Armstrong vs Kimmage

[bazzyg]

the money is in the cheating and the testers are always far enough behind for the best funded cheats to beat them.

Yes, dopers are always ahead, the Dr to the main cheats of the last 20 years learned from the inside in various Italian sporting federations, once he saw how the system worked he went outside and stayed just enough ahead.

I have no links but vaguely recall at one time (early 90's) he was involved in tests to check for newer drugs that were on the market. He was being paid by dopers on one side and when he had a newer drug, he would help authorities find a test for an older one, all the time staying on the inside of organisations to know where they were in their fight to catch him/them.

As an aside, I always felt Walsh's crusade has a slight history from his great biography on Kelly which passed over the drugs thing completely.

[Evil Omer]

I genuinely think if Armstrong hadn't overdone it on the profile etc no one would have cared. Let's be honest, TdF has been a drug riddled competition for so long no one really pays it much attention any more. When you look at the link posted, with the tables of the top placed riders and how many failed tests, it's only really Armstrong that's attracted the really big, cross sport coverage. I think people just expect it now. Same with sprinters and the power athletes and the strong man competitions. Many now just accept it's tainted and watch it as a competition between tainted competitors. It's sad but that's what many of the competitors have brought about.

[i_like_cake]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19433990

The United States Anti-Doping Agency (Usada) is preparing to reveal its evidence against Lance Armstrong.
Usada has banned the American cyclist for life, stripping him of his record-breaking seven Tour de France titles.
The move followed Armstrong's refusal to answer charges that he was the "ring-leader" of a doping conspiracy.
Armstrong says he is innocent and that only the sport's governing body, the International Cycling Union (UCI), has the power to sanction him.
The background

Cycling's global governing body, the International Cycling Union (UCI), has challenged Usada's jurisdiction over doping in the sport, and has the option of appealing against the ruling to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.
It says it will not take any action or comment further until it has received evidence from Usada explaining why Armstrong must lose his titles. He won the Tour de France seven years in a row from 1999. He retired from cycling in 2005 but returned to the sport between 2009 and 2012.
Tour de France organisers said they would wait for the outcome of any stand-off between Usada and the UCI before taking action.




With the UCI giving the impression that it agrees with Armstrong, Usada is under pressure to provide more details of its case.
The BBC understands Usada would have done so already but for two reasons:

• Armstrong was charged along with three doctors, a coach, and US Postal team manager Johan Bruyneel in June - and proceedings are continuing against three of them;
• The agency has been concerned that its witnesses have to be protected from outside influence.

But Usada is aware of the need to counter Armstrong's claims it has gone beyond its jurisdiction with an investigation that is an "unconstitutional witch hunt", based on "corrupt inducements" to other riders.
The Colorado-based agency is not overly concerned with his attacks, but realises it must do more to convince a divided public it has compelling, and ultimately damning, evidence against one of the world's most famous sportsmen.
The bulk of that evidence is testimony from at least a dozen of his former team-mates and associates, but it is not, as has been reported, evidence gathered during the federal investigation into allegations of systematic doping at the US Postal Service cycling team.



...
...
...
...
...
and lots more.,..

[lahinch_lass]

It would be good for cycling if all this 'evidence' was released - although I am far from happy about how much of it was obtained. I always amazed how closed cycling, with all the people involved it crazy how long it takes for this stuff to filter out.

Interesting factoid about the Seoul 100m - wonder how many other sportsmen will be retrospectively tested ?

It's official policy now from WADA that samples will be kept for a number of years to allow retrospective testing as new tests are developed for new drugs that the authorities may not have been aware of at the time.

there was a new test announced for HGH right before the olympics this year, for the first time they can actually distinguish between the naturally occuring HGH & that which has been artificially introduced. I'd presume they'll use that test on samples from Beijing & various world championships in sports where that drug was of benefit to the athletes.

[MrsMcGahan]

Any possibility they could reexamine the sample from that Szabo who beat Sonia in the 5,000 metres?

[NotreDameRFC]

Any possibility they could reexamine the sample from that Szabo who beat Sonia in the 5,000 metres?

or those 3 Chinese women.....

[NotreDameRFC]

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor....html?page=all

Review of Tyler Hamilton book in his time with lance Armstrong on US postal team and its doping culture.

[FORWARD....]

Thank you for the link NDRFC (hope the head is ok after yesterday's double)
-well now we understand the white flag raised last week by Armstrong. This book sounds like a slow painful death for his cycling life story and exoneration for the few who have continued to state the sport was corrupt to the highest level.
I was struck by this quote in the article "The book’s power is in the collected details, all strung together in a story that is told with such clear-eyed conviction that you never doubt its veracity." That is exactly the feeling I had when I read Kimmage's book.

[munsterforever]

Are all Cyclists on the gear? Seriously...Is it impossible to compete at the highest level without some chicanery?

[sewa]

We would struggle on the chicanes without gears! Also MF as you know I am a superb athlete but what they do would frighten even someone of my undoubted stamina

[munsterforever]

I read somewhere that they have blood transfusions en all. feckin weird. powerade gets me up tountinna and back....ok so not at 60kph

[sewa]

Would they go out after work on a Thursday straight after work and then hit the city and still go to work on a Friday morning, seperates the men from the boys, bike or no bike

[NotreDameRFC]

interesting Hamilton and 8 fellow US Postal team members all support the book and gave evidence to Usada against LA.

whether lance likes it or not the mountain of sh1t has the left the peak and is tumbling towards liarville.

[Balla Boy]

Are all Cyclists on the gear? Seriously...Is it impossible to compete at the highest level without some chicanery?

A cycling nut I work with mentioned the other day (and I don't know enough to verify) that everyone who shared a Tour de France podium with Armstrong has subsequently been busted. That's across 7 wins. A pretty remarkable run rate if true.

Not only do they have blood transfusions - they are self administered.

I think the whole thing was rather more gallant when cheating consisted of hopping in the back of a citroen for a few miles when no one was looking.

[bazzyg]

Are all Cyclists on the gear? Seriously...Is it impossible to compete at the highest level without some chicanery?

My personal favourite was Michel Pollentier, I think it was one of Kelly's 1st tours and he was nothing short of a slave for him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Pollentier

There were some well known drug free cyclists in the late 80's early 90's who were competitive but not over any lenght of time.

[NotreDameRFC]

A cycling nut I work with mentioned the other day (and I don't know enough to verify) that everyone who shared a Tour de France podium with Armstrong has subsequently been busted. That's across 7 wins. A pretty remarkable run rate if true.

Not only do they have blood transfusions - they are self administered.

I think the whole thing was rather more gallant when cheating consisted of hopping in the back of a citroen for a few miles when no one was looking.

BB other cyclists on tdf podium during this time
Alex zulle was caught up in "FESTINA AFFAIR" and took Epo and banned.
Ulrich was retrospectively banned from 2005-2011 and his achievements and results erased from record. He finished 2nd 5 times from 96 onwards ..some of these happened during LA wins
Joseph beloki was one of 5 Spanish riders ( including contador) investigated by Spanish courts in police sting operation.
Raimond Rumnas ...a mini pharmacy was found in his wife car at end on TDF ..she got jail...he got banned.
Vinokourov ...who incidently won gold in these years Olympics ....was caught doping in 2007 TDF and led to the whole Astana team leaving that years tour. He got 2 year ban.
Kloden was not found guilty of anything but he was in Astana team same time as Vinokourov.
Basso. was banned for 2 years in 2006-07 for doping ...
Escartin was also banned for doping.

[fitzy73]

I think the whole thing was rather more gallant when cheating consisted of hopping in the back of a citroen for a few miles when no one was looking.

You bollix. I've just snorted coffee all over my new suit!

[NotreDameRFC]

http://trackandfield.about.com/od/di...ovmarathon.htm

Not sure if it was Citreon balla


Marathon Runner Goes For a Ride: Olympic Marathon ControversyThe 1904 marathon was probably the most chaotic event in Olympic history. The organizers of the St. Louis Games laid out a dusty, hilly course and started the race in mid-afternoon on August 30, when the temperature was about 90 degrees (32° Celsius). Conditions were worsened by officials riding in cars and stirring up dust in front of the runners. Only 14 of the 32 competitors reached the finish line.

American Fred Lorz found a unique way of dealing with these obstacles. He ran for nine miles, then rode in a car for 11 before resuming his run. He entered the stadium first, crossed the finish line and was about to receive the gold medal when the hoax was revealed.

[NotreDameRFC]

http://m.newser.com/story/153317/lan...ign=chan3_feed



another ex employee talks on Armstrong

[MrsMcGahan]

Amazing how some still refuse to face the reality of LA - and buy the victim nonsense.

[Evil Omer]

A cycling nut I work with mentioned the other day (and I don't know enough to verify) that everyone who shared a Tour de France podium with Armstrong has subsequently been busted. That's across 7 wins. A pretty remarkable run rate if true.

Not only do they have blood transfusions - they are self administered.

I think the whole thing was rather more gallant when cheating consisted of hopping in the back of a citroen for a few miles when no one was looking.

worse than that, (the list someone posted last week shows all the people busted and it's on that level), most of his team mates over those years have subsequently been busted, admitted or fingered him for it (if you pardon the expression). It seems good old Lance is the Mealamu of cycling, the only clean guy on the park.

I got the impression there has been the odd year where it's been cleaner than others and untainted guys may be competitive but bearing in mind this has been going on for decades and decades if anyone is clean and competitive then you'd be stunned. This documentary was pretty telling (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0074rgb) not only were the top racers pretty much sharing the cheating methods even though they were competing, at times even they were like "WTF are you doing" about some of it. IIRC at one point in that programme it suggested it had reached a point even back then where to be accepted as part of the peloton you had to be on it.

[lahinch_lass]

Any possibility they could reexamine the sample from that Szabo who beat Sonia in the 5,000 metres?

sonia has apparently stated she believed Szabo was clean at the time when she was beaten by her.. however she wasn't so convinced about the 3 chinese, primarily because they came from nowhere only competed for 1 season & promptly disappeared again. Sonia's attitude appears to be that she'd beaten Szabo before & got chances to compete against her again, wheras she only ever got the 1 race against the Chinese.

It is funny to see USADA coming the heavy on Lance though .. for years they were one of the weakest Anti-doping agencies in world sport, it was taken as defacto truth that a fair chunk of american athletes were doping & it was being covered by their own doping authorities. And for that reason I do tend to think comments by american coaches etc accusing athletes from other nations of doping have to be taken with a fairly large pinch of salt.

[FORWARD....]

]sonia has apparently stated she believed Szabo was clean [/B]at the time when she was beaten by her.. however she wasn't so convinced about the 3 chinese, primarily because they came from nowhere only competed for 1 season & promptly disappeared again. Sonia's attitude appears to be that she'd beaten Szabo before & got chances to compete against her again, wheras she only ever got the 1 race against the Chinese.

Did Sonia state that? I'm not sure she did. I thought her view was that as she had previously beaten Szabo ( the athlete who was never positive but whose husband was stopped with a factory load of drugs in their car on his way to visit wife at high altitude training, but the drugs weren't for her, oh no ), she should have been able to do so again. I'm making the assumption that she meant that szabo was probably sauced the times sonia beat her, so Sonia should have been able to do so again.

[lahinch_lass]

Did Sonia state that? I'm not sure she did. I thought her view was that as she had previously beaten Szabo ( the athlete who was never positive but whose husband was stopped with a factory load of drugs in their car on his way to visit wife at high altitude training, but the drugs weren't for her, oh no ), she should have been able to do so again. I'm making the assumption that she meant that szabo was probably sauced the times sonia beat her, so Sonia should have been able to do so again.

perhaps that was it.. but I know she wasn't as wound up about Szabo as she was about the Chinese. And wasn't calling for Szabo to be stripped of her medals.

[blackwarrior]

From today's New York Times:

"Lance Armstrong, who this fall was stripped of his seven Tour de France titles for doping and barred for life from competing in all Olympic sports, has told associates and antidoping officials that he is considering publicly admitting that he used banned performance-enhancing drugs and blood transfusions during his cycling career, according to several people with direct knowledge of the situation. He would do this, the people said, because he wants to persuade antidoping officials to restore his eligibility so he can resume his athletic career. "

Full article here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/05/sp...ping.html?_r=0

[Viigand]

To hell with that, the guy screwed up so many people's careers and lives to cover up his fraud that he should never be allowed near competitive sport again.

[Ruginator]

If he admits the truth, he has to be looking at jail for committing perjury, multiple law suits to get money from him, from ScA, Sunday Times, sponsors and multiple other sources, I doubt very much whether running a few races is anywhere near his thoughts

A dispicable man, who has attempted to ruin peoples lifes with his influence. I hope he gets locked up.

[Hugh Jardon]

Will he tell all?

Lance Armstrong will break his silence over allegations of drug doping after it was announced he is to be interviewed by Oprah Winfrey next week.
The American was stripped of his seven Tour de France titles by the sport’s governing body the International Cycling Union (UCI), following a report by the US Anti-Doping Agency which concluded the 41-year-old and his US Postal Service team had run “the most sophisticated, professionalism and successful doping programme that sport has ever seen”.
It will be Armstrong’s first formal interview since he was banned for life by the UCI with the Oprah Winfrey Network claiming in a statement that “Armstrong will address the alleged doping scandal, years of accusations of cheating and charges of lying about the use of performance-enhancing drugs throughout his storied cycling career.”
The interview will take place at 9pm on Thursday, January 17th and is scheduled to last for 90 minutes.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking17.html

[Viigand]

Will he pay compensation to guys like Greg LeMond, whose business he ruined, and Emma O'Reilly who he forced out of her job? Or David Walsh, not to mention cyclists whose careers he ended because they wouldn't dope? Pity Piers Morgan or Jeremy Paxman isn't doing the interview. Knowing Pharmstrong, all the questions will be soft and well vetted by his lawyers in advance.

[MrsMcGahan]

A year in prison would be good for Armstrong.