Leinster 2012/2013

[Old Dog]

Reading anything into this game is absolutely pointless. Leinster were thumped by a weakened Ospreys side in the opener last season with a stronger side than last night. 5 of Leinster's backline had 60 senior starts between them. They were up against multiple Welsh internationals in the Scarlets back line and, more than likely, several Lions.

Result was never in question.

But performance was - and that was a pretty poor performance. Last year we 'only' lost 27 - 3 to a strong Ospreys XV (despite having Berquist at OH!) Last night was much worse. There's no point trying to play it down.

The only redeeming feature to my mind is that Leinster's season ended 3 weeks later than Scarlets did last May, so it may be that the squad is a couple of weeks behind the Scarlets in match-fitness; which may stand to us later in the season - after most of the Scarlets boys have packed their sunscreen, buckets and spades and headed to Mumbles Bay.

[the plastic paddy]

Sun screen and the mumbles OD? Unlikely.

[sewa]

He is. Pity he appears to have gone the way of many of his compatriots. Turning around and patting Hudson in the face after scoring a try was pathetic.

Hudson deciding to put the shoulder into North after the try was scored was pathetic, North was merely acknowledging it

[Thomond78]

But performance was - and that was a pretty poor performance. Last year we 'only' lost 27 - 3 to a strong Ospreys XV (despite having Berquist at OH!) Last night was much worse. There's no point trying to play it down.

The only redeeming feature to my mind is that Leinster's season ended 3 weeks later than Scarlets did last May, so it may be that the squad is a couple of weeks behind the Scarlets in match-fitness; which may stand to us later in the season - after most of the Scarlets boys have packed their sunscreen, buckets and spades and headed to Mumbles Bay.

Mumbles is east of the Loughor - the Ospreich. The Turks would head west to places like Burry Port on the Turkistan coast. How the hell they ever get on speaking terms to play for Wales is a mystery.

[munsterforever]

Scarlets look handy. Macken is no 12 and carr is poor again. Madigan man of the match by a mile. Playing like that behind a beaten team was amazing.

[cemec]

Scarlets look handy. Macken is no 12 and carr is poor again. Madigan man of the match by a mile. Playing like that behind a beaten team was amazing.

Macken was 13 and Madigans kicking from hand was as bad as ever. He's great with ball in hand but gives a side no territory or control from behind an under-performing pack. Aimless up and unders with no chase organised and a howler of a penalty that landed about 10m away from the sideline were notable. All the slick passing and quick feet in the world mean little in that sort of game. You want to play the game down their end. It was that sort of game where you really feel Ian McKinley's loss.

Since the 2010/11 season and Madigan, as far as I'm aware, has missed touch from a penalty at least once in ever game he has started in where he has been doing the kicking.

Regarding Leinster MOTM, Toner was probably the man. Carried decently, got a try, ran a good line out and stole one or two of theirs. Hagan, encouragingly, gave a better account of himself than he has done for some time but so did Marty Moore in his 30 minutes. Think Moore might make his first start next week at home.

[joeriddick]

What a load of piffle, it is not Leinsters fault if the IRFU policy dictates that 11 of their squad are to be rested, any more than it is munsters when our frontline players are not playing.

Yes, but my point was that it's less of a spectacle so fans won't come and watch the European champions C Team. It shows the Irish teams (and the IRFU that control them) don't really care about every game in the Celtic league - until the first game of the Pro12 is treated like the first game of the Premiership or the Aviva then attendances will stay low.

[99_oK?]

Only to be expected with a side containing only 3 normal starters...missing the internationals is tough but missing the likes of D Kearney, EOM, Ruddock, Fitzgerald etc takes out too much experience and size etc

Arguably, but didn't Leinster have over half of last year's starting XV too? Guys like Isa, Boss, most of the pack, etc should have shown a bit more leadership and bottle and show the young guys what it's about. Leinster didn't look too bad early on, but folded far too easily later on. Worst aspect was the lack of physicality in defence and falling off tackles in general. Scarlets did put some good moves together, but how much was aided by poor Leinster defence?

What I would be worried about is that Leinster's body language was all wrong as Scarlets took over. In contrast both Munster and Ulster stepped up and gave a performance, 'stars' available or not. You mention the missing stars, but BoD, D'Arcy and co. will not last forever; are there no young tryos eyeing their jersies? I know it's early days and just one result, but is there a small bit of complacency creeping into D4?

[Old Dog]

Arguably, but didn't Leinster have over half of last year's starting XV too? Guys like Isa, Boss, most of the pack, etc should have shown a bit more leadership and bottle and show the young guys what it's about. Leinster didn't look too bad early on, but folded far too easily later on. Worst aspect was the lack of physicality in defence and falling off tackles in general. Scarlets did put some good moves together, but how much was aided by poor Leinster defence?

What I would be worried about is that Leinster's body language was all wrong as Scarlets took over. In contrast both Munster and Ulster stepped up and gave a performance, 'stars' available or not. You mention the missing stars, but BoD, D'Arcy and co. will not last forever; are there no young tryos eyeing their jersies? I know it's early days and just one result, but is there a small bit of complacency creeping into D4?

Yep - that's what I saw. Losing is grand, but losing the way that Leinster lost last night simply isn't acceptable.

The NG Dragons have never won in Dublin, but I reckon that they'll fancy their chances in the RDS next Saturday unless Leinster up their performance significantly.

[brightspark]

Maybe schmit felt a bit of complacency creeping in and has decided to mix it up a bit especially to show the younger guys there is a fine line between winning and losing . Besides its a long season and Leinster have the firepower in reserve if they need to pick up BP's later on.
no doubt the performance was poor last night. Real lack of accuracy and urgency.

[The Outlaw]

Macken was 13 and Madigans kicking from hand was as bad as ever. He's great with ball in hand but gives a side no territory or control from behind an under-performing pack. Aimless up and unders with no chase organised and a howler of a penalty that landed about 10m away from the sideline were notable. All the slick passing and quick feet in the world mean little in that sort of game. You want to play the game down their end. It was that sort of game where you really feel Ian McKinley's loss.

Since the 2010/11 season and Madigan, as far as I'm aware, has missed touch from a penalty at least once in ever game he has started in where he has been doing the kicking.

Regarding Leinster MOTM, Toner was probably the man. Carried decently, got a try, ran a good line out and stole one or two of theirs. Hagan, encouragingly, gave a better account of himself than he has done for some time but so did Marty Moore in his 30 minutes. Think Moore might make his first start next week at home.

I'd agree. I'm constantly amazed here by those who think Madiagn's kicking out of hand is remotely at international potential level.

[sewa]

Is that based on when he plays at 9 or at 10 outlaw?

[The Outlaw]

Is that based on when he plays at 9 or at 10 outlaw?

Well he must have been watching Quade Cooper playing sewa. Did you send him any vids?

[sewa]

Well he must have been watching Quade Cooper playing sewa. Did you send him any vids?

SBW reckons Quade is a class act, I'd post the article but we both know you saw it, answer the question by the way

[The Outlaw]

SBW reckons Quade is a class act, I'd post the article but we both know you saw it, answer the question by the way

one to many punches to the head fro SBW

[munsterforever]

did i say 12? sorry i just meant the fellow pretending to be a centre that cant tackle.
Madigan is a class act and is just a kid. We will all deny it but would love it if he were a munsterman

[brightspark]

did i say 12? sorry i just meant the fellow pretending to be a centre that cant tackle.
Madigan is a class act and is just a kid. We will all deny it but would love it if he were a munsterman

So does he want to be a rugby player when he grows up?
madigan was poor on sat night full stop.

[cemec]

did i say 12? sorry i just meant the fellow pretending to be a centre that cant tackle.
Madigan is a class act and is just a kid. We will all deny it but would love it if he were a munsterman

I'm not a Munster fan. He's a classy player with superb ability but I don't think he'll ever be a top level outhalf. He simply lacks the clinical approach that is needed. If he had it, he wouldn't be the cavalier, entertaining player that he is. He turns 24 this season so is old enough to start showing a different aspect to his game. Sexton had a HEC and a ML medal in his pocket when he was that age having been a central figure in winning both. I think we might see him finally line out at 12 once or twice this season as the need to a long term solution there becomes more pressing.

[NotreDameRFC]

Quinn Roux seemingly added to match day squad v Dragons ...

[Captain Average]

Gibbes thinks the Leinster lads are yellow bellied softies.

“Apart from the obvious lack of physicality I just think we were slightly naive in the collision area and the breakdown area,”

“They had a bit of experience, Test experience, and their ability to position themselves early or manipulate situations – I just think there’s an experience factor there. There’s no hiding away from the fact that we weren’t tough enough.”

“That’s not an experience thing. That’s why I’m saying. That’s got nothing to do with experience or Test caps, or anything like that. I just think we weren’t prepared to meet the physical challenge and to impose ourselves and I think that’s one of the real disappointing aspects of the game and as I say, there’s no way to solve that by beating each other up at training. You can only do that by bringing something to the RDS this Saturday.”

“We have to look at a few things, deal with a few harsh realities. The younger guys will be better for the experience of having played against guys like that who are able to benefit from a bit of nous and that’s going to hold us in good stead because I think the Dragons are going to be in good confidence after their performance.
“They’ve got (Dan) Lydiate and (Toby) Faletau in the pack so hopefully we’ve taken on a few harsh realities and we can bring that because it’ll be bloody important this week.”

[Bitter As A Lemon]

did i say 12? sorry i just meant the fellow pretending to be a centre that cant tackle.
Madigan is a class act and is just a kid. We will all deny it but would love it if he were a munsterman

He is great when Leinster are going fwd and winning, but I have never seen him take a game by the scruff of the neck and win it. For me he is still miles behind Sexton and ROG, because of that aspect.
Keatley seems to be the same for Munster. Great when on the up, but no control when the backs are against the wall.

[ronk]

I'm not a Munster fan. He's a classy player with superb ability but I don't think he'll ever be a top level outhalf. He simply lacks the clinical approach that is needed. If he had it, he wouldn't be the cavalier, entertaining player that he is. He turns 24 this season so is old enough to start showing a different aspect to his game. Sexton had a HEC and a ML medal in his pocket when he was that age having been a central figure in winning both. I think we might see him finally line out at 12 once or twice this season as the need to a long term solution there becomes more pressing.

He turned 23 in March. Almost 4 years younger than Sexton.

Madigan has two HC medals, played in both finals too.

[cemec]

He turned 23 in March. Almost 4 years younger than Sexton.

Madigan has two HC medals, played in both finals too.

Indeed but they took vastly different paths to acquiring their first silverware. Sexton was starting outhalf for the 07/08 ML season (13 starts, 16 appearances out of 18 games) and played a central role in winning down in Munster as well as beating them at home including a smartly struck drop goal to put the game to bed. That was at 22. He played the bulk of the semi final in 2009 and had an excellent final after starting a few of the group pool games. Madigan has started one game in the HEC and, whilst he got 15 starts in the Pro12 last season, Ospreys at home (which we lost) was the biggest game he was trusted with. His HEC medals have come on the back of one start and six sub appearances when the game was already put to bed.

His talent demands game time but he needs to start delivering game control very soon or his career as an outhalf will be over before it begins. With Sexton just having turned 27, I hope Madigan is looked at in another position. I can't see him being first choice in Leinster over the next 5 years.

[sewa]

Thats an excellent analysis but is only true if you rate Sexton, I still don't, IMHO he is the main reason why we aren't a competitive 6N team anymore

[The Spoofer]

Thats an excellent analysis but is only true if you rate Sexton, I still don't, IMHO he is the main reason why we aren't a competitive 6N team anymore

Thats an excellent analysis but is only true if you rate Kidney, I still don't, IMHO he is the main reason why we aren't a competitive 6N team anymore

[mr chips]

Some off-topic chat about how brilliant the moderators are moved here.

[upandout]

Thats an excellent analysis but is only true if you rate Kidney, I still don't, IMHO he is the main reason why we aren't a competitive 6N team anymore

If he'd a twenty seven year old ROG we still would be though, that's the thing.

[Paddy Whac]

He turned 23 in March. Almost 4 years younger than Sexton.

Madigan has two HC medals, played in both finals too.

How many of those games, in fact any knockout game was he brought on to turn the game around?

[i_like_cake]

Bit of a weird question considering how utterly dominant the Laydeez have been for the last 2 years... no..?

[Paddy Whac]

Bit of a weird question considering how utterly dominant the Laydeez have been for the last 2 years... no..?

Well I can think of 3 ML finals which they lost and he never got off the bench in at least two of them, dont think he got game time against Clermont in the H/cup this year.

It's easy to throw out that he's got H/cup medals but he really has them on the back of the dominance of Leinster rather than he's own contribution to games. To me he's unproven in games where Leinster need an outhalf to turn a game.