking about rugby its good to be back and not talking about rugby

[HenryFitz]

Oh, we got an excellent demonstration of his scrummaging vacuum against Australia. The Scottish props mangled the Crims - and then went backwards, because there was nothing behind them. That's a second row failing. It took until the last three scrums for him to push. And the Glasgow props - Low and Welsh - are BEHIND - Cross and Jacobsen, neatly filleting that argument. I do love that apparently it's no fluke for fullbacks not to tackle. Not outside of the Irish team, it's not. But if metres run is the only measure, then surely Quintin Geldenhuys must be 12.5 times better than him, based on the Italy game? Or are facts like him going missing in the Wooden Spoon crunch and getting the shepherd's crook to be shrugged off if they don't fit the narrative? I also note you're not above telling direct fibs about the match-up against Ian Evans: Gray was not ahead of Evans in all stats as they had the same number of lineout takes.This time last year, we heard the same hype about Lawes. We're hearing it about Visser, and we've heard it about far, far too many Scots before, with Nicol leading the charge on that front. You appear to be hanging your hat entirely on metres run. Well, lots of metres run by a second row in a team losing all the time and being smashed in the setpiece and with low metres run by the back row tells its own story. The backrow are having to cover for him so he can run around: and it ain't working.

I watched the Australia Scotland game again last night to see if I had misremembered it. Turns out I hadn't. The Scottish props did not mangle their opposite numbers. They generally had the upper hand for the first 60, but went backwards a few times after losing the hit. It looked like this was a timing problem, with the Aussies anticipating the call better. The most Scotland ever went back was a yard, before they recovered and held. There were a number of 5m scrums to Australia, all of which were repulsed without difficulty. Scotland had one 5m scrum, which their emergency No.8 John Barclay foolishly flung wide just as they were beginning to get the shove on. In the last 20, when Oz brought on Ben Alexander, the momentum changed and the Scottish props, particularly Glasgow's Ryan Grant began to get the better of their opposite numbers, wheeling a few defensive scrums and winning their own ball easily.

Moray Low is not first choice for Glasgow. Welsh (a sometime tighthead) and Cusack are ahead of him, but as this is a recent development, it hasn't filtered up to international level yet. Ryan Grant, who is first choice, has now taken over from Jacobsen, who's been there on reputation recently.

Strangely for a lock who is accused of being a poor scrummager, Richie Gray was the tight-head lock for Glasgow, and will presumably be the tight-head lock for Sale. When not playing with big Jim Hamilton, he's also the tight-head lock for Scotland.

Gray had already run 25m, with the last 15m being gifted to him by Kearney. I said it wasn't a fluke because it wasn't his first clean break of the championship. I assumed you knew that.

Aggregate stats are more useful than one-off stats, for obvious reasons. One game tells you little, albeit that the stats from a game can be a useful corrective to preconceptions about who was the better player. As a note, Geldenhuys received the ball 7 times against Scotland for his 25m, Gray received the ball twice for his 2m, which is a low sample size from which to extrapolate anything.

Did he go missing in the crunch against Italy? He made 17 tackles. It was an inept performance by the entire Scottish team, kicking the ball away or dropping it at every opportunity. He only got on the ball twice for that reason. He's not picked to steal ball on the floor, so what exactly was he supposed to do? As for Robinson's substitution of him instead of Hamilton, who cost them the game - well, that's not untypical of Robinson.

The lineout stats are not indicative of anything other than who the hooker throws the ball to. An equality between Evans and Gray's lineout stats says nothing about anything. Lineout steals say something, but usually it's something about the hooker.

Scotland's backrow has one ball-carrier in it. Dave Denton. Gray is carrying because there's no-one else who does. It seems mildly eccentric to interpret that as the back-row having to cover for his gallops, but if that's the story you like, read it away.

I'd like to comment further on your suggestion that Scotland have been smashed in the set-piece, but I'll just say that's not how I remember it. As I feel like I've wasted hours of my life watching the boring slug-fest between Oz and Scotland for a second time only to find that it was not as you said it was, I don't think I'll waste any more time verifying your claims.

[the plastic paddy]

Whatever else can be said about Richie Gray he only turned 23 last week and to be as prominent at such a young age and for it not to be based on cheap shots (Lawes) is unusual in a lock. I wrecked this thread by saying that gray is one of the best young locks in the world and I stand by that initial statement. He is not better than Paulie but at 23 I would say Paulie was not far ahead of where Gray is now.

Obviously I hope Richie Gray goes on the Lions tour because it will mean one fewer Irish player having years taken off their playing careers for the sake of Murdoch's bank balance but I don't want to take the thread even further off track and I am trying not to get involved in Lions discussions because I don't want to bore people even more.

[busby]

Whatever else can be said about Richie Gray he only turned 23 last week and to be as prominent at such a young age and for it not to be based on cheap shots (Lawes) is unusual in a lock. I wrecked this thread by saying that gray is one of the best young locks in the world and I stand by that initial statement. He is not better than Paulie but at 23 I would say Paulie was not far ahead of where Gray is now.

Obviously I hope Richie Gray goes on the Lions tour because it will mean one fewer Irish player having years taken off their playing careers for the sake of Murdoch's bank balance but I don't want to take the thread even further off track and I am trying not to get involved in Lions discussions because I don't want to bore people even more.

Gray is well ahead of where POC was at that age. Phenomenal talent.

[thoughtless]

At age 22, Paulie made his Ireland debut (Wales in 2002, scoring a try before coming off with concussion, if I recall correctly) and was a nominee for European player of the year after helping Munster to the final against Leicester. It's not particularly important whether Gray is ahead of where O'Connell was then, or vice versa, but what's interesting is that there is a fair comparison to be made, which speaks volumes for just how good Gray is, notwithstanding any potential Scot hype which may be factored into Sky or BBC assessments of the guy.

[thoughtless]

Also, whoops, didn't mean to continue the derailment of the thread.

Would any Leinster posters care to speculate on the make-up of the team for the weekend? What options are there at centre? (Surely Jordan Coughlan won't be in there again.)

[NotreDameRFC]

Whatever else can be said about Richie Gray he only turned 23 last week and to be as prominent at such a young age and for it not to be based on cheap shots (Lawes) is unusual in a lock. I wrecked this thread by saying that gray is one of the best young locks in the world and I stand by that initial statement. He is not better than Paulie but at 23 I would say Paulie was not far ahead of where Gray is now.

Obviously I hope Richie Gray goes on the Lions tour because it will mean one fewer Irish player having years taken off their playing careers for the sake of Murdoch's bank balance but I don't want to take the thread even further off track and I am trying not to get involved in Lions discussions because I don't want to bore people even more.

paddy paddy paddy...... your happy to take murdochs money for HCup .

[i_like_cake]

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/news/14463.php

He told the Irish Independent: "Sean's most recent operation was last week. He's feeling pretty good about the operation.
"It will be a long, slow process. There weren't any complications. It was two different operations. We're hoping he'll be back mid-December."

[the plastic paddy]

paddy paddy paddy...... your happy to take murdochs money for HCup .

When was the HEC played in July and August and when did it involve the second team playing pointless mid week games which generally just degenerate into attempts by the host nation to injure as many players as possible??

[garryowen2323]

when did it involve the second team playing pointless mid week games which generally just degenerate into attempts by the host nation to injure as many players as possible??

Sounds like an Eddie O'Sullivan World Cup warm up!!

[NotreDameRFC]

When was the HEC played in July and August and when did it involve the second team playing pointless mid week games which generally just degenerate into attempts by the host nation to injure as many players as possible??

never paddy... ok you've convinced me ...no more lions for me...

though we are only to happy to bate the ****e out of the aussies on wet windy night in TP
in a pointless match for them.... ..

[the plastic paddy]

never paddy... ok you've convinced me ...no more lions for me...

though we are only to happy to bate the ****e out of the aussies on wet windy night in TP
in a pointless match for them.... ..

I can't remember the schedule of that aussie tour but lets assume they played England after they played Munster, did Munster bate the ****e out of them to try and do the ORCs a favour? Also, for all the Aussies were given a hiding, I don't remember any of the dirty stuff that the dirt trackers tend to cop on a Lions tour, McRae & ROG? Anyway, this is not the lions tour thread and I know we agree to disagree on this topic.

[NotreDameRFC]

Liberty Insurance in talks with Leinster/ RDS naming rights....wonder if it comes to pass how would that fit in with O's ground!!!!

[cemec]

Also, whoops, didn't mean to continue the derailment of the thread.

Would any Leinster posters care to speculate on the make-up of the team for the weekend? What options are there at centre? (Surely Jordan Coughlan won't be in there again.)

He won't be although I'd expect him to appear in the centre for the A side this season perhaps. He's got the raw talent and doesn't turn 20 until the 31st of October so still very young. With Schmidt giving him his lessons, he's got as good a chance as possible. Would be great if Leinster could develop him as such and there was a 17 stone, 6'4" talented inside centre in this country.

I'd say we'll see the following for the weekend:
15. Nacewa 14. Conway 13. Macken 12. Reid 11. Carr 10. Madigan 9. Boss 8. Auva'a 7. Jennings 6. Ryan 5. Toner 4. Cullen/Denton 3. Hagan 2. Strauss 1. VdM.

Would expect Scarlets to win as they have their internationals available and Leinster are beyond brutal in the opening week historically.

[Sketchy]

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/news/14463.php

He told the Irish Independent: "Sean's most recent operation was last week. He's feeling pretty good about the operation.
"It will be a long, slow process. There weren't any complications. It was two different operations. We're hoping he'll be back mid-December."

That is pretty huge news to be fair. No SOB until mid-December. That does not sound good at all. Hope he doesn't go the road of Denis Leamy. Very important player for Ireland, but Leinster would find it impossible to replace him.

[Old Dog]

Liberty Insurance in talks with Leinster/ RDS naming rights....wonder if it comes to pass how would that fit in with O's ground!!!!

It's a completely different Liberty (as you know).

I assume that they'd call the RDS the Liberty Arena or Bowl or somesuch to differentiate between the two venues.

[Kavy]

That is pretty huge news to be fair. No SOB until mid-December. That does not sound good at all. Hope he doesn't go the road of Denis Leamy. Very important player for Ireland, but Leinster would find it impossible to replace him.

There has been talk around Carlow that the 2nd op. was on his other hip, and further, that this season could end up being a write off for SOB.

I stress its just talk I've heard, and not from anybody or place I'd consider a source. I wonder have any of the Leinster brethren stronger news on how he's doing?

[The Spoofer]

There has been talk around Carlow that the 2nd op. was on his other hip, and further, that this season could end up being a write off for SOB.

I stress its just talk I've heard, and not from anybody or place I'd consider a source. I wonder have any of the Leinster brethren stronger news on how he's doing?

Second op was on his other hip. They are happy with how it went and he will be back mid december (Clermont home game probably)

[the plastic paddy]

Any sign of the Leinster team for Llanelli? Couldn't find anything on their site.

[ormond lad]

Any sign of the Leinster team for Llanelli? Couldn't find anything on their site.

not meant to be announced until around midday
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/newsroom/10223.php

[the plastic paddy]

SCARLETS:
15: Liam Williams
14: George North
13: Gareth Maule
12: Scott Williams
11: Andy Fenby
10: Aled Thomas
9: Tavis Knoyle
1: Rhodri Jones
2: Ken Owens
3: Deacon Manu
4: George Earle
5: Richard Kelly
6: Aaron Shingler
7: Josh Turnbull
8: Rob McCusker CAPTAIN
REPLACEMENTS:
16: Matthew Rees
17: Phil John
18: Samson Lee
19: Sione Timani
20: Kieran Murphy
21: Gareth Davies
22: Rhys Priestland
23: Jonanthan Davies
LEINSTER:
15: Isa Nacewa
14: Andrew Conway
13: Brendan Macken
12: Noel Reid
11: Fionn Carr
10: Ian Madigan
9: Isaac Boss
1: Heinke van der Merwe
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Jamie Hagan
4: Damian Browne
5: Devin Toner
6: Dominic Ryan
7: Shane Jennings CAPTAIN
8: Leo Auva'a
REPLACEMENTS:
16: Aaron Dundon
17: Jack McGrath
18: Martin Moore
19: Tom Denton
20: Jordi Murphy
21: John Cooney
22: Collie O'Shea
23: Darren Hudson
REFEREE: Neil Paterson (SRU), ASSISTANT REFEREES: Tim Hayes, Martyn Lewis (both WRU), TMO: Nigel Whitehouse (WRU)

[the plastic paddy]

Looking forward to seeing how all these young fellas get on against a strong Scarlets outfit. Pleased to see Dominic Ryan back playing, he has got a big opportunity to push on with SOB out.

[Qwerty1]

Cracking game currently on between Tasman and Taranaki in the ITM Cup. 32 - 27 to Taranaki after only 35 mins. New Leinster signing, Andrew Goodman, playing 12 for Tasman - has landed five kicks from five, including a monster penalty from inside his own half.

[The Outlaw]

interesting that the former physio and strength and conditioning coaches from leinster are now with the irish camp.

[munstershane]

7 - 3 to Scarlets, 20 mins gone, Scarlets with a scrum 5.