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  1. #1
    Rewatching Glory, Glory, Munster it's almost easy to forget of just
    how long we've had the services of Wallace to call on, he broke
    through at a pretty young age, making his debut in the 1998/1999
    season, though (iirc) he didn't really cement his place until the end of
    2000 (calendar year, not season), and lost virtually a season after
    the Lions tour? he'll be 31 next season, will probably play in almost
    every test match this season, and the RWC, it's fair to say we can't
    be sure just how much longer he'll be able to take top level rugby,
    especially considering his injuries over the years. So, it's only natural
    to begin to wonder, and maybe worry, about where his replacement
    is going to come from.

    Considering we are forced to play Leamy at 7 this weekend, and that
    we had to sign an Australian as cover for when the Internationals are
    away, (though I think we did play JOS there earlier in the season
    too). Leamy made his breakthrough at 7, before moving to 6, before
    returning to his schools position of 8 so we know he's a versatile
    player, but with EOS picking him at 8 for Ireland, it seems unlikely
    his long term future lies anywhere else. why are there no out and out
    number 7's coming through the ranks, or am I just completely
    ignorant of a whole host of academy 7's waiting for the call?

    Iirc, Shannon's Johnny O'Connor was expected to come through, and
    got some caps there last year, but he's since gone to Coventry
    (getting good reviews there though) and there seems to be no home-
    grown heir-apparant. We seem to have become adept at turning out
    very good 6's and 8's, so much so that Keogh can leave the Munster
    bench and become one of Leinster's top players over the course of a
    few months. Of course we'd rather Keogh had remained with
    Munster, but it has been excellant to see his emergence from sub to
    possible 6n's candidate, something he wouldn't be had he been kept
    on the Munster fringes.

    I know mcGann has looked pretty good in his games so far, and at
    25, there's plenty of rugby left in him, but having been capped at 7's
    he's not an option for the Irish team. If anything, his signing
    highlights the problems we are having at finding a homegrown
    player. Bizarrely, with Jennings now returning to Leinster, should
    Munster make a play for Lansdowne's Niall Ronan, who has looked
    pretty good in his limited chances so far? Sure the thoughts of a
    Leinster forward with Munster are enough to make anyone nauseous
    but this are strange days, our best prospects at prop are from Cork,
    one of our best prospects at centre plays with Thomond, the old
    order must be crumbling!

    The problem isn't just confined to Munster, Connacht recently
    extended the contract of Ray Ofisa until 2009, which, although it
    would allow him qualify for Ireland under residency, also betrays the
    lack of 7's working through the system at the minute.

    We've been lucky to have Wallace, and we probably won't realise
    just how lucky until we've to look for a long term replacement. At
    least at 6 and 8, while we are replacing worldclass players, we are
    replacing them with players who have huge potential (even better if
    Keogh returns), can we be as confident about 7?
    It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.

    Every plan I have is the best plan in the room. Everybody get quiet and listen to it, and everybody will win

  2. #2
    Moderator Balla Boy's Avatar
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    I'm guessing that the signing of McGann means there probably isn't.


    Does him having 7's caps rule him out?

  3. #3
    Protector Of Shrubberies The Word Is Born's Avatar
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    <DIV>Yes. </DIV>
    <DIV>Bruffian mentioned Anthony Kavanagh from Garryowen, I think. Not sure if he's a blind or an openside though.</DIV>
    The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves

  4. #4
    Great Chamberlain of the Red Empire
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    <DIV>Way to keep a thread on topic.[img]smileys/rolleyes.gif[/img]</DIV>
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    <DIV>I'm not 100% but I think Kavanagh is actually a 6.</DIV>
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  5. #5
    He can play 8 and 7, 8 is his prefereed but he is a savage 7. unreal pace. Just coming back from injury i think

  6. #6
    Munster and Ireland have always had a strong tradition of good openside players. I think producing a replacement for The Bull is a far bigger worry.
    Dont need reason, dont need rhyme,
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  7. #7


    Yes, but we talk about that problem ad nauseum, whereas the issue of a replacement for Wally doesn't seem to come up that often. I suspect the trouble we're having even keeping this on topic is a symptom of how few viable options there are so far.


    Anybody know more about Kavanagh?
    For you stole Trevelyan\'s watch, So the young might see....oh, never mind....

  8. #8


    I believe that Barry O'Mahoney of UCC is supposed to be a very good prospect. Represented Munster and Ireland schools/U19 whilein school inCrescent and has put in some impressive performances for College this year. He is the most likely home born 7 to come throught the system at the moment. He turned 20 in Spetember, so is still very young for a forward. It will probably be another year or so before he gets his opportunity.


    His brother was on the Muster schools U18 team this year playing full back and is supposed to be a very good player also.

  9. #9
    Great Chamberlain of the Red Empire
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    Is O'Mahoney part of the academy?
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by The Crimson King


    Yes, but we talk about that problem ad nauseum, whereas the issue of a replacement for Wally doesn't seem to come up that often. I suspect the trouble we're having even keeping this on topic is a symptom of how few viable options there are so far.


    Anybody know more about Kavanagh?


    He played a couple of CL games last season IIRC. Played well enough.

  11. #11
    Yeah, his profile is on the deadsite, or what passes for a profle, i.e. his name, date of birth, place of birth and position. So informative as always.

  12. #12
    Munster Dog of War
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    Thought Kavanagh looked pretty good last year. Better than O'Connor anyway.


    The Buccs openside is a handy player. Conor Hartigan is his name andplayed for theIreland club team last year. Not sure how old he is though.

  13. #13
    Leader of the Red Hordes
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    Convert James Coughlan from 8 or Donnacha Ryan from 4 or 8 ?



  14. #14
    Great Chamberlain of the Red Empire sewa's Avatar
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    We can get by with two 6's. The difference between 6 and 7 is somewhat over exxagerated.






  15. #15


    isn't ross Noonan supposed to be the next golden boy from the academy ?


    And i seem to remember he plays back-row. Any cork con fans out there to confirm where in the back row he usually plays ?


    As for wally @ 7, remember up until last year a lot of rugby purists claimed he wasn't and out &amp; out 7 anyway. The munster tradition seems to be for Flankers capable of playing either side. If you watch the munster games the 6&amp;7's regularly switch sides during the course of matches... particularly when it was Wally &amp; Quinny, or Leamy.


    Plato: \"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.\"

  16. #16
    Munster Dog of War
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    Quote Originally Posted by sewa


    We can get by with two 6's. The difference between 6 and 7 is somewhat over exxagerated.











    I'd agree with that. Given the choice of playing 2 good 6's or 1 good 6 and 1 average 7, I'd pick the 2 good 6's every time.

  17. #17
    Leader of the Red Hordes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoof
    He can play 8 and 7, 8 is his prefereed but he is a savage 7. unreal pace. Just coming back from injury i think

    indeed he(kavanagh) has great speed.ive played against him a couple of times where he was played centre,scary proposition!.hes still only 21 aswell.hes adept anywhere in the backrow

  18. #18
    Guest


    I've heard Hartigan, Kavanagh and O'Mahony mentioned in other threads/conversations/etc as decent prospects so I would guess the fact they are known prospects means the cupboard isn't all that bare.


    I'd also say we need to include that Quinlan has played 7 and JOS is quite capable of playing there. Right now we have 4 of the current top 5 back rows capable of playing 7, another out and out 7 behind them plus the 3 youngsters mentioned, that's not bad going at all.


    From an Ireland perspective you've got Wallace, Gleeson, JOC, Leamy, Easterby, Quinlan, Jennings, Ferris all capable of doing the job to some degree.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by lahinch_lass


    As for wally @ 7, remember up until last year a lot of rugby purists claimed he wasn't and out &amp; out 7 anyway.


    Spot on - and a surprising number of people still say that. But sure we'll happily continue to ignore them [img]smileys/lol.gif[/img]
    For you stole Trevelyan\'s watch, So the young might see....oh, never mind....

  20. #20
    Great Chamberlain of the Red Empire
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Crimson King
    Quote Originally Posted by lahinch_lass


    As for wally @ 7, remember up until last year a lot of rugby purists claimed he wasn't and out &amp; out 7 anyway.


    Spot on - and a surprising number of people still say that. But sure we'll happily continue to ignore them [img]smileys/lol.gif[/img]
    <DIV>
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    <DIV>That mainly came from the Leinster camp. Although I don't think they can still say that after the amount of turnover he got against them in December.[img]smileys/lol.gif[/img]</DIV>
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  21. #21
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    Certain people have said that about everyone wearing a 7 shirt who isn't named Keith Gleeson so it's not a well thought out rugby based analysis we're talking about here.

  22. #22
    As previously mentioned, Barry O'Mahony is a great prospect. If the Hartigan also mentioned is Ryan who plays for bohs, he's not really a 7, but is still a great player.
    Governments don't ask themselves "what can we do that is good for the people?". They ask themselves "how do we persuade people that what we want to do is good for them?".

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Omer
    Certain people have said that about everyone
    wearing a 7 shirt who isn't named Keith Gleeson so it's not a well
    thought out rugby based analysis we're talking about here.
    It was hilarious on the morning of the semi the Sunday Times did a
    profile of Gleeson, and then compared his stats to Wallace's, Wallace
    had much better stats, especially in the traditional 7 role.
    It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.

    Every plan I have is the best plan in the room. Everybody get quiet and listen to it, and everybody will win

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck
    <div>That mainly came from the Leinster camp. Although I don't think they can still say that after the amount of turnover he got against them in December.[img]smileys/lol.gif[/img]</div>
    I've said it about him in the past.

    I remember an Ireland game a few years back (I think it was in LR against Scotland for the first of our recent Triple Crowns) with Wallace at 7; and Scotland were going through phase after phase after phase of possession and we couldn't get the ball off them. They were going nowhere, back and forth across the pitch, but in spite of our defence we just couldn't turn them over at the breakdown. I'm pretty sure I gave him a fair roasting on the boards after that one.. [img]smileys/biggrin.gif[/img]

  25. #25
    Guest


    Who the Scots are very good at retaining possession so I wouldn't blame the 7 for that, they're just s**te at penetration. 2 autumns back they should have beaten NZ. As Joey points out when you actually look at the stats he's doing the job but people just see what they want to see.

  26. #26
    Munster Berserker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Omer


    Who the Scots are very good at retaining possession so I wouldn't blame the 7 for that, they're just s**te at penetration. 2 autumns back they should have beaten NZ.


    Lets not get carried away now. While the Jocks looked like they had turned a corner, they had been beaten out the gate by half time in that match, (22-3 at ht).


    The kiwi's had wrapped up their Grand Slam at that stage, and never got out of first gear in the second period.

  27. #27
    Guest
    Stats can prove anything, but are rarely proving the truth. That match included an appallingly inept refereeing performance. NZ had (IIRC) 2 tries allowed that shouldn't have been and I think Scotland had a good try disallowed. The on that sticks the most was where a NZ player failed to catch the ball, continued to juggle it as he ran forwards (therefore proving the ball went forwards) and knocked the ball into the hands of a team mate (who then scored) without having ever recovered control. It was a blatant knock on. That set the tone really. NZ didn't deserve to be ahead and I seem to remember at half time working out that without the biased performance from the officials Scotland would have been within a point or so if not ahead.

  28. #28
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    <TABLE borderColor=#3f3357 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=1>
    <T>
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    <TD colSpan=4>
    <TABLE height=45 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" bgColor=#3f3357>
    <T>
    <TR>
    <TD align=left colSpan=3>Operative Date:June 2006</TD></TR>
    <TR>
    <TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width="25%">7</TD>
    <TD vAlign=bottom align=left>From O'CONNELL STREET</TD>
    <TD></TD>
    <TD vAlign=bottom align=right></TD></TR></T></TABLE></TD></TR></T></TABLE>
    <TABLE borderColor=#3f3357 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=1><!- Intermediate Locati&#111;ns ->
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    <TD vAlign=top width="24%" rowSpan=5>
    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
    <T>
    <TR>
    <TD colSpan=2 height=10></TD></TR>
    <TR>
    <TD colSpan=2>Journey Time - </TD></TR>
    <TR>
    <TD colSpan=2>80 mins approx</TD></TR>
    <TR>
    <TD colSpan=2 height=5></TD></TR>
    <TR>
    <TD>O'CONNELL STREET</TD></TR>
    <TR>
    <TD>25mins.</TD></TR>
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    <TD>Ballsbridge </TD></TR>
    <TR>
    <TD>15mins.</TD></TR>
    <TR>
    <TD>Blackrock </TD></TR>
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    <TD>20mins.</TD></TR>
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    <TD>Dún Laoghaire </TD></TR>
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    <TD>LOUGHLINSTOWN PARK
    CHERRYWOOD
    </TD></TR></T></TABLE></TD><!- Stages String ->
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    <TD align=middle width="33%">MONDAY TO FRIDAY</TD>
    <TD align=middle width="33%">SATURDAY</TD>
    <TD align=middle>SUNDAY</TD></TR>
    <TR>
    <TD vAlign=top align=left bgColor=#d9daf9><!- M&#111;n to Fri - light blue cell -><!- this table c&#111;ntains 1 row and 3 td's each c&#111;ntaining a table(rows of times) ->
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    <TD align=middle>0540</TD>
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    <TD>tC</TD></TR>
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    <TD align=middle>0645</TD>
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    <TD align=middle>0650</TD>
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    <TD align=middle>0720</TD>
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    <TR>
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    <TR>
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    <

  29. #29
    [img]smileys/rolleyes.gif[/img][img]smileys/rolleyes.gif[/img]Whats up with the doooooooooog[img]smileys/lol.gif[/img][img]smileys/lol.gif[/img]

  30. #30
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    WTF ?[img]smileys/smile.gif[/img]

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