Earls targets centre this year

[McCloud]

Interesting comment by Penney on Earls and the 13 shirt.

Laulala tips Penney to bring back glory days
Thursday August 16 2012


Casey Laulala believes Rob Penney will bring success to Munster -- and he should know, having played under him for seven years in New Zealand.


Laulala and Penney enjoyed huge success under the red flag of Canterbury before the centre moved to Cardiff Blues.


And while Laulala was signed for Munster by the Tony McGahan coaching team, Laulala was delighted to link up with Penney again.


"It is just his positivity in all thoughts. Being with him in Canterbury, we had so much success with him. We always won the title or were runners-up, we always did well," said the 30-year-old former All Black.


"It is true I was excited, but I was more excited for the players here, that they were able to have that positive vibe going through the whole team.


"I don't know what it was like here before, but I do know that Rob will add so much value to this team because he added so much value to my rugby career."


Musgrave Park will see Laulala and fellow centre and new signing James Downey line out together for the first time tomorrow night. But the Samoan-born flyer has warned against early expectations being too high.


"You definitely have to play together in order to know the different traits each other has. Obviously James is a big boy and he can look after himself down that close channel and hopefully I can run off him and vice versa.


EXCITING


"It is an exciting time for myself and my family and I am looking forward to a good season. "It comes down to personal pride as well. My position is 13, I have played part-time 12 and part-time wing, but 13 is my primary position.


"For me to come here and play 13 is obviously massive. I just want to do well for myself and hopefully in that way I can contribute to the team and really solidify my position and be able to move forward from there."


But Laulala might not have it all his own way at outside-centre as Irish international Keith Earls has indicated his wish to feature there on numerous occasions. But Penney is keen to avoid any headaches and hopes to keep everyone happy.


"In my discussions with Keith, we've got the ability to manage his needs and the team's needs. Look, he's a dedicated, committed team person. He's made it very clear what his preference is and I respect that immensely," Penney said.


"What we'll endeavour to do is meet a majority of his needs within what the team's needs are and hopefully he can just embrace that and get on and play for this team as well as he can so that he can further his international aspirations down the track"


Irish Independent

[the plastic paddy]

That is management speak for Keith playing on the wing and liking it or lumping it.

[John123]

Fact. Sure why would they put him into a position where he's clearly not as good?

[jeepers]

Fact. Sure why would they put him into a position where he's clearly not as good?

Because a) Lauala will be gone in 2 years (and Earls as well if he wants to play centre internationally)
and b) it will block Zebo's progress (unless you think Dougie should be sidelined)?

I doubt if Laulala has done himself any favours by announcing this to the press, particularly as Penney is a former coach of his (though, more than likely he was asked a direct question as was Penney about Earls). What else could they say?

[Sketchy]

It will all come down to merit. I'm a huge advocate of Earls at 13 and like Jeepers want him there cos Ireland need him there as , much as Munster need someone there for the next 5 years. I don't think Penney will pick Laulala just cos he knows him or pick Earls cos he is from Munster. He will pick the best man for the job. May the best man win. It's what is best for Munster.

And who knows. Downey may not kick on and be the 12 we hope he will be. I hope we can produce a new lease of life in him but he is pushing on and his hands were never great. We could be needing another 12 to step up, and as far as I can see, Casey is the next best option. Could well be Casey 12 and Keith 13.

[Munsterboy]

Shock horror! We have two quality players competing for one position!

It's a good dilemma and I think Penney will handle it pretty easily. Keith (and Laulala for that matter) will play where they are picked and in fairness to both, neither has suggested they'll spit the dummy if they don't get to play 13.

[Cowboy]

I wouldnt let knock on effects from selection have any influence whatsoever in picking the team. The best 15 gets to be picked every week and thats all that matters, the Helen Lovejoying 'wont somebody think of X or Y, they'll be shunted out and wont develop!!!' is poppycock in my books. If you're good enough you'll get picked, if you trust your coaches to see you're good enough and X or Y isn't, then you'll have a happy camp.

Saying we cant pick him, because this other guy will get splinterarse, cant be picking a team like that

[Munsterboy]

I wouldnt let knock on effects from selection have any influence whatsoever in picking the team. The best 15 gets to be picked every week and thats all that matters, the Helen Lovejoying 'wont somebody think of X or Y, they'll be shunted out and wont develop!!!' is poppycock in my books. If you're good enough you'll get picked, if you trust your coaches to see you're good enough and X or Y isn't, then you'll have a happy camp.

Saying we cant pick him, because this other guy will get splinterarse, cant be picking a team like that

Nonsense. You absolutely have to think of development too. You can't just pick the best player for every single game. You need that player's eventual replacement to be ready when the time comes to step up.

Best team every time for the HEC perhaps but in the Rabo, it's all about rotation and testing and developing alternatives.

[HenryFitz]

I wouldnt let knock on effects from selection have any influence whatsoever in picking the team. The best 15 gets to be picked every week and thats all that matters, the Helen Lovejoying 'wont somebody think of X or Y, they'll be shunted out and wont develop!!!' is poppycock in my books. If you're good enough you'll get picked, if you trust your coaches to see you're good enough and X or Y isn't, then you'll have a happy camp.

Saying we cant pick him, because this other guy will get splinterarse, cant be picking a team like that

Munster rugby is effectively a ward of the IRFU. The IRFU pay the wages and Munster are under an obligation to consider the needs of the national team. Fine if the choice is between 2 Irish players, but when the choice is between an Irish international and a NZ international, the Irish international should be favoured. That is the whole point of professional rugby in Ireland, to provide experience and opportunity for Irish-qualified players. Otherwise, why would the IRFU bother propping up the loss-making provinces?

[Red October]

I don't give a flying fcuk which of them plays 13 and which of them doesn't, so long as both are fit, in form and providing Penney with a bit of a headache, then it's all good.

I do give more than a flying fiddler's about how our pack plays this year and what our halves will be and how they will do.

Who our 13 is is about as relevant as whether you have two ply or three ply toilet paper after you've just bolted back a feed of points on an empty stomach; when Job 1 is making sure you manage to get the kecks off before you throw yourself on the porcelain.

The pack lads. The pack and what we do with it.

[Cowboy]

Nonsense. You absolutely have to think of development too. You can't just pick the best player for every single game. You need that player's eventual replacement to be ready when the time comes to step up.

Best team every time for the HEC perhaps but in the Rabo, it's all about rotation and testing and developing alternatives.

And with player restrictions already in place Penney will be given reduced player numbers to pick from anyway, i suppose I don't subscribe to the notion of 'making room' for youngsters so they can develop. If they're good enough they'll get picked, if we pick the best 15 available in every game we'll see these kids appear anyway.

[Sketchy]

And with player restrictions already in place Penney will be given reduced player numbers to pick from anyway, i suppose I don't subscribe to the notion of 'making room' for youngsters so they can develop. If they're good enough they'll get picked, if we pick the best 15 available in every game we'll see these kids appear anyway.

I think that was our downfall through our major period of dominance in the past. We went the strongest 15 every week to the detriment of the younger guys coming through. Look at D. Ryan for example. Quality player but is only breaking through at the age of 28. We have to rotate when possible. But it is important to let any younglads play with as strong a team as possible. Throwing them out all together at the one time and taking a hiding isn't best practice. One or two very often is the way to do it. That way a number of our first team still plays but our younger lads get to put their hands up. Hate to compare to Leinster but unfortunately they are the benchmark at the moment. They use the Rabo very very well to keep their young boys gaining invaluable experience. If we leave it to "if they are good enough they will break through", the only lads that'll break through are the Keith Earls of this world, while the D. Ryan's go nowhere fast.

[Cowboy]

I think that was our downfall through our major period of dominance in the past. We went the strongest 15 every week to the detriment of the younger guys coming through. Look at D. Ryan for example. Quality player but is only breaking through at the age of 28. We have to rotate when possible. But it is important to let any younglads play with as strong a team as possible. Throwing them out all together at the one time and taking a hiding isn't best practice. One or two very often is the way to do it. That way a number of our first team still plays but our younger lads get to put their hands up. Hate to compare to Leinster but unfortunately they are the benchmark at the moment. They use the Rabo very very well to keep their young boys gaining invaluable experience. If we leave it to "if they are good enough they will break through", the only lads that'll break through are the Keith Earls of this world, while the D. Ryan's go nowhere fast.

I think I'm making a ****e point of getting my thoughts across. It was the notion that we can't pick Earls here or there because Zebo won't develop was where I thought we'd be making a mistake. It's Zebos job to earn his jersey and hold onto it. If he's not as good a winger as Earls or Dougie then he knows what to do.

I agree with rotation and I also agree with sprinkling in the kids from time to time. But when it comes to Leinster I'd view things differently, they never ever send out experimental or junior sides, invariably Schmidt manages to pick the best 15 that is available to him on that weekend.

[Sketchy]

I think I'm making a ****e point of getting my thoughts across. It was the notion that we can't pick Earls here or there because Zebo won't develop was where I thought we'd be making a mistake. It's Zebos job to earn his jersey and hold onto it. If he's not as good a winger as Earls or Dougie then he knows what to do.

I agree with rotation and I also agree with sprinkling in the kids from time to time. But when it comes to Leinster I'd view things differently, they never ever send out experimental or junior sides, invariably Schmidt manages to pick the best 15 that is available to him on that weekend.

Ya, I think for our must win Rabo games and Heineken games we should go with the best 15 no matter what. We need to get the confidence back that comes with being very difficult to beat. But playing the Italian teams, or the weaker Scot or Welsh sides at home, we should be able to afford to let the Sean Scanlons and Luke O'Deas stretch their legs. And the likes of Hayes and Foley in the 2nd row. DOC 2.0 thrived under the injuries sustained to our backrow and even POM developed earlier than he would have had Wally, Leamy and Ronan not suffered long-term/career ending injuries. Lets hope we don't get those injuries again, but lets make sure that our younger lads don't lose any potential experience as a result. We fell down in this area on the past. And thankfully Penney seems to be the man to juggle youth with experience.

[joconnell]

That kind of creates a two tier setup though, if you've got 15 front line players and 15 second players, the second players are always going to look worse by not having the experience around them. For all games over the course of the season it might be better to have 13 first choice players and 2 fringe players - one in the pack, one in the backs and gradually chop and change these each time so that every second tier player doesn't have the players around them as an excuse for not showing their best. Ideally what'd happen is you'd find two players had a different style of playing - for example a faster flanker versus a piano shifter and rather than having a first or second choice player you'd look at the type of game you wanted to play against a particular team and choose players accordingly. Ideally there'd be no first or second team, just a system that everyone plays to so that if someone slots in to a new combination, the players around them have the same mentality that they're used to in training.

[Ratbastard]

Fact. Sure why would they put him into a position where he's clearly not as good?

McGahan did it often enough.

[Sketchy]

McGahan did it often enough.

Our backline was a shambles at the best of time under McGahan/Holland. And while I have huge gra for Mafi, he was a shadow of himself after Tipoki left, and failed to link with his outside backs. What did you make of Earls in the 6 Nations gone by? (Genuine question)

[Cowboy]

That kind of creates a two tier setup though, if you've got 15 front line players and 15 second players, the second players are always going to look worse by not having the experience around them. For all games over the course of the season it might be better to have 13 first choice players and 2 fringe players - one in the pack, one in the backs and gradually chop and change these each time so that every second tier player doesn't have the players around them as an excuse for not showing their best. Ideally what'd happen is you'd find two players had a different style of playing - for example a faster flanker versus a piano shifter and rather than having a first or second choice player you'd look at the type of game you wanted to play against a particular team and choose players accordingly. Ideally there'd be no first or second team, just a system that everyone plays to so that if someone slots in to a new combination, the players around them have the same mentality that they're used to in training.

My thoughts exactly.

[scotscor]

Its the 13 jersey, for feck sake two lads competing for it, its likely to go the way of 2006 and we have a rake of injuries in that one position. 13 players played at outside centre for munster that season. If they are both fit for the season I'd be happy.

[Sketchy]

Its the 13 jersey, for feck sake two lads competing for it, its likely to go the way of 2006 and we have a rake of injuries in that one position. 13 players played at outside centre for munster that season. If they are both fit for the season I'd be happy.

Jesus, there is a question for 'Mastermind'... "name them".

[B.A.]

Jesus, there is a question for 'Mastermind'... "name them".

Barry Murphy, Cullen, John Kelly, Tomas O'Leary, Halstead??, Lawlor??

[scotscor]

We still had henderson there. Denis leamy, english league player with no legs and an Irish name - Gary Connolly, I think Champayne played there at least once.
Pretty sure David Wallace only played on the wing that year same with the other man with no legs Anton Pitout.
Possibly Manning or Burke.
I said outside centre to include those players who played there within a game due to injury to the nominated 13. But I remember counting it around the time and getting thirteen

[scotscor]

Mike Mullins and jeremy manning (I think) Possibly paul devlin as well.
That would make thirteen:
kelly
hendo
mullins
Murphy
Cullen
Payne
TOL
Leamy
Halstead
Lawlor
Connolly
Manning
Devlin

Not positive of Manning or Devlin so may have been two others, but Devlin is down as Centre/wing and played a couple of times in 05//06 in the league