Keane is at it again.....

[kc73]

Keane stands by attack on Ireland as former skipper vows to take on players who disagree
By SPORTSMAIL REPORTER (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Sportsmail+Reporter)PUBLISHED: 09:31 GMT, 17 June 2012 | UPDATED: 09:31 GMT, 17 June 2012

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Outspoken former Republic of Ireland captain Roy Keane has ramped up his criticism of his national side - and declared himself ready to take on anyone in the squad who disagrees with him.
In the wake of Ireland`s tournament-ending 4-0 defeat to Spain on Thursday - their second Euro 2012 defeat in two games - Keane was highly critical of those involved in Gdansk and was annoyed by the way the players were serenaded from the stands despite their heavy loss.
His outburst has caused a stir in Irish football circles, with goalkeeper Shay Given refuting Keane's claims the side were only at the tournament for a 'sing-song', while manager Giovanni Trapattoni told Keane to concentrate on his own coaching career.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/06/17/article-2160541-139CE69B000005DC-922_468x286.jpgDown in the dumps: Ireland were knocked out after losing to Spain

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05_05/euro2012emailbutton_308x100.jpg (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2132127/Euro-2012-Olympics-emails--sign-today.html)


The 40-year-old was unrepentant, though, using his column in the Sun to resume his broadside.
'You'll never beat the Irish?' he wrote of a popular terrace chant.
'It's time for that song to be put away because, at the moment, everyone is beating them. I'm sick of this "win, lose, we're on the booze" mentality. It has to change.'Keane notoriously walked out of Ireland's 2002 World Cup campaign, meaning some fans have refused to give his comments any credence.
But the former Manchester United midfielder is ready to stand by his comments, especially if challenged by players he believes do not deserve their place in the side.
'The likes of (Robbie) Keane, Shay Given, Richard Dunne, John O'Shea and Damien Duff are picked every game as they have a big reputation. A reputation for what? They hadn't qualified for anything in 10 years,' he said.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/06/17/article-2160541-139D2850000005DC-485_468x299.jpgAppreciated: The Ireland players salute their fans after bowing out of Euro 2012

'They love having a dig back when I say something but I tell you now, I'll be ready if they do because players have to be accountable for how the team did.
'I'm trying to be constructive but the manager and players all have to be accountable. It's not good shrugging our shoulders and having a sing-song.'
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/06/17/article-2160541-132538E3000005DC-334_306x373.jpgNo holding back: Roy Keane

Keane did seek to clarify his comments about the supporters, though, adding: 'People seem to have misunderstood me. I've no problems with the fans singing.
'It's great that they back the team during and before games - but should they really stay on long after the final whistle cheering?
'There's a danger that the players think that what has happened on the pitch is acceptable, when it's not.'Trapattoni has come in for criticism in some quarters for a perceived safe tactical approach, but Keane believes the problem lies in the fact that the players he has are not in good enough form.
He highlighted the likes of Wolves pair Kevin Doyle and Stephen Hunt, saying: 'I can't think of one player who has had a good season at club level.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/06/17/article-2160541-139D628B000005DC-934_468x305.jpgStill singing: Ireland fans travelled to Poland in their thousands

'A couple of years ago Kevin Doyle was linked with Arsenal. Now he's heading back to the Championship. Stephen Hunt has been relegated three times in five years.
'Their club form is poor and no player has come out of the two games with any credit. Not one. That's why Giovanni Trapattoni should make 11 changes against Italy.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/euro2012/article-2160541/Euro-2012-Roy-Keane-stands-attack-Ireland.html#ixzz1y36UYUwN

[kc73]

Once a Pr1ck always a pr1ck!!!!!

[huron]

And that's exactly what a successful team needs!

Can you honestly tell me that Wavey Arms Nobbie Keane has deserved to be next or near any international football team for the past four or five years?

I'd rather have a p*ick on board than a passenger!

[Tobyglen]

Spot on, he's rightly calling the players out. Bunch of overpaid primadonnas. Hunt on 40K a week? Grossly overpaid & a brutal team. I thought they would at least have put on some sort of show.

This greatest supporters in the world is nauseating. Nobody goes to watch Irish games in the Aviva. Where were the supporters during qualifying? Attendances were pitiful. The reason so many travelled over was an excuse to get away from the missus, get drunk, watch a bit of footie & get a few Polish whores. The football was a side issue for many. Nobody does a bandwagon & party better than us & fair play to them.

[lactose intolerant]

Can we please put Roy Keane into the Stephen Jones pile of irrelevant ****s whose opinions no longer get posted here??


He can go fist himself tbh, what an absolute caricature of himself he has become!! an embarrassment

[Tobyglen]

Can we please put Roy Keane into the Stephen Jones pile of irrelevant ****s whose opinions no longer get posted here??


He can go fist himself tbh, what an absolute caricature of himself he has become!! an embarrassment
He's entertaining & this time he's right. He can be a hypocrite but the game would be less without characters & players like Keane.

[Dowlinz]

I can honestly say there's scarcely been a moment I felt ashamed of our public image more than this week. I don't really like how this point of view is practically credited to Roy Keane at this stage, this is what I and many thought before we even heard of Keanes babbling (who the **** watches ITV anyway?) so its a bit disrespectful with the current media slant of your view is either correct or influenced by Roy Keane (who they continue to ridicule to dampen that side of things). The rest of the world will love us, we spend tons of money there, travel in droves and exude positive feelings regardless of what happens. Whats not to love and the Irish media being the Irish media will let their keeping up appearances be the last thing to fall.

So I don't blame what the UK media thinks of was, how much the Polish enjoyed us over there or what every random foreign player tweets about us. In their position I would take the exact same view because we are the ideal tournament accompaniment to any outsider. But we are not viewing this as outsiders so quoting them to prove your point is empty at best.

We have a bunch of supporters who don't follow our qualifiers, have general very poor attendance and tv interest in any of our matches outside of tournament time and our national league is amongst the worst in Europe. Why? Primarily low attendance and interest. The average attendance last season was 1,600 to put a figure on just how good our supporters are.
To put an economic spin on things, check out Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greeces attendance at these games. Other countries in financial difficulties such as ourselves have foregone such luxuries as month long holidays abroad. Not the Irish, oh no. The Irish save up all year and spend their hard earned cash in the one place that'll never get injected into the Irish economy, they care as much about our economy as they do our success. Before long I'm sure they'll be taking their Celtic shirts to Australia out of "national pride" as well.

Awful, awful supporters but great at smoke and mirrors. Hope they enjoyed themselves at our worst tournament on record, as I have no doubt they did.

[MrsMcGahan]

There's often a lot of truth in what Keane says but shouting it out with a megaphone is counterproductive more often or not.
He managerial career has been poor so man management is not his forte. The reign of terror style only works if you are winning.
If not you look like a clown.

[Balla Boy]

I think his views are now slightly less credible in light of his deeply ****e coaching career. Fail to prepare and all that.

He's a significantly less successful coach than Trapattoni

[THEPARISH]

So many chips yet so few shoulders.Roy get a new dog and go for a long walk off a short pier.There aint exactly a long Q of clubs offering a management job.Writing for the Sun,is that the best he can do.In your own words Roy "get over it" P.S. You'll never beat the Irish:D.And before anybody gets their knickers in a twist I have never been to a league of Ireland match,I do support an English
premier league team and if I could afford it I would have been in Poland singing on my national team win lose or draw.

[BOK]

The man is 100% right and i`m saying that as not a huge fan of his. To put it in rugby terms if the Irish rugby team went out and performed like they did in the first test against NZ or England in the 6N and did so without any real sign of effort or care, in an important game in the WC, Ozzie perhaps, would we be so critical of a past player, maybe Quinnie or Hickie or someone, if they came out and criticized the team saying it was`nt good enough? No we would`nt cause we`d know ourselves that they are right and that it was`nt good enough considering they are paid professionals. And whats more if we had performed that way and got knocked out of the last WC after the 2nd game and 20,000 odd Irish supporters stayed on and sang the fields for 6 odd min in a passionate drunken state coming up to and after the final whistle, there would be people on here going mad. People would want to know what the hell they are doing that for, because most people understand that players have to earn the show of support and respect they got Thursday night and that those soccer players did`nt earn it and that they got that experience very very cheaply.


People are only going mad because its Roy Keane that said it but the fact is it needed to be said and he`s right in what he says and i think most people know that.

[MunsterTel]

I think his views are now slightly less credible in light of his deeply ****e coaching career. Fail to prepare and all that.

He's a significantly less successful coach than Trapattoni

Relative to Trapperoni he hasn't had a coaching career. But why should someones position give their opinion credibilty. Or their character for that matter. I've met people with no stake in society talking sense and those with cash in big jobs who're basically morons. Seperate whats being said from who's saying it. Act logically and everyone of us knows that lack of professionalism is what has us down as the good time charlies of the world. It's why every moronic pub owner and yahoo makes it into goverment here. Or priests ffs. He's the priest he must be right! We get what we deserve in this world and half the population of Ireland deserve f^ck all if they can't act rationally.

You'll never beat the irish. Course not. We'll drink this one off and come back again. How can ya beat that mentality.

[BOK]

And just for the record, i want to say that i think alot of the fans that traveled over did so for the craic and atmosphere, and fair play to them they are perfectly entitled to enjoy themselves and I also feel that the singing of the fields in the manner it was done was more a showing of us as a country standing tall after our economic downturn etc... and showing we still have our spirit even when we`re losing more than it did about them all supporting and showing approval for the soccer team. It was a message to the rest of Europe and a very powerful one at that and i applaud them all for it.

[Tobyglen]

I think his views are now slightly less credible in light of his deeply ****e coaching career. Fail to prepare and all that.

He's a significantly less successful coach than Trapattoni
But I think as the countries most successful player of all time his views are credible. The guy has his flaws but he's spot on regards the players.

[Widebody]

WE DON'T HAVE ANY BETTER PLAYERS.

They're ****e, and they alluded to it in pre-tournament interviews that they know they're ****e. Of course no one wants Robbie Keane, Hunt, Whelan but who else is there? This crap is like suggesting we boo Connacht off the pitch for losing by 20 point to Toulouse. It's not in anyway comparable to the Irish rugby team, who are known to be top professionals in their field and can reach the ultimate level. These lads are not, and need to be exposed to top level football at club level in order to compete effectively at international level. And Hunt etc. won't be making a move to Barcelona/Man Utd any time soon. In previous years we had top level players, including Roy Keane, we simply haven't got a single one as of today.

[desert man]

WE DON'T HAVE ANY BETTER PLAYERS.

They're ****e, and they alluded to it in pre-tournament interviews that they know they're ****e. Of course no one wants Robbie Keane, Hunt, Whelan but who else is there? This crap is like suggesting we boo Connacht off the pitch for losing by 20 point to Toulouse. It's not in anyway comparable to the Irish rugby team, who are known to be top professionals in their field and can reach the ultimate level. These lads are not, and need to be exposed to top level football at club level in order to compete effectively at international level. And Hunt etc. won't be making a move to Barcelona/Man Utd any time soon. In previous years we had top level players, including Roy Keane, we simply haven't got a single one as of today.

What about the Greek team 8 years ago that won it? No one would argue that they were superstars and few if any were playing at top level clubs prior to the tournament. You can't compare soccer to rugby full stop. An amateur rugby team will be destroyed by a professional team. The same is not necessarily true for soccer as it's a lot easier to defend the goal. A well organised and physically fit soccer team is difficult to beat by a team at any level.

[cornerboy]

In fairness a lot of what Keane says is true but him walking away from his teamates in Saipan means he doesnt have the right to comment.

[MrsMcGahan]

Some truth in that. We did not play to our potential. We were too easy to score against. And you could always see us conceding. With the limited players we had we needed to concentrate on frustrating the opposition. Chelsea gave a good example v Barce on how you can bring a superior team to your level.

[joeriddick]

As someone that has had to watch that Spanish game three times now for professional reasons I think I see what Roy Keane is getting at.

Nobody expected Ireland to run out there and beat that Spanish team but what I saw, and what I think RK is referring to, is an almost criminal lack of commitment from pretty much every outfield player with the possible exception of Keith Andrews. At the very least, you would expect an Irish side (regardless of how talented they are) to put the opposition Under Pressure™ but they stood off everything. They were like fans out there marveling at the Spanish.

The fans who went out there deserve better then to hear players gasping that they were "chasing shadows out there" after the game. Spain are in a different league, yes, but they didn't even have to get out of the garage, let alone start the car and get into first gear. That Ireland team played like losing was a foregone conclusion, so why bother.

Spain wanted a result more than we did. They chased US down. They put US under pressure. Our players were "chasing shadows" because they were unfocused and under prepared. They were the exact same for the Croatian game, a game where a result was at least plausible. Don't the fans deserve better than traveling a few thousand kilometres to watch a team just roll over in their last two games?

What Roy Keane said is irrelevant. Most people are incapable of listening to what he actually said anyway, such is their desire to turn him into some Ireland hating mixture of Adolf Hitler and Cromwell. WE as supporters should expect a better performance from players that are representing us.

[Jenta]

Can't say I'd be too inclined to blame the players for not pressuring Spain joe, generally if you do that they'll tear you to bits. Our only chance was to give them the ball and sit back. It worked for Chelsea, unfortunately Chelsea have a stronger midfield than us who can sit in front of the back 4 more effectively and hold the ball for much longer periods when they do get it.

If we'd try to play higher up and exposed our defense the score would have been twice as bad.

[cornerboy]

Agree Joe Riddick, Irish players were standing way off the spaniards not one telling tackle. I admit to knowing little of the game of soccer but even I could see this from casually observing the game. I actually thought it might be tactics not to go diving in.

[joeriddick]

Can't say I'd be too inclined to blame the players for not pressuring Spain joe, generally if you do that they'll tear you to bits. Our only chance was to give them the ball and sit back. It worked for Chelsea, unfortunately Chelsea have a stronger midfield than us who can sit in front of the back 4 more effectively and hold the ball for much longer periods when they do get it.

If we'd try to play higher up and exposed our defense the score would have been twice as bad.

I wasn't suggesting playing higher up the park. Spain generally tend kill teams that come and play against them because their entire game plan is based around shifting you out of position. Mourinho laid the gameplan to beat Barca / Spain with his CL winning Inter Milan side.

Switzerland did the same two years ago. You close down everything in the your defensive third. EVERYTHING. They never launch crosses from the middle third to your defensive third so you never get pulled out of position stopping them there. They always work it short into the last third. The second the ball comes near a player in your third, you crowd him with two defenders; you make them look for their next pass and you close down their options. Spain like to have at least three options off every player with the ball. If you have two men closing down ball & player and their two outlets closely man marked they go BACKWARDS and try again. When that doesn't work they shoot from distance and you would expect Given to save those in most cases. That's why tiki-taka looked so pointless against Chelsea. They couldn't go through you so they had to go back.

It requires total focus and total commitment. Ireland didn't have that. When Ireland won the ball they just lumped it away. The key was to win the ball back and play it directly and accurately to your pacey wingers on the flanks (where their full backs are somewhat suspect defensively) and pressure them with simple attacking football. Get it into a big man attacker. Work balls off him to strong runners. Work set pieces where they are weak. Simple football.

It's difficult - you need super fit players, calm (yet aggressive) defenders and a strong target man to get anything out of it but it was possible. The biggest ingredient was total focus and we didn't have it. Considering it isn't a physical skill, you'd expect us to at least have that. And we didn't.

That's unacceptable.

[Balla Boy]

But I think as the countries most successful player of all time his views are credible. The guy has his flaws but he's spot on regards the players.

Perhaps, but as a successful player he could throw brickbats. As an unsuccessful coach, he has to explain away how he thinks this Irish team should be more competitive.

Comparing it to the rugby team, as someone had above, is deluded. When it comes to Soccer, we're ****. Out league is ****, our players are ****.

Condemning them for not achieving more is a nonsense.

[Jenta]

I see what you mean joe, I just don't think there's a huge difference between how we set ourselves up and how Switzerland/Inter/Chelsea set themselves up, the main difference is the players, even Switzerland had the likes of Inler to call on and he's in a different league to our midfielders. I think we pressed in front of our penalty area and I honestly don't think I could question the commitment of the players to any great degree, you're just always going to look off the pace when you're Glenn Whelan and you're trying to press and chase Andres Iniesta. I think it's also fair to say that the Swiss had vast quantities of luck in that group game, something we didn't have.

What I'd like to see is someone having a real good go at Spain again, like Chile did a couple of years ago. It would take a coach of Bielsa's ability though, and there aren't too many of those around at the moment.

[joeriddick]

I see what you mean joe, I just don't think there's a huge difference between how we set ourselves up and how Switzerland/Inter/Chelsea set themselves up, the main difference is the players, even Switzerland had the likes of Inler to call on and he's in a different league to our midfielders. I think we pressed in front of our penalty area and I honestly don't think I could question the commitment of the players to any great degree, you're just always going to look off the pace when you're Glenn Whelan and you're trying to press and chase Andres Iniesta. I think it's also fair to say that the Swiss had vast quantities of luck in that group game, something we didn't have.

What I'd like to see is someone having a real good go at Spain again, like Chile did a couple of years ago. It would take a coach of Bielsa's ability though, and there aren't too many of those around at the moment.

We needed luck yes, but three of those Spanish goals came from our defenders switching off. Getting a win against Spain was unlikely but the way to secure a draw was the same way to secure a win and the players (and the manager) didn't produce. I'm more annoyed about the Croatia game because that was a game we should have gotten something from.

Roy Keane is a convenient rodeo clown issue for the FAI. They have big questions to answer as to why 40,000+ Irish fans went to Poland only to watch us get slapped around. The team should be held to a higher standard. I'm not saying "Ireland should win the Euro's", I'm saying "Ireland should be competitive and if we can't win, we want to make it the hardest thing you'll do this month to beat us".

[joeriddick]

What I'd like to see is someone having a real good go at Spain again, like Chile did a couple of years ago. It would take a coach of Bielsa's ability though, and there aren't too many of those around at the moment.

This time around that's Deutschland.

[Jenta]

We needed luck yes, but three of those Spanish goals came from our defenders switching off. Getting a win against Spain was unlikely but the way to secure a draw was the same way to secure a win and the players (and the manager) didn't produce. I'm more annoyed about the Croatia game because that was a game we should have gotten something from.

Roy Keane is a convenient rodeo clown issue for the FAI. They have big questions to answer as to why 40,000+ Irish fans went to Poland only to watch us get slapped around. The team should be held to a higher standard. I'm not saying "Ireland should win the Euro's", I'm saying "Ireland should be competitive and if we can't win, we want to make it the hardest thing you'll do this month to beat us".

Our defenders didn't cover themselves in glory, no question about that, but I'd put that down more to players being in positions that demand more in terms of ability than they have to offer. I wouldn't put Spain's first goal down to switching off, I'd put it down to Stephen Ward being out of his depth. A better full back wouldn't have let that happen, unfortunately I don't think we have one, and that's not a coaching/tactical issue. There's only so much you can legislate for as a coach when your players are so far behind in every position.

I'd fully agree that we need to be held to a higher standard, I've always said the same and it's the reason I always backed Keane post-Saipan, but I also think people need to be realistic as to what that squad of players can be expected to achieve. I don't think Rinus Michels could set up that team to take anything but a pasting from Spain. Croatia will always be a missed opportunity, a fit Shay Given, a bit more luck and a decent referee and we could have gotten something from that game.

A real worry for me is the talk of division between squad and management, we're in for a seriously tough time in the WC qualifiers, our main asset has always been that we play better collectively than how we look on paper. If we lose that attitude we're finished.

[Jenta]

This time around that's Deutschland.

No question that they're looking savage, but I'd be a bit worried that Lowe will set them up to sit back, absorb and counter rather than try and be more proactive like Chile were.

[joeriddick]

A real worry for me is the talk of division between squad and management, we're in for a seriously tough time in the WC qualifiers, our main asset has always been that we play better collectively than how we look on paper. If we lose that attitude we're finished.

Agreed. Trappatoni's selection policy so far hasn't helped in this regard.

[lactose intolerant]

No question that they're looking savage, but I'd be a bit worried that Lowe will set them up to sit back, absorb and counter rather than try and be more proactive like Chile were.

With Spain still playing probably one too many of their playmaking midfielders, I would say that playing them on the counter is the best way for Germany to go about taking them on!!

Good solid defence, 2 good players in front of them, a genius in Ozil, a goal machine in Gomez and plenty of pacey options for the wings....they stand an excellent chance of stopping Spain!!

[Jenta]

Agreed. Trappatoni's selection policy so far hasn't helped in this regard.

His loyalty to players can be both an asset and a liability I think. It's and admirable trait and, up to a point, will develop a strong bond within a team. But then you get to the point we're at now and you can understand someone like Darron Gibson, who's been quite good for Everton this year and is looking out at Glenn Whelan doing his finest impression of the fat kid in PE class, getting quite irritated by the whole thing.

I think we could be in for a serious shake-up for the WC qualifiers though.

[lactose intolerant]

I think we could be in for a serious shake-up for the WC qualifiers though.

I get the feeling there will be a few changes for the WC qualifiers alright, or at least there would be if we had more than one game before then!!

[Lomasney]

We just dont have the players or the game plan to get anything out of these tournaments. We need to be doing the simple things well, thats all we can try and focus on, and at the moment we aren't even capable of doing that. Keane makes valid points, as do others, but until numerous factors change (eg. football not being being a primary sport), we'll always be going into these tournament in hope rather than expectation. Also, i'm still shocked every time Trappatoni gives an interview, his english is so bad, that must surely have some effect on the coaching?!

[joeriddick]

I get the feeling there will be a few changes for the WC qualifiers alright, or at least there would be if we had more than one game before then!!

Thing is, the game tomorrow is a perfect time to try things. It's a strange high pressure / low pressure friendly match.


His loyalty to players can be both an asset and a liability I think. It's and admirable trait and, up to a point, will develop a strong bond within a team. But then you get to the point we're at now and you can understand someone like Darron Gibson, who's been quite good for Everton this year and is looking out at Glenn Whelan doing his finest impression of the fat kid in PE class, getting quite irritated by the whole thing.

I think we could be in for a serious shake-up for the WC qualifiers though.

Loyalty must be rewarded with form or else player and manager are doomed to fail. Gibson, McLean and Long must be wondering what they have to do to get a start at this stage.

With Keane, Duff, Dunne etc likely retiring after this tournament you'd reckon he'd at least use this game to let some of the squad / future team have a cut against quality opposition. They couldn't do any worse than the guys picked against Spain & Croatia and he's basically in a no lose situation - the general public don't expect a win and as proved against Spain they don't even care if you get a hammering - so why not change things up?

[taz]

The points made were spot on,they just came from the wrong man for people to listen.

[Stanley]

The points made were spot on,they just came from the wrong man for people to listen.


Totally agree, Keane is being teed up by ITV for these comments and the guy is doing more and more pundit work with them but he speaks the truth, am only suprised he is not venting his anger on Delaney and his 400k + salary.

[rua13]

Trap says that he cant change his team for tonight as it would be unfair on Croatia and Spain.. I bet they are
thrilled Robbie Keane is starting again!!!! the man is deluded..

[taz]

Totally agree, Keane is being teed up by ITV for these comments and the guy is doing more and more pundit work with them but he speaks the truth, am only suprised he is not venting his anger on Delaney and his 400k + salary.

This chap?Keane does not need to say anything.
http://www.joe.ie/uploads/story/25969/delaneypic.jpg

[joeriddick]

Trap says that he cant change his team for tonight as it would be unfair on Croatia and Spain.. I bet they are
thrilled Robbie Keane is starting again!!!! the man is deluded..

Not fair to Spain or Croatia? Well I suppose it would be unfair to Italy too. They should get a chance to wallop us off the park same as everyone else.

[Grandpasimpson]

I think Keane is 100% right, I was away last week and didnt catch what he had said till I came home but was thinking the exact same thing all week. Its an embarrassing show of paddy whackery of the highest order. Its one thing to celebrate a herioc performance but neither of those 2 efforts came close to even mildely unacceptable.

As Dick Clerkin wrote in the Examiner today:
"While many did their patriotic duty and jumped onboard the bandwagon, I doubt you would have heard too many verses of the Fields of Athenry being sang by the hardcore GAA fraternity.

Not because they don’t support their country, far from it. It is more that they are not accustomed to commending mediocrity and they surely wouldn’t partake in celebrating what was bewildering lack of effort by many of the Irish players.......Performances like that are certainly not tolerated on the GAA terraces and far from singing their hearts out, most GAA supporters would be baying for blood.

If Monaghan put in a performance like the Irish players did last week, far from saluting the songs from the terrace, I would be afraid to show my face for months."
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/dick-clerkin/angry-fans-can-raise-standards-197702.html

We're on the brink of being officially labeled the worst Euro Championship ever, if i'd spent money going over there to follow that it certainly would not be songs i'd be singing. I wonder how many will turn up to the pre-WC qualifier friendly in August or at any of the other Aviva games for that matter?

[Dowlinz]

Don't understand peoples issue with selection, when we're not distributing the ball from the back 4 or having a platform of any sort in our centre midfield you have to raise an eyebrow at those suggesting the striker/wing selections are of any significance whatsoever. I'm sure it'd be very entertaining to see different strikers stranded with no service or new wingers having to launch attacks off hoofball instead of passes to feet but it doesn't change much.

We have a lot of badly coached players playing in roles that has been defunct for the past 10 years. How many other number 10's with no aerial presence are there playing for any top teams? Those kind of players learned to adapt to advanced midfield roles a long time ago. Or the touchline hugger like McGready/McClean/Duff, these guys adapted to being wing forwards eons ago. We must have the only wingers left on the planet who provide no goal threat. We have central midfielders who can't pass or shoot, full backs with no pace, crossing ability or general attacking instinct and centre backs who are dreadful on the ball.

We're like the anti-modern game and that's nothing down to the coach when all he has to work with is a squad pool that wouldn't look out of place in 1993. The problem lies with development, the fact that we are sending all our players to the most technically inept league in the world doesn't help matters at all and leaves our choices at playing ultra defensive like Chelsea/England or just accepting we can't compete.

[lactose intolerant]

I think Keane is 100% right, I was away last week and didnt catch what he had said till I came home but was thinking the exact same thing all week. Its an embarrassing show of paddy whackery of the highest order. Its one thing to celebrate a herioc performance but neither of those 2 efforts came close to even mildely unacceptable.

As Dick Clerkin wrote in the Examiner today:
"While many did their patriotic duty and jumped onboard the bandwagon, I doubt you would have heard too many verses of the Fields of Athenry being sang by the hardcore GAA fraternity.

Not because they don’t support their country, far from it. It is more that they are not accustomed to commending mediocrity and they surely wouldn’t partake in celebrating what was bewildering lack of effort by many of the Irish players.......Performances like that are certainly not tolerated on the GAA terraces and far from singing their hearts out, most GAA supporters would be baying for blood.

If Monaghan put in a performance like the Irish players did last week, far from saluting the songs from the terrace, I would be afraid to show my face for months."
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/dick-clerkin/angry-fans-can-raise-standards-197702.html

We're on the brink of being officially labeled the worst Euro Championship ever, if i'd spent money going over there to follow that it certainly would not be songs i'd be singing. I wonder how many will turn up to the pre-WC qualifier friendly in August or at any of the other Aviva games for that matter?

That's ******** from him though, it's not mediocrity to be at the Euros considering the players and resources available to us!!

It's actually the equivalent of Monaghan stumbling through to All Ireland Final day, then getting walloped by Kerry/Cork whoever!!
Would the Monaghan fans still be singing?? You bet your ass they would be!!

[DONC]

I think some people here dont know that much regarding soccerball tactics. Chelsea were not ultra defensive against Barca, they played to their strengths over those matches which was counter attacking football. This tactic requires an increadible amount of concentration, skill and discipline to be successful over two games against a side like Barca. One brainfart aside by one fool they stuck to their task fantastically well and scored 3 goals whilst doing this. Its amazing how many people seem to forget they scored three times. Just after that they played QPR at home scored six and should have scored 10 playing fluid attacking football. The key here is you use what you have correctly but you do your home work on your opponents.

The Irish team is poor and you have to wonder what Trap was on with some of his selections. Dunne is not fit but done ok in fairness, Given and O'Shea are nowhere near fit and were way off the pace. Our best forward on the night against Croatia was Doyle he was giving one of their defenders a torrid time and had him on a yellow, why in the name of God was he called ashore?

I didn't think his contract should have been extended and have seen nowt to suggest I was wrong.

Also have a friend who is a big soccerball fan did not go to Poland as he could not afford it (he is only a PAYE worker you see) but has not missed a home game for ages. He is not going again whilst Trap is in charge, I think all that singing has led the FAI and Trap to think that fare is ok to serve up which is odd.

[Grandpasimpson]

That's ******** from him though, it's not mediocrity to be at the Euros considering the players and resources available to us!!

It's actually the equivalent of Monaghan stumbling through to All Ireland Final day, then getting walloped by Kerry/Cork whoever!!
Would the Monaghan fans still be singing?? You bet your ass they would be!!

A defeat to a top class team is usually to be expected and can be acceptable if there is a performance of some sort, with us the last week there has been nothing near a performance from players on 40k a week, some of them wouldnt even run ffs. Croatia are a handy enough team but certainly not in the Spain/Germany league. Greece have players of a similiar enough standard to ourselves but look at how they aquitt themselves. We have lads like Coleman/McLean/Long/Houlihan/Wilson who are competent and would not look out of place but instead we bring on Green who cant even convince Derby he is good enough.

Would Monaghan be singing if Fermanagh gave them a royal thumping as Croatia did to us? Would they be singing after getting shamed against Cork/Kerry? We've been beaten before by better teams with limited resources of our own but if the performance and effort was right then you say fair enough, this is not the case here.

[Stanley]

Trap is "on" 450k + bonuses + expenses, supplemented by Denis O'Brien, one of our infamous non-resident for tax rich dodgers, Trap aint worth it and its peanuts PR for O'Brien, a man who has lost 500m so far on his ego quest for INM and a Tribunal has totally discredited.

[lactose intolerant]

Trap is "on" 450k + bonuses + expenses, supplemented by Denis O'Brien, one of our infamous non-resident for tax rich dodgers, Trap aint worth it and its peanuts PR for O'Brien, a man who has lost 500m so far on his ego quest for INM and a Tribunal has totally discredited.

Qualifying for the Euros was worth a hell of a lot more to the FAI though....

[joeriddick]

I think some people here dont know that much regarding soccerball tactics. Chelsea were not ultra defensive against Barca, they played to their strengths over those matches which was counter attacking football. This tactic requires an increadible amount of concentration, skill and discipline to be successful over two games against a side like Barca. One brainfart aside by one fool they stuck to their task fantastically well and scored 3 goals whilst doing this. Its amazing how many people seem to forget they scored three times. Just after that they played QPR at home scored six and should have scored 10 playing fluid attacking football. The key here is you use what you have correctly but you do your home work on your opponents.

Chelsea sucked Barca in and sucker punched them when they got the chance. They could have only done that by playing somewhat defensively at home and extremely defensively in Camp Nou. Some people like to call that "parking the bus" but who gives a crap? That's how you beat them. Soak up the pressure (and don't fall into a "fake break" situation where Barca / Spain try to cod you into going on a break with nothing on), win the ball, play directly to your pacey wing / strong midfielder to attack the channels, take your chances - and if you get a bit of luck (missed penalty, crossbar, post) you get a result.

[Lemmy]

Inter also mastered this under The Special One on their way to the European Cup.

[Stanley]

Qualifying for the Euros was worth a hell of a lot more to the FAI though....


Yes, worth a lot of money to the FAI, when they finish their outward payments maybe they can come up with their end for Lansdowne Road instead of paying guys way too much money.

[DONC]

Chelsea sucked Barca in and sucker punched them when they got the chance. They could have only done that by playing somewhat defensively at home and extremely defensively in Camp Nou. Some people like to call that "parking the bus" but who gives a crap? That's how you beat them. Soak up the pressure (and don't fall into a "fake break" situation where Barca / Spain try to cod you into going on a break with nothing on), win the ball, play directly to your pacey wing / strong midfielder to attack the channels, take your chances - and if you get a bit of luck (missed penalty, crossbar, post) you get a result.

Absolutely nice concise description and is playing to your strenghts, that is what a good coach does - it is too simple to say they play defensive football (not your words). Trap on the other hand hmmm, his record as a coach is good but I would like to agree with Keane I just cant bring myself too

[joeriddick]

Absolutely nice concise description and is playing to your strenghts, that is what a good coach does - it is too simple to say they play defensive football (not your words). Trap on the other hand hmmm, his record as a coach is good but I would like to agree with Keane I just cant bring myself too

I like Trap and I think, in fairness to him, that he's been largely let down by the players he's remained loyal to. His loyalty to those players in the face of zero competitive form could equally be questioned but if he doesn't rate their potential replacements to do a job (which must be the case) then I guess that's that.

I would only question his dropping of Doyle for the Spanish game and the inclusion of Cox. Personally I would have started Doyle with Duff and McGeady as wing forwards/wide men and a three man midfield of Andrews, Gibson and McLean (Cox mostly played around midfield so why not play an actual midfielder there) and the back 4 as they were.

[Mcork]

Looking at some of those cretinous drink ravaged heads singing their heads off as their team concedes another sloppy goal, makes one cringe. We do revel in inglorious failure as a nation. Keane is right on the money.

[cemec]

What about the Greek team 8 years ago that won it? No one would argue that they were superstars and few if any were playing at top level clubs prior to the tournament..

Yes they were. Porto, Benfica, Roma, Bolton, Bremen and Fiorentina. The rest were all playing with the top sides in their own country who experience Champions League football regularly. These aren't the top clubs in Europe but they are sides in the top level leagues around the continent and these guys were in their starting sides. Ireland's team is populated with players that aren't playing in a top flight league and, in some cases, not even getting their game for these lower league sides. World of difference.

I'd like to see Keane bothering his arse to do something to develop football in this country rather than pontificating from his armchair. He has shown zero ability to get results himself so throwing out criticism is a bit rich. Others came back from England to try and improve the situation in Irish football so why not him?

[Stringer9]

"Can we sing now Roy?" Hahaha.

[Widebody]

Looking at some of those cretinous drink ravaged heads singing their heads off as their team concedes another sloppy goal, makes one cringe. We do revel in inglorious failure as a nation. Keane is right on the money.

I'd say you're great craic at away HEC fixtures. No pints on the boat or anything?

[RED 49]

Looking at some of those cretinous drink ravaged heads singing their heads off as their team concedes another sloppy goal, makes one cringe. We do revel in inglorious failure as a nation. Keane is right on the money.
That's the same guy who couldn't be arsed playing for his country at the world cup yeah ?

[joeriddick]

That's the same guy who couldn't be arsed playing for his country at the world cup yeah ?

Nope (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport3/worldcup2002/hi/team_pages/rep_of_ireland/newsid_2003000/2003681.stm), not the same guy no. Keane was sent home. From the article.



Republic of Ireland captain Roy Keane has been sent home from Japan after falling out with manager Mick McCarthy.




He's done a lot of things, but McCarthy sent him home. Hate the man all you want, but at least hate him for things he actually did.


"I cannot and will not tolerate that level of abuse being thrown at me so I sent him home," McCarthy told the BBC.

[cemec]

Nope (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport3/worldcup2002/hi/team_pages/rep_of_ireland/newsid_2003000/2003681.stm), not the same guy no. Keane was sent home. From the article.



He's done a lot of things, but McCarthy sent him home. Hate the man all you want, but at least hate him for things he actually did.

Incorrect. Keane himself gave a hugely publicised interview about 4 weeks ago where he declared McCarthy sent him nowhere and he made the decision himself:

""Mick sent me nowhere. I told him where to go," he declares. "What? Do you think Mick McCarthy said to me 'I'm sending you home'?"

Keane walked out on the squad by his own admission.

[Cowboy]

A man who struggles to find joy in much I would wager. Also a man who seems unable to distinguish the chasm between the world of football, and the world of supporting football.

[joeriddick]

Incorrect. Keane himself gave a hugely publicised interview about 4 weeks ago where he declared McCarthy sent him nowhere and he made the decision himself:

""Mick sent me nowhere. I told him where to go," he declares. "What? Do you think Mick McCarthy said to me 'I'm sending you home'?"

Keane walked out on the squad by his own admission.

Oh, my mistake. I must look that up.

Carry on.

[sewa]

A man who struggles to find joy in much I would wager. Also a man who seems unable to distinguish the chasm between the world of football, and the world of supporting football.
Agreed. Spot on actualy. Proud of the fans again.

[Tobyglen]

Laughing stock. Worst team stats wise to perform at a European championship yet people are questioning Roy's comments.

[Cowboy]

Laughing stock. Worst team stats wise to perform at a European championship yet people are questioning Roy's comments. Typical Irish, try to blame someone else when the players were dreadful.

Not saying he was wrong in his comments Toby, but lambasting pissed up paddies on tour for making the best they could of a crap performance by our team? What had the fans to do with what transpires on the field? They gave everything they had to that rendition of a soldiers song and (I think) it completely locked up the 11 brains in green.

The only people who fingers need pointing at are on the field, they hold all the responsibility.

Was Roy looking to apportion blame on our inebriated/excited brethren?

[scotscor]

Oh, my mistake. I must look that up.

Carry on.
One was an at the time record of what happened. One a memory from ten years on. At the time the whole thing was whether Keane would say sorry and then he would be allowed back.
All the books at the time refer to Keane being sent home, for an on the spot observers account Niall Quinns is probably the fairest

[scotscor]

Not saying he was wrong in his comments Toby, but lambasting pissed up paddies on tour for making the best they could of a crap performance by our team? What had the fans to do with what transpires on the field? They gave everything they had to that rendition of a soldiers song and (I think) it completely locked up the 11 brains in green.

The only people who fingers need pointing at are on the field, they hold all the responsibility.

Was Roy looking to apportion blame on our inebriated/excited brethren?
I dunno, surely trappatoni deserves a fair bit of blame. And by extension surely the FAI deserve grief. But if you don't want these things to change just carry on supporting.

I would never leave any game early, if I am supporting any team Cork Munster or any other those players are at a far higher level than anything I could achieve. As long as they are giving their best they will have my support. But this Irish team seemed to give up a fair bit.

[taz]

When you look at the players not even considered for selection and left at home and the players brought over and left on the bench while the team underperformed,Trap has to hold the responsibilty for this.

[Tobyglen]

Not saying he was wrong in his comments Toby, but lambasting pissed up paddies on tour for making the best they could of a crap performance by our team? What had the fans to do with what transpires on the field? They gave everything they had to that rendition of a soldiers song and (I think) it completely locked up the 11 brains in green.

The only people who fingers need pointing at are on the field, they hold all the responsibility.

Was Roy looking to apportion blame on our inebriated/excited brethren?
He did clarify after what he meant & it wasn't to lambast the supporters. It amazing how quickly people try & jump on a pundit who was correct, this tournament was depressing in every way.

[Cowboy]

He did clarify after what he meant & it wasn't to lambast the supporters. It amazing how quickly people try & jump on a pundit who was correct, this tournament was depressing in every way.

No disagreements on that Toby. A shambles all round, I never saw the clarification. I'll go look it up.

[Stringer9]

I backed Roy Keane as a player, thought he was top class, backed him completely in the world cup saga, but he's really pissed me off beyond words. As cranky as ****, and is an appauling manager.

"We'll sing when we want, we'll sing when we want, **** you Roy Keane, we'll sing when we want."

[lactose intolerant]

"Can we sing now Roy?" Hahaha.

In a tournament which, if nothing else, will be remembered for the humour among our fans, that is possibly the best flag of the bunch!! Fair play!!

[lactose intolerant]

He did clarify after what he meant & it wasn't to lambast the supporters. It amazing how quickly people try & jump on a pundit who was correct, this tournament was depressing in every way.

Clarified to serve self.....has actually managed to corner the unpopulist-populist market, which in itself is an interesting achievement

[taz]

Clarified to serve self.....has actually managed to corner the unpopulist-populist market, which in itself is an interesting achievement

No wonder Dunphy's annoyed .

[lactose intolerant]

No wonder Dunphy's annoyed .

Fair Point!!

[sewa]

Roys a miserable bollix who got found out as a manager, thank fup he is close to unemployable so we wont have to put up with much more of him

[Tobyglen]

No disagreements on that Toby. A shambles all round, I never saw the clarification. I'll go look it up.
No worries mate. He's a hypocrite alright & I can see why he antagonises people.

[Tobyglen]

Clarified to serve self.....has actually managed to corner the unpopulist-populist market, which in itself is an interesting achievement
He would be a great addition to this website. We need more wums.

[lactose intolerant]

He would be a great addition to this website. We need more wums.

Absolute fact!!

[Cowboy]

No worries mate. He's a hypocrite alright & I can see why he antagonises people.

He has a point, and a fair chunk of what he said was correct.

A man without a whole pile of tact though, well able to dig his own holes.

[lactose intolerant]

He has a point, and a fair chunk of what he said was correct.

A man without a whole pile of tact though, well able to dig his own holes.

http://i.imgur.com/sqk70.gif

[munstershane]

Roy Keane is an irrelevant has been.

Useless, moody pile of ****e. This coming from me is somewhat ironic.

[friendofthedevil]

And that's exactly what a successful team needs!

Can you honestly tell me that Wavey Arms Nobbie Keane has deserved to be next or near any international football team for the past four or five years?

I'd rather have a p*ick on board than a passenger!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football_players_with_50_or_mo re_international_goals

that is a list of footballers who have scored fifty international goals or more. you will find robbie keane on that list at number 27. Above him are the likes of Romario, Gerd Muller, Fat Ronaldo, Klose of Germany and Batistuta of Argentina. Below him are Zico, David Villa and Thierry Henry, who actually has a worse international goals to game ratio than Keane. Fair enough, criticize him for waving his arms and looking for free kicks, but this idea that he's a passenger is absolute ****ing guff of the highest order. Fifty international goals, predominantly scored against european opposition is not the work of a player who doesn't bother. You're talking through your hole.

[DONC]

One was an at the time record of what happened. One a memory from ten years on. At the time the whole thing was whether Keane would say sorry and then he would be allowed back.
All the books at the time refer to Keane being sent home, for an on the spot observers account Niall Quinns is probably the fairest

I must admit at the time I thought that Keane had been sent home, but he is at pains to point out that it was his decision and that he jumped and was not pushed. This was discussed at some length on the last word a few weeks back, he also said at the time that he would not regret his actions but now says of course he regrets not getting to play in the world cup finals so who knows what really happened. I think poor old Mick got the worst of it though and still feel sorry for what happened to him.

The only good thing really to come out of the whole sorry episode was Ikeano which I thought was quite good.

Bit of a hatchet job by the panel last night on RTE taking a few clips here and there and making some players left behind look like Messi. They are not but are of a decent standard and would have done a job in Poland.

[taz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football_players_with_50_or_mo re_international_goals

that is a list of footballers who have scored fifty international goals or more. you will find robbie keane on that list at number 27. Above him are the likes of Romario, Gerd Muller, Fat Ronaldo, Klose of Germany and Batistuta of Argentina. Below him are Zico, David Villa and Thierry Henry, who actually has a worse international goals to game ratio than Keane. Fair enough, criticize him for waving his arms and looking for free kicks, but this idea that he's a passenger is absolute ****ing guff of the highest order. Fifty international goals, predominantly scored against european opposition is not the work of a player who doesn't bother. You're talking through your hole.
How many have Romario,fat Ronaldo,Batistuta,Pele,,Zico or Gerd Muller scored against Andorra,Luxembourg,Faroe islands,Estonia,Macedonia etc/

[Jenta]

How many have Romario,fat Ronaldo,Batistuta,Pele,,Zico or Gerd Muller scored against Andorra,Luxembourg,Faroe islands,Estonia,Macedonia etc/

I don't like posting on a non-Friday, but this stuff just annoys me so much. Gerd Muller is rightly regarded as one of the great goalscorers of all time, there is a list of the teams against whom he scored on the attached wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerd_M%C3%BCller#National_team

You'll note that, among the teams listed are Albania, Cyprus, Austria, Peru and Switzerland, not exactly powerhouses of football.

Below are a breakdown of the teams Robbie Keane has scored international goals against, if you have a quick look you'll notice a mixture of the same quality that you'll find in Muller's list.

http://greenscene.me/2011/06/robbie-keanes-51-international-goals/
(http://greenscene.me/2011/06/robbie-keanes-51-international-goals/)
Like I said, I try and save my posting for Friday but I felt I had to jump in here. The idea that Robbie scores against only weak teams is tedious bull**** rolled out by people with an agenda I can't fathom. He is, by several country miles, the finest goalscorer we've ever produced, and I think he deserves to be treated with a little bit more respect.

[JohnnyQ]

How many have Romario,fat Ronaldo,Batistuta,Pele,,Zico or Gerd Muller scored against Andorra,Luxembourg,Faroe islands,Estonia,Macedonia etc/ Good point because Ronaldo, Batistutta, Pele etc. had clauses in their contracts to not score against lesser teams! :confused:

[rua13]

Not his greatest fan but Roy was bang on when he said Given shouldnt play in friendlies so that Ireland
could blood a reserve keeper.. Given plays through the three games injured with no viable plan B on the bench..
Future planning from the FAI at its best..

[taz]

I don't like posting on a non-Friday, but this stuff just annoys me so much. Gerd Muller is rightly regarded as one of the great goalscorers of all time, there is a list of the teams against whom he scored on the attached wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerd_M%C3%BCller#National_team

You'll note that, among the teams listed are Albania, Cyprus, Austria, Peru and Switzerland, not exactly powerhouses of football.

Below are a breakdown of the teams Robbie Keane has scored international goals against, if you have a quick look you'll notice a mixture of the same quality that you'll find in Muller's list.

http://greenscene.me/2011/06/robbie-keanes-51-international-goals/
(http://greenscene.me/2011/06/robbie-keanes-51-international-goals/)
Like I said, I try and save my posting for Friday but I felt I had to jump in here. The idea that Robbie scores against only weak teams is tedious bull**** rolled out by people with an agenda I can't fathom. He is, by several country miles, the finest goalscorer we've ever produced, and I think he deserves to be treated with a little bit more respect.

Just had a quick sconce there and there are around 30 goals against poor sides,well what I would consider to be.
I have no issue with what he has done for Ireland. I have an issue with those who class him in the same bracket as the names above.They did it in major tournaments and like it or not he played 3 games in a European Championships and scored 0 as our main striker.
I apologise from dragging you out of your early week hibernation,but we will agree to disagree on his achievements.

[exiledinmunster]

He did clarify after what he meant & it wasn't to lambast the supporters. It amazing how quickly people try & jump on a pundit who was correct, this tournament was depressing in every way.

If Keane was correct why the need for a clarification.

[JohnnyQ]

Just had a quick sconce there and there are around 30 goals against poor sides,well what I would consider to be.
I have no issue with what he has done for Ireland. I have an issue with those who class him in the same bracket as the names above.They did it in major tournaments and like it or not he played 3 games in a European Championships and scored 0 as our main striker.
I apologise from dragging you out of your early week hibernation,but we will agree to disagree on his achievements.
He also has a succesful major tournament record, scoring 3 in the last World Cup we qualified for. I didn't think he was up to much this tournament but then Ronaldo would not have scored playing up front for Ireland given the lack of a decent ball. P.S. I do agree however, that his best days are past him but he scored 7 in qualification and is worthy of praise for his huge contribution to Irish football.

[taz]

He also has a succesful major tournament record, scoring 3 in the last World Cup we qualified for. I didn't think he was up to much this tournament but then Ronaldo would not have scored playing up front for Ireland given the lack of a decent ball. P.S. I do agree however, that his best days are past him but he scored 7 in qualification and is worthy of praise for his huge contribution to Irish football.
Absolutely and I totally agree on that. His contribution to this little country is beyond doubt. You score against whoever is put in front of you. But as you said he scored 7 in qualification and 0 in the championships under the same set up.

[MunsterTel]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football_players_with_50_or_mo re_international_goals

that is a list of footballers who have scored fifty international goals or more. you will find robbie keane on that list at number 27. Above him are the likes of Romario, Gerd Muller, Fat Ronaldo, Klose of Germany and Batistuta of Argentina. Below him are Zico, David Villa and Thierry Henry, who actually has a worse international goals to game ratio than Keane. Fair enough, criticize him for waving his arms and looking for free kicks, but this idea that he's a passenger is absolute ****ing guff of the highest order. Fifty international goals, predominantly scored against european opposition is not the work of a player who doesn't bother. You're talking through your hole.
Would love to know at what point you then drop a player and stop talking his previous into account... Competition creates more brilliant players. Stifle it because a fella has done well in the past and what're you left with. Players living off the past. Wven england had the cop on to eventually drop beckham. Eventually.

[taz]

This chap?Keane does not need to say anything.
http://www.joe.ie/uploads/story/25969/delaneypic.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=affbvK4UZgc

[MunsterTel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=affbvK4UZgc
And there you have EXACTLY why Keane or anyone remotely interested in contributing to making the game more professional in this country couldn't do it.


Also i miss travelling abroad when people like that couldn't... 😞

[Benny]

I don't like posting on a non-Friday, but this stuff just annoys me so much. Gerd Muller is rightly regarded as one of the great goalscorers of all time, there is a list of the teams against whom he scored on the attached wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerd_M%C3%BCller#National_team

You'll note that, among the teams listed are Albania, Cyprus, Austria, Peru and Switzerland, not exactly powerhouses of football.

Below are a breakdown of the teams Robbie Keane has scored international goals against, if you have a quick look you'll notice a mixture of the same quality that you'll find in Muller's list.

http://greenscene.me/2011/06/robbie-keanes-51-international-goals/
(http://greenscene.me/2011/06/robbie-keanes-51-international-goals/)
Like I said, I try and save my posting for Friday but I felt I had to jump in here. The idea that Robbie scores against only weak teams is tedious bull**** rolled out by people with an agenda I can't fathom. He is, by several country miles, the finest goalscorer we've ever produced, and I think he deserves to be treated with a little bit more respect.

Agreed. People can try and downplay Keane's record if they want but he has done something which is way ahead of any other Irish goalscorer over the years. If it was that easy to score 50+ international goals there'd be more people doing it.

[Benny]

Oh and Roy Keane is entitled to express his opinion and we are entitled to think of him as a former top player who walked away from his country before the World Cup.

Some of the current Irish players are not good enough to play at the top level and some may have questions about their commitment to give it everything they have on the field but at least none of them abandoned the team. If anybody has questions to answer about underperforming players it is the manager who continues to select them. Maybe he thinks the alternatives would be out of their depth. I have no idea of he is right but I would have thought we couldn't do much worse so it is worth taking a chance on a few of those who have been on the backbenches thus far.

[taz]

Amazing how 10 years on, Keane still manages to divide places like this in two.

[Evil Omer]

The man is 100% right and i`m saying that as not a huge fan of his. To put it in rugby terms if the Irish rugby team went out and performed like they did in the first test against NZ or England in the 6N and did so without any real sign of effort or care, in an important game in the WC, Ozzie perhaps, would we be so critical of a past player, maybe Quinnie or Hickie or someone, if they came out and criticized the team saying it was`nt good enough? No we would`nt cause we`d know ourselves that they are right and that it was`nt good enough considering they are paid professionals. And whats more if we had performed that way and got knocked out of the last WC after the 2nd game and 20,000 odd Irish supporters stayed on and sang the fields for 6 odd min in a passionate drunken state coming up to and after the final whistle, there would be people on here going mad. People would want to know what the hell they are doing that for, because most people understand that players have to earn the show of support and respect they got Thursday night and that those soccer players did`nt earn it and that they got that experience very very cheaply.


People are only going mad because its Roy Keane that said it but the fact is it needed to be said and he`s right in what he says and i think most people know that.

What he said, Keane is a twat but he's also right about a lot of this

[Evil Omer]

Also I don't think Trappattoni is the issue, the best players available to Ireland aren't very good, simple as. I said this on another thread, it's shame soccer is such a big sport in Ireland cos honestly we're pretty ****e at it and if rugby had anything like the level of interest soccer has we'd be amazing.

[taz]

Also I don't think Trappattoni is the issue, the best players available to Ireland aren't very good, simple as. I said this on another thread, it's shame soccer is such a big sport in Ireland cos honestly we're pretty ****e at it and if rugby had anything like the level of interest soccer has we'd be amazing.
Clarke,Hoolohan, Mc Carthy,Ireland .

[lactose intolerant]

Clarke,Hoolohan, Mc Carthy,Ireland .

Hoolahan may yet be the most overrated player I have ever seen....lads, he's not all that good!!
McCarthy is better but still not exactly talking about Messi here!!
Ireland doesn't want to play....and Clark couldn't hold down a starting spot at Villa......****ING VILLA

[taz]

Hoolahan may yet be the most overrated player I have ever seen....lads, he's not all that good!!
McCarthy is better but still not exactly talking about Messi here!!
Ireland doesn't want to play....and Clark couldn't hold down a starting spot at Villa......****ING VILLA
Versus .....Whelan,Andrews(no club) ,Green(no club) or O Dea(no club)....I'd disagree.

[lactose intolerant]

Versus .....Whelan,Andrews(no club) ,Green(no club) or O Dea(no club)....I'd disagree.

There isn't exactly a massive gulf between them though, it's not just about putting your best 11 out there!!

You've to totally change your system to bring in McCarthy or Hoolahan, something Trap was understandably reluctant to do!! I'd like to have seen Clark tried in the Whelan holding midfield role before the tournament, but he has missed most of the friendlies through injury so whatcha gonna do?

[taz]

There isn't exactly a massive gulf between them though, it's not just about putting your best 11 out there!!

You've to totally change your system to bring in McCarthy or Hoolahan, something Trap was understandably reluctant to do!! I'd like to have seen Clark tried in the Whelan holding midfield role before the tournament, but he has missed most of the friendlies through injury so whatcha gonna do?

I am really only talking from a squad point of view. If those lads I mentioned were looked at ,we would be a bit stronger as a squad. But as you say Trap is reluctant to change and that worries me for the coming few years.

[taz]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/euro-2012/9342238/Euro-2012-If-the-opportunity-arose-would-Roy-Keane-be-interested-in-managing-the-Republic-of-Ireland.html
Former Republic of Ireland striker and Sunderland chairman Niall Quinn questions if his ex-manager could be interested in taking the country forward.

Ireland’s game against Italy was nothing more than a face-saving exercise. Performances at Euro 2012 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/european-championships-2012/)have been a disappointment and everyone wants to have their say on why it has gone wrong. Roy Keane has been one of them, but the question I have for him is: would he be interested in taking over as manager if the opportunity arose?


The Giovanni Trapattoni believers told us before the tournament that Ireland (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/republic-of-ireland/) would be organised and hard to beat. He prepares so meticulously, there would be nothing he wouldn’t know about the opposition.

But the thing that has disappointed me most is the lack of cohesion. We weren’t hard to beat, we didn’t have a wall in front of the goalkeeper and a wall protecting the back four in front of that.


I was as guilty as anyone before the tournament began of believing the final game against Italy (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/Italy/) would decide who would qualify for the knockout stage, them or us, but we were already out and we couldn’t even get a positive result in the last game.

I agree Trapattoni’s position has to be looked at by the Football Association of Ireland and it will interesting to see whether he still has that hunger. We have to see whether there is still some life left in his reign.
I’m not going to call for the manager’s head – we shouldn’t be in too much of a hurry to do that – but the FAI needs to assess the whole tournament.

The hairs on the back of my neck were standing on end when the fans were singing Fields of Athenry and the joke in Dublin at the moment is maybe we should have a welcome home parade for the fans, not the team. It’s tongue in cheek, of course, but that is the way people feel.

They’ve been fantastic, but Roy does not accept mediocrity and Ireland’s performances in this tournament were mediocre at best. That is what he was criticising, the idea that we were happy to accept those standards.
It would take a huge leap of faith from both him and the FAI to appoint him, but also the fans he has railed against and the players he has criticised. But can he be the spark that ties it all back together and leads Irish football to redemption?
There is history between him and the FAI, but there was history between him and me before he accepted an offer at Sunderland and he did a great job for me there as manager.

Just because there is history between them doesn’t mean they can’t resolve their issues and work together in the future.
He is available and if he sees a problem with the way Ireland are doing things, is he prepared to take the problem by the scruff of the neck and impose himself on it?

[rua13]

In fairness lactose the whole system line is over played.. Apparently Whelan is picked as he best suits Traps so called system..
I think its fair to say Whelan and Traps system were badly exposed in Poland..

McCarthy is a fine player with big potential and is an awful lot better than Whelan not even mentioning Paul Green.. Its time he's given a chance..

[MrsMcGahan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football_players_with_50_or_mo re_international_goals

that is a list of footballers who have scored fifty international goals or more. you will find robbie keane on that list at number 27. Above him are the likes of Romario, Gerd Muller, Fat Ronaldo, Klose of Germany and Batistuta of Argentina. Below him are Zico, David Villa and Thierry Henry, who actually has a worse international goals to game ratio than Keane. Fair enough, criticize him for waving his arms and looking for free kicks, but this idea that he's a passenger is absolute ****ing guff of the highest order. Fifty international goals, predominantly scored against european opposition is not the work of a player who doesn't bother. You're talking through your hole.

The case of 'Delores' is an odd one but not that hard to understand.
His record at international level is very good - almost a goal every 2nd game.
That's up with the level of a top class striker.
The argument that it was v weak teams is wrong. All the top strikers inflate their scoring rate by cashing in v weak teams. Also Delores is handicapped by not having a world class midfield to give him plenty of chances.

There's a very simple reason why his scoring rate at international level is excellent while that at club level is very patchy.
His problem is that he is not a thoroughbred striker/poacher in the mould of say Gerd Muller or even Torres in his Liverpool incarnation. To get the best out of Dolly you have to build your team around her and she's not good enough for a top team to do that.
But with Ireland she's the best we've got so she got that support to be able to cash in on chances.

[Old Dog]

Amazing how 10 years on, Keane still manages to divide places like this in two.

Not really, it's almost inevitable, given that [according to MBTI/Jungian analysis] some people are emotional thinkers, while others are logical thinkers.

The logical thinker often upsets the emotional thinker and the emotional thinker often annoys the logical thinker.

To check which type you are, why not try this test! http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

[Stanley]

Could never see Keane working with Delaney, who goes out and courts fans by buying them drink the results of which are on the video clip above.
This is the same guy who is stopping potential soccer games at TP, because the cut for him/FAI is not big enough, the guy should run for FF.

[MrsMcGahan]

Not really, it's almost inevitable, given that [according to MBTI/Jungian analysis] some people are emotional thinkers, while others are logical thinkers.

The logical thinker often upsets the emotional thinker and the emotional thinker often annoys the logical thinker.

To check which type you are, why not try this test! http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

What if you're a 'maybe' on most of those questions?

[Old Dog]

What if you're a 'maybe' on most of those questions?

Then your personality type is DiTh ErEr.

[MrsMcGahan]

Possibly.

[taz]

Not really, it's almost inevitable, given that [according to MBTI/Jungian analysis] some people are emotional thinkers, while others are logical thinkers.

The logical thinker often upsets the emotional thinker and the emotional thinker often annoys the logical thinker.

To check which type you are, why not try this test! http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

That was interesting to say ther least...

[kc73]

Anyone see the red mist tonight just caught the tail end of it...

[masterchief]

Anyone see the red mist tonight just caught the tail end of it...

Nope, what was the gist of it?

[No. 16]

Anyone see the red mist tonight just caught the tail end of it...

3190

[Evil Omer]

I still think bar Croatia Ireland's performance was what you'd expect. We lost to the 2 finalists, didn't do as well as Germany against Italy but not massively worse and we're a lot worse than Germany. Put Real Madrid or Barcelona on the park against Sunderland or Blackburn or Wolves (the level our best players are playing at) and I don't think 4-0 would be unlikely at all. Like I say, got the results you should expect from 2nd and 3rd tier players against top tier players.

[kc73]

I still think bar Croatia Ireland's performance was what you'd expect. We lost to the 2 finalists, didn't do as well as Germany against Italy but not massively worse and we're a lot worse than Germany. Put Real Madrid or Barcelona on the park against Sunderland or Blackburn or Wolves (the level our best players are playing at) and I don't think 4-0 would be unlikely at all. Like I say, got the results you should expect from 2nd and 3rd tier players against top tier players.


Very difficult to disagree with that!!

[blackwarrior]

I still think bar Croatia Ireland's performance was what you'd expect. We lost to the 2 finalists, didn't do as well as Germany against Italy but not massively worse and we're a lot worse than Germany. Put Real Madrid or Barcelona on the park against Sunderland or Blackburn or Wolves (the level our best players are playing at) and I don't think 4-0 would be unlikely at all. Like I say, got the results you should expect from 2nd and 3rd tier players against top tier players.

Now, could you rationalise the NZ 60-0 against Ireland in the same way please ?? I could use some revisionism on that too. :sadface_rvmp_by_bad

[Old Dog]

A positive headline about Keane - less talk, more similar action in future, please Roy.

http://www.careerguidance.ie/news/2524-Keane-to-fund-elite-UCC-soccer-scholarship


"Soccer legend Roy Keane has put his money where his mouth is to help develop a new crop of homegrown soccer talent.

The former Ireland and Manchester United star, turned Premier League manager and pundit, has agreed to fund an elite soccer scholarship at University College Cork. "

[Evil Omer]

Now, could you rationalise the NZ 60-0 against Ireland in the same way please ?? I could use some revisionism on that too. :sadface_rvmp_by_bad

Sadly it's probably the same thing, we're simply not good enough against teams who are that good.