England want to change Heineken cup qualification.

[The Outlaw]

Listen- I really don't accept that teams like Edinburgh are not trying in the Rabo. Sometimes things just go wrong for you in one competition and right in another- and you prioritise accordingly. We've all done it! Leinster has always found Edinburgh a tough nut in the Celtic/ Rabo. I have watchedthe AP and Top 14 intently this year- as I have most Rabo games with Leinsterand the other provinces. There's not ahuge difference in standard. With the exception of Leinster getting a run- away lead, the rest of the fixtures were very competitive. Even Aironi won acouple of games. The playoffs are quality too. The final of the Rabolast week was a great match- wrong result for us- but a great match! As was last year's match, which you won (remember - ) and even the Osprey's win in 2009 was dramatic. Wehave no need to feel apologetic for the standard of our league.Our attitude to the Rabo in Ireland is dominated by the fact that we have become fixated on the primacy of the HC- rightly too! But the standard in the Rabo is improving- not something I'd say for the T14 or the AP. But in any case, the HC and Rabo are separate competitions- teams are allowed to but more emphasise on one than the other. The truth is that the AP clubs will use any argument they can to get extra places. Why is this? Because they want the money that goes with the HC participation- simple. They're not interested in fairness. Answer the false ‘Rabo unfair’ case and they’ll give you another: concede it and they’ll be back in 5 years with more demands- based on ‘merit’. Because if we give up Rabo places to them now- we will be weaker then. The fact that the RFU has the option of naming other non-AP clubs (Championship- perhaps?) to represent England needs to be recognised. There are other options!

im sorry but i dont agree. The Rabo is a crap competition in its current guise. 70 percent of the games have no edge. Bring in HEC qualification and watch it rachet it up. Benefits all participants.Edinburgh are taking the piss. Bradley did it for years with connaht in the Rabo.

[Viigand]

It is at least as good as the Premiership which is becoming increasingly turgid.

[The Outlaw]

It is at least as good as the Premiership which is becoming increasingly turgid.

premiership was better this year then other years. The final and the emergence of Harkequins has definitely helped matters.

[Viigand]

The final was quite an entertaining game and I do like the way they play rugby. But in general I've been disappointed with the games I've seen this year. Most of the Rabo games are just as good (or bad!).

[The Outlaw]

The final was quite an entertaining game and I do like the way they play rugby. But in general I've been disappointed with the games I've seen this year. Most of the Rabo games are just as good (or bad!).

If we want the Rabo to be better. HEC qualification has to come into it.

[shanners]

If we want the Rabo to be better. HEC qualification has to come into it.

Care to elaborate?

[busby]

I'd be with Outlaw on this. Some of the Rabo games are a joke in terms of their intensity, they're like challenge games. There is an asterix next to ourselves and Leinster's titles in my view.

[artaneboy]

I'd be with Outlaw on this. Some of the Rabo games are a joke in terms of their intensity, they're like challenge games. There is an asterix next to ourselves and Leinster's titles in my view.

What??? Our Celtic/ Rabo titles or the HC on account of how "we had it so easy in the former"? See where this takes you? If you condemn some Rabo matches as being pathetic, you will find their equal in the AP. The AP final was good- but the Rabo was great.

[Cianostays]

The best compromise was suggested earlier I think, the top team in the league from the 4 participating countires qualify automatically with the rest of the positions determined by league position. Maybe give England and France one more place each to shut them up.

[i_like_cake]

Every country needs to be represented... so top from each country if anything.,...

[2EMEREP]

The hypocrisy of the RFU and Premiership Rugby is staggering. Going on about how teams from the Pro12 who don't deserve to play top flight rugby are guaranteed of it next year (Newcastle Falcons, anyone?). Putting that to one side, let's just say that they get their wish. That would mean no Italian representation for the foreseeable future. And based on last years table, there would be three Irish teams (let's ignore Connacht qualifying by dint of Leinster's victory, they'll want to change that too), two Welsh teams and one Scottish team. So, six English teams, six French teams, three Irish teams, two Welsh teams and one Scottish team. Hardly a European cup. So here's my idea. Let the French and the English have their way. BUT, they have to cut their teams from six to four. The four remaining places would then be spread amongst countries who are rarely, if ever represented, like Georgia, Romania, Germany, Russia, Poland or Spain. Let's make it a true European Championship, rather than the Old Boys club Championship that the English and French want.

[The Outlaw]

The hypocrisy of the RFU and Premiership Rugby is staggering. Going on about how teams from the Pro12 who don't deserve to play top flight rugby are guaranteed of it next year (Newcastle Falcons, anyone?). Putting that to one side, let's just say that they get their wish. That would mean no Italian representation for the foreseeable future. And based on last years table, there would be three Irish teams (let's ignore Connacht qualifying by dint of Leinster's victory, they'll want to change that too), two Welsh teams and one Scottish team. So, six English teams, six French teams, three Irish teams, two Welsh teams and one Scottish team. Hardly a European cup. So here's my idea. Let the French and the English have their way. BUT, they have to cut their teams from six to four. The four remaining places would then be spread amongst countries who are rarely, if ever represented, like Georgia, Romania, Germany, Russia, Poland or Spain. Let's make it a true European Championship, rather than the Old Boys club Championship that the English and French want.

Would dilute the competition. Its either the elite tournament or its not. I'm a Connacht fan and I'd prefer to see us earn our own qualification. The Amlin is there for those that are developing. Treviso will qualify quite easily in the years ahead. They have huge money behind them and will be right up there in 3-5 years. So the Italians will get stronger.As regards the other countries it would be near enough abuse to let them be beaten by 100 points every week.

[Aussiedub]

Tell the French etc to put out full teams away from home in the HC and compete properly then come back and see how it goes

[The Outlaw]

Tell the French etc to put out full teams away from home in the HC and compete properly then come back and see how it goes

thats a fair point and should also be part of the debate.

[Point]

If this happened this year Connacht Treviso Edinburgh and Parma would miss out while London Irish Bath Stade Francis and Bordeaux Begles would get in ( i think)

It's nothing to us, but it is better to have the likes of Treviso and Parma, for the sake of the game's expansion, than having crap English and French sides.

[busby]

Every country needs to be represented... so top from each country if anything.,...

An argument there for that alright. Say one each from Scotland and Italy and two each from Ireland and Wales. Give a total of 8 places and whoever can rank highest out of all teams gets the extra two spots.

[Turkish Fez!]

As a Scarlet supporter I think HC qulification should be on merit in the Rabo. Rediculous situation when your whole season can be dominated to just finish ahead of the Dragons. We could not even do that 2 years ago but got in through the back door because Cardiff Blues won the Amlin. Improvement this year 5th and we would have qualified on merit. As for the your claims that the Rabo is a stronger league than the Amlin? We are on the up but we have sometimes punched above our weight in the HC. With last years squad IMO Scarlets would have stuggled to finish in the top 8 in the Aviva with the depth of players available.
I think the Amlin is also a half decent tournement God forbid we ever have to start in it. Good sides in it next year, Gloucester, Bath, Stade, Perpignan. As for the French not caring for it, you tell that to the 4 French teams that played in the semis.

[Evil Omer]

The simple fact is this would stink less if it wasn't the English old boy's club complaining. They try to rig their own "relegation" every season to protect their own and then have the temerity to complain that other leagues don't have relegation. Well as we've clearly seen this year their's might as well not either. They are appalling hypocrites, without even going into their "disciplinary" hearings, what's that you say, England want you for the summer tour, no case to answer then my boy, off you go now. Rabo should be playing some kind of qualification but not because of a bunch of self serving hypocrites want more money (again) for themselves. Why don't they go and sell the competition to a tv company and tell them they've got the rest of our signatures in their pockets like they did last time they got too big for their boots with the 6N.

[The Outlaw]

The simple fact is this would stink less if it wasn't the English old boy's club complaining. They try to rig their own "relegation" every season to protect their own and then have the temerity to complain that other leagues don't have relegation. Well as we've clearly seen this year their's might as well not either. They are appalling hypocrites, without even going into their "disciplinary" hearings, what's that you say, England want you for the summer tour, no case to answer then my boy, off you go now. Rabo should be playing some kind of qualification but not because of a bunch of self serving hypocrites want more money (again) for themselves. Why don't they go and sell the competition to a tv company and tell them they've got the rest of our signatures in their pockets like they did last time they got too big for their boots with the 6N.

unfortunately for once they are right in my view

[hooke]

To develop the game and keep it strongish in countries like Scotland and Italy we need to make compromises and I for one am happy that top team in each country qualify from Rabo and the Balance is given to league top Finishers. That way we will always have an Italian and Scotish team representated.

[NotreDameRFC]

Following recent media interest, Premiership Rugby confirms that it has given notice, effective 1stJune 2012, under the terms of the European Rugby Cup (ERC) Accord and understands that notice has also been served by other parties to the Accord. Such notice period expires at the end of the 2013/2014 tournament at which time, therefore, the Accord will terminate."We hope that there will now be an urgent dialogue about the future of European cup rugby, including qualification, competition formats and ambition to expand into new markets," said Premiership Rugby Chief Executive Mark McCafferty.

[Point]

New markets being Hull and Brighton presumably....

[Old Dog]

The final was quite an entertaining game and I do like the way they play rugby. But in general I've been disappointed with the games I've seen this year. Most of the Rabo games are just as good (or bad!).

As an avid watcher of both, I would contend that the APL product was significantly better than the Rabo, this season. (I would except Saracens from that, as the brand of rugby that Venter and McCall were churning out made even Foley Turnip rugby at its most turgid look attractive.)

One thing that I suspect we can all agree on is that, with very few exceptions, Top 14 rugby consistently gave us the least appealing rugby product on view this season.

[Old Dog]

The simple fact is this would stink less if it wasn't the English old boy's club complaining. They try to rig their own "relegation" every season to protect their own and then have the temerity to complain that other leagues don't have relegation. Well as we've clearly seen this year their's might as well not either. They are appalling hypocrites, without even going into their "disciplinary" hearings, what's that you say, England want you for the summer tour, no case to answer then my boy, off you go now. Rabo should be playing some kind of qualification but not because of a bunch of self serving hypocrites want more money (again) for themselves. Why don't they go and sell the competition to a tv company and tell them they've got the rest of our signatures in their pockets like they did last time they got too big for their boots with the 6N.

Any chance that you'd use a scalpel instead of an anti-English blunderbuss, Omearsa old chap? We all know that, like Turnipforever, you hate the English and won't ride their women, but a focused contribution is often more interesting.

PS please don't get up on your high horse and gallop off into the sunset again - because, your Anglo-phobia excepted, you and I agree about many rugby-related issues.

[Old Dog]

New markets being Hull and Brighton presumably....

Or Cork? We could all do with having some regular decent rugby in the Southern Capital. And there's a huge market for it. Heck, I'd even make the long drive up from God's armpit to watch it from time to time (or drive to Ros and bum a lift from Taz!).

[blackwarrior]

IRFU AGM yesterday discussed "inevitable changes in the Heineken Cup structure", are have identified these as a "key risk" to the organisation's finances.


Tom Grace presented the financial report:

"...made reference to a “key risk” to future income that is the inevitable change in the Heineken Cup structures.

“The IRFU and the provinces have benefited enormously from this competition over the last 12 years, from the sale of season tickets, gate receipts, prize money, not to mention the broader benefits to Irish rugby as a whole.

“Any proposed change to the structure of the competition will require the collective attention of the union and the provinces. I believe it is a big issue that needs to be handled carefully.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...320527554.html

[Old Dog]

IRFU AGM yesterday discussed "inevitable changes in the Heineken Cup structure", are have identified these as a "key risk" to the organisation's finances.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...320527554.html

"

A figure of €300,000 was spent by the IRFU contesting the free-to-air issue television rights issue suggested by former minister for communications Eamon Ryan."

Unsurprisingly, the Green Scum's contribution to Irish Rugby while in government is in the 'costs' column. Bearing in mind Dan the Boil's objection to the redevelopment of Musgrave Park, there seem to be some pretty good reasons for Irish rugby lovers to vote NO to the Greens.

[masterchief]

"

A figure of €300,000 was spent by the IRFU contesting the free-to-air issue television rights issue suggested by former minister for communications Eamon Ryan."

Unsurprisingly, the Green Scum's contribution to Irish Rugby while in government is in the 'costs' column. Bearing in mind Dan the Boil's objection to the redevelopment of Musgrave Park, there seem to be some pretty good reasons for Irish rugby lovers to vote NO to the Greens.

I wasn't aware of DB's objections to Muzzer, what was the gist of them?

[lahinch_lass]

I wasn't aware of DB's objections to Muzzer, what was the gist of them?

he didn't want his sunday lunch disturbed by the sound of building works... or some other such similar whinge to that effect

[Point]

he didn't want his sunday lunch disturbed by the sound of building works... or some other such similar whinge to that effect

It might be a complete coincidence but ...... I can recall an objection letter on file with the planning application from residents, a Mr and Mrs BOYLE, and neither first name was Dan.