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  1. #331
    To understand why, we first need to go through a quirk of the licensing process. Drugs do not simply come on to the market for use in all medical conditions: for any specific use of any drug, in any specific disease, you need a separate marketing authorisation. So a drug might be licensed to treat ovarian cancer, for example, but not breast cancer. That doesn't mean the drug doesn't work in breast cancer. There might well be some evidence that it's great for treating that disease, too, but maybe the company hasn't gone to the trouble and expense of getting a formal marketing authorisation for that specific use. Doctors can still go ahead and prescribe it for breast cancer, if they want, because the drug is available for prescription, it probably works, and there are boxes of it sitting in pharmacies waiting to go out. In this situation, the doctor will be prescribing the drug legally, but "off-label".
    Now, it turns out that the use of a drug in children is treated as a separate marketing authorisation from its use in adults. This makes sense in many cases, because children can respond to drugs in very different ways and so research needs to be done in children separately. But getting a licence for a specific use is an arduous business, requiring lots of paperwork and some specific studies. Often, this will be so expensive that companies will not bother to get a licence specifically to market a drug for use in children, because that market is usually much smaller.
    So it is not unusual for a drug to be licensed for use in adults but then prescribed for children. Regulators have recognised that this is a problem, so recently they have started to offer incentives for companies to conduct more research and formally seek these licences.
    When GlaxoSmithKline applied for a marketing authorisation in children for paroxetine, an extraordinary situation came to light, triggering the longest investigation in the history of UK drugs regulation. Between 1994 and 2002, GSK conducted nine trials of paroxetine in children. The first two failed to show any benefit, but the company made no attempt to inform anyone of this by changing the "drug label" that is sent to all doctors and patients. In fact, after these trials were completed, an internal company management document stated: "It would be commercially unacceptable to include a statement that efficacy had not been demonstrated, as this would undermine the profile of paroxetine." In the year after this secret internal memo, 32,000 prescriptions were issued to children for paroxetine in the UK alone: so, while the company knew the drug didn't work in children, it was in no hurry to tell doctors that, despite knowing that large numbers of children were taking it. More trials were conducted over the coming years – nine in total – and none showed that the drug was effective at treating depression in children.
    It gets much worse than that. These children weren't simply receiving a drug that the company knew to be ineffective for them; they were also being exposed to side-effects. This should be self-evident, since any effective treatment will have some side-effects, and doctors factor this in, alongside the benefits (which in this case were nonexistent). But nobody knew how bad these side-effects were, because the company didn't tell doctors, or patients, or even the regulator about the worrying safety data from its trials. This was because of a loophole: you have to tell the regulator only about side-effects reported in studies looking at the specific uses for which the drug has a marketing authorisation. Because the use of paroxetine in children was "off-label", GSK had no legal obligation to tell anyone about what it had found.
    People had worried for a long time that paroxetine might increase the risk of suicide, though that is quite a difficult side-effect to detect in an antidepressant. In February 2003, GSK spontaneously sent the MHRA a package of information on the risk of suicide on paroxetine, containing some analyses done in 2002 from adverse-event data in trials the company had held, going back a decade. This analysis showed that there was no increased risk of suicide. But it was misleading: although it was unclear at the time, data from trials in children had been mixed in with data from trials in adults, which had vastly greater numbers of participants. As a result, any sign of increased suicide risk among children on paroxetine had been completely diluted away.
    Later in 2003, GSK had a meeting with the MHRA to discuss another issue involving paroxetine. At the end of this meeting, the GSK representatives gave out a briefing document, explaining that the company was planning to apply later that year for a specific marketing authorisation to use paroxetine in children. They mentioned, while handing out the document, that the MHRA might wish to bear in mind a safety concern the company had noted: an increased risk of suicide among children with depression who received paroxetine, compared with those on dummy placebo pills.
    This was vitally important side-effect data, being presented, after an astonishing delay, casually, through an entirely inappropriate and unofficial channel. Although the data was given to completely the wrong team, the MHRA staff present at this meeting had the wit to spot that this was an important new problem. A flurry of activity followed: analyses were done, and within one month a letter was sent to all doctors advising them not to prescribe paroxetine to patients under the age of 18.
    How is it possible that our systems for getting data from companies are so poor, they can simply withhold vitally important information showing that a drug is not only ineffective, but actively dangerous? Because the regulations contain ridiculous loopholes, and it's dismal to see how GSK cheerfully exploited them: when the investigation was published in 2008, it concluded that what the company had done – withholding important data about safety and effectiveness that doctors and patients clearly needed to see – was plainly unethical, and put children around the world at risk; but our laws are so weak that GSK could not be charged with any crime.
    After this episode, the MHRA and EU changed some of their regulations, though not adequately. They created an obligation for companies to hand over safety data for uses of a drug outside its marketing authorisation; but ridiculously, for example, trials conducted outside the EU were still exempt. Some of the trials GSK conducted were published in part, but that is obviously not enough: we already know that if we see only a biased sample of the data, we are misled. But we also need all the data for the more simple reason that we need lots of data: safety signals are often weak, subtle and difficult to detect. In the case of paroxetine, the dangers became apparent only when the adverse events from all of the trials were pooled and analysed together.
    That leads us to the second obvious flaw in the current system: the results of these trials are given in secret to the regulator, which then sits and quietly makes a decision. This is the opposite of science, which is reliable only because everyone shows their working, explains how they know that something is effective or safe, shares their methods and results, and allows others to decide if they agree with the way in which the data was processed and analysed. Yet for the safety and efficacy of drugs, we allow it to happen behind closed doors, because drug companies have decided that they want to share their trial results discretely with the regulators. So the most important job in evidence-based medicine is carried out alone and in secret. And regulators are not infallible, as we shall see.
    Rosiglitazone was first marketed in 1999. In that first year, Dr John Buse from the University of North Carolina discussed an increased risk of heart problems at a pair of academic meetings. The drug's manufacturer, GSK, made direct contact in an attempt to silence him, then moved on to his head of department. Buse felt pressured to sign various legal documents. To cut a long story short, after wading through documents for several months, in 2007 the US Senate committee on finance released a report describing the treatment of Buse as "intimidation".

    (continues below)
    Never mind perception because it isn’t real. It’s only what people think. Go out and make them think something else.

    - Alan Quinlan on believing in yourself

  2. #332
    But we are more concerned with the safety and efficacy data. In 2003 the Uppsala drug monitoring group of the World Health Organisation contacted GSK about an unusually large number of spontaneous reports associating rosiglitazone with heart problems. GSK conducted two internal meta-analyses of its own data on this, in 2005 and 2006. These showed that the risk was real, but although both GSK and the FDA had these results, neither made any public statement about them, and they were not published until 2008.
    During this delay, vast numbers of patients were exposed to the drug, but doctors and patients learned about this serious problem only in 2007, when cardiologist Professor Steve Nissen and colleagues published a landmark meta-analysis. This showed a 43% increase in the risk of heart problems in patients on rosiglitazone. Since people with diabetes are already at increased risk of heart problems, and the whole point of treating diabetes is to reduce this risk, that finding was big potatoes. Nissen's findings were confirmed in later work, and in 2010 the drug was either taken off the market or restricted, all around the world.
    Now, my argument is not that this drug should have been banned sooner because, as perverse as it sounds, doctors do often need inferior drugs for use as a last resort. For example, a patient may develop idiosyncratic side-effects on the most effective pills and be unable to take them any longer. Once this has happened, it may be worth trying a less effective drug if it is at least better than nothing.
    The concern is that these discussions happened with the data locked behind closed doors, visible only to regulators. In fact, Nissen's analysis could only be done at all because of a very unusual court judgment. In 2004, when GSK was caught out withholding data showing evidence of serious side-effects from paroxetine in children, their bad behaviour resulted in a US court case over allegations of fraud, the settlement of which, alongside a significant payout, required GSK to commit to posting clinical trial results on a public website.
    Nissen used the rosiglitazone data, when it became available, and found worrying signs of harm, which they then published to doctors – something the regulators had never done, despite having the information years earlier. If this information had all been freely available from the start, regulators might have felt a little more anxious about their decisions but, crucially, doctors and patients could have disagreed with them and made informed choices. This is why we need wider access to all trial reports, for all medicines.
    Missing data poisons the well for everybody. If proper trials are never done, if trials with negative results are withheld, then we simply cannot know the true effects of the treatments we use. Evidence in medicine is not an abstract academic preoccupation. When we are fed bad data, we make the wrong decisions, inflicting unnecessary pain and suffering, and death, on people just like us.

    • This is an edited extract from Bad Pharma, by Ben Goldacre, published next week by Fourth Estate at £13.99. To order a copy for £11.19, including UK mainland p&p, call 0330 333 6846, or go to guardian.co.uk/bookshop.
    Never mind perception because it isn’t real. It’s only what people think. Go out and make them think something else.

    - Alan Quinlan on believing in yourself

  3. #333
    Great Chamberlain of the Red Empire sewa's Avatar
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    Coincidentally enough I am siting here wearing my Rosi 3 rugby top the team members got for setting up stage 3 Rosiglitazone manufacture, I used to have a similar one for Paroxetine, currently just finishing a project on the worlds best known statin, the biggest blockbuster drug in a generation, v.small industry pharma
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  4. #334
    Watching the horizon superbug program. Anyone else a bit disturbed by Harvard creating superbugs? Ok it might be necessary but still can't help thinking were a lab accident away from a plague

  5. #335

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  7. #336
    Leader of the Red Hordes LuckyDucker's Avatar
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    NASA Spacecraft Records 'Earthsong'

    Oct. 1, 2012: In space, they say, no one can hear you scream.

    Nobody ever said anything about singing, though. A NASA spacecraft has just beamed back a beautiful song sung by our own planet.

    "It's called chorus," explains Craig Kletzing of the University of Iowa. "This is one of the clearest examples we've ever heard."

    Play the audio

    Chorus is an electromagnetic phenomenon caused by plasma waves in Earth's radiation belts. For years, ham radio operators on Earth have been listening to them from afar. Now, NASA's twin Radiation Belt Storm Probes are traveling through the region of space where chorus actually comes from--and the recordings are out of this world.

    Continued - http://science.nasa.gov/science-news...sep_earthsong/

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  9. #337
    I like what he said about the placebo effect.
    The term itself has acquired perjorative connotations, implying the recipient is deluded.

    I read a report some time ago describing a study done on GP patients. It found that 90% presented vague complaints (tired/headaches/aches etc) which could not easily be precisely diagnosed.
    But the GP will almost always prescribe some medication as the patient expects that - mostly antibiotics, painkillers and such like.
    So, the double blind study was done on these 90%. Some were given the routine medications and the others the placebo.

    Shockingly, the study found that those with the placebos invariably got better quicker.
    One conclusion is that while the placebo effect was obviously working on both groups, the genuinely medicated patients were being hampered in their recovery by the medicines they were taking.
    well looka

  10. #338
    Moderator Drick's Avatar
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    Superman-strength bacteria produce gold

    EAST LANSING, Mich. — At a time when the value of gold has reached an all-time high, Michigan State University researchers have discovered a bacterium’s ability to withstand incredible amounts of toxicity is key to creating 24-karat gold.
    “Microbial alchemy is what we’re doing – transforming gold from something that has no value into a solid, precious metal that’s valuable,” said Kazem Kashefi, assistant professor of microbiology and molecular genetics.
    He and Adam Brown, associate professor of electronic art and intermedia, found the metal-tolerant bacteria Cupriavidus metallidurans can grow on massive concentrations of gold chloride – or liquid gold, a toxic chemical compound found in nature.
    In fact, the bacteria are at least 25 times stronger than previously reported among scientists, the researchers determined in their art installation, “The Great Work of the Metal Lover,” which uses a combination of biotechnology, art and alchemy to turn liquid gold into 24-karat gold. The artwork contains a portable laboratory made of 24-karat gold-plated hardware, a glass bioreactor and the bacteria, a combination that produces gold in front of an audience.
    Brown and Kashefi fed the bacteria unprecedented amounts of gold chloride, mimicking the process they believe happens in nature. In about a week, the bacteria transformed the toxins and produced a gold nugget.

    more - http://news.msu.edu/story/superman-s...produces-gold/


  11. #339
    Leader of the Red Hordes LuckyDucker's Avatar
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    Scientists planning $1 billion mission to drill into the Earth’s mantle
    http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1...-earths-mantle

  12. #340
    My name is Mandy and I live with my mom! i_like_cake's Avatar
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    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...324777055.html

    I've done the maths: there are too few women in science

    He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something.

  13. #341
    http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/...m-georgia.html



    Following on from Rep Todd Akin and his legitimate rape and female defences......next up is Rep Paul Broun ....

    bear in mind when you read this...this guy has a medical degree, a degree in chemistry and sits on the House Representatives Science Committee.
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  14. #342
    Admiral of the Fleet Valencia's Avatar
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    Science thread

    Incredible really, Evolution a lie from the pit of hell
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  15. #343
    Leader of the Red Hordes Waterfordlad's Avatar
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    Seems reasonable
    I haven't taken my Christmas lights down. They look so nice on the pumpkin

  16. #344
    Leader of the Red Hordes DONC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotreDameRFC View Post
    http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/...m-georgia.html



    Following on from Rep Todd Akin and his legitimate rape and female defences......next up is Rep Paul Broun ....

    bear in mind when you read this...this guy has a medical degree, a degree in chemistry and sits on the House Representatives Science Committee.
    Thats really scary.

    Of course there are no doubt Muslims with similar extremist views in positions of influence in the middle east. There will never be another major war we are as safe as houses.
    I am one of the 5 clowns woo hoo

  17. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by DONC View Post
    Thats really scary.

    Of course there are no doubt Muslims with similar extremist views in positions of influence in the middle east. There will never be another major war we are as safe as houses.
    That's a relief. I was a tad worried a global nuclear holocaust might kick off.
    well looka

  18. #346
    Munster Berserker Hellboy's Avatar
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    Baumgartner jump live
    Red Bull Stratos - Free fall from the edge of Space.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/redbull?v=vkJ5ItzEq3M

    Maybe Paul Broun could jump out a capsule too, to test his "pit from hell" theories by himself.

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  20. #347
    Leader of the Red Hordes DONC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
    Baumgartner jump live
    Red Bull Stratos - Free fall from the edge of Space.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/redbull?v=vkJ5ItzEq3M

    Maybe Paul Broun could jump out a capsule too, to test his "pit from hell" theories by himself.
    Good God got dizzy looking at the mock up.
    I am one of the 5 clowns woo hoo

  21. #348
    How's the balloon going to get back ffs?
    well looka

  22. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by DONC View Post
    Good God got dizzy looking at the mock up.
    Dizzy nearly threw up when I saw this pic http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19860249

    Man must be a total nutter.
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  23. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
    Baumgartner jump live
    Red Bull Stratos - Free fall from the edge of Space.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/redbull?v=vkJ5ItzEq3M

    Maybe Paul Broun could jump out a capsule too, to test his "pit from hell" theories by himself.
    Going live in 5 mins. Apparently.

  24. #351
    Now delayed till 3pm due to weather, according to the website.
    Never mind perception because it isn’t real. It’s only what people think. Go out and make them think something else.

    - Alan Quinlan on believing in yourself

  25. #352
    My name is Mandy and I live with my mom! i_like_cake's Avatar
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    Probably due to him peeing in his pants.... what a nutter...
    He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something.

  26. #353
    Leader of the Red Hordes Waterfordlad's Avatar
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    Earliest launch time 17.30 GMT now due to weather conditions
    I haven't taken my Christmas lights down. They look so nice on the pumpkin

  27. #354
    Balloon seems to be ascending........




    What follows is nsfw, inappropriate, but somehow sprang to mind.....I hope I don't have to edit this later.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZEEgIti8sM

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  29. #355
    My name is Mandy and I live with my mom! i_like_cake's Avatar
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    Is that just a weather balloon though....

    no ascent speed, ground speed altitude given yet......



    EDIT... Felix is getting ready to launch - crew is laying out balloon.
    Last edited by i_like_cake; 9th-October-2012 at 15:56.
    He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something.

  30. #356
    Launch aborted due to gusty winds.

  31. #357
    My name is Mandy and I live with my mom! i_like_cake's Avatar
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    Superconductivity link...

    http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/20...um-levitation/

    the embedded youtube video gets interesting at 1m11s...
    He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something.

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  33. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
    Baumgartner jump live
    Red Bull Stratos - Free fall from the edge of Space.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/redbull?v=vkJ5ItzEq3M

    Maybe Paul Broun could jump out a capsule too, to test his "pit from hell" theories by himself.
    Next attempt coming up shortly - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=MrIxH6DToXQ

    EDIT - brief audio announcement that winds at the full inflated height of the balloon (700 feet) have been dropping and that the launch should be going ahead by or before 5pm our time. The balloon looks to be fully inflated and isn't moving around at all, so this should be it. Best to keep the youtube tab open in the background so you don't miss the start.
    Never mind perception because it isn’t real. It’s only what people think. Go out and make them think something else.

    - Alan Quinlan on believing in yourself

  34. #359
    Countdown has started!

    EDIT - ba$tards, no it hasn't. Just a "suspense-building" piece of video. Still seems to be going ahead though.
    Never mind perception because it isn’t real. It’s only what people think. Go out and make them think something else.

    - Alan Quinlan on believing in yourself

  35. #360
    IT'S AIRBORNE!! Brilliant ...
    Never mind perception because it isn’t real. It’s only what people think. Go out and make them think something else.

    - Alan Quinlan on believing in yourself

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