Ireland 61-17 Pacific Islands

[Mcork]

Saw 1st half & start of 2nd but pub I was watching it in switched
to Man Utd v Chelsea after a fairly comprehensive democratic vote in
which I was outvoted by about 30 to 1. My ridiculous attempts to argue
that the game was still in the balance were ignored.



Anyway just read report on BBC & I see BOD went off injured : Is it
serious? Stade Francais, Sale & Leinster have paid a heavy price
for these AI's. We've lost Horan but I think we've got off lightly
compared to others.

[Point]

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<DIV ="sh">Ireland 61-17 Pacific Islands </DIV></DIV></TD></TR>
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<DIV ="cap">Paddy Wallace scores a try in the victory at Lansdowne Road</DIV></DIV></TD></TR></T></T></TABLE><!- E IIMA ->


Ireland (37) 61
Tries: Hickie, Wallace, O'Kelly, Easterby (2), Horgan, R Best, O'Connell
Con: Wallace (6)
Pens: Wallace (3)



Pacific Islands (12) 17
Tries: Rabeni, Fa'atau, Pisi
Con: Pisi
Pens:



<!- S SF ->Ireland completed a hat-trick of autumn Test wins with a thumping victory in the last international before Lansdowne Road is demolished and rebuilt.


Ulster fly-half Paddy Wallace starred in his first Irish start with 26 points from an excellent kicking display.


Tries from Denis Hickie, Wallace, Malcolm O'Kelly, Simon Esterby (2), Shane Horgan, Rory Best and Paul O'Connell secured a convincing win.


Seru Rabeni, Lome Fa'atau and Tusi Pisi touched down for the visitors. <!- E SF ->


The Irish started and finished the first half in style but in between they displayed all the signs of a team showing nine changes, including three debutants.


A clever reverse pass from Wallace sent Hickie through for the opening try after five minutes.


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Wallace added the conversion and a penalty to give the home side early confidence.


But the visitors hit back after 12 minutes with Seru Rabeni going over for a converted try after good work from Ratuvou.


Wallace gave Ireland a nine-point cushion with two more penalties but the new-look side were now making mistakes and the game was lacking any rythm.


Justin Va'a was sinbinned after pulling down a maul on 30 minutes but the Pacific Islands claimed their second try four minutes later when Fa'atau touched down after a turnover.


There was a late flourish from the Irish with Wallace cutting inside and darting over before O'Kelly put a further five points on the board after stealing the ball from a line-out.


Girvan Dempsey, injured in a first-half tackle from Rabeni, is replaced at the interval by Gordon D'Arcy.


Eddie O'Sullivan's side made an excellent start to the second half with tries from Easterby and Horgan.


Brian O'Driscoll's off-load put Easterby through while Horgan bounced off a tackle before racing to the line.


The impressive Wallace converted both tries to take his tally to 24 points.


Ireland skipper O'Driscoll went off injured after 58 minutes with Ulster scrum-half Issac Boss his replacement.


Easterby forced his way over for his second try and another superb kick from Wallace makes it 51-12.


Rory Best added another try courtesy of a Boss lay-off and O'Connell surged over for the final try at the old Dublin stadium.


Sadly for Wallace he spoiled his perfect record by missing his final two conversion attempts.



<HR>



Ireland: G Dempsey, L Fitzgerald, B O'Driscoll, S Horgan, D Hickie, P Wallace, P Stringer; B Young, F Sheahan, J Hayes, M O'Kelly, P O'Connell, S Easterby, SD Ferris, J Heaslip.
Replacements: R Best, S Best, D O'Callaghan, D Leamy, I Boss, R O'Gara, G D'Arcy.


Pacific Islands: N Ligairi, L Fa'atau, S Rabeni, E Seveali'i, K Ratuvou; T Pisi, M Rauluni; J Va'aHale A Lutui, T Taumoepeau, D

[Sin a bhfuil]

Saw 1st half &amp; start of 2nd but pub I was watching it in switched to Man Utd v Chelsea after a fairly comprehensive democratic vote in which I was outvoted by about 30 to 1. My ridiculous attempts to argue that the game was still in the balance were ignored.

Anyway just read report on BBC &amp; I see BOD went off injured : Is it serious? Stade Francais, Sale &amp; Leinster have paid a heavy price for these AI's. We've lost Horan but I think we've got off lightly compared to others.



Didn't look serious - he walked fairly comfortably. I'll be the first to say that i was pleasantly surprised by the performance of P Wallace. I know the PIs are not a good benchmark but his place-kicking, passing and running lines were impressive - fair play to the guy. the pressure was on and he did as much as could have been asked...

[Munster06]

Saw 1st half & start of 2nd
but pub I was watching it in switched to Man Utd v Chelsea after a
fairly comprehensive democratic vote in which I was outvoted by
about 30 to 1. My ridiculous attempts to argue that the game was still
in the balance were ignored.Anyway just read report on BBC & I see
BOD went off injured : Is it serious? Stade Francais, Sale & Leinster
have paid a heavy price for these AI's. We've lost Horan but I think
we've got off lightly compared to others.


Didn't look serious - he walked fairly comfortably. I'll be the first
to say that i was pleasantly surprised by the performance of P
Wallace. I know the PIs are not a good benchmark but his place-
kicking, passing and running lines were impressive - fair play to the
guy. the pressure was on and he did as much as could have been
asked...
Yeah agree same here thought boss was also good when he came on

[Mcork]

WCCheers, impressed with Wallace as well, I'd have no qualms about playing him
against the likes of Georgia &amp; Nambia in the WC. We'll need to see
him against better opposition B4 going further than that. Took his
chance though &amp; will def make WC squad IMO. Wonder will
Staunton get a chance as well or has EOS made up his mind..

[blackadder]

Now that Wallace has passed the PI test we know we can play him against Namibia and Georgia without any concern. ROG will obviously start the 6N so the next test for Wallace should be against Argentina in June when ROG will be sitting on the beach with his feet up...at least if EOS has any sense that's what will be happening.


Also with my Ulster hat it was encouraging to see Wallace's excellent goal kicking, the last two came when he was struggling with cramp, plus it would have been poor form for him to equal ROG's points recordsmileys/wink.gif

[Don Munsafano]

Blackadder is there any chance of him getting a few games of Ulster at 10?

[shtove]

Good good good. I hadn't seen the PI before - does it mean anything that we won going away from them, whereas Scotland and Wales were pegged back in their second halfs?

[Red Hand Hero]

Fairly robust performance from a team that had what 9 changes to it. The forwards did well, lineout functioned well and all made their marks in the loose. The backs played well against a big hitting defence andeveryone came out with reputations intacted andenhanced in some occasions.


Young carried well and showed a neat dummy and nearly got in at the corner thouigh probably should have offloaded earlier. Scrummed well, though the PI's are renkowned for the scrummaging might. 7


Frankie-darts were good, though the PI's lineout wasn't the best. Carried well and didn't let himself down, still think fla and rory are ahead of him still. 7


Hayes-another solid performance form the bull. did nothing wrong and did well in the scrums. 6


Mal-big performance from MOK. Carried it up a few times and was a real thorn in the lineouts. Again like frankie not enough to dislodge incumbant but didn't his cause any harm. 7


POC-another fantastic outing for the big man, carried like a trooper and put in the work about the pitch. Best lock in the world i'd say at the moment.8


Easterby-pulled out a big performance. Tackled worked and carried ferociously, two good tries were just rewards for a fine day at the office. Don't think he will start ahead of Best but he offers a different approach should it be needed. 8


Ferris-not as barnstorming as he has been for Ulster but a very solid performance. Got througha lot of work, was 1st or second to just about every ruck beasting anyone who shouldn't be there out of the way. Made a solid 5+ metres of the restarts he caught and i don't think missed a tackle.7


Heaslip-took his debut in his stride, carried well and impressed with the ball in hand. Took a big hit well from Rambeni8


Stringer-got caught in possession a couple of times, though probably down to poor protection from his forwards and concentrated effort to disrupt possession. An excellent little dink into the 22' but also some wayward kicks. 6.5


Wallace-great effort when the pressure was on. Kicked superbly until cramp set in and took his try well. Not going to dislodge ROG but he's there if we need to chase a game with 10 to go. 9


Hickie-another good showing from Hickie, good strength for his try and some useful kicks.8


Horgan-played very well, good footwork and sheer brute force when required deserved his try for the bounce alone. Silly kick would have annoyed him. 8


BOD-quality personfied in the little left footed kick which turned the PI's and gave ireland a little boost. Defence was as usual top notch, though got outpaced for the PI's second try (possibly first not sure). 8


fitzgerald-shaky start and wasn't helped by a BOD hospital pass but got into the game more and showed good pace and feet, though his awareness could imporve. 7


Girv-solid again, heavy and high tackle from rambeni put him out but countered solidly again. Not the paciest but he's a big guy and hard to put down.


S.Best-good scrummaging, got his hands on the ball a few times did nothing wrong.6


R.Best-good support play for his try, not unlike his one against bizzritz last year for ulster. 6


DOC-6


Leamy-not enough time to make much of an impact. Usual determination and aggression.6


Boss-came on the wing, elusive running and an excellent break from first reciever to set up rory's try. 7


ROg-not enough time for rating


D'Arcy-solid effort. Defended well and danced well, passing looked sharp too. 7

[SecondRowGal]

Couldn't agree about Mal at all, RHH. Missed two sitters of tackles and did a fair amount of ruck-inspecting. Also, was swinging out of one lad's jersey for about 10 mins (ok, ok... slight exaggeration..) before he brought him down. Think DOC is way ahead of him now.


If the Bull did no wrong, then how come he only gets a 6 frm your good self?? I thought the lineout suffered when he went off myself.


Dunno when the TV coverage finished but the Bull took off his jersey and threw it into the crowd at the end of the lap of honour. Started a bit of a strip-fest then! He was hanging off POC trying to get him to take his off but POC was having none of it at first but did succumb to peer pressure at the end!! BOD came off the pitch minus jersey, boots and socks! Was starting to get worried there!


ROG and DOC went to the other end of the pitch throw in their jerseys and think one of the PIs did also.


Excelent finish and nice souvenirs for some lucky folk...

[kottos]

Good performance from Wallace, it's good to see that we might potentially have cover at 10. We need to see how he handles tighter games though. He should definitely be playing vs. Argentina in the summer (gives ROG a rest), but it's time for McCall to give him some HEC starts at 10. The upcoming games against London Irish would be an ideal place to start. Ireland and Ulster will suffer in the long term if we continue to rely on the Humph.

[scotscor]

ROG and DOC went to the other end of the pitch throw in their jerseys and think one of the PIs did also.

I think they went to the wheelchair end, though it could have been because ROG wanted to jump those hoardings one last time

[lahinch_lass]

they showed the strip off alright .. hamilton's comment was that we might be about to witness the first streak by an irish player !

[Red Hand Hero]

The 6 wasn't meant as a harsh rating i just felt that he wasn't as involvedtoday as he was last week when he was phenonenal. When it comes to the lineout Bull's use cannot be underestimated, but its the scrummaging that worries me. If he could constantly hold his own even (not looking for destructive ability) he would be in Haymans league as i said on a thread here or the uafc site.


Ps good luck to whoever caught Bulls jersey, alls i can say hope it wasn't too windy leaving lansdowne!

[Kerry-Exile]

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Ireland v Pacific Islands statistics from BBC

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Ireland </font></td><td ="statsTableRowLightGrey" align="left" valign="top" width="8793"> 61-17 </font></td><td ="statsTableRowLightGrey" align="left" valign="top" width="8793"> Pacific Islands</font></td></tr>



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0 </font></td><td ="statsTableRow" align="left" valign="top" width="8793"> Pen tries </font></td><td ="statsTableRow" align="left" valign="top" width="8793"> 0</font></td></tr>



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6/8 </font></td><td ="statsTableRow" align="left" valign="top" width="8793"> Conversions </font></td><td ="statsTableRow" align="left" valign="top" width="8793"> 1/3</font></td></tr>



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3/3 </font></td><td ="statsTableRow" align="left" valign="top" width="8793"> Penalty goals </font></td><td ="statsTableRow" align="left" valign="top" width="8793"> 0/1</font></td></tr>



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0/0 </font></td><td ="statsTableRow" align="left" valign="top" width="8793"> Drop goals </font></td><td ="statsTableRow" align="left" valign="top" width="8793"> 0/0</font></td></tr>



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Phases of Play</font></td><td ="statsTableRowLightGrey" align="left" valign="top" width="8793"> </font>
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14 </font></td><td ="statsTableRow" align="left" valign="top" width="8793"> Scrums Won </font></td><td ="statsTableRow" align="left" valign="top" width="8793"> 8</font></td></tr>



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0 </font></td><td ="statsTableRow" align="left" valign="top" width="8793"> Lost </font></td><td ="statsTableRow" align="left" valign="top" width="8793"> 0</font></td></tr>

[dropkick]

A slow start by Ireland but upped the pace in the second half which the PI's couldn't live with. The 3 debutants were quite and Wallace deserved his MOTM. He's looking confident and I'd say that performance will give him more confidence.


Boss made a great impact when he came on (the wing) too.

[Old Dog]

ROG and DOC went to the other end of the pitch throw in their jerseys and think one of the PIs did also.



I think they went to the wheelchair end, though it could have been because ROG wanted to jump those hoardings one last time



From Colin H:
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>We said farewell this evening to Lansdowne Road as the last international was played out between Ireland and the Pacific Islanders. This episode is in two parts. Now are the images from the match itslef and followed by tomorrow the prematch pictures and the amazing scenes at the end. Special mention must go to Ronan O'Gara and Donnacha O'Callaghan who rushed over at the end and give their jerseys to the disabled children on the South Goal Line. smileys/thumb-up.gif</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>http://www.rugbypics.mobstop.com/irepi/irepi.htm</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>

[munsterforever]

well done ROG and DOC

absolutely brilliant

[Siobhan]

well done ROG and DOC

absolutely brilliant



Hear hear, chwarae teg the pair of them. smileys/thumb-up.gif

[blackadder]

Blackadder is there any chance of him getting a few games of Ulster at 10?


Hmmmm, i can't see it to be honest, ironically the last game we played at home to The Borders would have be ideal but he was unavailable due to Ireland commitments.


December is a big month for us with Leinster at home next week, then London Irish home and away, Connacht at home on Boxing Day and then Leinster on NYE. Connacht at home might be his chance but McCall has shown little interest in rotating him with Humph so far...

[Terracetoff]

Think McCall should rotate Blackadder as DH has showed his age a bit
this season. He had a shocker against Borders (as did a lot of others to
be fair)

[JoeyFantastic]

Think McCall should rotate Blackadder as DH has showed his age a bit
this season. He had a shocker against Borders (as did a lot of others to
be fair)

I think EOS will insist on it now.

[Terracetoff]

Though the three tyros had a quiet introduction although Ferris and
Heaslip seemed to work pretty hard. Don't think Easterbunny put
himself ahead of Best despite his two tries - he doesn't have the same
impact. Have to say our backrow of Best Leamy and Wallace is a
monster - pushing the ABs.

[blackadder]

Think McCall should rotate Blackadder as DH has showed his age a bit
this season. He had a shocker against Borders (as did a lot of others to
be fair)


Humph probably isn't used to playing so much rugby by this stage of the season as he is usually either at Camp Eddie or getting splinters in his arse with Ireland, maybe it's catching up with him.I stil think humph is a class act but you'd think any 35 year old is going to find it tough to be playing week in week out. Connacht at home on Boxing Day would strike me as the best opportunity to start Wallace at 10.

[danthefan]

Fair play to Wallace, made his tackles, obviously a good place kicker and has good hands, which will remain no matter what the opposition. I just hope this has given EOS the confidence to play him in an important match, I reckon he's certainly up to it but there's only one way to find out.

I thought Stringer was pretty poor, I don't think he would have played the whole game if it wasn't for injuries.

Happy with Heaslip's debut, don't think he did a lot wrong. Fitz was alright aswell. still fairly incredible that the guy is only 19. Ferris too had a good game, not an orthodox 7 but certainly one for the future too. None of the newcomers are really challengindg for starting places to be honest but we have solid backup in case of injury/loss of form/acts of God etc etc.

[scotscor]

Fair play to Wallace, made his tackles, obviously a
good place kicker and has good hands, which will remain no matter what
the opposition. I just hope this has given EOS the confidence to play
him in an important match, I reckon he's certainly up to it but there's
only one way to find out.

I thought Stringer was pretty poor, I don't think he would have played the whole game if it wasn't for injuries.

Happy
with Heaslip's debut, don't think he did a lot wrong. Fitz was alright
aswell. still fairly incredible that the guy is only 19. Ferris too had
a good game, not an orthodox 7 but certainly one for the future too.
None of the newcomers are really challengindg for starting places to be
honest but we have solid backup in case of injury/loss of form/acts of
God etc etc.



Stringer poor, andHeaslip and Ferris good, yeah right. Heaslip and
Ferris, did the hitting and carrying alright but the ball presentation
at rucks was shocking, Strings did really well when you watch in on the
video (was at the game myself), the ball was very messy
coming out of rucks. And the scrums were complete s**te.

Interesting, the time Wallace went scrum half, just after Bryn Young
had screwed up a 3 on 0 overlap, the ruck was s**te again and wallace
got collared with the ball, and the PI's scored.

Fair play to Wallace, made his tackles, obviously a
good place kicker and has good hands, which will remain no matter what
the opposition. I just hope this has given EOS the confidence to play
him in an important match, I reckon he's certainly up to it but there's
only one way to find out.

I thought Stringer was pretty poor, I don't think he would have played the whole game if it wasn't for injuries.

Happy
with Heaslip's debut, don't think he did a lot wrong. Fitz was alright
aswell. still fairly incredible that the guy is only 19. Ferris too had
a good game, not an orthodox 7 but certainly one for the future too.
None of the newcomers are really challengindg for starting places to be
honest but we have solid backup in case of injury/loss of form/acts of
God etc etc.





You are an idiot smileys/lol.gif and you clearly either know or understand very little about rugby. WUM'ing langer.

[Corker]

ROG and DOC went to the other end of the pitch throw in their jerseys and think one of the PIs did also.



I think they went to the wheelchair end, though it could have been because ROG wanted to jump those hoardings one last time



From Colin H:
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>We said farewell this evening to Lansdowne Road as the last international was played out between Ireland and the Pacific Islanders. This episode is in two parts. Now are the images from the match itslef and followed by tomorrow the prematch pictures and the amazing scenes at the end. Special mention must go to Ronan O'Gara and Donnacha O'Callaghan who rushed over at the end and give their jerseys to the disabled children on the South Goal Line. smileys/thumb-up.gif</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>http://www.rugbypics.mobstop.com/irepi/irepi.htm</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV> This happened pretty much straight in front of us and was greeted with huge applause, cheers and general nods of approval from all the crowd around us. This after all the other jersey throwing had taken place at the opposite (northern) end of the pitch. Fair play lads, a very nice gesture. smileys/thumb-up.gif

[Upfront_1979]

Fair play to Wallace, made his tackles, obviously a good place kicker and has good hands, which will remain no matter what the opposition. I just hope this has given EOS the confidence to play him in an important match, I reckon he's certainly up to it but there's only one way to find out.

I thought Stringer was pretty poor, I don't think he would have played the whole game if it wasn't for injuries.

Happy with Heaslip's debut, don't think he did a lot wrong. Fitz was alright aswell. still fairly incredible that the guy is only 19. Ferris too had a good game, not an orthodox 7 but certainly one for the future too. None of the newcomers are really challengindg for starting places to be honest but we have solid backup in case of injury/loss of form/acts of God etc etc.


You are an idiot smileys/lol.gif and you clearly either know or understand very little about rugby. WUM'ing langer.



was at the game and stringer was'nt great. apart from some terrible passes which may be because of bad protection he also spent far too much time looking at the ball instead of doing something with it. There was one scrum where the watched the ball go between his legs and if heaslip had'nt have picked it up it would have been a turnover! Not his best day.

[Point]

Fair play to Wallace, made his tackles, obviously a good place kicker and has good hands, which will remain no matter what the opposition. I just hope this has given EOS the confidence to play him in an important match, I reckon he's certainly up to it but there's only one way to find out.

I thought Stringer was pretty poor, I don't think he would have played the whole game if it wasn't for injuries.

Happy with Heaslip's debut, don't think he did a lot wrong. Fitz was alright aswell. still fairly incredible that the guy is only 19. Ferris too had a good game, not an orthodox 7 but certainly one for the future too. None of the newcomers are really challengindg for starting places to be honest but we have solid backup in case of injury/loss of form/acts of God etc etc.

Stringer poor, andHeaslip and Ferris good, yeah right. Heaslip and Ferris, did the hitting and carrying alright but the ball presentation at rucks was shocking, Strings did really well when you watch in on the video (was at the game myself), the ball was very messy coming out of rucks. And the scrums were complete s**te.
Interesting, the time Wallace went scrum half, just after Bryn Young had screwed up a 3 on 0 overlap, the ruck was s**te again and wallace got collared with the ball, and the PI's scored.




Well said Scots. Stringer's passing was top drawer and helped give so much time to Wallace. The difference in speed of pass between Stringer and Boss was striking.

ROG and DOC went to the other end of the pitch throw in their jerseys and think one of the PIs did also.



I think they went to the wheelchair end, though it could have been because ROG wanted to jump those hoardings one last time



From Colin H:
<div></font></div>
<div>We said farewell this evening to Lansdowne Road as the last international was played out between Ireland and the Pacific Islanders. This episode is in two parts. Now are the images from the match itslef and followed by tomorrow the prematch pictures and the amazing scenes at the end. Special mention must go to Ronan O'Gara and Donnacha O'Callaghan who rushed over at the end and give their jerseys to the disabled children on the South Goal Line. smileys/thumb-up.gif</font></div>
<div></font></div>
<div>http://www.rugbypics.mobstop.com/irepi/irepi.htm</font> (http://www.rugbypics.mobstop.com/irepi/irepi.htm)</div>
<div></div>
<div></div> This happened pretty much straight in front of us and was greeted with huge applause, cheers and general nods of approval from all the crowd around us. This after all the other jersey throwing had taken place at the opposite (northern) end of the pitch. Fair play lads, a very nice gesture. smileys/thumb-up.gif

Well done ROG and DOC. A bit of a teary eyed moment there all right as we saw it being in the East terrace. Bravo.

[blackadder]

Stringer was alright today but given the poor presentation by the pack it was more a day for a physical scrum half like Boss. If it comes down to a horses for courses selection between Stringer and Boss yesterday was the sort of day you'd want Boss IMO.

[mullet is gone]

Ferris and Heaslip were not up to much. Easterby did well. Stringer did what he could but the ball was slow in coming and the ref let an awful lot go at the breakdown. Fitzgerald has a ways to go yet but you can see why hes in the squad. Boss looks a better winger than a scrum half......we couldt turn himinto an austin healy type, wondering inof the wing and confusing the opposition defense(okay maybe not).Not sure if Boss would have been better yesterday.IfBoss had the slower presentation andhis noticeablyslower pass.........it would have beenan even uglier game.I now thinkHickie should start in the first team,yesthats bloody harsh on trimble but hickies come in and shown what he can do. Im still at a lossas towhy he hasnt become a fullback, still has speed and hes a great boot onhim. Wallace looked competent but we've got to get him game time in a pressure situation somewhere.Its not going to happen at ulster so he'll have to start against the argies and maybe come in for a6N game. The Dempsey/Murphy issue remains unsolved.

[Upfront_1979]

<DIV ="storyLayout">
<H2>O'Sullivan reflects on a fine finish</H2>
<DIV ="storydate">Sunday November 26 2006</DIV>'It was an emotional afternoon'


A typically understated Eddie O'Sullivan has hailed Ireland's clean sweep of victories from their November internationals as a "good month's work". <!-
if (OAS_listpos.indexOf('2') >@@@@SPAN id=intelliTXT>


The Irish followed up convincing wins over South Africa and Australia with a 61-17 demolition of the Pacific Islanders at Lansdowne Road to sign off the series in champagne style.


"I'm happy with the autumn internationals on the basis we produced three good performances and three good wins," said the Ireland boss.


"We got as much out of the autumn as we possibly could and overall I'm delighted with our performances.


"We used 26 players over the three games so we were able to look at some new guys as well.


"It was a good month's work and there is a lot of stuff in the bank that will stand us in good stead for the Six Nations."


Lansdowne Road's final international before redevelopment begins in January was marked by some dazzling rugby and O'Sullivan was delighted the world's oldest rugby ground was given a victorious send off.


"It was an emotional afternoon - the significance of what was happening really hit me when we arrived on the team bus," he said.


"One of the officials who shakes the players' hands as they walk into the stadium mentioned it would be the last time he did it and at that point it really hit home for me.


"Over the years Lansdowne Road has been worth at least seven points to us because there has always been so much emotion between the ground, team and fans.


"This was a great way to finish things."


Simon Easterby ran in two tries - and Paddy Wallace, Denis Hickie, Malcolm O'Kelly, Shane Horgan, Rory Best and Paul O'Connell also crossed in a ruthless rout.


Ulster fly-half Wallace was named man of the match following a performance which suggests Ireland have genuine cover for Ronan O'Gara.


The 27-year-old kicked 21 points, missing just two shots at goal, and touched down in first-half injury-time for a richly deserved try.


O'Sullivan said: "Paddy had a super game at 10. It was a hard game to control, but he managed it. His kicking off the ground was excellent."


Luke Fitzgerald, Jamie Heaslip and Stephen Ferris made their Test debuts - and O'Sullivan was delighted with them.


He said: "Luke did very well. The Islanders' backs are fast footballers. Luke did very well and dropped into full-back when Girvan Dempsey went off.


"He could have backed himself a bit more, if I wanted to be critical. He needs to pin his ears back and go.


"It's still a learning curve for him, but he showed he's capable of playing Test rugby.


"Jamie and Stephen did well in a match that was brutal at times. They made some hard yards and defended well."


O'Sullivan knew it could not be pretty throughout.


"Overall I was happy with the team's performance. At times it got messy - but then we were playing against a side who like to play fast and loose," he said.


"It would be hard to be as cohesive as we were in the last few weeks, because we showed nine changes and three new caps.


"We lost our shape a bit after a good start. We needed to be directed - and once we did that, we had much better shape to our game.


"But the Islanders are big hitters, and that makes life difficult."


Islanders head coach Pat Lam hailed Ireland as the second-best team in the world and declared they are "far superior" to previous tour opponents Wales and Scotland.


He said: "We're disappointed by the result. We got off to a rocky start, but the boys got back and scored a good try to put us just 16-12 behind.


"Ireland then scored those two tries just before half-time, and that really rocked u

[danthefan]

It's exactly it, he stood at the base of rucks looking at the bloody thing instead of passing it. His passes were not bad, but he was too slow, and also was crabbing a lot which he doesn't normally do. He also let himself be caught once or twice off the base of a ruck. Didn't have a good game, don't care what you cyclops type people think you saw.

[mike11]

.......



was at the game and stringer was'nt great. apart from some terrible passes which may be because of bad protection he also spent far too much time looking at the ball instead of doing something with it. There was one scrum where the watched the ball go between his legs and if heaslip had'nt have picked it up it would have been a turnover! Not his best day.





You WUMming to......?????


Strings had a good game. There was a lot of messy stuff and he sorted most of it. His presence and tactical nous got us 2 tries, also saved what should have been a certain one by them (usual round the ankles tackle....). His presence also bought us a few penalties when he enticed their guys to put a paw on the ball at ruck-time. Watch the tape.

[sewa]

Its a pity they cant get some new material as the quality of the wumming is very poor. I'd give Dan the fan 1/10 and Upfront 2/10.Please try harder.


Up against an awfully poor PI side none of the newcomers did themselves any favours apart from Wallace who played far better than I expected. Fitzgerald looked out of his depth and neither of the new back rows made any impression. Both were comprehensively outplayed by Goodbunny. Mal tried his best but looked absolutelyknackered. His international days must be numbered now.

[Jackie Brown]

I'm not WUMing, however i do think Stringer had a poor game. All too often he stands at the back of rucks flapping his arms and pleading for penalties instead of zipiing the ball out. His passes also weren't his usual accuracy either. Boss when he came on made a few great breaks, makes you wonder how many more tries we would have got if he had started! Stringer is beginning to look like his days are numbered hope i'm wrong tho. He looked a lost puppy out there without ROG behind him.<!-
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[Point]

I'm not WUMing, however i do think Stringer had a poor game. All too often he stands at the back of rucks flapping his arms and pleading for penalties instead of zipiing the ball out. His passes also weren't his usual accuracy either. Boss when he came on made a few great breaks, makes you wonder how many more tries we would have got if he had started! Stringer is beginning to look like his days are numbered hope i'm wrong tho. He looked a lost puppy out there without ROG behind him.<!-
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Absolute rubbish, Jackie. Take off the blinkers. Wallace wouldn't have got anything like the amount of go forward ball if Boss was chucking them out, as was shown last week.

[mullet is gone]

I'm not WUMing, however i do think Stringer had a poor game. All too often he stands at the back of rucks flapping his arms and pleading for penalties instead of zipiing the ball out. His passes also weren't his usual accuracy either. Boss when he came on made a few great breaks, makes you wonder how many more tries we would have got if he had started! Stringer is beginning to look like his days are numbered hope i'm wrong tho. He looked a lost puppy out there without ROG behind him.<!-
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He cant zip the ball out because the opposition were illegally interfering with it (and we werent effective at the breakdown). This is why he was looking for penalties. Boss made one or two breaks.........but. ..not...from... scrumhalf......


Stringers days are indeed numbered,it is however quitea big number.Thankfully ROG is also likely to be starting for quite some time, this should prevent stringer from looking like a lost puppy. He will continue instead to look like the dogs bo***cks.

[Jackie Brown]

Yeah ok then Point, each to their own. Stringer was firing passes behind ROG when he came on against Australia. Yesterday was a game which didn't go well for Strings, he's feeling the pressure and i hope he can up his game. So take off the blinkers.<!-
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[mullet is gone]

Im starting to see why EOS was slow in blooding potential replacement players. He was trying to save us from this bulls**t. I take it all back Eddie.

[sewa]

Will Bryan Young ever learn how to scrummage?

[Upfront_1979]

2/10 for stating what I saw.... cheers


Did'nt hear anyone at the ground saying any different but I must have been in the non-munster blinkered section. Stringer is a great player and is still IMO our first choice scrum half but he has a habit of just standing there looking for penalties rather than getting quick ball out to the backs. This is fine if we have the right ref but after 20 minutes yesterday everyone could see that the ref did'nt give a toss about what the PI's were doing at the breakdown so stringer should have adapted.

[mike11]

Ferris and Heaslip were not up to much. Easterby did well. Stringer did what he could but the ball was slow in coming and the ref let an awful lot go at the breakdown. Fitzgerald has a ways to go yet but you can see why hes in the squad. Boss looks a better winger than a scrum half......we couldt turn himinto an austin healy type, wondering inof the wing and confusing the opposition defense(okay maybe not).Not sure if Boss would have been better yesterday.IfBoss had the slower presentation andhis noticeablyslower pass.........it would have beenan even uglier game.I now thinkHickie should start in the first team,yesthats bloody harsh on trimble but hickies come in and shown what he can do. Im still at a lossas towhy he hasnt become a fullback, still has speed and hes a great boot onhim. Wallace looked competent but we've got to get him game time in a pressure situation somewhere.Its not going to happen at ulster so he'll have to start against the argies and maybe come in for a6N game. The Dempsey/Murphy issue remains unsolved.





Agree wholeheartedly with almost all that.


We now have 3 good wingers and agree that Dennis is now ahead of young Trimble in the pecking order. So why would we have Like Fitz near the 22 (or even 30). Yes he's quick - but not fantastically so. It's obvious he's still got a lot to learn - tackling, covering, needs to be able to handle a high ball. A season of ML and maybe the odd 'A' start would probably bring him along. I'd say the same for Heaslip - he let an opportunity slip yesterday. More experience will develop him also.

[Corker]

Well said Scots. Stringer's passing was top drawer and helped give so much time to Wallace. The difference in speed of pass between Stringer and Boss was striking.


I disagree there Point. Boss came on in the wing position and IIRC only stepped in to SH on one occasion when PS was buried in a ruck. I don't think you can judge a difference in his passing speed based on one pass alone.


I also thought PS had one of his poorer games in a green shirt. FFS lads everyone is allowed an off day occasionally. PS doesn't have many of them. Accept it when he does will ye ? He got caught in posession too many times, he was up to his usual flapping at the ref when the ball was between his feet on at least 2 occasions also. Maybe the protection offered him by the back row wasn't top drawer either, but I felt he wasn't great.

[ryano]

Well said Scots. Stringer's passing was top drawer and helped give so much time to Wallace. The difference in speed of pass between Stringer and Boss was striking.


I disagree there Point. Boss came on in the wing position and IIRC only stepped in to SH on one occasion when PS was buried in a ruck. I don't think you can judge a difference in his passing speed based on one pass alone.


I also thought PS had one of his poorer games in a green shirt. FFS lads everyone is allowed an off day occasionally. PS doesn't have many of them. Accept it when he does will ye ? He got caught in posession too many times, he was up to his usual flapping at the ref when the ball was between his feet on at least 2 occasions also. Maybe the protection offered him by the back row wasn't top drawer either, but I felt he wasn't great.
I thought Stringer had a fairly ordinary game, but as you say everybody is entitled to an off day. However he did make one howler which I think led eventually to one of the PI's tries. It was in the first half, we were making good progress towards the line in the tight when Stringer decided to fire one out wide to the backs. However he didn't look before taking the ball out of the ruck, and when we turned to make the pass he saw both the referee and Malcolm O'Kelly in the way. He hesitated and then fired the ball out anyway to nobody in particular. I don't think it was directly intercepted, but we ended up rucking the ball on the 22 rather than a yard or so from the try line. If I remember correctly we lost possession shortly afterwards and the end result was a PI try.

[Point]

Well said Scots. Stringer's passing was top drawer and helped give so much time to Wallace. The difference in speed of pass between Stringer and Boss was striking.


I disagree there Point. Boss came on in the wing position and IIRC only stepped in to SH on one occasion when PS was buried in a ruck. I don't think you can judge a difference in his passing speed based on one pass alone.


I also thought PS had one of his poorer games in a green shirt. FFS lads everyone is allowed an off day occasionally. PS doesn't have many of them. Accept it when he does will ye ? He got caught in posession too many times, he was up to his usual flapping at the ref when the ball was between his feet on at least 2 occasions also. Maybe the protection offered him by the back row wasn't top drawer either, but I felt he wasn't great.





I was referring to the difference between the speed of pass last week's to this week's match, Corker. The issue around the rucks was down to the crap protection around the fringes (and through the middle). When he did get the ball, the pass was whipped out to Wallace, which gave him much more time.

[mike11]

Corker,


There was a problem with the game around SH, but it wasn't of Stringer's making. We had 2 rookie b-rowers and it showed. At the breakdown Easterby tried a bit, but that's not his forte. 2 others MIA. At scrum time we were untidy and seemed under pressure. With go-forward ball we should have done more. You remember when we got a scrum just outside their 5 line and their blinside cover went missing. It was screaming out for a try to be scored. When Heaslip did eventually pick the ball he went inside - straight into the cover...!!!!


While I wouldn't be nominating Stringer for MoM, he did well and was one of our better players. All the established did well, and of the newcomers only Wallace impressed.


As the objective seems to have been to find out what cover we have it was a success - mainly in finding out we still have no F-row cover, Mal is nearing the end and the young b-rowers still have a way to go. Boss can snipe on the wing as well as in the middle. Wallace is a fine place kicker and seems to have some of the nose for an opening (&amp; younger legs than DH).


And that's it folks. Show over. Time to prepare for the 6N.

[who?]

also was crabbing a lot which he doesn't normally do. He also let himself be caught once or twice off the base of a ruck



On the crabbing, you're right; he did start doing that on more than a few occasions.

I wouldn't be critical of him over being caught at the rucks though, given that it seemed to me there were players on the ground interfering with the ball on a number of occasions which the ref missed completely. Getting the ball away under pressure is one of the strongest elements of his game.

But ultimately, until Boss (or anyone else) finds a pass as good as Stringer's, he's going to be second best.

Its a pity they cant get some new material as the
quality of the wumming is very poor. I'd give Dan the fan 1/10 and
Upfront 2/10.Please try harder.
smileys/lol.gif

[Corker]

Corker,


There was a problem with the game around SH, but it wasn't of Stringer's making. We had 2 rookie b-rowers and it showed. At the breakdown Easterby tried a bit, but that's not his forte. 2 others MIA. At scrum time we were untidy and seemed under pressure. With go-forward ball we should have done more. You remember when we got a scrum just outside their 5 line and their blinside cover went missing. It was screaming out for a try to be scored. When Heaslip did eventually pick the ball he went inside - straight into the cover...!!!! Mike I agree with you on this much. My last post did acknowledge the back row protection wasn't the best.



While I wouldn't be nominating Stringer for MoM, he did well and was one of our better players. On this bit I still disagree, so maybe we can agree to disagree ?

[Sin a bhfuil]

As soon as a scrum half places his hands on a ball he is fair game for opposition skulking around fringes of rucks, so naturally you don't put your hands on it until it's free. the presentation of the ball yesterday was not as clean as in the previous two games and as others have said the ref let the PIs away with murder at the rucks. This combination resulted in an uncomfortable afternoon for Stringer but he did okay considering. The one area i'd be critical is the decision making at the scrums - communication was poorbetween himself andheaslip and they took a few wrong options between them. Stringer is not a natural footballer like Boss and hepretty much can't go intocontact (prob why he suffers so few injuries) but the speed and accuracy of the pass to number 10 is what it's all about and he's one of the best in the world on that front. I think we have the perfect impact replacement SH but Stringer is stillcomfortably first choice.

[gelly]

Congradulations MAL

MAL has a great game, scoring his own opertunistic try ,pushing
easterby over for his try and controling the line out, and also active
in the loose shows that he still has what it takes.

Those who doubted him you can eat your humble piesmileys/wink.gif



Also got 28/1 for MAL to score a try so paddy power paid for my beer this weekend
Go MAL



also well done to wallace , shaggy, hickie and POC and Boss all played great

[sewa]

Congradulations MAL

MAL has a great game, scoring his own opertunistic try ,pushing easterby over for his try and controling the line out, and also active in the loose shows that he still has what it takes.
Those who doubted him you can eat your humble piesmileys/wink.gif

Also got 28/1 for MAL to score a try so paddy power paid for my beer this weekend
Go MAL

also well done to wallace , shaggy, hickie and POC and Boss all played great smileys/lol.gif

[gelly]

Congratulations MAL



MAL has a great game, scoring his own opportunistic try

whoops must use spell check from now onsmileys/cool.gif
anywho i stand by it MAL rocks

[gelly]

Ithink paddy power paid for too much beer

[sewa]

They have drugs to cure that sort of rocking now. It may be an indicator of something much more serious though so he should get it checked out.

[McCloud]

Pity he dropped the second one. Nice to see a player scoring a try as they face into the sunset of their international careersmileys/smile.gif

[blackadder]

Ferris and Heaslip were not up to much. Easterby did well. Stringer did what he could but the ball was slow in coming and the ref let an awful lot go at the breakdown. Fitzgerald has a ways to go yet but you can see why hes in the squad. Boss looks a better winger than a scrum half......we couldt turn himinto an austin healy type, wondering inof the wing and confusing the opposition defense(okay maybe not).Not sure if Boss would have been better yesterday.IfBoss had the slower presentation andhis noticeablyslower pass.........it would have beenan even uglier game.I now thinkHickie should start in the first team,yesthats bloody harsh on trimble but hickies come in and shown what he can do. Im still at a lossas towhy he hasnt become a fullback, still has speed and hes a great boot onhim. Wallace looked competent but we've got to get him game time in a pressure situation somewhere.Its not going to happen at ulster so he'll have to start against the argies and maybe come in for a6N game. The Dempsey/Murphy issue remains unsolved.





Agree wholeheartedly with almost all that.


We now have 3 good wingers and agree that Dennis is now ahead of young Trimble in the pecking order. So why would we have Like Fitz near the 22 (or even 30). Yes he's quick - but not fantastically so. It's obvious he's still got a lot to learn - tackling, covering, needs to be able to handle a high ball. A season of ML and maybe the odd 'A' start would probably bring him along. I'd say the same for Heaslip - he let an opportunity slip yesterday. More experience will develop him also.





My Ireland team to play Wales would be


Horan, Best, Hayes, O'Callaghan, O'Connell


Best, Wallace, Leamy, Stringer, O'Gara


Trimble, D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, Horgan, (not sure it's a toss up between dempsey and Murphy).





No doubt nearly everyone here will disagree with me picking Best over Flannery but hey so what! Best is a better scrummager and better in the tight, Flan has a significant edge in the loose, throwing is about equal though i personally suspect Rory has the smallest of edges in this department. We have to see what form Flannery returns to anyway.


Stringer remains number one scrum half because of his relationship with ROG but Boss is putting the pressure on.


I'd still pick Trimble ahead of Hickie, let's not forget how he played against SA, Trimble has both pace and power, something Welsh wingers lack (power that is). Everytime he touched the ball against SA he caused mayhem, i don't understand why people want to drop him for someone who has an eye for the line but seems to run across the pitch a lot.


I think Horan v Young is close they are about equal in the scrum but Horan is better in the loose by a country mile. The rest pretty much picks itself except FB which probably goes to Dempsey for solidity and the fact he is a better attacker than we give him credit for but Murphy played very well against Australia.


That's my view anyway as an unbiased Ulsterman!!!

I think we have to look at the fact that whereas Wales and Scotland lost the 2nd halves and by some margin (did either score in the last 20-30 minutes?) we won both halves and by similar margins. We showed better stamina, better power and better overall performance level than those 2 sides. Now I know some will say that means nothing, it does but they're the comparison we have to make against this side and we did win with a fair bit of ease in the end.


On the players I'd say:


MOK - actually did well at lineout (no surprise), did OK in supporting players who ran near him but to be honest he looked like he doesn't have the gas anymore and actually got in the way a few times rather than helping. BUT, he'd still walk into most (or all) of the other 6N sides and if that was for England, Wales, Scotland or Italy against this opposition the performance would have been classed as a top game.


Ferris/Heaslip - I was surprised by how little Ferris seemed to show but then it occured to me what a good performance that meant he was having. Thing is Easterby was doing his usual role, all the dirty stuff, sticking his body where it can get hurt etc. Heaslip was doing his usual role, standing at 1st, 2nd receiver and looking to carry. Which meant there was a big gap in that back row that needed to be filled. Ferris filled it being being the man sitting in between the 2. Now he wasn't great but I think as a back row he had a better game than Heaslip.


Easterby - considering both tries involved taking the ball high and being hit high he showed immense power. Any time the ball went loose on the deck, s**te ball, spills from PIs, it was Easterby who was on it. That's his forte and he did a great job at it. He's almost certainly made sure he's the #4 back row but right now he's not going to displace the other 3.


Wallace - the only reason I wouldn't give him a 10 is we didn't have to see or get to see a tactical kicking game from him. Other than that he looked great in a tough game (before I was genuinely worried he'd get blown away).





On which point a final comment. Our guys have come on, physically, by a huge amount. We stood up to big hits, cheap shots (Tuillagi should be told to f**k off and come back when he can tackle legally cos he shouldn't be playing union or league with that "technique"), the lot. The guys broke tackles, rode big hits, made big hits and did it for 80 mins. I would guess that's as physical a game as we'll see all 6N. To see a mix and match side come out of it with such a big win and coping physically (d'Arcy driving through tackles from guys 3 or 4 stone bigger than him still sticks in my mind) and with some great skills shows just how far this squad has come.

[mullet is gone]

Ferris and Heaslip were not up to much. Easterby did well. Stringer did what he could but the ball was slow in coming and the ref let an awful lot go at the breakdown. Fitzgerald has a ways to go yet but you can see why hes in the squad. Boss looks a better winger than a scrum half......we couldt turn himinto an austin healy type, wondering inof the wing and confusing the opposition defense(okay maybe not).Not sure if Boss would have been better yesterday.IfBoss had the slower presentation andhis noticeablyslower pass.........it would have beenan even uglier game.I now thinkHickie should start in the first team,yesthats bloody harsh on trimble but hickies come in and shown what he can do. Im still at a lossas towhy he hasnt become a fullback, still has speed and hes a great boot onhim. Wallace looked competent but we've got to get him game time in a pressure situation somewhere.Its not going to happen at ulster so he'll have to start against the argies and maybe come in for a6N game. The Dempsey/Murphy issue remains unsolved.





Agree wholeheartedly with almost all that.


We now have 3 good wingers and agree that Dennis is now ahead of young Trimble in the pecking order. So why would we have Like Fitz near the 22 (or even 30). Yes he's quick - but not fantastically so. It's obvious he's still got a lot to learn - tackling, covering, needs to be able to handle a high ball. A season of ML and maybe the odd 'A' start would probably bring him along. I'd say the same for Heaslip - he let an opportunity slip yesterday. More experience will develop him also.





My Ireland team to play Wales would be


Horan, Best, Hayes, O'Callaghan, O'Connell


Best, Wallace, Leamy, Stringer, O'Gara


Trimble, D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, Horgan, (not sure it's a toss up between dempsey and Murphy).





No doubt nearly everyone here will disagree with me picking Best over Flannery but hey so what! Best is a better scrummager and better in the tight, Flan has a significant edge in the loose, throwing is about equal though i personally suspect Rory has the smallest of edges in this department. We have to see what form Flannery returns to anyway.


Stringer remains number one scrum half because of his relationship with ROG but Boss is putting the pressure on.


I'd still pick Trimble ahead of Hickie, let's not forget how he played against SA, Trimble has both pace and power, something Welsh wingers lack (power that is). Everytime he touched the ball against SA he caused mayhem, i don't understand why people want to drop him for someone who has an eye for the line but seems to run across the pitch a lot.


I think Horan v Young is close they are about equal in the scrum but Horan is better in the loose by a country mile. The rest pretty much picks itself except FB which probably goes to Dempsey for solidity and the fact he is a better attacker than we give him credit for but Murphy played very well against Australia.


That's my view anyway as an unbiased Ulsterman!!!





The Mary celeste would be easier to track down.


p.s.


Flannery if back to form is light years ahead of Best, ditto Horan on Young. Boss is a nice alternative.Trimble/Hickie thing Ive been confused myself up until recently so Ill let you have that.


p.p.s.


Comeback at Millwall.....nice.

[sewa]

Is it time for a thread where we can all apoligise to EOS?

Thinking about FB I'd have to say Dempsey showed a lot of power, he was breaking tackles, driving into them and doing the job we needed. The one question mark, over that try, has to be tempered with the fact that Murphy wouldn't have done any better with it. Do have to say I think Hickie has really lost the edge in pace these days.

[Red Hand Hero]

I have to say i love the harsh comments on the debut boys. I thought after a shaky start Fitzgerald did rightly. He was solid, showed a few nice turns of pace and footwork and didn't panic, and did well to track back on allesani tuilagi and take him down.


Honestly the one eyed defence of stringer is sometimes laughable and whoever concocted this myth that Boss' pass is slow and laboured hasn't watched any Ulster games, or the ireland australia game where the passes were in front of ROG and enabled him to enjoy one of his finest performances in an ireland shirt. I'm not saying stringer had a bad game on sunday, he wasn't protected well at ruck time and the PI's seemed out to try and disrupt possession from the ruck but he still dithered the odd occassion. He also put in a couple of excellent little kicks, equally however was guilty of some poorer efforts with the boot. Stringer, i still believe will start the 6N BUT provided Boss maintains his form for Ulster and puts in a few good efforts of the bench in the 6N that his combative style of play would be more beneficial than stringers approach.


The argument that stringers pass is the quickest in the NH is valid but you have to ask yourself is a (slightly) quicker pass worth more than:


A better boxkick?


A better defender?


A better break?


Giving ROG more time and space on the ball because the fringe defenders can't just run straight at him and not have to worry about the scrumhalf sniping?


You can also slag Boss for not passing sooner for Murphys try and cutting inside but the hard fact remains strings wouldn't have been able to make the break let alone cock it up or finish it off (as Boss' pass of the ground did).

[who?]

Wallace - the only reason I wouldn't give him a 10 is we didn't have to see or get to see a tactical kicking game from him. Other than that he looked great in a tough game (before I was genuinely worried he'd get blown away).


I'd agree with this. I was impressed with how he stood up against a very, very physical side; but I'd still have to dock him points for how he let the game degenerate into a sevens warmup. If he wants to be the 10 in the Irish squad he needs to control the pace of the game better.

The way this game turned out, it was nothing like a 6N (or a crunch World Cup) game - if we played as loose that against New Zealand they'd put 100 points on us - and thus not a great game to judge his ability.

Still, great goal kicking, good pass, and it's great to see a 10 with pace. Hopefully we'll see more of him during the 6N!

[mullet is gone]

Is it time for a thread where we can all apoligise to EOS?











What criticisms werent valid? He has been too slow to think outside the tried and tested in selection and veryconservatve in gameplan. He's changed now, doesnt mean he wasnt f**king up back then.


Besides...........


We still havent won anything yet and even if we do win a 6N , we should have won one already under him. Hes had the best players and stupid amounts of money thrown at him. If he comes through now it doesnt mean he was never wrong. This wasnt all part of his master plan. Wake up.

[sewa]

If Boss is as good as you think we've found quite a player. I remain to be convinced.Interestingly Paddy Wallace praised Stringers good work forcreating the oppurtunityfor his try and Horgans try was the direct result of Stringers kick.If thatsplaying badly...

[sewa]

Is it time for a thread where we can all apoligise to EOS?





What criticisms werent valid? He has been too slow to think outside the tried and tested in selection and veryconservatve in gameplan. He's changed now, doesnt mean he wasnt f**king up back then.


Besides...........


We still havent won anything yet and even if we do win a 6N , we should have won one already under him. Hes had the best players and stupid amounts of money thrown at him. If he comes through now it doesnt mean he was never wrong. This wasnt all part of his master plan. Wake up.


So we are comfortably winning games against SH teams and ran the All Blacks close in NZ despite the coach?

[Red Hand Hero]

Lightyears ahead of Best mulletman? I think finding an unbias musnter man could be just as hard as a unbiased Ulster one...Fla great form that he showed last season but he has to recapture that and do the basics as well as Best has performed during the AI's. One thing, at the moment if we assume that Fla gets back to his best i would say we have the best two hookers in the british isles, if not the NH.


Scots, on the point about |Wallace going into SH getting caught and then the PI's scoring rewind it about 30 seconds and you'll see ireland ended up in the s**t because strings got caught in possession too because just like wallace he wasn't afforded enough protection at the base of the ruck.

[blackadder]

Ferris and Heaslip were not up to much. Easterby did well. Stringer did what he could but the ball was slow in coming and the ref let an awful lot go at the breakdown. Fitzgerald has a ways to go yet but you can see why hes in the squad. Boss looks a better winger than a scrum half......we couldt turn himinto an austin healy type, wondering inof the wing and confusing the opposition defense(okay maybe not).Not sure if Boss would have been better yesterday.IfBoss had the slower presentation andhis noticeablyslower pass.........it would have beenan even uglier game.I now thinkHickie should start in the first team,yesthats bloody harsh on trimble but hickies come in and shown what he can do. Im still at a lossas towhy he hasnt become a fullback, still has speed and hes a great boot onhim. Wallace looked competent but we've got to get him game time in a pressure situation somewhere.Its not going to happen at ulster so he'll have to start against the argies and maybe come in for a6N game. The Dempsey/Murphy issue remains unsolved.





Agree wholeheartedly with almost all that.


We now have 3 good wingers and agree that Dennis is now ahead of young Trimble in the pecking order. So why would we have Like Fitz near the 22 (or even 30). Yes he's quick - but not fantastically so. It's obvious he's still got a lot to learn - tackling, covering, needs to be able to handle a high ball. A season of ML and maybe the odd 'A' start would probably bring him along. I'd say the same for Heaslip - he let an opportunity slip yesterday. More experience will develop him also.





My Ireland team to play Wales would be


Horan, Best, Hayes, O'Callaghan, O'Connell


Best, Wallace, Leamy, Stringer, O'Gara


Trimble, D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, Horgan, (not sure it's a toss up between dempsey and Murphy).





No doubt nearly everyone here will disagree with me picking Best over Flannery but hey so what! Best is a better scrummager and better in the tight, Flan has a significant edge in the loose, throwing is about equal though i personally suspect Rory has the smallest of edges in this department. We have to see what form Flannery returns to anyway.


Stringer remains number one scrum half because of his relationship with ROG but Boss is putting the pressure on.


I'd still pick Trimble ahead of Hickie, let's not forget how he played against SA, Trimble has both pace and power, something Welsh wingers lack (power that is). Everytime he touched the ball against SA he caused mayhem, i don't understand why people want to drop him for someone who has an eye for the line but seems to run across the pitch a lot.


I think Horan v Young is close they are about equal in the scrum but Horan is better in the loose by a country mile. The rest pretty much picks itself except FB which probably goes to Dempsey for solidity and the fact he is a better attacker than we give him credit for but Murphy played very well against Australia.


That's my view anyway as an unbiased Ulsterman!!!





The Mary celeste would be easier to track down.


p.s.


Flannery if back to form is light years ahead of Best, ditto Horan on Young. Boss is a nice alternative.Trimble/Hickie thing Ive been confused myself up until recently so Ill let you have that.


p.p.s.


Comeback at Millwall.....nice.





Yeah i had one eye on Soccer Saturday and one laughable eye on the Eng v SA game on Saturday, fortunately in the end both eyes were very happy with what they'd seen although Forest had more worried at one stage, next Sunday live onBBC 1 the big cup match away to the mighty Salisbury

[mike11]

blackadder, a lot of your guys have come on in leaps. Neil Best is 10 times the player he was last year. I was pleasantly surprised by paddy Wallace's display too. Hopefully DH will give him some time in the FH position for Ulster in coming games.


And I agree with your 6N selection BAR 1 - Hickie has more strings to his bowhas to start instead of Trimble (he's also quicker BTW).


Suppose overall we should be pleased?

[blackadder]

[QUOTE=mullet is gone]


Ferris and Heaslip were not up to much. Easterby did well. Stringer did what he could but the ball was slow in coming and the ref let an awful lot go at the breakdown. Fitzgerald has a ways to go yet but you can see why hes in the squad. Boss looks a better winger than a scrum half......we couldt turn himinto an austin healy type, wondering inof the wing and confusing the opposition defense(okay maybe not).Not sure if Boss would have been better yesterday.IfBoss had the slower presentation andhis noticeablyslower pass.........it would have beenan even uglier game.I now thinkHickie should start in the first team,yesthats bloody harsh on trimble but hickies come in and shown what he can do. Im still at a lossas towhy he hasnt become a fullback, still has speed and hes a great boot onhim. Wallace looked competent but we've got to get him game time in a pressure situation somewhere.Its not going to happen at ulster so he'll have to start against the argies and maybe come in for a6N game. The Dempsey/Murphy issue remains unsolved.





Agree wholeheartedly with almost all that.


We now have 3 good wingers and agree that Dennis is now ahead of young Trimble in the pecking order. So why would we have Like Fitz near the 22 (or even 30). Yes he's quick - but not fantastically so. It's obvious he's still got a lot to learn - tackling, covering, needs to be able to handle a high ball. A season of ML and maybe the odd 'A' start would probably bring him along. I'd say the same for Heaslip - he let an opportunity slip yesterday. More experience will develop him also.





My Ireland team to play Wales would be


Horan, Best, Hayes, O'Callaghan, O'Connell


Best, Wallace, Leamy, Stringer, O'Gara


Trimble, D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, Horgan, (not sure it's a toss up between dempsey and Murphy).





No doubt nearly everyone here will disagree with me picking Best over Flannery but hey so what! Best is a better scrummager and better in the tight, Flan has a significant edge in the loose, throwing is about equal though i personally suspect Rory has the smallest of edges in this department. We have to see what form Flannery returns to anyway.


Stringer remains number one scrum half because of his relationship with ROG but Boss is putting the pressure on.


I'd still pick Trimble ahead of Hickie, let's not forget how he played against SA, Trimble has both pace and power, something Welsh wingers lack (power that is). Everytime he touched the ball against SA he caused mayhem, i don't understand why people want to drop him for someone who has an eye for the line but seems to run across the pitch a lot.


I think Horan v Young is close they are about equal in the scrum but Horan is better in the loose by a country mile. The rest pretty much picks itself except FB which probably goes to Dempsey for solidity and the fact he is a better attacker than we give him credit for but Murphy played very well against Australia.


That's my view anyway as an unbiased Ulsterman!!!





The Mary celeste would be easier to track down.


p.s.


Flannery if back to form is light years ahead of Best, ditto Horan on Young. Boss is a nice alternative.Trimble/Hickie thing Ive been confused myself up until recently so Ill let you have that.


p.p.s.


Comeback at Millwall.....nice.





EDIT- if i wanted to be biased Mullet i'd have Young and Boss in that starting line up...


Ihad one eye on Soccer Saturday and one laughable eye on the Eng v SA game on Saturday, fortunately in the end both eyes were very happy with what they'd seen although

[mullet is gone]

Lightyears ahead of Best mulletman? I think finding an unbias musnter man could be just as hard as a unbiased Ulster one...Fla great form that he showed last season but he has to recapture that and do the basics as well as Best has performed during the AI's. One thing, at the moment if we assume that Fla gets back to his best i would say we have the best two hookers in the british isles, if not the NH.


Scots, on the point about |Wallace going into SH getting caught and then the PI's scoring rewind it about 30 seconds and you'll see ireland ended up in the s**t because strings got caught in possession too because just like wallace he wasn't afforded enough protection at the base of the ruck.





Flannery was making world XVs(edit for stupid numerals)on the back of last year. Ive seen no evidence whatsoever he is surpassed by Best in the scrum, the irishscrum has been average with both of them. Both have solid reputations in the lineout(best lifter and jumper in the world, Hayes and POC)but Flanneryis a muchmore effective player in the loose and causes more damage in the tackle.


So assuming he comes back where he was then yeah he is lightyears ahead.


Look Best has done well but hes done it against an experimental SA and a powder puff ozscrum thatwanted totake their ball and go home when they saw the weather. Lets reel it in for a little bit shall we.

[mullet is gone]

[QUOTE=mike11][QUOTE=mullet is gone]


Ferris and Heaslip were not up to much. Easterby did well. Stringer did what he could but the ball was slow in coming and the ref let an awful lot go at the breakdown. Fitzgerald has a ways to go yet but you can see why hes in the squad. Boss looks a better winger than a scrum half......we couldt turn himinto an austin healy type, wondering inof the wing and confusing the opposition defense(okay maybe not).Not sure if Boss would have been better yesterday.IfBoss had the slower presentation andhis noticeablyslower pass.........it would have beenan even uglier game.I now thinkHickie should start in the first team,yesthats bloody harsh on trimble but hickies come in and shown what he can do. Im still at a lossas towhy he hasnt become a fullback, still has speed and hes a great boot onhim. Wallace looked competent but we've got to get him game time in a pressure situation somewhere.Its not going to happen at ulster so he'll have to start against the argies and maybe come in for a6N game. The Dempsey/Murphy issue remains unsolved.





Agree wholeheartedly with almost all that.


We now have 3 good wingers and agree that Dennis is now ahead of young Trimble in the pecking order. So why would we have Like Fitz near the 22 (or even 30). Yes he's quick - but not fantastically so. It's obvious he's still got a lot to learn - tackling, covering, needs to be able to handle a high ball. A season of ML and maybe the odd 'A' start would probably bring him along. I'd say the same for Heaslip - he let an opportunity slip yesterday. More experience will develop him also.





My Ireland team to play Wales would be


Horan, Best, Hayes, O'Callaghan, O'Connell


Best, Wallace, Leamy, Stringer, O'Gara


Trimble, D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, Horgan, (not sure it's a toss up between dempsey and Murphy).





No doubt nearly everyone here will disagree with me picking Best over Flannery but hey so what! Best is a better scrummager and better in the tight, Flan has a significant edge in the loose, throwing is about equal though i personally suspect Rory has the smallest of edges in this department. We have to see what form Flannery returns to anyway.


Stringer remains number one scrum half because of his relationship with ROG but Boss is putting the pressure on.


I'd still pick Trimble ahead of Hickie, let's not forget how he played against SA, Trimble has both pace and power, something Welsh wingers lack (power that is). Everytime he touched the ball against SA he caused mayhem, i don't understand why people want to drop him for someone who has an eye for the line but seems to run across the pitch a lot.


I think Horan v Young is close they are about equal in the scrum but Horan is better in the loose by a country mile. The rest pretty much picks itself except FB which probably goes to Dempsey for solidity and the fact he is a better attacker than we give him credit for but Murphy played very well against Australia.


That's my view anyway as an unbiased Ulsterman!!!





The Mary celeste would be easier to track down.


p.s.


Flannery if back to form is light years ahead of Best, ditto Horan on Young. Boss is a nice alternative.Trimble/Hickie thing Ive been confused myself up until recently so Ill let you have that.


p.p.s.


Comeback at Millwall.....nice.





EDIT- if i wanted to be biased Mullet i'd have Young and Boss in that starting line up...


Ihad one eye on Soccer Saturday and one laughable eye on the Eng v SA game on Saturday, fortunately in the end both eyes were very happy with what the

[blackadder]

blackadder, a lot of your guys have come on in leaps. Neil Best is 10 times the player he was last year. I was pleasantly surprised by paddy Wallace's display too. Hopefully DH will give him some time in the FH position for Ulster in coming games.


And I agree with your 6N selection BAR 1 - Hickie has more strings to his bowhas to start instead of Trimble (he's also quicker BTW).


Suppose overall we should be pleased?





Ican envisage Trimble winning us games more than Hickie which is partly why i would go for him but to be fair it's irrelevant in a way who is picked as we won't lose anything as a side. For what it's worth i'm failry sure EOS will pick Trimble as he seems to be one of his favourites which we know O'Sullivan (like most coaches to be fair) has.

[blackadder]

Aha i knew it Mullet, you're just a biased turniphead, the truth is out.


Seriously though i can understand why Flannery might be picked ahead of Best, i certainly wouldn't agree in a million years that Flannery is light years of Best. Both players would start in any of the other "home nations".

[mullet is gone]

Aha i knew it Mullet, you're just a biased turniphead, the truth is out.


Seriously though i can understand why Flannery might be picked ahead of Best, i certainly wouldn't agree in a million years that Flannery is light years of Best. Both players would start in any of the other "home nations".





(imagine there is a non patronising b*****d font and that Im using it)I genuinely think the guy is a class apartfrom Best. Thats not to say Best isnt a good player, he is. Its good that he has come through.Withthe injuries we've sustained he has every chance ofstarting at the world cup if Flannery does anything other than set the world alight with munster.


His competence and rugby playing ability wouldpretty much guarantee hed be left out of the england squad.

[Sin a bhfuil]

blackadder, a lot of your guys have come on in leaps. Neil Best is 10 times the player he was last year. I was pleasantly surprised by paddy Wallace's display too. Hopefully DH will give him some time in the FH position for Ulster in coming games.


And I agree with your 6N selection BAR 1 - Hickie has more strings to his bowhas to start instead of Trimble (he's also quicker BTW).


Suppose overall we should be pleased?





Ican envisage Trimble winning us games more than Hickie which is partly why i would go for him but to be fair it's irrelevant in a way who is picked as we won't lose anything as a side. For what it's worth i'm failry sure EOS will pick Trimble as he seems to be one of his favourites which we know O'Sullivan (like most coaches to be fair) has.





Agree it has to be trimble over hickie. I'd say it's less close than you're willing to concede blackadder - trimble is one of the most potent line-breakers in the NH. Hickie's kicking ability is the only advantge he has on trimble. As others have said it would be great to see Hickie have a go at full back - that latham-esque left boot of his could be very useful and arguably better defender than murphy and dempsey. And BTW Mike, Trimble is definitely faster!

[danthefan]

If Trimble is faster than Hickie it's certainly not by an awful lot.

[scotscor]

blackadder, a lot of your guys have come on in leaps. Neil
Best is 10 times the player he was last year. I was pleasantly
surprised by paddy Wallace's display too. Hopefully DH will give
him some time in the FH position for Ulster in coming games.


And I agree with your 6N selection BAR 1 - Hickie has more strings
to his bowhas to start instead of Trimble (he's also quicker BTW).


Suppose overall we should be pleased?





Ican envisage Trimble winning us games more than Hickie which
is partly why i would go for him but to be fair it's irrelevant in a
way who is picked as we won't lose anything as a side. For what it's
worth i'm failry sure EOS will pick Trimble as he seems to be one of
his favourites which we know O'Sullivan (like most coaches to be fair)
has.





Agree it has to be trimble over hickie. I'd say it's less close than
you're willing to concede blackadder - trimble is one of the most
potent line-breakers in the NH. Hickie's kicking ability is the only
advantge he has on trimble. As others have said it would be great to
see Hickie have a go at full back - that latham-esque left boot of his
could be very useful and arguably better defender than murphy and
dempsey. And BTW Mike, Trimble is definitely faster!

I actually think that Hickie ie a better finisher and stepper than Trimble (who has more power).

I was disappointed with Trimble against SA and Fitzgerald against PI,
because on a few occasions they were both run into touch when they had
the outside and I felt should have scored.



To one of the nordies, who pointed out that stringer had been snagged 30 seconds before Wallace, yep thats true.

[bogboy]

Hickie is faster over 3 metres after that Timble would have it


Timble brakes the line with power whereas Hickie would try to wrong foot the defence


Defensively tacklewise Trimble would beat Hickie every time and has a better awareness of the game


Hickie at 31 is still sharp but appears to be losing the pace over distance that he once had if memory serves me I think he was caught from behind once this year which would not have happened 2 seasons ago


The debates about who starts whose bestetc are IMO is a minor distraction I believe EoS has learnt from the Summer Tour that 15 players can't play 3 high qualityInternationals in 3 weeks and that in order to maintain momentum on the pitch forwards require the benefit of new wind by subs in the front row second row and backrow


Previously EoS was subing for tactical reasons eg DH for RoG to inject pace into the backline when the team was behind or subing to waste time near the end of a game a bit like a soccer manager and players going on could achive little impact and the players still on the pitch little benefit from the subs being introduced


He is now subing to maintain the game plan but withfresh bodies for tired


so basically benchforwards know they will be going on between 55- 65 minutes


He also knows he has a pool25+ players from which he may perm a side and that the quality of the team will not be adversely affected by playing A instead of B


Thus he can rest players for either a game or part of a game


The whose the best is so child like as a debate


Every player brings something different to the game and it is permuation of those skills that create the team thus a can be very good for Munster but actual not be that good for Ireland


maybe its because Heslip and Ferris seemed to play a similiar game that neither actually stood out and somethings which poeple think should have been done were left undone but only by playing together over time would the team roles become sorted as toA does B does


instead of A and B doing the same thing

[danthefan]

Defensively tacklewise Trimble would beat Hickie every time and has a better awareness of the game

You're saying Hickie is a bad defender? What matches have you been watching?

[scotscor]

Defensively tacklewise Trimble would beat
Hickie every time and has a better awareness of the game

You're saying Hickie is a bad defender? What matches have you been watching?



Well on super sunday hickie was credited with one tackle out of seven.

[danthefan]

Everyone has bad games, I'm not too worried about that anymore, ancient history.

[bogboy]

Didn't say Hickie was a bad defender said Trimble was a better tackler which is a slightly different thing


Hickie himself would admit he is entering the twilight of his International career he still has something to offer and will be part of the squad for the RWC but after that??


As I said each player brings something different and it depends on how the game is to be played


Eg there is little point in kicking a ball either back at the ABs or kicking it into touch because either option gives possession back to the ABs so the basic approach is to run for or tosupport running into space the ABs will isolate you and win the turnover


Some posters have taken up the Hook line that Wallace feiled to impose a structure to the game the game yesterday was never going to be structured because the PIs don;t play a structured game they play a reactionary game run at you from anywhere and lacking a structured approach set out to spoil at the brake down


The nature of their game then fails to allow a structured game to emerge to be seen to emerge


Having obtained a two score pointsmargin and a safe suppy of possession encourages an open game of rugby thus kicking for position at the expense of possession is not really necessary or a desired option


Therefore yes it is still to be seen as to whether Wallace can impose a structurebut that it did not happen yesterday was not a failing on his part

[danthefan]

You said Trimble would beat Hickie every time, which to me anyway said something about Hickies defensive capabilities, which are pretty solid.

And in interviews earlier in the year Hickie expressed one of his main goals for the season was to get back in the Ireland side, the guy is a pro and he wouldn't be there if he wasn't deserving of the spot, he obviously feels he's able for it. In fact, in what aspects is his age showing at all? (Apart from the thinning hair!)

And I'd say you'll find a lot of what you do against the ABs is pretty futile, from what you're saying crash ball type thing is what Trimble is good at, that isn't gonna work against their defence at all. In fact you could argue their line-out is their one weak(ish) link and possibly the best area of their game to target.

And I agree with Wallace, the game was never going to have a proper structure, he showed he had good hands, decent defence (sure doesn't he play 12 for Ulster) and good place kicking which are traits that will remain no matter who the opposition.

[bogboy]

I think your chances of beating the ABs in the lineout on their throw about 1 in 10 at best


I said you have to find and run to support provided you dictate the time and place of breakdown you have a reasonable chance of retaining possession against the ABs since if they do not believe they will win the ruck or maul they don't commit players to it but pack the defensive line to ensure that they are three on one at some point to dictateat next point of breakdown


1 tackles 2 goes for the ball and the third blocks the on coming support


And that's a structured game with a structured approach


The Abs are willing to lose on phase one provided they can have the opportunity to win the next

You said Trimble would beat Hickie every time, which to me anyway said something about Hickies defensive capabilities, which are pretty solid.

And in interviews earlier in the year Hickie expressed one of his main goals for the season was to get back in the Ireland side, the guy is a pro and he wouldn't be there if he wasn't deserving of the spot, he obviously feels he's able for it. In fact, in what aspects is his age showing at all? (Apart from the thinning hair!)...





Hickie is a fine player but he is the past.

Trimble is young. He is both the present and the future. He offers much greater physicality and bible thumping potential. He also has a decent thatch smileys/lol.gif

[dropkick]

There's not much between them. Trimble because like Horgan he is dangerous coming in off the wing (like his try against SA). Hickie because of his experiance and finishing ability.

blackadder, a lot of your guys have come on in leaps. Neil Best is 10 times the player he was last year. I was pleasantly surprised by paddy Wallace's display too. Hopefully DH will give him some time in the FH position for Ulster in coming games.


And I agree with your 6N selection BAR 1 - Hickie has more strings to his bowhas to start instead of Trimble (he's also quicker BTW).


Suppose overall we should be pleased?





Actually Mike I think from the Ireland training stats, Trimble is the quickest in the squad, juat ahead of Hickie and Ferris of all people.

[Cathal]

I was under the impression that those training stats aren't released? I've heard varying reports over who's fastest but not sure I put much stock in them.

[Terracetoff]

On the Trimble/Hickie debate I think we are very lucky to have such
good players vying for places. They are a bit different; Trimble runs
some great lines (not always seen by others) and has explosive pace,
particularly when he hits the ball. Hickie doesn't appear as explosive
but is a trickier runner with dancing feet. I would like to see Hickie get
a run at full back as I remain unconvinced by Murphy - I think he is
living on a past reputation - and Dennis has the attributes to cover full
back. Alternatively Trimble is a better centre than winger but he can
only understudy the two incumbents there.

[LLCOOLJ14]

Didnt get to see the game as Im over in the States for a few weeks...read all the posts though...good to see peoples opinions!


There hasnt been much talk of Luke Fitz...any1 care to say how he did? Not saying he will be in th eWC team, but he should be in the squad,IMO..with Hickie/Dempsey at the end of their international careers after it, he is a natural sucessor to have in there....what stage did he go to FB and how did he do there specifically?


Glad to hear Wallace did well at 10...cant see him playing any 6N games...unless we are hammering any1 with 20 mins to go...


Two other slight worrys for me after the AI's:


1- What happens if the bull is injured?


2- Who plays in the centre if Darcy/Bod are out? I Would have liked to have seen Trimble get some time there(I know he's ben injured) but defo dont think we should be playing Horgan there...is that where he played V PI's?

[mtcmolloy]

sorry gents,


Anyone know of any footage of the game? I'm hearing great things about paddy wallace and luke Fitz.

[mtcmolloy]

On the Trimble/Hickie debate I think we are very lucky to have such
good players vying for places. They are a bit different; Trimble runs
some great lines (not always seen by others) and has explosive pace,
particularly when he hits the ball. Hickie doesn't appear as explosive
but is a trickier runner with dancing feet. I would like to see Hickie get
a run at full back as I remain unconvinced by Murphy - I think he is
living on a past reputation - and Dennis has the attributes to cover full
back. Alternatively Trimble is a better centre than winger but he can
only understudy the two incumbents there.


I've been saying this about hickie for donkey's. but how about fitzgerald. Did he not impress. Didn't see the game. Not shown in U.S.

[mike11]

...... but how about fitzgerald. Did he not impress - quick answer - no. Didn't see the game. Not shown in U.S.





Wallace was the only rookie to impress. Fitzgerald has a lot to learn - needs to get a season or 2 in ML and work on his basics.


--------


And lads - get real on Trimble. He's got fair speed (there's a few in the squad with quicker stats), but then most back-3 players have; he's not going to win the Olympic 100. Hickie is sub-11 100m, but his real strength is in knowing what to do - and then doing it. Trimble had better chances than Hickie's try against Oz, yet he was comfortably managed by the defense. Trimble is a strong direct runner, and young enough to learn a few more tricks. He has potential to be a great back, and has shown us cameos of what he is capable of. Still learning and hopefully will turn into a great player- but where? Centre or wing?


Isn't it great that we now have 3 more than competent wingers - and all with different styles and strengths. Bet Andy Robinson would love to have even one of those three available to him.


(BTW, I'm old enough to remember when Hickie was embarrassed inhis first tour to SA, but credit to him for learning from it and coming back and putting his game together).

[mikerob]

sorry gents,


Anyone know of any footage of the game? I'm hearing great
things about paddy wallace and luke Fitz.

check out the video section of www.uafc.co.uk

[danthefan]

I still want to see G. Murphy given a shot on the wing, doesn't seem likely though.

And no Fitgerald didn't set the world on fire by any means, seemed very nervous and said afterwards he found it hard to come to terms with the physicality. Didn't play terribly mind, and still showed some great potential.

[sewa]

I still want to see G. Murphy given a shot on the wing, doesn't seem likely though.

And no Fitgerald didn't set the world on fire by any means, seemed very nervous and said afterwards he found it hard to come to terms with the physicality. Didn't play terribly mind, and still showed some great potential.



Iseem to recall posting that he was being thrown in at the deep end last week and completely over hyped. He would have been better off earning his first team place and getting a good few games with his province b/4 being dropped in it.

[Red Hand Hero]

I think Fitzgerald did rightly after a shaky start which wasn't helped by a hospital pass from his captain around 20/25minutes which thankfully he dealt as well as could be expected. He may well have found the physicality a step up but that was always going to happen, thats life. IMO he's made the step against a physical side and came away with reputation and confidence intact and that should help him along the way. The monkey is off his back (liked how wallace described it) and he can now focus on impressing when he gets his chances for \Leinster.


I think some people are being more than a little harsh on Fitzgerald and the other debutants for that matter. I didn't think any of them had a poor game and that i would not be overly worried if they had to step into the breach come 6N for thesquad/team.

[sewa]

Its not criticism of him RHH but rather the decision to throw him staright in when he is so young and inexperienced. He was playing schools rugby last season, has played only a handful of games for Leinster and yes I would be extremely worried if we were up against Wales or France with him playing. Thats not saying he wont make it because I reckon in 2 or 3 years time he will. Look at Kearney as an example of what can happena young guysconfidence. Leinster arent even including him in there first team squads much any more.

[bogboy]

Any back would find it hard to get into the Leinster squad at the moment with D'Arcy and BoD Hickey Hogan and Dempsey when they are all fit


And it does give the young guys a couple of years to mature before being ob=ver exposed to the wolves of the message boards


But players like the above can't play forever and some will not be around for the RWC in 2011 and that squad will have to be assembled over 2008/09/10


Those years seem well down the road but then in 2003 2007 looked well down the road to the English management


who had totally failed to prepare for anything other than 2003

[Sin a bhfuil]

Its not criticism of him RHH but rather the decision to throw him staright in when he is so young and inexperienced. He was playing schools rugby last season, has played only a handful of games for Leinster and yes I would be extremely worried if we were up against Wales or France with him playing. Thats not saying he wont make it because I reckon in 2 or 3 years time he will. Look at Kearney as an example of what can happena young guysconfidence. Leinster arent even including him in there first team squads much any more.





Have to disagree with ya Sewa, if you're good enough, you're old enough. We've held off on gambling on young players for too long in this country. The SH teams are never afraid to give 19/ 20 year olds a go (granted that NZ guys can be a bit more developed physically). He's not going to be played against the likes of Wales/ France in the 6N but would be great to see him get 10-15 mins against scotland or italy. If this ladis as good as the likes of BODandco say heis then playing with the best players will be best for his development.

[sewa]

Its not criticism of him RHH but rather the decision to throw him staright in when he is so young and inexperienced. He was playing schools rugby last season, has played only a handful of games for Leinster and yes I would be extremely worried if we were up against Wales or France with him playing. Thats not saying he wont make it because I reckon in 2 or 3 years time he will. Look at Kearney as an example of what can happena young guysconfidence. Leinster arent even including him in there first team squads much any more.





Have to disagree with ya Sewa, if you're good enough, you're old enough. We've held off on gambling on young players for too long in this country. The SH teams are never afraid to give 19/ 20 year olds a go (granted that NZ guys can be a bit more developed physically). He's not going to be played against the likes of Wales/ France in the 6N but would be great to see him get 10-15 mins against scotland or italy. If this ladis as good as the likes of BODandco say heis then playing with the best players will be best for his development.


I think your underestimating Scotland and Italy and secondly it was absolutely clear from Fitzgeralds performance that whiel he is talented he is not ready. Its different if the guy is ready but to me he clearly isnt and would be better off getting some game time at a slightlylower level first. Its not like he would be playing with a load of amateurs at Leinster either. He would be playing with BOD, Darcy, Horgan, Girveetc.

[mike11]

....


And no Fitgerald didn't set the world on fire by any means, seemed very nervous and said afterwards he found it hard to come to terms with the physicality. Didn't play terribly mind, and still showed some great potential.



Don't know what your measure of terrible is but Luke certainly didn't perfom at the level required for test rugby - and that is the consensus all round. He needs to develop quite a few aspects of his game first. I'm not saying that he doesn'yt have potential. Just that he need to work on his game and get to the level of the incumbents. He has plenty of role models in D'Arcy, Hickie, Horgan, Dempsey, etc that he can learn from and hopefully one day emulate. Whether it's Leinster in the ML or Ireland U21 or 'A', he has to look at where he's at and where he wants to go - and then knuckle down to it. And best of luck to him.


What we don't want is another Matthew Tait.

[Rogfan]

Don't know what your measure of terrible is but Luke
certainly didn't perfom at the level required for test rugby - and that
is the consensus all round.



No its not. Its the consensus amongst some of the supporters on
this thread, but everywhere else the consensus is that after a nervous
start he played well, particularly when moved to full back, and
demonstrated some very good skills, his break, his involvment in Paddy
Wallaces try, his two last man tackles and his kicking.

[mike11]

rogfan,


suggest you read the papers, see what Sky and others had to say (Hook was very put-downish - too strong IMO), orgo back over the tape yourself. Yes, he has potential. But a test game (against anyone) isn't a Leinster schools game. That's the level he's coming from. The guy needs a chance - not to be setup in a situation for which he's not ready or prepared. Which was why I mentioned Tait.


What you you want to do to the guy? Finish him before he gets a chance to start?

[Rogfan]

rogfan,


suggest you read the papers, see what Sky and others had to say
(Hook was very put-downish - too strong IMO), orgo back over the
tape yourself. Yes, he has potential. But a test game
(against anyone) isn't a Leinster schools game.
That's the level he's coming from. The guy needs a chance - not
to be setup in a situation for which he's not ready or prepared.
Which was why I mentioned Tait.


What you you want to do to the guy? Finish him before he gets a chance to start?



I've seen the game plenty of times, and I'll value Hooks opinion the day after I have sex with Winona Ryder.



He started nervously and ended up playing well. He is physically
capable of playing at this level as this game and the A game
proved. He has all the skills required to play at this level
easily. Comparing Luke Fitzgerald to Matthew Tait is like
comparing Joe Rokocoko to Mary Harney, Tait just isn't in Fitzgeralds
league (or in the league of any back playing for any of the three main
provinces quite frankly).

[lahinch_lass]

rogfan I think you might be over-reacting to mike's views.


I'd fall somewhere between where the 2 of you are at. Fitzgerald certainly showed the potential which obviously has the leinster faithful so enamoured of him But just as obviously wasn't entirely comfortable on the field either.


Primarily due to experience.. you could see him trying to think what to do whenever he got the ball, in a competitive international level that hesitancy would get him creamed and probably lose the ball. But he looks like he has the right instincts and may well be just a step shy of making the grade at international level right now. but only right now .. if he gets game time with Leinster &amp; ireland between now and the WC then it's quite possible he could be a very valuable addition to the WC squad. but only if he gets that experience behind him.


Think back to Barry Murphy's initial appearances with munster last season, it took him right up until the castres game to believe in his own judgment &amp; abilities at munster level. 6Nations/WC is another step above that again. The PI game was probably a step below HEC level, in fact there's ML games that are regularly tougher than the PI game - tactically anyway if not physically.


Fitzgerald is definitely a player to keep in mind - very like Manning's first outing with Munster last season, but look how manning started this season.


I wouldn't recommend judging any player on a single performance, but on the plus side Fitszgeralds first performance was definitely more positive than negative in the chances of keeping him on the ireland squad.

[sewa]

rogfan,


suggest you read the papers, see what Sky and others had to say (Hook was very put-downish - too strong IMO), orgo back over the tape yourself. Yes, he has potential. But a test game (against anyone) isn't a Leinster schools game. That's the level he's coming from. The guy needs a chance - not to be setup in a situation for which he's not ready or prepared. Which was why I mentioned Tait.


What you you want to do to the guy? Finish him before he gets a chance to start?




I've seen the game plenty of times, and I'll value Hooks opinion the day after I have sex with Winona Ryder.

He started nervously and ended up playing well. He is physically capable of playing at this level as this game and the A game proved. He has all the skills required to play at this level easily. Comparing Luke Fitzgerald to Matthew Tait is like comparing Joe Rokocoko to Mary Harney, Tait just isn't in Fitzgeralds league (or in the league of any back playing for any of the three main provinces quite frankly).



Tait is going to develop into a fantastic player. He has been hampered by a desperately poor coach and team with england but he has great skills and pace to burn. Posting this proves you watch very little rugby.

[danthefan]

Tait would certainly get into one of Leinster, Munster or Ulsters starting line up. You can't have seen him play apart from in a s**te England side.

[Rogfan]

Tait would certainly get into one of Leinster, Munster or Ulsters starting line up. You can't have seen him play apart from in a s**te England side.


So what you are saying is that hes worse than five out of the six centres in the three provinces then. That either Barry Murphy or Paddy Wallace are better centres than him (because I know you didn't mean O'Driscoll). Wow, what a superstar.





Tait is going to develop into a fantastic player. He
has been hampered by a desperately poor coach and team with england but
he has great skills and pace to burn. Posting this proves you watch
very little rugby.


And posting that proves you are talking through your
gicker, as he has played 4 times this season, only twice in the GP and
only of those games received live coverage.

[blackadder]

Tait was handled badly by Robinson. Tait's test debut against Wales was actually a reasonable performance, it's just the second most memorable moment from that game (after Chav's winning kick) was the Chav lifting Tait up with one hand and dumping him on his arse. People talk about hoping young players don't a do a "Tait" but that was all Robinson's making.


EOS is ten times shrewder than Robinson (i didn't think i'd say that about EOS 9 months ago) and a similar situation won't happen. Fitzgerald will hardly feature for Ireland again before we tour Argentina, between now and then he has Leinster, Ireland A, Ireland U21s and even Ireland U19s to concentrate on! Feck he could even play for Blackrock College U20s!

[sewa]

Tait would certainly get into one of Leinster, Munster or Ulsters starting line up. You can't have seen him play apart from in a s**te England side.

So what you are saying is that hes worse than five out of the six centres in the three provinces then. That either Barry Murphy or Paddy Wallace are better centres than him (because I know you didn't mean O'Driscoll). Wow, what a superstar.





Tait is going to develop into a fantastic player. He has been hampered by a desperately poor coach and team with england but he has great skills and pace to burn. Posting this proves you watch very little rugby.





And posting that proves you are talking through your gicker, as he has played 4 times this season, only twice in the GP and only of those games received live coverage.



I didnt realise we were restricted to judging players on only one season. When did this rule come in? smileys/lol.gifsmileys/shock.gifsmileys/lol.gif

[Rogfan]

Tait would certainly get
into one of Leinster, Munster or Ulsters starting line up. You can't
have seen him play apart from in a s**te England side.

So
what you are saying is that hes worse than five out of the six centres
in the three provinces then. That either Barry Murphy or Paddy
Wallace are better centres than him (because I know you didn't mean
O'Driscoll). Wow, what a superstar.





Tait is going to develop into a fantastic player. He has been
hampered by a desperately poor coach and team with england but he has
great skills and pace to burn. Posting this proves you watch very
little rugby.





And posting that proves you are talking through your gicker, as he has played 4 times this season, only twice in the GP and only of those games received live coverage.



I didnt realise we were restricted to judging players on only one season. When did this rule come in? smileys/lol.gifsmileys/shock.gifsmileys/lol.gif






25th November 1915.

[danthefan]

Out of interest Rogfan how many times has Murphy played this season? He can't have played many games either, seems like one of your criteria for judging players.

[Rogfan]

Out of interest Rogfan how many times has Murphy
played this season? He can't have played many games either, seems like
one of your criteria for judging players.




Yes, but I don't think that Barry Murphy is all that great
either. One good game in over three years is not international
quality

[sewa]

Out of interest Rogfan how many times has Murphy played this season? He can't have played many games either, seems like one of your criteria for judging players.

Yes, but I don't think that Barry Murphy is all that great either. One good game in over three years is not international quality



One good game in three years?I assume you've seen everysingle game he has played over that period to make such ajudgement. That or your prone to stupid comments. smileys/cool.gif

[Rogfan]

Out of interest Rogfan
how many times has Murphy played this season? He can't have played many
games either, seems like one of your criteria for judging players.


Yes, but I don't think that Barry Murphy is all that
great either. One good game in over three years is not
international quality



One good game in three years?I assume you've seen
everysingle game he has played over that period to make such
ajudgement. That or your prone to stupid comments. smileys/cool.gif



Pretty much, yes. Oh hes quick, has a good step and tackles well,
but he has hard hands and his decision making is very poor.

[mike11]

L-L,


Don't disagree with any of what you have posted there re. young Fitzgerald, BUT....


You have to remember the purpose of playing him in the 'A' game and then against the PIs. It was to see if he could step up to test-level. In that respect you have to compare his performance (not potential) against what the likes of Shaggy, Hickie, , Trimble, Girve, D'Arcy, etc have been doing, and also against the likes of Latham, Muliana, Sivivatu, etc. That is the standard that we (Ireland)are now at, and the standard that we aim to compete with (&amp; beat).


Which is why Luke Fitz has to continue to work on his game and the deficiencies that were exposed on Sunday. As others have said game timewith Leinster, Irl U21 and 'A' should also help to bring him on.

[sewa]

Out of interest Rogfan how many times has Murphy played this season? He can't have played many games either, seems like one of your criteria for judging players.

Yes, but I don't think that Barry Murphy is all that great either. One good game in over three years is not international quality



One good game in three years?I assume you've seen everysingle game he has played over that period to make such ajudgement. That or your prone to stupid comments. smileys/cool.gif




Pretty much, yes. Oh hes quick, has a good step and tackles well, but he has hard hands and his decision making is very poor.



So your not actually in a position to say that he has only ever played one good game? Why does that surprise me smileys/lol.gif

[Rogfan]

Out of interest Rogfan how many times
has Murphy played this season? He can't have played many games either,
seems like one of your criteria for judging players.

Yes,
but I don't think that Barry Murphy is all that great either. One
good game in over three years is not international quality



One good game in three years?I assume you've seen
everysingle game he has played over that period to make such
ajudgement. That or your prone to stupid comments. smileys/cool.gif




Pretty much, yes. Oh hes quick, has a good step and tackles well, but he has hard hands and his decision making is very poor.



So your not actually in a position to say that he has only ever played one good game? Why does that surprise me smileys/lol.gif






Prove me wrong.

[Jenta]

Prove me wrong.



One good game in 3 years? FFS. He spent most of the two years previous to last season injured, when he wasn't he was helping bohs achieve promotion and playing well enough to stay in Deccie's plans. He played brilliantly in the final 3 group games of last season, notably in Castres. He was also consistent in the Celtic League. He was then injured again and has only made a proper comeback in the last couple of months, turning in a brilliant performance against Bourgoin in the process.

[bogboy]

I don't think deficiencies is the appropriate word


the PIs were always going to a hard for him since they (PIs) are all heavyset players who are not scared of the knocks and hit hard


Its just the physical level he was not use to and its one of the reasons they introduced U19 and U21 Rugby


I don't think he is up to the physical mark yet to cope with professional mature physical players and for that reason I don't think he'll be on the bench come the 6N


But he could well be in the squad because some players can mature quickly over the period of a year


If that happens then he could be included in RWC squad

[bogboy]

As an International Centre I think with regards to Murphy the Juries still out


Being good at League level is no guarantee that you can play at International level


sometimes a player can be a big fish in a small pond


Then there are the players who if you put them in a big pond they become bigger


eg Paddy Wallace looked competent in the Chuchill Cup but nothing to special but the quality of his game improved with the quality of the players round him on sunday


Murphy is worth a try but I fear he may not be as great as the expections of some of those singing his praises (its the big fish small pond thing I fear )

[Upfront_1979]

murphy looked tiny in an ireland jersey for the A game and did'nt stand out, although terrible service from reddan and staunton did'nt help.

[Jenta]

You can add Lewis to the terrible service list, Barry got the ball off him about twice.

[sewa]

Out of interest Rogfan how many times has Murphy played this season? He can't have played many games either, seems like one of your criteria for judging players.

Yes, but I don't think that Barry Murphy is all that great either. One good game in over three years is not international quality



One good game in three years?I assume you've seen everysingle game he has played over that period to make such ajudgement. That or your prone to stupid comments. smileys/cool.gif




Pretty much, yes. Oh hes quick, has a good step and tackles well, but he has hard hands and his decision making is very poor.



So your not actually in a position to say that he has only ever played one good game? Why does that surprise me smileys/lol.gif







Prove me wrong.



Yet again your displaying a very limited knowledge of the english language. The only thing we can do is express an opinion. Its my opinion that BOD played well against France the day he scored three tries. CanI prove it? No.


If what your asking is have I seen Barry play well more than once thenin my opinionyes would be the answer.

[RugbyBug]

I think Murphy has great potential to be an international standard 13, probably more potential than Lewis, but until he gets a bit more physical in the tackle area (tackling, holding onto possession)and improves his distribution going left to right I think HEC is about as far as he'll go. He's still young and i think if he could get through the next year without injury u'll see a vast improvement from him. He has got speed, a great eye for a gap and seems to be in the right place at the right time to score important trys (Sale, Castres)

[Rogfan]

Yet again @@@@SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">your@@@@/SPAN> displaying a v@@@@SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">ery limited knowledge of the english language@@@@/SPAN>. The only thing we can do is express an opinion. @@@@SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">Its@@@@/SPAN> my opinion that BOD played well against France the day he scored three tries. CanI prove it? No.


If what @@@@SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">your@@@@/SPAN> asking is have I seen Barry play well more than once thenin my opinionyes would be the answer.




If you're going to criticise someones command of a language, it would behoove you to at least display some basic knowledge of it yourself

[JoeyFantastic]

Rogfan, Murphy was voted onto the AIL team of the season when he was only 21, after a series of excellant displays for UL/Bohemians (despite being behind a very weak UL/Boh's pack too). He is an excellant prospect, but needs a run of games, he has been very unlucky with injuries.

[Mcork]

I would say that until a player is played at INTL in what resembles a
1st team you cannot judge a players worth at INTL level. Great club
players have failed to bring their form to INTL level (Conor O'Shea)
while what people would regard as average club players have managed to
bring the same level of performance up a notch to deal with the greater
intensity, speed at INT level(Stringer being an example). You dont want
to judge Murphy just yet on the basis of half a HEC season. Anyway
there's 3 possible 4 players (rightly) ahead of him in line for Irish
centre spots.

Murphy has a lot of great attributes. Pace, step, carries the ball in 2 hands, eye for a gap, runs great lines and is becoming more physical. Had he not broken his leg he would have been on the A tour in the summer and would have continued to develop. (In fact you'd have to say had he not lost so much time to injuries he would have hit the radar much earlier). By all accounts his centre partner didn't help him and I have to say form what I've seen of him Lewis isn't the player he appeared to be heading to be a couple of seasons back. Neither is in EOS's first team plans as the centres would be BOD, GDA, Horgan, Trimble and probably Wallace before either of them.


On Hickie/Trimble. Trimble isn't a great accelerator but after the initial few metres he has an amazing pick up and really fast flat speed. He gave Howlett a head start in the summer (having had to turn) and caught him by the line over a 40m race. That's pretty fast pace. Hickie at his best (between 2000 and 2003) was easily as quick as anyone around then or today. He also had an ability to go from jogging to flying in a step that left people floundering. He doesn't have that burst anymore and doesn't have the distance pace he used to. That try against France in 97 or 98 stands out. Near our 22, all facing our line, intercepted, turned, outsprinted French wing &amp; FB with no advantages at all (he'd had to turn as well not just them) was real pace. When he came back in 2000 he had if anything added a bit more. Again against France there's one moment that sticks where he drifted across the pitch, not really going anywhere with the French in a line ahead, then saw a gap in that line and was through it before anyone else could react and just went away from them.


I don't think he has that any more. The Keogh try for Leinster against Gloucester showed that. A couple of years back Baiiley wouldn't have got close to Hickie. Also against PI he got caught repeatedly by kicks. Where a couple of years ago England tried that and got no change, the man may have got the ball but he got nowhere cos Hickie had him covered with ease, against PIs he was struggling to live with their pace out wide. Something I didn't expect to see. I've been a fan of Hickie since he first made Ireland side and would have few worries about him at international level but I think we have to accept that pace wise he's not the man he was. Having said that, if you watch him when he gets into his stride he does cruise across the ground and over that middle distance of 20-40m he is still very quick.

[sewa]

Lewis is a comfort zone player. He would rather sit on benchesin Leinster where he will never be a no 1 choice than challenge himself by moving to another club. You can have all the talent in the world but with that attitude your goosed b/4 you even start.

That's occured to me as well. He looked great a couple of seasons back and in fact when he was getting game time and no one knew what was happening with the others he looked a confident player. To me he's looked very ordinary and in fact has looked incapable of beating people in the games I've seen him play for Leinster this season.