But he isn't a scapegoat, bosh, he was one of the 3 or 4 central figures responsible for what happened. Neary is another along with Cowen and Ahern. That he may be the only one to go before the courts isn't a reason not to go after him. If nothing else, he would provide a neat "encouragement pour les autres", if jailed.Originally Posted by bosh12
Bosh hasn't a rashers, never did, he thought buying property was a great idea in 2008/9. In Boshs world noone is responsible; Just because the regulator didn't do his job doesn't mean Fitzpatrick should get away with acting the bollix.
Fitzpatrick deserves to go to jail, he was wholly irresponsible for some shocking bank dealings. The state are building a case against him & he will go down.
As an aside, he was party responsible for the other banks lowering their thresholds due to shareholders demands. The other banks have to take responsibility but he caused untold damage. Without that one guy the country would be in a much better position.
The only thing lance is on is his bike 6 hours a day, busting his ass, what are you on?
Yawn. Might want to check your quotes again (and defo dates) but I m happy enough with what I said at the time. Family homes in parts of Dublin were of good value at the time (and still are) if you are buying at 3/4 times salary. Indeed, anyone who lives in Dublin will know that there is huge demand from couples in late 20s early 30s in specific areas in Dublin. That is completely irrelevant anyway to this arguement, and merely just you throwing fat head in for a giggle before your pre-sleep handshandy.
Exhibit 1 -Tobyglen
I lent loads of money to a fella earning 25k to buy a house in Leitrim for 900k because big bad Seanie was lending money. Any CEO who makes the argument you are spinning is an idiot. And any shareholder who buys that argument is a bigger idiot.
The country would be in a better position - pretty vague. Both the banks, the Government and the individuals in this state were in on one big pyramid scheme, and very few were intelligent enough to see it for what it was. That would have happened if there wa Seanie of no Seanie. Not just Ireland by the way, most of the western world. Seanie isnt to blame for the vote buying social welfare budgetary policy of the 2000 to 2007 period. (increase of 60odd% between 2002 and 2007, cost of living increase over same period 40%).
Dont get me wrong, if he has broken the law, he goes to jail. But there is so much evidence that the regulator was fully aware of all that was going on (the Neery 'Fair play to you Willie' quote springs to mind), this is all political at this stage.
Last edited by bosh12; 25th-July-2012 at 07:40.
Charged with 'breeches' of company law?
Be interesting to see his barrister's briefs.
well looka
Well his Solicitor is Michael Staines
I'm not surprised.
well looka
Oh, ver' well played, sir!
Vorsprung durch Pfennig.
Does that put the skids on his defense?
I am one of the 5 clowns woo hoo
Tearing the arse out of this now
I am the million man.
well looka
Your right time to turn the other cheek
I am one of the 5 clowns woo hoo
Surely that pen is broken now........
He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something.
too subtle..?
He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something.
Probably too ****e cake old buddy.
How could a third director of a company charged in connection with a breach of Section 60 in two days be deemed a scapegoat on an individual level? Why weren't Willie McAteer and Patrick Whelan scapegoats? Not famous enough, no?
A few directors have been charged in connection with the alleged provision of financial assistance for the purchase of its own shares by a company that went so horribly tits up it nearly broke the sodding European Union and we're supposed to believe one of them is being made a scapegoat?
One of your best Bosh, definitely.
Last edited by Jenta; 25th-July-2012 at 13:26.
Governments don't ask themselves "what can we do that is good for the people?". They ask themselves "how do we persuade people that what we want to do is good for them?".
As I said in my posts, if he broke the law, he should be charged and dealt with accordingly. In my view, the regulator was fully aware of everything going on in terms of Maple 10, Quinn dealings and IPBS transaction, and indeed approved it as Green Jersey warranted. There is evidence of this. What the regulator didnt know (mainly through incompetence) was the warehousing of loans and directors loans share purchases.
However, there is an attitude in Ireland that seems to blame everything on Anglo and Seanie, while ignoring 7 years of complete mis-management, crony politics, and an electorate drunk on leverage, social protection. Anglo/Seanie is the scape goat used by the banks for sh*t lending and by politicans for failed regulation and a failed economy. Anglo was a complete sh*t show of a bank, the only bank in the world probably close to it in terms of mess is Bank of Scotland Ireland (now closed and a significant pain in the arse for Lloyds) and Bankia in Spain. But if Anglo never existed, this country would still be in a mess, just not quite as big a mess.
He has been charged, if he broke the law he'll be convicted, and even if it does transpire that the FR was aware of Maple 10 I doubt it will prove much of a defense, especially given the FR was about as useful as Anne Frank's drum kit at the time.
Can't disagree with much in the rest of your post, except to say that 7 years is a colossal understatement.
Governments don't ask themselves "what can we do that is good for the people?". They ask themselves "how do we persuade people that what we want to do is good for them?".
That's just in your head, it's another phantom. Almost everyone is aware that there was a number of problems that caused this country to go bankrupt. Noone is just nailing Fitzpatrick but people want to see justice (for his alleged corruptions) done & right now the state are building a case against him & he could very well see jailtime. He "allegedly" broke the law on numerous occasions unlike others who were simply incompetent. Fitzpatrick was part of the problem along with Regulators, Government, the Irish citizens, EU banks etc. Every tom dick & harry knows this.
Last edited by Tobyglen; 25th-July-2012 at 16:59.
The only thing lance is on is his bike 6 hours a day, busting his ass, what are you on?
The competition between AIB and Anglo for property development deals was fierce and any developer worth his salt played the banks off each other, AIB had always been the dominant player in this area and were prepared to lend without their usual efficency to retain market share and stop the upstart Anglo from growing.
Both were lending to developers who were involved in overseas developments where the pair had little or no experience, USA and GB excluded, the securities required in their lendings were allowed to lax in chasing market share, both were more than capable of sidestepping the Regulator, who undoubtedly was part of the nod nod wink wink, what are you having Irish way.
The developers kept coming up with the deals/proposals which I believe allowed them to salt away funds at the front end as they kept all the balls juggling.
The low interest rates which came with the Euro were never really passed on as the whole property industry saw these drops as profit for them, so more and more people fanned the flames of build, build and fuppin build, how many posters can remember mortgage rates of around 20% per annum.
Busy day for Sean today.
rte.ie/news
Three former Anglo Irish Bank executives charged with unlawfully helping group of investors
Updated: 13:28, Monday, 8 October 2012
Three former senior executives of Anglo Irish Bank have been served with the books of evidence against them at the Dublin District Court.
The three former senior executives will appear at the next sitting of the Dublin Circuit Criminal Court
Three former senior executives of Anglo Irish Bank have been served with the books of evidence against them at Dublin District Court.
Former chairman and chief executive Seán FitzPatrick, 64, former finance director Willie McAteer, 61, and the bank's former managing director in Ireland Patrick Whelan, 50, appeared in court today.
They have been charged with unlawfully helping a group of investors, including six members of the Quinn family, to buy shares in Anglo Irish Bank in 2008.
All three were remanded on continuing bail to appear again at the next sitting of the Dublin Circuit Criminal Court.
*********************
rte.ie/news
FItzpatrick bankruptcy proceedings adjourned over prejudice issue
Updated: 13:25, Monday, 8 October 2012
An application by a court appointed official to question Sean Fitzpatrick in the High Court as part of bankruptcy proceedings has been adjourned.
Lawyers for Mr Fitzpatrick told the court there could be an issue of prejudice if he is examined on a particular issue.
In July, the High Court was told the official assignee wanted to examine Mr Fitzpatrick about the ownership of a large London office investment property.
Today had been set to fix a date for that examination.
However Ms Justice Elizabeth Dunne adjourned the matter for two weeks and asked Mr Fitzpatrick's legal team to lodge sworn statements setting out their submissions on the issue of prejudice.
The former Anglo Irish Bank chairman is estimated to have debts of €150m and assets of €47m.
He was declared bankrupt in July 2010.
4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election
"Frankfurts way or Labours way."
28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty
"A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."
rte.ie/news
Sean FitzPatrick bankruptcy action before High Court
Updated: 12:11, Monday, 22 October 2012
A solicitor for former Anglo Irish Bank chairman Sean FitzPatrick has asked the High Court not to go ahead with part of bankruptcy proceedings until the criminal case against him is over.
A High Court judge described as "bizarre and unusual" the fact that two different legal representatives appeared at the bankruptcy court on behalf of Mr FitzPatrick.
Ms Justice Eliabeth Dunne said she was concerned if Mr Fitzpatrick was giving the same instructions to both sets of legal representatives.
The comments were made when solicitor Michael Staines who is representing Mr Fitzpatrick in criminal proceedings, told the bankruptcy court it should not proceed with questioning him on a particular issue.
Mr Staines said it was possible the DPP would also ask the court to adjourn the case.
The application by a court appointed official to question Sean FitzPatrick in the High Court as part of bankruptcy proceedings had been adjourned to allow statements to be submitted to the court.
In July the High Court was told the official assignee wanted to examine Mr Fitzpatrick about the ownership of a large London office investment property.
Ms Justice Elizabeth Dunne adjourned the matter for two weeks and asked Mr. Fitzpatrick's legal team to lodge sworn statements setting out their submissions on the issue of prejudice. Today she noted that had still not been done.
The former Anglo Irish Bank chairman is estimated to have debts of €150m and assets of €47m.
He was declared bankrupt in July 2010.
4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election
"Frankfurts way or Labours way."
28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty
"A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."
anyone care to translate that for us non legal eagles?
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain
Legal practioners doing a fine job on behalf of their bankrupt client?
I think of it as an attempt to use (exploit?) the dividing line between criminal and civil cases in which their client is a party.
There's far better educated posters than me hereabouts though.
Sent from my Commodore 64
Is he related to Seaman Stains
EB: \"It is said, Percy, that civilised man seeks out good and intelligent company, so by learned discourse he may rise above the savage and be closer to God\"
Percy: \"Yes, I\'ve heard that\"
EB: \"Personally, however, I like to start the day with a total dickhead, to remind me I\'m best\"
It's impressive that a bankrupt can afford 2 legal teams. Wonder who is paying for that?
4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election
"Frankfurts way or Labours way."
28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty
"A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."
whoever loses
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain
His wife maybe? She's still wealthy (got the house and half his pension fund rric).
Irish Examiner
FitzPatrick appears in Dublin Criminal Court
Friday, November 09, 2012 - 12:40 PM
Former Anglo Irish Bank boss Sean FitzPatrick has made his first appearance at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court.
With him in court were the former Anglo Finance Director Willie McAteer and former Managing Director of Anglo Ireland, Patrick Whelan.
All three are charged with providing unlawful financial assistance to members of the Quinn family and the so called Maple Ten of Irish investors in 2008 to enable them to buy shares in Anglo Irish Bank.
Judge Martin Nolan granted orders relating to witnesses and exhibits in the case before putting it back until January 23, when it will be mentioned before the court again.
4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election
"Frankfurts way or Labours way."
28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty
"A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."
irishtimes.com - Last Updated: Friday, December 21, 2012, 09:56
Seán FitzPatrick expected to be charged over Anglo Irish
CONOR LALLY, Crime Correspondent
Former Anglo Irish Bank chairman and chief executive Seán FitzPatrick is expected to appear in court today charged in connection with the criminal investigation into alleged wrongdoing at the collapsed bank.
He was arrested this morning by gardaí attached to the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement
He is being held at the Bridewell Garda station and is due to appear in court this morning charged with offences contrary to Section 197 of the Companies Act 1990.
It is the third time he has been arrested, though on previous occasions he has been question in Garda stations in Co Wicklow close to his home on Greystones.
His detention this morning follows a period of intense contacts between the Garda investigating Anglo and the DPP as to whether sufficient evidence had been gathered to criminally charge former key personnel at the bank, including Mr FitzPatrick.
Mr FitzPatrick was charged last July with 16 offences relating to loans provided by Anglo in July 2008. If convicted he faces up to five years in prison on each charge.
Gardaí and the corporate enforcement agency are investigating three issues at Anglo:
* The concealment of loans owing by Mr FitzPatrick which were transferred off the books of Anglo using short-term loans from Irish Nationwide Building Society over an eight-year period;
* The lodgement of €7.45 billion in short-term deposits by Irish Life and Permanent into Anglo over its financial year-end in September 2008;
* The so-called golden circle share transaction in which 10 long-standing clients of Anglo purchased a 10 per cent stake in the bank – using loans from the bank – from businessman Seán Quinn.
4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election
"Frankfurts way or Labours way."
28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty
"A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."
irishtimes.com - Last Updated: Friday, December 21, 2012, 12:06
Former Anglo chairman Seán FitzPatrick charged
STEVEN CARROLL
Former Anglo Irish Bank chairman and chief executive Seán FitzPatrick has appeared in court charged in connection with the criminal investigation into alleged wrongdoing at the collapsed bank.
Mr FitzPatrick (64) was charged with knowingly or recklessly making a false or a misleading statement to auditors of the bank on twelve occasions between 2002 and 2007.
Mt FitzPatrick, who was arrested by appointment this morning by gardaí, could face penalties on indictment of a fine of up to €12,697 and he could face a maximum sentence of up to 5 years imprisonment.
Detective Inspector Raymond Kavanagh, who on secondment to the office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement, gave details of Mr FitzPatrick’s arrest and caution.
He said that when each of the charges were put to Mr Fitzpatrick he replied “no comment”.
Mr FitzPatrick has been released on bail on a bond of €1,000.
Det Inspector Kavanagh said he had no objection to bail so long as Mr FitzPatrick resided at his home address, signs once a week at Irishtown Garda Station and gives notice to the Garda of any travel plans.
Judge Michael Walsh said that Mr FitzPatrick would appear again in court on the 1st of March next when he would be served with the book of evidence.
4 Feb 2011 - Gilmore on the General Election
"Frankfurts way or Labours way."
28 Feb 2012 - Gilmore on a yes vote for the fiscal treaty
"A vote for economic stability and a vote for economic recovery."
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote